Poly versus Sluttiness

dakid said:
i hope i'm not labouring my point too much but to me their relationship with each other is polyamorous because they love each other dearly and are committed to supporting each others freedom to explore stuff with others, regardless of what form those explorations may take.

i am not looking to argue, but i am fascinated to discuss and to hear from others with different views. stretch my brain!
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I see what you are saying - the "original" relationship is still polyamorous even if some of the behaviour with others could be classified as "swinging" or "casual sex".

I definitely agree with that. Sorry I can't help stretch your brain any further! :p
 
I feel pretty much the same way you do about this, dakid. Someone mentioned earlier:
Poly is about building relationships, not just friendships with side benefits.
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and I find this amusing because "friendships with side benefits" IS a type of relationship! So while it may not "be" polyamory, someone try to explain to me exactly what is so "anti-poly" about it.
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Yeah, yeah. I knew someone was going to pull that out. It reminds me of the line from A Fish Called Wanda: "I'm sure she knows her own brother. After all, she's had a relationship with him all her life."

But I think it's fairly clear what I meant. If not, I'll clarify-- building romantic relationships.

And, yes, I do think one can be poly, and swing, and have casual relationships within the context of being poly. I consider myself poly, but if I have casual sex with a friend, that doesn't make me not poly. It doesn't, however, make the encounter I had with that friend part of being poly.

In the context of the OP who said that her boyfriend "flirted, made out with, and hooked up with lots of girls," I don't consider that forming a poly relationship. That's flirting, making out, and hooking up. She had a self-admitted drunken one-time sexual experience with someone, and her boyfriend claims that makes her poly. I disagree. That is not a poly relationship. It is a relationship of sorts, but it's not a poly one.

Everything I've read and understood about poly emphasizes loving, open, romantic relationships. A drunken one-night fuck is not a loving, romantic relationship, even if it is open.

Edited to say that this is the way I choose to practice a poly lifestyle, and how I choose to interpret poly as a whole. Obviously, no one is required to agree with me. :)

This I agree with:
YGirl said:
The "original" relationship is still polyamorous, even if some of the behaviour with others could be classified as "swinging" or "casual sex."
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Oh man, this makes things so much clearer to understand. I sure think it's odd that my bf has so much poly pride, and has read everything and preaches it to the girls he likes, yet comes to this conclusion. Although it's always possible I am interpreting situations in a different (not necessarily wrong) way. Thanks for the insights, guys. Y'all rock! :D
 
glowinthedarkstars said:
Oh man this makes things so much clearer to understand. I sure think its odd that my bf has so much poly pride and has read everything and preaches it to the girls he likes...yet comes to this conclusion...althought its always possible i am interprating situations in a different (not nessisarily wrong) way. Thanks for all the insight guys.

yall rock!:D
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I don't know your boyfriend, but I am about to "judge" him here. Some of you might want to close your eyes, cover your ears and chant "la-la-la-la-la" for a few seconds here: (highlight the blank space below to see the text)


I think your boyfriend is a piece of work who tells other girls what he thinks they want to hear so that they'll agree to sleep with him.



OK, you can all open your eyes and ears and stop "la-la-la-ing" now.
 
Aw yes, I suspected some judgement as far as that goes. I don't want anyone bashing him, but some judgement is nice because it helps me understand what is actually going on, or what could be going on, what to look out for, or talk to him about, etc., etc.
 
YGirl said:
I don't know your boyfriend, but I am about to "judge" him here. Some of you might want to close your eyes, cover your ears and chant "la-la-la-la-la" for a few seconds here: (highlight the blank space below to see the text)


OK, you can all open your eyes and ears and stop "la-la-la-ing" now.
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Judgement is not the evil word people make it out to be. It is a required function of establishing what is deemed acceptable and not acceptable within any community. Some behaviour is black, some is white, and much is grey. (Yes, I said grey.)

I think those who resist the word have already secretly judged themselves, found something they didn't like, and don't want others pointing it out to them.

I judge myself constantly, and fully expect others do, as well.
 
MonoVCPHG said:
Judgement is not the evil word people make it out to be. It is a required function of establishing what is deemed acceptable and not acceptable within any community. Some behaviour is black, some is white, and much is grey. (Yes...I said grey)

I think those who resist the word have already secretly judged themselves, found something they didn't like and don't want others pointing it out to them.

I judge myself constantly and fully expect others do as well.
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I notice that when people are told something they don't want to hear, it's called "judging". When they are told what they do want to hear, it's called "support" or "validation". All I do is say it like i see it. Of course I realize that I don't know everything about everyone's situation, have not "walked in your shoes" and "don't know what works for other people".

And I have said this before, but "judging" someone is not the same as violating their humanity or their civil rights. It's just saying, "Hey I think what you're doing is [this way]."
 
Agreed. Judgement can be a good thing. P and I are different. He feels like everyone is always judging him. He needs to make the best impression, and that everyone is always judging. However, being human, I do judge people, to an extent, but disagree completely. I don't think everyone judges everyone. I think everyone cares about themselves. I can't speak for everyone, but I think only those who are judgmental of others give the word/idea of judgement a bad connotation and fear being judged themselves.

I am all about the random commentary today. :p
 
P and I are different. He feels like everyone is always judging him. He needs to make the best impression, and that everyone is always judging.
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Do you think he could possibly feel this way because he knows (maybe even subconsciously) that the way he's behaving is not respectful of his partners (whether long-term ones, or otherwise)?

I dunno. It's just been my experience that people tend to fear being judged most when they know they're not living up to their own standards. (I know I've been guilty of this.)
 
Hey, I'm not a 20-something, I'm 54. I am poly and a slut. I have a poly SO. She's fine with me dating and looking for love, like, or lust with whoever I want.

That said, I screen my dates carefully. (I meet them on OK Cupid, and I chat with them for a couple weeks before meeting them.) I insist they are smart, cute, and respectful. I have had one or two dates with men who wanted fuckbuddies and I've shown them the door. I'd like to be able to have a nice post-sex chat afterwards, at least, even if we don't go out for dinner or activities together, you know?

I prefer to like a guy or woman a lot before I have sex them. I prefer to be infatuated, at least. I don't fuck guys I meet at bars, drunk. I go in clear headed.

OKC matches you well for interests. I find nice people there. I prefer bi people, with alternative lifestyles, artists or science geeks. Open-minded straight guys work out well, too.

So, my gf and I are poly, but I am also an ethical slut. I try to be safe. I try to communicate clearly to potential partners what I am after.
 
Magdlyn said:
I'm not a 20 something, I'm 54. I am poly and a slut. I have a poly SO. She's fine with me dating and looking for love, like, or lust with whoever I want.
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Cool. You do poly and you do open non-monogamy.

That said, I screen my dates carefully.
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And you do so carefully. Way cool.
 
dakid said:
Within that definition, being poly is about being free to explore all sorts of sexual and intimate interactions with other people, whether as a one-off, a series of one-offs, within a fuck-buddy arrangement, within loving relationships, whatever, the freedom being the thing; being open to other relationships, and to some extent framing our relationship around that openness to potential with others; not imposing limits or boundaries on each other's freedom to pursue other connections, wherever they may lead.
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This!
 
Interesting! I believe P is the same. I am mono at this point. He is poly, and an ethical slut in the same fashion, I think. Only he seems less sure of what he wants. We had a looonnng chat last night about all sorts of issues that were coming up (i.e., my drinking and depression, his unrealistic expectations of me and his judgmental mentality.) It was kind of scary, but it was a great talk. We both listened to each other and he told me he thought I was speaking very level-headed and that how I was expressing myself was very mature. It's silly, but that was wonderful to hear, because one of the challenges we have as a couple is that I get too emotional and he doesn't know how or want to deal with it. I'm glad we had some breakthroughs last night.

Anyhow, while that was a little off topic, would you say that poly+slut=both polyamourous and polysexual?
 
dakid said:
Within that definition, being poly is about being free to explore all sorts of sexual and intimate interractions with other people, whether as a one-off, series of one-offs, within a fuck-buddy arrangement, within loving relationships, whatever.
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What you just described is called non-monogamy, of which polyamory is but one form.

An open marriage/relationship is not necessarily polyamorous, nor does it necessarily involve swinging. Swinging does not necessarily involve having an open relationship, and doesn't involve polyamory (though it can lead to polyamory). Polyamory doesn't necessarily involve having an open relationship, nor does it necessarily involve swinging (although polyamorous folk can do open and/or swinging, too.)

Polyamory is not an umbrella term for all things non-monogamous. It is a term to describe a specific type of non-monogamy. To claim otherwise makes the term useless and we'd have to find a different term to use so that we could actually know what it is we're discussing.
 
Polyamory is not an umbrella term for all things non-monogamous. It is a term to describe a specific type of non-monogamy. To claim otherwise makes the term useless, and we'd have to find a different term to use so that we can actually know what it is we're discussing.
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Yes, yes, yes. Exactly.
 
I'm with dakid and Y-Girl on this.

This very topic has come up with me lately, in trying to describe my relationship with Violet to people.

We both allow the other to date and/or have relationships outside or inside our relationship. BUT we do NOT consider ourselves to have an open relationship.

We both encourage the other to pursue sexual exploration outside of our relationship. BUT we do NOT consider ourselves swingers.

We are a very happy, very committed couple comprised of two people who both owned the term "slut" a looong time ago, and could not care less what the rest of the world decides its implications are. We both see the value in a committed monogamous-style relationship, and we both acknowledge that in the long term, it hasn't worked out all that well for either of us in the past. I don't mind her dating women, and can wrap my head around her seeing other guys; she knows that seeing guys isn't on my list, but she actively encourages me to see other girls, and frankly, pushes me toward sexual encounters of any kind with them, casual or not.

And all of that has always ended up bringing us closer. Even the disaster with Anne ended up with a stronger HMA and Violet.

So I'll say again, I'm with Dakid and Y-Girl on this. "Fucking around" may or may not count as polyamory, depending on the mindset of the person doing it and the relationship(s) they have and/or are forming. In our case, a one-night stand can be and is VERY polyamorous, because it has positive emotional implications for us as a couple, regardless of the what went on with the third party. If it becomes more than "just a fuck," then the polyamory extends to the 3rd party, I guess. lol THEY are now engaged in a polyamory-style relation, at some level, to be determined in time.

Such is how the world revolves, according to my perspective. :)
 
HappiestManAlive said:
"Fucking around" may or may not count as polyamory, depending on the mindset of the person doing it and the relationship(s) they have and/or re forming. In our case, a one-night stand can be and is VERY polyamorous, because it has positive emotional implications for us as a couple, regardless of the what went on with the 3rd party. If it becomes more than "just a fuck", then the "poly-ness" extends to the third party, I guess. lol THEY are now engaged in a polyamorous relation, on some level, to be determined in time.
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It still comes down to what you're doing, and describing that accurately. A polyamorous relationship is not necessarily open, nor does it necessarily involve swinging. So, to say that being open is polyamory is inaccurate. That's not the case. Being open to casual sexual encounters is being open. It's not polyamory or swinging.

So, based on what you've described, you do polyamory and you do open. Why you do what you do doesn't really matter, because the terms describe what it is you do. The motivation is not the action.

If you tell me you're polyamorous, I'm not going to assume that you're open for casual sex or swinging. If you tell me you have an open relationship, I'm not going to assume you're polyamorous or that you swing. If you tell me you swing, I'm not going to assume it's an open relationship or that you're polyamorous. You tell me you're polyamorous, and I assume that you engage in more than one romantic relationship at a time, and that's it.

That's the beauty of using terms correctly. It describes what's going on, including some things and excluding others. If you also do other things, then you simply state that you also do those things, using the correct terms. None of that speaks to motivations, nor does it involve any sort of judgement.
 
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