Hoping I find something to hope for again...Super huge vent!

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Ilove2men

New member
Okay, brace yourselves, because I am mainly a lurker and this has building for months, so it will be a long one.

It all started probably around the time of my icky can of worms. My fiance (C) and I had that initial one connection and then things took a terrible turn. He started becoming very vulgar with me. Every waking moment talk was of sex in a very demeaning way. It was a sensitive subject at the time and I needed his love and I needed to be treated tenderly. I got neither. I was made to feel guilty for not putting out, as a result.

When things with my boyfriend (K) became strained and I was scared that he would leave me, I sought comfort from C. He proceeded to be uncompassionate and talk about how much he "wanted" me. This is where our breakdown began and it spread though every single aspect of our relationship. My feelings were of little importance. He started "faking" improving our relationship. His words lacked integrity. He made so many promises about the improvements he was making, when all he was doing was closing himself off to me, keeping things a secret.

I would list all of the problems, but that would take even longer, and it's really not about the problems, it's about the fact that I can't trust him. It's about looking back on our almost 8 years together and seeing a huge pattern that I apparently had turned a blind eye to. He breaks my trust and then he says all of these beautiful words and then does the exact same thing again. His apologies... I can recite them word for word. And his lying is making him a very angry person. He has even stooped to mimicking me in the shower when I'm laying in bed on the other side of the wall.

Things with my boyfriend are amazing. I have never felt this level of intimacy and trust. He is my best friend. I can tell him anything and know that it will not be used against me. He will not manipulate the love I have or the trust I have in him, and he most definitely won't keep it in his back pocket to throw in my face when he does something sneaky. It's an odd thing to be going through the best of times and the worst of times... at the same time.

The thing is, everything came to a head with C a few weeks ago. My boyfriend and I made a united front that there will be no more shady business, no more lying and definitely no more "faking it." We all got on the same page. Everything came out, everything was discussed. It left us all emotional wrecks and completely drained, but it had to be done. Everyone needed a voice in this.

Once we got everything out, the next step was improvement, right? Every day I was told, "Tomorrow will be different." And it took quite some time to get to that different day, last Tuesday, to be exact. It's been a very slow process. I'm so very leery of trusting him. I relate it to the abused dog and the abusive owner with a doggy treat. But I've been working on myself and taking each day as it comes.

I went out of town this weekend to see my boyfriend. We grew even closer than I ever thought possible. Just a perfect weekend. While I was gone I left my fiance with some emergency money (one of my issues is that I am no longer able to trust him with our funds) to be used ONLY for an emergency. This was a big leap in trust for me. It was a symbol of my restored faith in him. I get back yesterday from my date and my fiance and I have a very nice day together. It was effortless, truly a great day.

Tonight I asked for the money back. He had apparently dipped into it, which made me fly off the handle. There was no emergency, but if he would have just called or sent me a text (we texted quite often the day I was gone) saying what and why, it wouldn't have been a big deal. So he proceeds to tell me tonight that he figured I wouldn't care, since I got a ticket (first one in my life). I pointed out the fact that I called him and told him the moment it happened and I didn't have an agreement on no traffic violations so 1) the two have no connection and 2) two wrongs don't make a right. And then I had to point out the fact that it's not about money.

What it is about is I feel I cannot depend on him. I feel I cannot trust him. I was on the verge of leaving from all that he has done. It's fucking hard for me to take a step back and stay. Love is so not enough.

I am trying to keep my dignity and self worth, and not kick myself in the ass for continuing to hope.

So tonight he is saying never again... again. He's a two steps forward, one step back kind of guy. Always has been, always will be. WHY CAN'T HE JUST BE HONEST ABOUT IT??? I'm tired of empty promises. I have no more blind faith. When the hell is enough going to finally be enough for me? Because here I am again. And I'm about to go and find him and listen to what I've already heard... I need ACTION. I need this dishonesty to stop. (Which I have said and yet it continues) I feel like I'm hanging on by three threads, I love him, my daughter loves him, and I feel like I HAVE to take care of him, like he is my second child. I feel our relationship is doomed if he can't figure out how to gain some integrity.

I have this other amazing relationship with a man that his doing his damnedest, in any way possible, to help salvage my other relationship, and my fiance is letting us both down. I'm more heartbroken than ever, because it comes so effortlessly with my boyfriend (the trust and openness) and I feel like I'm grasping at air trying to find one single thing to hold hope in achieving such a thing with my fiance once again.

Also, it has nothing to do with poly or his ability to handle it. He is actually very encouraging of my other relationship and knows that he is a very good man for me. This is strictly in his relationship with me. Sigh, I feel so selfish posting all of this.
 
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I am just going to throw this possibility out there. Please don't take offense. It is merely an idea based on my own actions in the past. When I had lost my connection with my ex-wife, I encouraged her to achieve everything she could in her career. It took our time away. I valued the relationship she had with her career more than the one we had. It's not because she was growing distant, it was because I was, and I wanted her to have something to replace me, to take care of her needs. I thought her needs were more professional than the ones she had for "us." I was basically setting her up for my departure, to give myself a way out, because I wasn't brave enough to tell her I had lost something for her.

Is it possible that your fiancé is encouraging your other relationship so that you have something to take his place? Is it possible that he doesn't feel this relationship is for him, but wants you looked after in some way, because he does care about your well-being?

My actions became more and more harmful, as I couldn't get the result I wanted in my relationship with my ex-wife. Finally I pushed hard enough, which hurt a lot of people. Is his own behavior increasing? Is he telling you something he is not strong enough to admit?
 
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If that's what he wants, he can just go. There's no reason for the theatrics or to lie and say that he wants to save our relationship more than anything in the world. I could ask him if that's what it is, but would he tell me the truth? Would I believe it if it was?
 
Ilove2men said:
If that's what he wants, he can just go. There's no reason for the theatrics, or to lie and say that he wants to save our relationship more than anything in the world. I could ask him if that's what it is, but would he tell me the truth? Would I believe it if it was?
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This is just a thought, remember. I am not in his head, but I am in mine. I brought this up to be explored, so please don't stop considering other options. This type of passive termination of relationships is something I am very cautious about because of my history. I still watch out for this in my relationship with Redpepper. But it is just a thought.

Will he tell the truth? I probably would not have in my marriage, but I may have expressed my concerns, and the relationship may have been given another chance, before I destroyed my family.
 
MonoVCPHG said:
I can almost feel the virtual punch in my nose. Luckily that's not a completely foreign sensation.
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Lol, not at all, Mono. The short answer is because that first post took everything out of me for the night. Any and all outside perspectives are welcome. All the idea can lead to is a conversation, and in my eyes, any conversation is a good conversation, even if the answer isn't something you want to hear.
 
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Ilove2men said:
Lol, not at all, Mono. Any and all outside perspectives are welcome. All the idea can lead to is a conversation, and in my eyes, any conversation is a good conversation, even if the answer isn't something you want to hear.
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Fair enough. Stay healthy and stay true to yourself... all of you. :) Hope it goes well, my friend.
 
MonoVCPHG said:
Fair enough. Stay healthy and stay true to yourself... all of you. :) Hope it goes well, my friend.
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Bumping to let you know I did a last minute edit. I appreciate having a someone there when I just needed to scream out my frustrations. I feel better now. I'm just going to take tonight to gather my thoughts and speak about it tomorrow.
 
Sigh... I realize after some reflecting and discussion that I had what we call "a moment " tonight. What happened tonight is small, and my boyfriend pointed out that I should dig deep to find out why I had such a big reaction to it. I've come to realize that I am adding indiscretions to my fiance's pile. I've been harboring a lot of things and tonight was the straw that broke this camel's emotional back.

I think it has to do with ego, as well. "Normally" when things get bad and there seems to be no improvement, people leave the relationship, but I feel like I don't love myself enough to leave, or I'm just a weak person, and that's where the whole losing my dignity thing came from.

I also think that I have not given myself a chance to just take a deep breath and have a break from the unveiling of all lies and the emotions that came because of those lies. I've been holding my breath waiting for a reason not to trust him and he handed it to me tonight and ran with it.

I also realize that I put a lot of symbolism on "the little things" and I'm not communicating this as I should be.

In short, my boyfriend says he understands that what happened today, in regards to how it was dealt, with was a big deal, but that what actually happened was a slap on the wrist offence in light of how well things have been going. And I agree. The words that were exchanged tonight are what caused damage, not what the words were about. I also spoke with my fiance and he had valid, not sugarcoated, points. It was wrong. He should have told me he was going to spend money that was reserved for an emergency beforehand and he shouldn't have tried to make excuses about it tonight.

I also voiced a lot of needs and vulnerabilities I feel at the moment in our relationship. I also spoke of where I want this relationship to go. And I recognize that I need a break so I can see problems that arise individually. It has taken months for us to become this broken. I cannot expect a sudden perfect relationship. What I can do though is say I need a break. I need a bubble of time to calm down a find some footing so I can actually voice my issues within our relationship without it sending me over the edge like it did tonight.

So that's where we are after tonight. Everyone sees how drained I am, and I need some time to recharge my batteries so I can actually be in this relationship, instead of just waiting for him to screw up. Once I am more level we will proceed with working on issues. For the time being, hopefully, my fiance will continue to work on things he already knows need fixing, and not add any more to the list... hopefully.
 
I guess I have two questions:

1. Why are you still with this guy? (I don't mean this as in, "Why haven't you left yet?" but as in, "What are you actually gaining by being with him?")

2. Is this really the kind of relationship you want to model for your daughter? Do you want your daughter to grow up thinking that this kind of relationship is normal and what she should be going for?
 
Ceoli said:
I guess I have two questions.

1. Why are you still with this guy? (I don't mean this as in, "Why haven't you left yet?" but as in, "What are you actually gaining by being with him?")

2. Is this really the kind of relationship you want to model for your daughter? Do you want your daughter to grow up thinking that this kind of relationship is normal and what she should be going for?
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Answer 1) I don't think I am gaining anything at the moment. But I am trying to get to a place where I can gain back my companion, my friend, my family member, the glow I used to have every time I looked at him and said, "Yep, this is who I'm spending my life with." I had a revelation last night. I am in no state to accept that he can be that person again. I have literally been waiting for the smallest mess up to say, "AHA!!! You didn't change! I knew it!" because I'm scared to trust again. I'm not in that place, and I have no control over his actions. All I can do is get myself to a place one last time where I can accept any positive changes that happen wholeheartedly and give this relationship one last try. I'm not a quitter. It's so freaking hard to throw in the towel on anything. So I have to try, but I have to get myself to a place where I can try. I woke up drained this morning. It's how I've woken up most days for the past several months, with the ups and downs of working on building the dynamics of our poly relationship, then the ups and downs of a family in shambles. I need time to recover before I can truly "be in this" again.

Answer 2) I absolutely do not want our daughter thinking this is okay, his behavior or my behavior. She has witnessed his dishonesty towards me. It was something that he brought up last night. He blames himself for a lie she told me Sunday night; she is learning this from him, it's not okay and it's something that he must fix. What she has been learning from me is, it's okay to be treated this way and that mothers and wives don't deserve respect. That is absolutely not okay, and this is something I must fix and I am doing so. But a big lesson she has learned (something I didn't want her to learn at such a young age) is that we are a family and families have troubles, sometimes BIG troubles. I want her to learn the second half of that important lesson...

Gosh, I'm crying typing this.

I want her to learn that family sticks it out and doesn't give up on each other. That they apologize and forgive and rebuild. I never got the second half of that lesson growing up. I want that for her. I want her to have the family that her father and I set out to make a long time ago.... I want that family and I know, deep down, so does he. We are just at a place where there has to be a time out. I want time with my daughter where I am not worrying about my relationship with her father and that's what I am focused on right now. Once I recharge my batteries, I will try one last time, and if it doesn't work out, then we will have to start planning a new family that can function properly for her.
 
The first step is awareness.

It sounds like you won't be fooled, which is a good thing. Abuse comes in many forms and this is certainly one of them. I am sure you know this, but you'll have to draw the line somewhere. I was married to a mentally abusive man who quickly turned into a physically abusive one as soon as he noticed I was growing a pair.

I should have left way sooner. I spouted all of what you are saying now. Yes, people change, but sometimes we have to realize that we cannot wait for it to happen.

I guess I am just writing to say I wish you strength. Know that you are not alone, and that if you leave this is not a failure.

RS
 
People don't change if they don't have to.

What's his motivation to change if you keep enabling him?

You're sending him the message, "It's okay to lie to me because I'll forgive you."

You're sending your daughter the message, "Women should stay with people who lie and hurt them."

If she ends up with a husband who beats her, do you really want her prevalent lesson of families to be this?

Ilove2men said:
family sticks it out and doesn't give up on each other, they apologize and forgive and rebuild.
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How many times would you watch her come over with a black eye before questioning this lesson? How many times would you take your grandkids to the hospital with bones that her husband broke before wishing you had taught her to put herself and her children first?
 
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redsirenn said:
Well, the first step is awareness.

Sounds like you won't be fooled, which is a good thing. Abuse comes in many forms. This is certainly one of them. I am sure you know this, but you'll have to draw the line somewhere. I was married to a mentally abusive man who quickly turned into a physically abusive one as soon as he noticed I was growing a pair.

I should have left way sooner. I spouted all of what you are saying now. Yes, people change, but sometimes we have to realize that we cannot wait for it to happen.

I guess I am just writing to say, that I wish you strength. Know that you are not alone, and that if you leave this is not a failure.
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Thank you. That's all I needed, an ear to listen to my fears that this was a sign that he indeed had not changed. The fact is he didn't repeat the same apology last night that he always does. There was a lot of pouring out of his soul and apparently there is more. There is a letter at home waiting for me. So I will update either tonight or tomorrow more about where we are at.
 
SchrodingersCat said:
People don't change if they don't have to.

What's his motivation to change if you keep enabling him?

You're sending him the message, "It's okay to lie to me, because I'll forgive you."

You're sending your daughter the message, "Women should stay with people who lie and hurt them."

How many times would you watch her come over with a black eye before questioning this lesson? How many times would you take your grandkids to the hospital with bones that her husband broke before wishing you had taught her to put herself and her children first?
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I answered about my daughter in my response to Ceoli. This is my last attempt, and I'm not even attempting yet. I am taking the time I need for myself before I even think of it. And she will be retaught. I was clear that I am aware of what I am teaching her. I'm not making one single excuse of, "Oh, we don't fuss in front of her." I know what I heard as a child from behind closed doors (yelling not physical) and I know that I resented my mother not my father. I know this is one of the reasons I stayed with an abusive husband for as long as I did-- because it was "normal" to me. But I also know my mother didn't change, and she didn't stand up for herself. She didn't sit me down and tell me that this is not the way things are supposed to be. I have been having very deep talks with my daughter, where she has expressed much resentment. I made a promise to her last Tuesday that changes for the better are happening, and we don't know what those changes are just yet, but they are coming, because THIS IS NOT OKAY.

He is no longer enabled by me. I did enable him and make excuses for him. I blamed it on my coming out as poly. And then I stopped being stupid. I gave him a choice to stay and love me for me, or to leave. Not an ultimatum. A "Take me as I am." I didn't say "Stay and treat me as less than." I grew my pair. He has more than just me to be accountable to. He is not forgiven. I am going to try to hear him out, but as I said before, there is absolutely no more blind faith.
 
So I jumped into a hot bath and read my letter, cried, then read it again. It was a letter about our past, a very bad time in our life, told through his eyes. Something I have never heard before. With one letter (6 pages long) a grudge was released. A little less on my pile. My questions of why about that time were answered and a weight was lifted off me. No, this doesn't make it all better, but it's more than I actually expected. It's a step.

There will be more letters to come. Eight years worth, I think. The good, the bad, the ugly. Everything is to be revealed. He is dropping all guards to open himself fully. Sigh, this is what I have been asking for for months. I honestly didn't think he would.

I'd also like to say we had a great family moment tonight. Our daughter (5 years old) read 10 sentences to us effortlessly. I gushed with pride and joy and scooped her up into my arms.

Are things perfect? Absolutely not. But today... today was a good day.

Also, he read the thread and says we are on the same page. This is our last attempt. None of us deserve the way things have been, especially our baby girl.
 
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I'm reading this thread with great interest. So far, from your descriptions, this guy you're with has my respect, but not the slightest bit of my trust. He seems to know how to get exactly what he wants from you when he wants it. He doesn't seem to know how to give you exactly what you need when you need it, or if he does, he only gives it to you as he sees fit...

Does this sound right? (I hope I'm wrong.)
 
classycaveman said:
I'm reading this thread with great interest. So far, from your descriptions, this guy you're with has my respect, but not the slightest bit of my trust. He seems to know how to get exactly what he wants from you when he wants it. He doesn't seem to know how to give you exactly what you need when you need it, or if he does, he only gives it to you as he sees fit...

Does this sound right? (I hope I'm wrong.)
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Unfortunately, that's exactly right, and something he admitted to in the second letter he gave me tonight. He has been "faking it," as we have identified it. Making it seem as though he's met my needs (respect, comfort, support), when he really has not. And yes, for the past several months I've felt like he's been acting this way because something was going on with him (I'd blamed it on me being poly) and so I focused on what I could do to improve our relationship. I thought I was doing the right thing, accepting that I have no control over him and that with time he would see that I'm completely dedicated to making it work and he would join me.

He didn't, until I voiced that I was spent and couldn't accept this anymore. I let him get away with it for too long. I should have stood up for myself as soon as I saw what was going on. I am truly hurt. I feel betrayed. I feel like my love for him was used against me. I feel like my heart was mishandled and I don't trust him with it.

It will be a long time before I feel safe enough to trust him again. It will take a lot of action on his part. I need to see things happening.

He says he's working on it. The first step for him is pouring out everything. Dropping all facades. Getting real about what's been going on and being honest about any and all manipulation. Because I need to see that he knows what he's been doing. I need him to admit that he's been bending me to his will. He did tonight, and I didn't ask for it, which is a real BIG deal for me.

I can honestly say that while I don't trust him, there's something in my bones, and there's something in my boyfriend's bones, telling us that my fiance is heartfelt, that this is not his usual bag of tricks. We shall see if it sticks.
 
Ilove2men said:
Also, he read the thread and says we are on the same page. This is our last attempt. None of us deserve the way things have been especially our baby girl.
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Have you considered seeing a counselor or a therapist together? It sounds like you're both committed to working on this, but may not have all the resources you need to make it work. A counselor might be able to help with that. Just a thought...
 
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