Unicorns & Unicorn Hunters - Merged Threads, General Discussion

Thanks, NYCindie.

So, it's been established that the term Unicorn or Unicorn Hunter is condescending and/or derogatory. To tell some newbie couples coming here that they are Unicorn Hunters and their goals are unrealistic is to condescend to them and speak to them in a demeaning manner.

Well.

Personally, I am in favor of ethical non-monogamy. The problem with the ideal "third" these couples want to "add" is that the box they want her to fit in is prescribed and confining. It's all about what they want. When they don't get what they want with this or that unwitting woman who "engages" with them, they say, "She just wasn't the right girl," and go on looking for Her, thinking if they just find Her, all will be well.

Some people come here, get mad at their treatment when they describe the box for the girl they want, and they leave (much to II's chagrin, it seems). However, some couples with the Unicorn-Hunting mindset, getting the exact same treatment and response from longer-term members, have a veil lifted from their eyes and realize, "Oh, my relationship goals were unrealistic, unethical and possibly could cause harm to my current relationship, as well as hurt the prospective woman we are seeking!" Then they change their intent and methods of attempting polyamory.

Some people are just not ready to change. Some people are stubborn. Some are so afraid they don't even know they are afraid. In my opinion, none of the experienced members here who call a spade a spade (a UHer a UHer) are abusive or overly judgmental. We are all over the board dispensing information and support to all kinds of new people with problems. Most of them benefit from it and thank us. For some reason, newbies who are UHers are extra testy, maybe because they are so jealous of each others' polyamorous feelings, and rather than work through their jealous feelings and come out with compersion, they need that Unicorn woman in a box. So, having that pointed out to them is just way too uncomfortable.
 
Magdlyn said:
Personally, I am in favor of ethical non-monogamy. The problem with the ideal "third" these couples want to "add" is that the box they want her to fit in is prescribed and confining. It's all about what they want. When they don't get what they want with this or that unwitting woman who "engages" with them, they say, "She just wasn't the right girl," and go on looking for Her, thinking if they just find Her, all will be well.
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For the record, I completely agree with you. That behaviour is not particularly nice, or even ethical. We all have different ways of pointing this out, however. It's up to the moderators, I guess, to decide if some the reactions given fall outside the board guidelines.

Venting, on the other hand, is totally understandable. :)
 
On the label "unicorns"

I'm prepared to admit that my interpretation of "unicorn" as a self-applied label may have been overloaded with crap from "unicorn hunters," which I do not think is overloaded at all. There are couples who are interested in forming a triad-ish relationship with another woman, but are still open to "whatever happens, happens." That, in my opinion, is not hunting for unicorns.

We all have our ideals. The secret to happiness, however, is knowing how much attachment to place on your ideals, and how much leeway to give them.

Compromise doesn't mean giving up on what you want and being miserable that you didn't get it all. Compromise means being satisfied, happy even, with what's actually possible.

As for the young women who come in as self-proclaimed unicorns, and then proceed to list all the ways unicorn hunting ruined their lives... well... duh. Hunters hunt. Prey gets hunted. I've never actually been hunting, but my understanding is that it's considered bad form to shoot an animal without actually finishing the job. There's a reason they aren't referred to as unicorn chasers or unicorn trappers.

In other words, it's one thing for someone to come in and just say "I like dating couples because _____." In some cases that might still be naive, but it can be forgiven as inexperience. But applying labels implies at least some amount of education on the lifestyle. And that means, you should know better.
 
On educating "unicorn hunters"

For many couples interested in exploring polyamory, triad seeking is their first introduction. If it ends badly, that becomes their only experience. The instinct then is to blame "polyamory" and not to consider "maybe we just did it wrong." Yes, wrong. There are many ways to do polyamory. Most of them are just "different." But, like it or not, some of them are just wrong.

/begin digression on "doing it wrong"

If you're using people as sex toys, or disrespecting their autonomy, or treating them like possessions, or disregarding their needs because they are not the same as your needs, or dictating how they need to behave when they're not with you, or completely determining their role before you even met them... you're doing it wrong.

The only exception is D/s, where she is your submissive, you lay down your expectations in crystal clear detail, and she provides informed consent. In my experience, the vast majority of unicorn hunters are mortified if you imply that what they're seeking is more in line with a D/s lifestyle than vanilla polyamory.

/end digression on "doing it wrong"

Is coming on so strongly the best approach for education? Probably not. But the message needs to be sent. So many of these people will become relationship tornadoes, destroying all kinds of things in their path. And if they think that's "what polyamory is" then they'll make the obvious conclusion that "polyamory doesn't work."

Now that, in and of itself, doesn't matter to me. If someone experiments with something and it doesn't work and they vow never to do it again, no skin off my back.

But it doesn't stop there. They don't just say "wow, that didn't work, let's never do that again." They tell all their friends how much polyamory doesn't work, how awful it is, how much heartache it causes, and how we should all learn from their mistakes and never try it. They become champions for monogamy, that it's the only sensible relationship model. They become self-proclaimed experts on the awfulness of polyamory.

And that is where it matters to me. We have enough to deal with ignorance from the religious right and society at large without competing with people's failed experiments. Because those folks aren't speaking from the bible or from sociology or philosophy. They're speaking "from experience." People tend to respect and trust experience. Saying "I did this and it didn't work" carries much more weight than "I read about a situation where this didn't work."
 
Magdlyn said:
It's a pet peeve of mine, these Unicorn Hunters
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Just to clarify - what exactly is your pet peeve? The existence of 'Unicorn Hunters' or the fact that they come to this board looking for their 'Unicorn'?

If it's the former I'm not sure what can be done. If it's the latter I can imagine that there could any number of remedies.

For instance there could be an appointed 'Unicorn Hunter Reception Person' that could post a standard 'Unicorn Hunters Welcome and Warning Notice' that would contain relevant links etc. and encourage people to come back once they've read the articles.

I notice some posters do this already - but may it needs to be organised if it's such a problem?
 
I stopped reading this around page 10 or 11 when the ridiculous hypotheticals started being brought up. so if someone covered this, sorry.

I've been reading that the theoretical unicorn is an adult who can deal with the consequences of her ill-fated liaisons with unicorn hunters. I wholeheartedly agree. However, unicorn hunters seem to be the more visible party, making them easier to target with the warnings about this style of dating.

Personally, for me, all these warnings helped me define myself as a single polyamorous woman. A few years ago, I was barely out of my teens, and I idealized triads. The path of least resistance seemed to be to join an established couple. I encountered scores of couples looking for their HBB. Each had some absurd clause for the unicorn they hoped to catch. A large number of them "had experience," and if not for the woman moving out of state (or something along those lines), they would all be happily skipping around in poly bliss.

In time, it occurred to me that all these couples probably had it right; that I would have to either redefine myself to fit into their mold, or give up my polyamorous identity altogether. Even other unicorns were saying that in these situations the couple's needs are greater than the unicorn's needs.

Posts clarifying what the couples were doing wrong, and expressing how they could result in harm for all parties involved, helped me understand what I found so unattractive about many of the ads I read. They helped me not feel crazy when I drifted away from yet another couple who wanted the impossible from me. I eventually learned that I didn't have to accept a thing that these people wanted. I'm glad it didn't take me a couple of heartbreaks and 50 pints of Rocky Road to learn to cope with this.

I agree that sometimes unicorns are presented as some poor victim. This may or may not be true, depending on the situation. They also don't usually post ads, so it's probably easy to paint them/see them that way. I'm sure they can manage themselves, but it's nice to have this information available to them, should they need it. This is a different style of loving, and frankly, there aren't enough examples on how to do it healthily. Just because they're not the focus, doesn't mean it's not helpful to them. It certainly helped me.
 
ICanBeStunning said:
Personally, for me, all these warnings helped me define myself as a single polyamorous woman.
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Thank you for writing this. It is a unique POV. :)


Even other unicorns were saying that in these situations the couple's needs are greater than the unicorn's needs.
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I have seen that quite a few times from women. They say that they respect their partners' marriage so much, and know that "it comes first;" they "know" they are secondary because they are "new," but still there are problems with the "thirds" needs being met and some parity in the relationship.
 
hyperskeptic said:
To my surprise, she blew up at me: "How dare you tell me what to do! I really want to finish this conversation!"
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This analogy would fit better to the "treatment" discussion if the person walking toward the manhole was talking to YOU on the phone at the time; instead of the warning party being some random stranger giving unsolicited input.

The people who come to these boards looking for advice have come to a public discussion forum where there is presumably a bank of wisdom they can tap into. They give some info about their situation, about their goals, and then ask what the other members have to offer. THEN they are given the warning about the manhole and told some other truths they very often don't care to hear and yell their "how dare you?"s.

It would be difficult to express how little I care about how people arrange their love lives. I only offer my input here because I find the academic discussion of interpersonal relating interesting, and this is an appropriate place to vet my thoughts.
 
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This ties in with a writing project I'm working on right now. It's about threesomes, and of course, "unicorn hunting," etc., is something I'm going to talk about, inspired by this discussion thread--THANK YOU EVERYONE!

If any of you would be willing to pm me about your particular experience being a woman who has dated or joined an already established couple (as a couple,) or you were a part of a couple who sought out a bisexual woman to join you, I'd really love to be able to quote you. I'm interested in explaining why the "couple seeking biwoman" fantasy is so hard to make a reality, and why it works when it works or doesn't when it doesn't....

I hope a couple of you will take a second to write me about your experience in your own words, or I'll ask you a few questions if you prefer. You will, of course, remain anonymous. I promise the piece is respectful, poly-friendly, and not (overly) salacious. Thanks again for the food for thought!
 
This might be our unicorn

I am a married man, married to a wonderful woman. We've been together nearly ten years. We have discussed poly in the terms of a closed triad. We even discussed the possibility of one of our close friends, but only together.

So, about our friend, she is awesome! She's very independent, owns her own home and has a nice career. She is beautiful enough to be a successful model, if she ever desired. But she is lonely. Most guys just want her for her body, or to be their trophy. About a month ago, she had a child. The father is not in the picture at all, likely doesn't even know about the child. (NOTE: she has very reasonable reasons for him not to know). So, of course, we have discussed her being our "unicorn."

We haven't said anything to her about this, though, mainly due to timing. She just had a child and is still a new mother.

Anyway, we went to her Super Bowl party. We had a great time, talked for hours. During our talks, she said something that surprised the hell out of us. During talking about the downside of being a single mother, she said, "I think the three of us should get together and live one of those poly lifestyles". With the tone she used it wasn't clear if she were joking, or being completely honest. That's when I put it all on the line. I replied that Beck (my wife) and I had been thinking about a triad relationship a lot and that she was always at the top of the list of candidates.

She wasn't at all surprised by that, and quickly responded that she has been thinking of being with us for some time. She then mentioned all the perks a triad relationship would offer. After that, other people came in and the subject changed.

Over the last few days, we have talked to her some about it. Beck and I are ready to start "courting" her, but we are really lost on how to do that. I mean, do we call and ask her to dinner, perhaps randomly send her flowers, or maybe offer her a night of relaxation, cooking for her?

We are open to any advice offered.:)
 
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When you want to date someone, there is the usual drill. But she's a friend already? You know her well? Having dinner together is not something new. First you need to think about what you have to offer her as lovers, not just friends.

Is she bisexual? Would she be expected to have sex with both of you? What if she is interested only in one of you sexually? If she fell in love with Beck, and vice versa, but not with you, would that make you jealous? Ruin your friendship?

She is successful and has her own home. Is your goal to get her to live with you? In your place, hers, or a new house for all three (four with baby)?

Do you also have children? How old are they? Would they accept having two mommies now?

She is the new mother of a one-month old baby. She has a whole new person to get to know. Is this really the time for her to pursue two romantic relationships, as as well finding a balance in a triad? Does she has a full time job, along with the new baby, possibly a nanny to supervise, a house to keep up? Does she really want to date right now?
 
She has a one-month old baby and is ready to date? I am the single mother of a nine-month old and not ready yet, but I tell you one thing, I AM ready for someone else to be around for support. That is not exactly the best reason to start a relationship though, so you can have a bit of support.

I would suggest she is more interested in security for herself and her child than a love thing, and that desire will only last until she feels secure and then she will move on. If you are prepared for that, then go for it, but don't expect this to be some lifelong thing.

And don't get too attached to the baby.
 
Conversely, I think you should start with helping out with the baby.
 
I'm going to agree with London. I think this situation, on her end, could be stemming from three very different places.

A: she has everything totally together, especially regarding her emotions and the amount of support she has as a brand-new parent, and she has just been sitting on these feelings while she has been busy being pregnant, and things are ready to go swimmingly, OR
B: she is at the end of her rope, especially after having to still feel like she needs to present herself as totally together and independent and awesome after becoming a single mom to an infant, and more than anything just wants the emotional support she sees in the relationship between you two, and sees offering herself up in a relationship as the only way to get that support without having to admit that she is feeling vulnerable, OR
C: a sort of mix between the two (which is probably the most realistic of the three options)- she might have been sitting on some feelings for a while, needs some support with this new challenging aspect of her life, and sees you guys as a great resource for that support, and she is feeling like it might be a good time to explore that as an option.

Here's the thing for you guys to remember: she just had a baby, and hormones are still going to be wacky. She also probably feels weirdly vulnerable in ways she most likely won't admit, given your description of her, and quite honestly needs a strong support system at this time. I hope for all of your sakes that feelings are real on everybody's part, and that this could be a beautiful thing for everybody.

But as her friends, who think she is as wonderful and amazing as you say you two do, first off, be FRIENDS to her and her baby. Reach out to her as friends, not as potential lovers, to see if she needs help with the baby: errands run, a break to rest, some relaxed company. That being said, after pregnancy and a newborn, especially as a single mom, she is probably also yearning to feel like a desirable woman again. So, a little romance would probably go a long way- flowers, an opportunity to dress up, that kind of thing.

Also, I suggest some quiet one-on-one activities with her and each of you alone that would prompt a lot of talking regarding feelings and emotions and boundaries at this time. Personally, I like spa trips for this kind of thing- you're together and relaxed, but you can't turn it into a physical thing, so more emotional stuff comes out. Basically, treat this gently, with respect and caution, and you might have something really great. If not, there would probably be quite a bit of regret sooner than later. Slow and steady wins the race :)
 
Magdlyn,
What we have to offer is a stable relationship. A family to come home to, friends that she can vent to, lovers that fulfill her desires, someone to assist her in raising her child, people that put her in her place when she is wrong, and be her biggest supporters when she's right, help with money if and when it is ever needed, people that make her laugh, and hold her when she cries. The things that I think we all want. And yes, she is bisexual.

We would most likely keep the living arrangement that we currently have for now, maybe later on get a bigger house together. Yes, it seems she is into each of us, each for different reasons. She has a newborn. We have a one-year old.

And yes, I think she does want to date. She has been alone since the beginning of her pregnancy. I know that lack of intimacy is killing her. She does have a lot on her plate, and we would love to relieve some of that for her.

Natja,
You may be right, but we're hoping you are wrong. You do bring up good points, though.

London,
I totally agree, we have offered countless times to do things for him. She is kinda over protective of her little one (all new mothers are), so she hasn't taken us up on many of those offers. However, I'm sure as time goes by that she will start allowing us to do more for him, and for her, as well.

Tigergirl,
I agree with you that it is mostly C. Since her pregnancy Beck has been wanting to give her a day at the spa, to have a day of relaxation and maybe process everything that has gone on in the last year or so. We got that for her today. However, Beck doesn't know that I got her the same thing and that they will be going together. That's a Valentine's gift to Beck. I think they both will have an awesome day together without the kids and maybe some bonding that they really haven't been able to do lately. I also agree that each of us will need lots of one-on-one time.

Thanks for the advice on this. I'll keep you all posted as this progresses.
 
When Auto and I started dating, it began as a few casual "get to know you" dates. Then she messaged me and just said, "I'm interested in you and I'd like to ask you out on an official date." From there, it just grew organically.

My advice is not to push anything, just start acting like you're "dating," and let it take the course that it will. If everyone remains interested, it will just grow naturally.

The thing to remember is that poly dating is no different than regular dating. Don't forget to nurture the three pairwise relationships as being unique and special, apart from the triad as a three-way relationship. If you and your wife are the type to "court" someone in a formal way, then don't change your method now. It's worked so far, right? By the same token, if the formality of courting is not something you did previously, don't start now.

It's obvious that she's interested. Frankly, this question would be best answered by sitting down the three of you and coming up with a plan that works for three.
 
First of all, congrats.

Secondly, dating style is very personal. What I do, and how I am during a date may not be like you.

The gist of how dating works for me-- you are hanging out with people in a more intimate way then general friends. A date isn't much different then hanging out, you talk small talk, you enjoy or don't enjoy conversation, there is flirting... the big differentiator is the end goal. Like any relationship, not all friends make good lovers, not all lovers make good friends.

Keep an open mind, keep having discussions, but don't overthink it, like everyone here tends to. Let it happen and don't build a whole lot of expectations. Be respectful to her and Beck. (And they need to do the same to you two.)

Remember, a triad is 4 relationships. Foster each one individually, and your triad can thrive. Don't expect an equilateral triangle. Nothing is ever equal, but things can be fair.

Enjoy it. :) Oh, and ignore the unicorn naysayers. It's better for your stress levels. haha
 
Here is the best definition of a unicorn anyone ever sent me as far as really understanding that unicorns do not exist:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unicorn

This is a great site that helps me understand the whole poly concept and how to deal with being poly:

http://www.morethantwo.com/

And man to man, if you really want to put up with two women and a screaming baby when things are at there worst and are prepared for it I say go for it but if you'd really just prefer sex on the side with hopefully less drama you may would rather consider adding a secondary.
 
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