This is killing me, but I might need to break up with Ginger
- Thread starter Magdlyn
- Start date
I hope this doesn't sound insensitive, but I did find it somewhat ironic that you feel David's behaviour is that of a "Noob" because from what I have read of your situation, your feelings and behaviour has resembled someone who is fairly new to a polyamorous relationship.
I'd expect someone more versed in polyamory to be able to accept the relationships of their partner as long as they are meeting their needs. From what I've read, and I may be wrong, the only need Ginger isn't meeting is your need for him to have partners and a sex life that you approve of.
I'd expect someone more versed in polyamory to be able to accept the relationships of their partner as long as they are meeting their needs. From what I've read, and I may be wrong, the only need Ginger isn't meeting is your need for him to have partners and a sex life that you approve of.
Hi, Max. It is ironic, isn't it? I've been trying to do poly right since 1999 but have run into difficulties from time to time.
However, since you don't know of me and my struggles, I feel judged rather harshly. There are more needs I wasn't getting met from Ginger than you realize, and you can find out more from my other threads, if you like. I actually don't have a need for him not to date, it's more communicating around dating that was the problem.
SNeacail
New member
This is my husband (without the Asperger's). He thrives on other people needing his help and lets himself get pulled 20 different directions and overloaded. Unfortunately, it is I who pays the price, and he can't see that unless I point it out in what seems to me like overly-dramatic terms, like, "You are hurting me," "I feel like a single parent," etc. However, once the shock value takes its effect, he's suddenly in a place to try and find a solution, instead of being defensive.
Retreating is also my natural instinct, and no, it doesn't work. Those like Ginger and my husband miss all the signs of retreat and assume if there is "really" something wrong you will say something, but much more direct and blunt than all the small things you have mentioned over the past three months or so,
No not just Aspies!
I also hate last-minute stuff. It drives me insane. This was one of the things we discovered years ago. I need warnings! If you are inviting someone over for dinner, do not tell me when I walk in the door after work, call me well in advance. I need time to get my head in the right place.While it also sounds like Ginger might be a bit of an NRE junkie, it doesn't sound like he wants to be the cause of hurt and pain. Hopefully you guys can find a good work around.
PolyinPractice
New member
Why do you need a couple weeks' warning? I ask, because it's not clear you're giving a solid reason to Ginger. There's a huge difference in, "I need to know your schedule in advance, so I can plan out my week and be sure to accommodate your schedule so that we can see each other," and "I need to know when and where you'll be at least 2-3 days in advance."
Then, if he still refuses, you make your schedule based on what you do know, and if that means not seeing him that week, so be it. That may lead to a natural ending of your relationship, if you never see each other, but it may be less painful and give you assurance that you didn't end the relationship prematurely.
Then, if he still refuses, you make your schedule based on what you do know, and if that means not seeing him that week, so be it. That may lead to a natural ending of your relationship, if you never see each other, but it may be less painful and give you assurance that you didn't end the relationship prematurely.
Well, he does notice me retreating, and gets frustrated that I won't "let him help me." Which is sweet, but when I am pissed off and depressed, I don't think he can help me. Since he caused the hurt, why should he be able to help? Why not just not hurt me in the first place?
But this is wrongheaded thinking. He hurts me accidentally, by doing things he doesn't realize I am sensitive to. He wants to learn my triggers and promise to change those behaviors, and cuddle and snuggle and sex me up and talk in a soothing voice and reassure me of his love. This makes sense to me now.
There can be many reasons people would be averse to last-minute plans. In this case, it's partly because it throws me off my routine, and partly because of my envy/jealousy/lack of confidence. I think as Ginger and I work to understand each other, I will be more comfortable with him being more spontaneous with C&D.
Thanks. Yeah, Ginger has been willing to have these long hard talks. I can see his commitment to me. I was raised to be mono, and "sharing" him taps into that early programming. I found the key to why he is dating yesterday, at least a bit of info that works for me: he needs more sex and cuddles than the amount I can provide (since I live with Pixi and she needs me too!). Why should I begrudge him something I have?
Also, he's bi. This is his first MM experience and he has every right to explore it with David.
I don't think he's an NRE junkie. (We throw around "addict" and "junkie" too liberally.) He's just poly. I mean, when I met him I had two guys I was seeing besides Pixi, and I have had a handful of dates in the two years since, also. (Just first dates, nothing worked out, but still.)
Your tone is so confrontational. He has already agreed to my request, so it isn't really a problem.
Have you been reading my updates?
We are not going to break up because I asked for this simple thing. He agreed, C&D agreed, case closed. I need to ask for what I want. People can then provide it or not. If I don't ask, they won't know I want it.C&D might prefer to be last minute, seeing as they have three kids and sometimes get a sitter last minute. But lots of people manage to get sitters a week in advance. And they are not dating a single man. Ginger has a wife and an established gf. Being all loosey goosey may be C&D's preference, but they aren't the only one with preferences in this poly tangle.
PolyinPractice
New member
Oh, last I saw you were still hoping to have talks. Missed the resolution. Anyway, glad this was just a small problem that everyone was able to resolve simply.
alibabe_muse
Member
Mags, I'm so happy for you that it's working out and the communication is growing. I don't post any advice since I'm still pretty new to all this, but I've been reading all your posts and your blog and have been rooting quietly for you.
Right, I've read everything over the last year from you, and I still believe that your issue isn't Ginger dating generally, but that he refuses to date in the way you want him to. It seems regardless of how open he is with you, or what he doesn't tell you, the fact that he dates differently to you is what riles you most. You've reiterated several times that you don't understand why he needs to date in the way that he does, but the fact is that we are individuals with unique needs. The only solution is for him to date in a way that you approve, which he seems to have agreed to, because then he will be meeting your needs.
Livingmybestlife
Member
I am very glad you were able to communicate and gain some clarity on your situation.
I will say from the point of view of a young mother, that a two week ahead plan is almost impossible. Can you compromise on that?
Remember to state very clearly what your needs are, and make sure that Ginger understands what you're saying. My Primary also doesn't always translate what I say correctly. We have started using reflective listening.
Then we both can understand we both agreed to the same thing and understand the same things.
Hugs, rooting for you.
I will say from the point of view of a young mother, that a two week ahead plan is almost impossible. Can you compromise on that?
Remember to state very clearly what your needs are, and make sure that Ginger understands what you're saying. My Primary also doesn't always translate what I say correctly. We have started using reflective listening.
Then we both can understand we both agreed to the same thing and understand the same things.
Hugs, rooting for you.
Yes, I am insisting on responsive listening and no yelling, cursing or sarcasm in our negotiations. Our last talk was the most measured since this began. Ginger only raised his voice at me once, for one sentence. And he's managed to stop saying "you always" or "you never" to me, as black and white thinking isn't helpful or accurate. We are both trying to hear each others' vents and mirror back what we have heard, and take feedback on whether we truly understand what our partner is trying to say.
I think it did take me saying I was "this close" to leaving Ginger for him to really take me seriously. I think his NRE for Carla was blinding him to my needs quite a bit. And he is Aspie, lacking in social sensitivity and skills, and in kind of over his head, since now we really see: he's a male unicorn to a couple of poly noobs! And they aren't even actually polyamorous. This was supposed to be sex and fun. Now Ginger and Carla are falling for each other. What the heck is David supposed to do with that? He is crazy about his wife, and wanted her to have the chance at extramarital sex that she has been wanting for years, but she is falling in love.
It skeeves me out he is insisting presently on no one-on-one dates for Carla and Ginger. And Ginger is trying to get David to trust him, so he can move forward in his desires for real connection with Carla, not just sex.
YIKES
What is my role in this? How do I relate to my metamours who are fumbling in the dark? I've only met Carla briefly a few times, and haven't even met David yet, and my bf is so wrapped up in them. It's quite overwhelming and I feel kind of powerless. It's none of my business what they all do, and yet, I am deeply involved with Ginger and empathetic without being able to actually do much.
I think it did take me saying I was "this close" to leaving Ginger for him to really take me seriously. I think his NRE for Carla was blinding him to my needs quite a bit. And he is Aspie, lacking in social sensitivity and skills, and in kind of over his head, since now we really see: he's a male unicorn to a couple of poly noobs! And they aren't even actually polyamorous. This was supposed to be sex and fun. Now Ginger and Carla are falling for each other. What the heck is David supposed to do with that? He is crazy about his wife, and wanted her to have the chance at extramarital sex that she has been wanting for years, but she is falling in love.
It skeeves me out he is insisting presently on no one-on-one dates for Carla and Ginger. And Ginger is trying to get David to trust him, so he can move forward in his desires for real connection with Carla, not just sex.
YIKES
What is my role in this? How do I relate to my metamours who are fumbling in the dark? I've only met Carla briefly a few times, and haven't even met David yet, and my bf is so wrapped up in them. It's quite overwhelming and I feel kind of powerless. It's none of my business what they all do, and yet, I am deeply involved with Ginger and empathetic without being able to actually do much.
Alas, there are some things that lie outside our circle of influence, and guiding Carla, David, and Ginger in the right direction with what they're doing is probably one of those things. I'm thinking the best you can do is give them advice if/when they ask for advice.
The polymath thing sometimes is challenging.
Yes, what happens in the (C + D + G) is none of your business.
But the things that happen on the
M <---> (C + D + G) layer is your business.
It takes some discernment there to determine which topics lie in what bucket, and then forming agreements for maintaining healthy boundaries.
Yes, what happens in the (C + D + G) is none of your business.
But the things that happen on the
M <---> (C + D + G) layer is your business.
It takes some discernment there to determine which topics lie in what bucket, and then forming agreements for maintaining healthy boundaries.
Updating:
Two days ago, Sally, the leader of the drumming and kirtan, held a July 4th party. Of course Ginger, Carla and David were invited, as was I.
It was my first chance to meet David, and a chance to get to know Carla more. I was nervous, and the party was a bit awkward, but I managed to keep up a friendly calm front, I think.
David was friendly and chatty to me and Ginger. He wasn't what I expected. He's one of those tightly-wrapped, super Type A personalities. He did remind me somewhat of a guy I had a crush on years ago, so that was confusing.
Both he and Carla were in tight clothing and had tight fit bodies. They both also got into bathing suits and had a swim in the pool, which, most adults did not. Ginger was all eyes. They are both around 40 but have the bodies of 25 year olds. Carla of course, wore a bikini.
Oddly, Carla ignored Ginger almost 100%. He told me later, she told him she did that to "show respect" for me. Which was odd. Also, David wants to be stealth in general, and Ginger doesn't want Sally to suspect anything. Yes, this triad was all a big "dirty" secret and I was in on the damn secret. Yuck. I am out to pretty much everyone in my life, so it felt bad! I remember when Ginger first got involved with Carla and I said, Might it not get awkward dating within the drum community? Oh no, he said.
Uh huh.
So, I don't think I will be going to any more of these events 'til things change and people grow up a little.
In other news, Carla has offered some dates she and David would like to get together with Ginger in the coming week or two. So, she is at least attempting to help me plan ahead. David is supposed to come alone to see Ginger some times in the next couple days. There are still no one-on-one dates allowed for Carla and Ginger, and no time boundary on that rule. I guess it's all up to David. Carla and Ginger seem fine with that.
I did request that one of those dates Carla offered would be a good time for the four of us to have a pow wow. She didn't respond, but Ginger is finally thinking it would be a good idea for us all to meet privately to discuss this attempt at a polysexual/polyamorous relationship. We didn't get to talk about relationship stuff at the party; it wasn't the right time. And of course, Carla was pretending she wasn't even Ginger's friend there!
Two days ago, Sally, the leader of the drumming and kirtan, held a July 4th party. Of course Ginger, Carla and David were invited, as was I.
It was my first chance to meet David, and a chance to get to know Carla more. I was nervous, and the party was a bit awkward, but I managed to keep up a friendly calm front, I think.
David was friendly and chatty to me and Ginger. He wasn't what I expected. He's one of those tightly-wrapped, super Type A personalities. He did remind me somewhat of a guy I had a crush on years ago, so that was confusing.
Both he and Carla were in tight clothing and had tight fit bodies. They both also got into bathing suits and had a swim in the pool, which, most adults did not. Ginger was all eyes.
They are both around 40 but have the bodies of 25 year olds. Carla of course, wore a bikini.Oddly, Carla ignored Ginger almost 100%. He told me later, she told him she did that to "show respect" for me. Which was odd. Also, David wants to be stealth in general, and Ginger doesn't want Sally to suspect anything. Yes, this triad was all a big "dirty" secret and I was in on the damn secret. Yuck. I am out to pretty much everyone in my life, so it felt bad! I remember when Ginger first got involved with Carla and I said, Might it not get awkward dating within the drum community? Oh no, he said.
Uh huh.
So, I don't think I will be going to any more of these events 'til things change and people grow up a little.
In other news, Carla has offered some dates she and David would like to get together with Ginger in the coming week or two. So, she is at least attempting to help me plan ahead. David is supposed to come alone to see Ginger some times in the next couple days. There are still no one-on-one dates allowed for Carla and Ginger, and no time boundary on that rule. I guess it's all up to David. Carla and Ginger seem fine with that.
I did request that one of those dates Carla offered would be a good time for the four of us to have a pow wow. She didn't respond, but Ginger is finally thinking it would be a good idea for us all to meet privately to discuss this attempt at a polysexual/polyamorous relationship. We didn't get to talk about relationship stuff at the party; it wasn't the right time. And of course, Carla was pretending she wasn't even Ginger's friend there!
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