Unicorns & Unicorn Hunters - Merged Threads, General Discussion

[LovingRadiance]

This would be the reason that my wife and her (and my) lover don't read in this forum. I filter HEAVILY to pass on stories that are interesting.

Ditto. My guys don't care about which type of relationship, it's just the general causticness of the conversations and the pulling apart of definitions.
They were both on the board and both found themselves more annoyed and frustrated than helped. So now they avoid it like the plague.

 

[london]

Whether it is useful to you or not isn't the issue, it is whether the definition used within the polyamory community is a positive or negative one.

You realise that anyone could write a definition on there, right?

 

[ImaginaryIllusion]

You realise that anyone could write a definition on there, right?

Absolutely I would include this as to one of the many reasons that Urban Dictionary should in no way be considered an authoritative source of jack or shit. As an aside, if you want a laugh, look up "chicken scarf".

In the case of the Unicorn definition, the one presented from UD earlier is authored by one of those bloggers with an axe to grind, an agenda to have their own narrow definition of "how to poly" be the *only* poly. Hence why the definition is overloaded as I've described, and also why I will summarily reject its use at any and every opportunity.

And while playing the popularity game with thumbs seems to be a popular social media pastime, again, it does not serve to validate anything. If that was the case, we could look at any newspaper article on poly, and checking the thumbs down balance of any poly positive comment, and safely conclude that poly is inherently wrong/invalid/unhealthy/etc.

What can be gleaned from the thumbs scale, is that a 60%/40% split represents a large margin by which it can be concluded that the definition presented is far from universally, or even generally accepted.

unicorn is not a poly term. Its an alternate lifestyle term. I knew what it meant long before coming into poly. Just because some of us want to redefine a meaning doesn't make it true. Calling a donkey a horse because urban dictionary might tell me, doesn't make it so.

Exactly....and while this may be a poly board, there are enough incoming and crossover from the other alternate lifestyle communities that it will not aid communication to change and redefine commonly used terms between them.

But this forum abuses people who don't fit this forums poly-ideals which is dictated by the active members. The abuser is sometimes blind to the abuse they dish out, but that doesn't make it less true.

And this is the kind of thing that really needs to stop. Abuse is not acceptable, nor is driving people away. Attempting to "save the unicorns" by chasing hunters away from the board is no in line with the guidelines or spirit on which this Forum was founded.
It is also inherently counterproductive to the purpose of helping anyone, since if people leave, they cannot learn from the hard earned and sometimes painful experiences of those who have already blazed the trails before them. If they don't learn...then they will carry on doing what they were going to do anyways...with probably the expected results, and the tears and heartache that comes with.

 

[Magdlyn]

Once again, there is confusion about natural triads, like Pulliman's, and the idea of Unicorn Hunting, examples of which are all over our dating forum.

I do not see what is "abusive" about telling people, who come here asking how to find a Unicorn, that they probably won't, since they are so rare as to be nearly non-existent, but, good luck with that.

I do not see what is "abusive" about telling people, should they find a woman who wants to date both of them, how to partner with her ethically. Seriously, you guys. You think we are too narrowly defining the Unicorn term as it is accepted in the poly community (not the swinger community, not the BDSM community), and yet you're going to call it abusive and dictatorial to point out the common issues couples searching to "add a third" to their relationship come across?

I do want to thank NYCindie for posting those links to older threads. I started reading them to further understand this popular poly phenomenon. I am curious why any woman would seek out couples to date, as it seems so loaded with landmines to get all up in the middle of a long-term committed couple. So, "What's in it for a Unicorn?" was enlightening.

 

[Natja]

I am curious why any woman would seek out couples to date, as it seems so loaded with landmines to get all up in the middle of a long term committed couple. So, "What's in it for a Unicorn?" was enlightening.

Honestly? I think it is because most of them don't know what they are getting into. I have not know of any repeat single "Unicorns" (please, if you are out there, come out of the woodwork) ... I have though heard of some married women who have been interested in couples but find often enough that most couples are not interested in her, despite being attractive and keen women, the fact that she cannot possibly be exclusive to them because she is married immediately makes her unacceptable

 

[IndieSolo]

The phrase "hunting for unicorns," or similar versions, is as old as the hills and has always been used in common parlance and literature to mean chasing after something we want that is mythical, imaginary, or unrealistic, and will be pretty much impossible to find. It is very similar to the phrase "tilting at windmills," which means fighting imaginary enemies. I am always surprised to find that this fact is not common knowledge.

It is NOT an "alternative lifestyle term." Come on, people. Just because it is often used in alternative circles does not mean that the phrase originated there. For example, in a biography of the poet William Carlos Williams, written in 1981, there is a chapter called "Hunting Down the Unicorn." That chapter is about Williams' efforts to complete a novel and the problems he had getting it published.

If you do a search of Google Books, you will find numerous passages in classical literature that refer somehow to chasing after or hunting unicorns. More examples: people looking to buy their dream home could say, "We're looking for our unicorn." Someone hoping to win the lottery could say "I'm looking for my unicorn" when they buy their ticket. I know I have posted about this before.

Now in poly circles, the phrase has come to be used most often to point out to partnered male-female couples how ridiculously unrealistic their fantasies are about finding a bisexual girlfriend to equally love them both. It is a response to pie-in-the-sky expectations-- that is all! The phrase is not meant to say that triads, in and of themselves, are impossible. Nor does it mean that bisexual women who are into couples do not exist. No, it simply means that some people, most often new-to-poly couples, have expectations that are so unrealistic to the point that they can never be more than a fantasy.

"See here, newbie couple, you are chasing a unicorn if you think you can get everything on your wish list." It is NOT about triads, per se. It does not mean that a bisexial woman into couples is automatically a unicorn. Furthermore, it is nonsensical for a woman to call herself a unicorn because that would mean she is a myth and not real.

Effectively, I (a straight woman) could say I am chasing a unicorn for wanting four boyfriends. It is a term that can be applied to many situations. So, let's just remember this, shall we? Calling people unicorn hunters simply means they are hoping for and pursuing an ideal which is a highly unrealistic fantasy. That is all.

/English lesson

P.S. And yes, UrbanDictionary is just like Wikipedia, which means it is user-contributed, so, not a reliable source. And I say this as someone who regularly volunteers to edit articles at Wikipedia.

 

[Magdlyn]

If I am being accused of promoting the idea there is only one right way to do polyamory, I completely reject that characterization. I hold that there are as many ways to do poly as there are people. Since it's such a new movement, I do not even know for sure what is the most common way to do it. Vs? Triads? Quads (wife swapping or bisexual activity)? Open? Closed? Who knows? I'd say, since I've been on the board a few years, I have read more about Vs than anything else, and also more open than closed relationships. But that is just who posts here. Yes, there are many polyamorists out there who don't have major problems, and if they do, they don't think to come to a message board to ask for advice.

Triads are perfectly valid. Heck, I am in a V that is just a skosh away from being a triad myself. But it happened naturally. My metamours just happen to get along very well. There is even a tingle of sexuality between them. My bf would be perfectly happy to be closer to Pixi, but I get the idea she wants to be independent from our dyad. She has a thing about being expected to perform sexually, just because he happens to be here and in the mood. But sometimes, between Pixi and me, we do call Ginger "our husband," despite him being legally married to someone else.


Pixi has BEEN a Unicorn in the past. She does like being the secondary to a committed couple. She's done it three times. She's even been sort of in that situation since I've met her. It wasn't particularly successful, as the other woman was pretty damn jealous of her. Likewise, years ago, when she was a slave to two men, the Dom in that couple had two subs, his male partner and her. His male sub used to cry a lot when his Dom did kink/sex with Pixi. Also, she once was close with a couple, another Dom and his slave/wife, and they sort of auditioned her for the role as their sexual and domestic slave, and then dumped her rather unceremoniously when the sub was jealous. Pixi was heartbroken.

That is not to say attempted triads are the only polyamorous configuration that have pitfalls and issues. I am not on a white horse looking to quash all triads. Anyone who looks at my posting history will see I advise people in all sorts of polyamorous configurations.

Anyway! I am glad Ari is happy in his quad, and that his hunt was successful. Different strokes for different folks, and sometimes someone does win the lottery.

 

[Ariakas]

The phrase "hunting for unicorns," or similar versions, is as old as the hills and has always been used in common parlance and literature to mean chasing after something we want that is mythical, imaginary, or unrealistic, and will be pretty much impossible to find. It is very similar to the phrase "tilting at windmills," which means fighting imaginary enemies. I am always surprised to find that this fact is not common knowledge.

It is NOT an "alternative lifestyle term." Come on, people. Just because it is often used in alternative circles does not mean that the phrase originated there. For example, in a biography of the poet William Carlos Williams, written in 1981, there is a chapter called "Hunting Down the Unicorn." That chapter is about Williams' efforts to complete a novel and the problems he had getting it published.

If you do a search of Google Books, you will find numerous passages in classical literature that refer somehow to chasing after or hunting unicorns. More examples: people looking to buy their dream home could say, "We're looking for our unicorn." Someone hoping to win the lottery could say "I'm looking for my unicorn" when they buy their ticket. I know I have posted about this before.

Now in poly circles, the phrase has come to be used most often to point out to partnered male-female couples how ridiculously unrealistic their fantasies are about finding a bisexual girlfriend to equally love them both. It is a response to pie-in-the-sky expectations - that is all! The phrase is not meant to say that triads, in and of themselves, are impossible. Nor does it mean that bisexual women who are into couples do not exist. No, it simply means that someone, most often a new-to-poly couple, has expectations that are so unrealistic to the point that they can never be more than a fantasy. "See here, newbie couple, you are chasing a unicorn if you think you can get everything on your wish list." It is NOT about triads, per se. It does not mean that a bi woman into couples is automatically a unicorn. Furthermore it is nonsensical for a woman to call herself a unicorn because that would mean she is a myth and not real.

Effectively, I (a straight woman) could say I am chasing a unicorn for wanting four boyfriends. It is a term that can be applied to many situations. So, let's just remember this, shall we? Calling people unicorn hunters simply means they are hoping for and pursuing an ideal which is a highly unrealistic fantasy. That is all.

/English lesson

P.S. And yes, UrbanDictionary is just like Wikipedia, which means it is user-contributed, so, not a reliable source. And I say this as someone who regularly volunteers to edit articles at Wikipedia.

Well, duh. Of course it had its place before it was used in the context of relationships. I had assumed we were discussing its many origins in the context of relationships, not the history of the word. It would be interesting to see if it had been used for relationship descriptions previously. But dating a lottery ticket isn't exactly scandalous. Well, I guess it would be... so, never mind.

Funny, I said a number of years ago that identifying the female third of a triad as a unicorn never made sense. Bi boys have always been the harder find. We spent some time trying to comically identify the male third role in a triad. I wonder what we laughingly decided on.

Natja, I think if you search the forum, a few unicorn-named members were self-identified single unicorns at the time. (They may not be now.) One advocated here for a while. I currently know a unicorn who isn't online who actively finds couples to date. (She actually wanted to date my quad, which none of us were interested in.) If anything, what always happens is the couple wants to turn her into an equal primary, which she isn't interested in, so she walks away.

Actually, Mags, I was a unicorn hunter. I wanted that triad. However, my opinions evolved. I found enough unicorns for sex, I suppose, but they never wanted to get involved in relationships, since they knew they wanted to fuck couples, but really wanted to be married and have kids, and a triad didn't offer them that. So I changed my poly perspective several times. We just happened to fall into quad configurations the past 2 relationships while attempting to date separately. This current quad she dated on her own as the married unicorn (whatever you want to call that) haha

But thanks for the congrats almost 3 years. 2 kids are already here, 2 kids are on the way, and one big happy and socially-accepted family. Thank god for the big house. haha

 

[northhome]

If I am being accused of promoting the idea there is only one right way to do poly, I completely reject that characterization.

I don't believe that is the case. What may be the issue however is that you, and a few other posters, seem to have created a crusade against 'Unicorn Hunters'. This may not have been what you wanted to convey, and it may well be that your enthusiasm for dispensing your wisdom (based on hard-won experience) is based on a genuine willingness to assist.

Most people, however, find it unpleasant to be labelled (especially if the label is negative) and attacked, or at the very least judged. The reality is that a great number of people are learning about polyamory through an initial interest in forming a triad with a third person (often a woman).

Their learning curve is often steep, but if they then choose to come this forum, should they not be received politely? Sure, their quest may seem unreasonable and doomed to you, but is there not a chance that they too may grow into more well-rounded understanding of the issues and pitfalls involved in opening a relationship if they are met with an open mind and heart?

I'm guessing you may not understand how some of your harsh pronouncements could be received. Some of them do sound a bit abusive. I fear. I'm guessing that is not your intention.

 

[Natja]

I think if you search the forum, a few unicorn-named members were self-identified single unicorns at the time. (They may not be now.)

I will do that, thank you.

If anything, what always happens...

Always? How is that any less of a generalisation than what I have been saying?

 

[kkxvlv]

I see two problems here. One of them is it seems some of these people are less naive about poly then they are about the internet. If you go online and put your personal situation out there people are going to give their opinion. That's how it works. You're going to get opinions. If there is anything to be gained from that process, it is only possible if you're willing to think about those opinions. If you're going to become defensive when you don't like the response you get, don't bother putting your business on the internet; you're not going to gain anything but a fight. Just go tell someone you know to give you a hug.

The second is the need to be right about the terms. Maybe it would help if we all quit using short-hand descriptive terms we can't agree on and instead used whatever long-drawn-out definition you believe in.

For example, the self-titled natural unicorn who posted that she was unhappy with how the couple she was seeing broke up with her because she asked for alone time. She received the response that she wasn't actually a unicorn and spent the rest of the thread being defensive about her use of the term, rather than hearing that the problem with their relationship was that the couple was looking for her to be something she wasn't. So here she is fighting about the accuracy of her calling herself a unicorn, but she wasn't the kind of unicorn the couple wanted. The thing they wanted probably doesn't exist!

Would she have reacted differently if SchrodingersCat hadn't said:

"Unicorn" doesn't simply mean someone who dates couples. It means...

and instead said (paraphrasing the post):

We hear about a lot of couples who are looking for someone who doesn't have their own personhood and exists only to fill a role in a relationship -- not as a human being with thoughts and feelings, but as a placeholder. It sounds like your couple was expecting you to be that, and broke up with you when they were faced with the reality that you weren't that.

They expected you to enjoy being tossed around, and having your emotions played with, and the on-again-off-again. They didn't expect you have grown closer to one of the couple, because they wanted someone to always love both people equally. They hoped you would wait at their beck and call whenever they had couple-issues to work out, and then you would rush back when they showed the slightest interest in allowing you. And they didn't expect you to want to have alone time with either of the partners, because they were concerned more with someone for sex and intimacy in threesomes.

Cut them loose. They're not ready for this. They practice avoidance rather than confronting their problems. A break from a relationship can be useful to see if you really want to be together, not as a constant coping mechanism to avoid dealing with problems when they get to be overwhelming.

She agreed, she did not want to fit THAT role, and so if there hadn't been an argument about the word "unicorn," she might have heard the actual advice.

Whose fault is that? I don't know. I personally don't expect strangers on the internet to not only take the time to read about my problems and respond, but also know what might offend me well enough to word a response that might avoid that. If I go asking for opinions, I take the responsibility to try to find something useful from what I get.

Like Willowstar mentioned, my boyfriend and I also had fantasies that led to thoughts of unicorn hunting. We didn't know what that was, but any time we discussed it, it was fairly obvious we were unlikely to find someone who would go for it, and we left it as fantasy. When my boyfriend seriously started discussing dating other women (in this case, separately), the opinions ("abuse"?) I've since read here have actually been really helpful to me in discovering my own opinions and how I want to behave during any additional relationships.

For example, one night he asked me if I would want veto power. I immediately thought, "Oh god no! I could never be in a relationship where I thought someone besides my direct partner might be calling the shots for our relationship." I know I would not have reacted that way if I hadn't read everything I've read here. I wouldn't have already taken the time to think about that third person. I'm here for other perspectives. If I spent all my time defending my own, I wouldn't be getting anything out of this.

 

[Natja]

I will do that, thank you.

And that was a whole bunch of precious time wasted. There is nothing I can find. If you can point me in the direction of these second-time-around unicorns, I would be much obliged.

 

[LovingRadiance]

Natja, I think one was username BlackUnicorn. I'm not positive, but I seem to recall that login name.

 

[LovingRadiance]

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7024

That's the one I found, Natja. I haven't read it recently. I just remembered the login name.

 

[Magdlyn]

Black Unicorn posted in one of the threads Cindie linked, with what she gets out of dating couples and being a secondary.

northhome, what can I say? I am not intending to abuse or harshly judge. And a crusade is strong language coming from you. It's a pet peeve of mine, these Unicorn Hunters, but I think most of my information, support and advice is given in a rather caring or at least matter of fact way. I will link to the "So Someone Called You a Unicorn Hunter?" and "Secondary's Bill of Rights" articles if I feel a poster has no clue of what is wrong with their Unicorn trap and expectations. Why not? They are full of great info. Have you read them?

 

[Natja]

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7024

That's the one I found Natja. I haven't read it recently. I just remembered the log in name.

Thank you, I read that thread.

To summarise, BlackUnicorn came into polyamory looking to date couples, but had no experience doing so. Then she seemed to end up in many various configurations, but at no point did it seem she dated a male and female couple, though I think she had a man and a woman at the same time who were not a couple. Then she decided to be monogamous, than she decided to be solo poly, then she ended her blog.

 

[northhome]

I will link to the "So Someone Called You a Unicorn Hunter?" and "Secondary's Bill of Rights" articles if I feel a poster has no clue of what is wrong with their Unicorn trap and expectations. Why not? They are full of great info. Have you read them?

I have. They're quite good, and I have referred people to them as they cover a lot of good ground.

 

[hyperskeptic]

Allegory of the Smart Phone

So, I saw a young woman walking down the sidewalk in town, today, absorbed in a text conversation on her smart phone. Because I've seen it happen before, and because I've seen statistics about the increasing number of ER visits resulting from distracted walking, I stopped to look ahead of her to see if there was some hazard in her path.

Sure enough, she was walking directly toward an open manhole!

I shouted but, absorbed in her texting, she didn't hear me.

I shouted louder and began to run toward her.

She half heard me but waved me off with obvious annoyance.

I caught up to her and finally got her attention. By this point, I was winded and slightly exasperated so I said, with a little too much force: "You really should put your phone down and watch where you're going! A lot of people get hurt that way . . . and you're walking straight toward that open manhole!"

To my surprise, she blew up at me: "How dare you tell me what to do! I really want to finish this conversation!"

I spluttered: "BUT YOU'RE WALKING TOWARD AN OPEN MANHOLE!"

"Jesus, what a jerk!" she shouted. "I really don't have to put up with this kind of abuse! If you don't back off and stop harassing me, I'm going to call the police!"

Baffled, I backed off, and she went on her way, eyes still glued to her phone.

(Yeah, I know, no analogy is perfect. And besides, I don't know for sure she's going to fall into the manhole. Maybe she's the kind who can walk on air!)

 

[northhome]

And besides, I don't know for sure she's going to fall into the manhole. Maybe she's the kind who can walk on air!)

Or maybe it's her karma to fall into the manhole. Some people insist on smoking, no?

 

[IndieSolo]

Mags started this thread for this purpose:

. . . There are a couple regulars who always defend triads, and there is confusion about triads growing organically as opposed to being forced, as a prescribed "box" for a unicorn to fit in.

I hope we can discuss this, use this space for venting for those of us who are tired of the same old issues with forced triads and unicorn hunting that we see day after day.

Triads, an established couple looking for a single woman for a poly-fidelitous threeway, we-all-share-sex together thing, is not the only way to do poly. Why do so many people think that is the way to do poly? It's odd, really.

If anyone wants to argue about the kinds of reactions and "treatment" that people looking for triads and unicorns are met with on this forum, that would be off-topic. A meta-discussion (discussing the discussion) is off-topic.

Mags is looking for responses from others who are tired of seeing the types of posts she describes. She wants to have a space to rant, and is asking others to rant with her, and discuss why people seem to believe that a "Couple Plus One" situation is the only way to be poly.

I was once tired of seeing so many threads from and about couples or people in group situations, so I started a thread for solo poly people and asked that other solos offer their ideals. Anyone is isn't solo poly or wanting to be solo poly would not have the type of experience I wished to see shared in that thread.

This is no different. This thread is not the place to argue with Mags or anyone else, nor to point fingers about how to word posts to newbies who appear to be chasing unicorns. Please keep it on-topic and civil. Thanks.