Sailing Solo

Enjoy your camping trip. I hope it's peaceful for you and that your kids have a great time. It's too cold just now in Scotland for camping but we do enjoy it in the summertime. Especially the kids of the family. :)

He wants to know about who I am dating so he can be reassured that they are treating me safely, respectfully, and kindly.
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Hmmmm - this sort of thinking is very often used to control women. Even mono women who are not dating are often encouraged to avoid meeting men on their own because they may not be safe. They are encouraged sometimes even to avoid going out on their own because they might come across men who might not be safe.

The book The Gift of Fear is a good one to read for this subject alone. If you are a woman the most risky person to you is a male partner or ex partner. The chance of being attacked by anybody you are casually dating, have just met or is a complete stranger to you is almost non-existent. It does happen but allowing a partner to vet everybody you date in order to keep you safe is probably like going outside with wellies on every day in case you get struck by lightning.
 
InfinitePossibility said:
He wants to know about who I am dating so he can be reassured that they are treating me safely, respectfully, and kindly.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm - this sort of thinking is very often used to control women. Even mono women who are not dating are often encouraged to avoid meeting men on their own because they may not be safe. They are encouraged sometimes even to avoid going out on their own because they might come across men who might not be safe.
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Atlantis, it's also a way to make you question your own judgment, because the subtext is saying:

you don't have enough common sense about how to protect yourself or avoid problems; and
you need a man to intervene, protect you, and make the big important decisions for you.​

Yuck! Being women, we are more often than not quite well-versed at looking out for danger, so this again is just plain condescension and smacks of ownership!

It's right up there with someone you just met saying, "I want XYZ in a relationship, but it wouldn't be fair to you." Excuse me, you don't know me and I will be the judge of what is fair to me or not!

Controlling men and their egos, insecurities, and assumptions about us fragile, naïve women who should not be allowed too much independence... Ecchhh!
 
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There are many ways to practice BDSM, but I would not consider it a common practice to go over hard limits before every scene with an established partner. Limits are limits. The only time they need to be discussed further is if there is some change. If he needs to hear the rules each time, it is up to HIM to ask.

One thing that jumped out at me is that he considers himself to be the best Dom. I think that is a very dangerous attitude to have. I've been a Dom for over 30 years and I don't know everything. He doesn't know everything either, especially when it comes to consent.

What he is doing is trying to break you down. That can work in certain relationships, but you have not consented to that. There is sometimes a fine line between domination and abuse. That line is consent. I believe that nycindie is correct that this has a lot to do with you not accepting his collar or going along with the rules involved with that.
 
I'm sorry, I've only read the last few pages of your blog, Atlantis, but this whole thing smacks of a ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP. Don't 2nd guess yourself, get out, and fast!

There are plenty of asshole guys who call themselves Doms who are nothing but fucktard abusers. You deserve better. I've seen this before, women who are emotionally and physically abused under cover of BDSM. Poly women who are told they can't see others, while their Dom is out there shagging every skank in sight. I even knew one guy who refused to wear condoms and targeted women who'd agree to that, and get pregnant when they didn't want to be.

I don't agree face slapping is always "edge play." A little tap can be fun-- for me. Speaking only for myself. But a slap that still hurts the next day, on the face??? When it's your hard limit? And he says it's your fault??? NO FUCKING WAY. That is classic abusive behavior.

Haven't you read about that? Men who say their wife or gf "made me beat them" by her "bad behavior"? It's bullshit.

GET OUT.
 
Camping went fine, he said I was acting weird but there was no opportunity to get into any kind of discussion and neither did I want to with the kids there.
I sent him an email this afternoon saying we were not on the same page with many things recently, slapping me was not an ok way to vent frustration, and I need to step-back for a few days to think. It was a very brief email.
He is flying out of state again and then has another extended international trip soon after. It is the perfect time to take time.
 
Hi Atlantis,
I see you posted your update at the exact moment I came here to ask how you are doing.

I was thinking that a lot of us all kind of jumped on Prof for what he did, and I hope it wasn't too much, too overwhelming. I was thinking about you on and off during my day today, and so I'm glad to see you posted and were very direct with him in your email. If you're up to it, let us know what your thought process is as you mull things over. In the end, all I (and I am sure, anyone else here) wish is for you to feel empowered to be yourself and live life the way you want to, treated well in your relationships, and happy in general.
 
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Hi NYC,
I asked for input from the forum and that is what I got in many wonderfully varied voices! I really appreciate people taking the time to give me their opinions. I know I am only presenting my side of things, Prof probably would say something entirely different if he were given the chance to respond to what I say. His response to my short email about stepping back for a few days is "Ok."
I am happy to type up my thoughts as I go along, though I got dumped with a ton of someone else's work today and am feeling a little pressed for time.
My most basic thought is that a genuine and heartfelt apology would have done the trick for that particular incident at that moment, it might still work. What I was hearing though was, the slap was pretty much my fault. If it had happened in any other circumstance than a BD scene then I would have been livid. But I was unclear if maybe it was my fault. Feedback from the other Dom's on here indicate that it was not. I am very grateful for that feedback.
Prof and I have been having issues for a while. I did take the time to reread a lot of my blog and I have been complaining about, and asking for, an increase in the amount of sex for pretty much the entire time that I have known him. I have been asking/nagging for more BD play for at least a year. My communication expectations changed when I broke up with Joe and Kip and I thought he was ok with it, he seemed to be fine.
I have said a few times that I have been letting things go because I invested so much money into the summer vacation. Now that is done, I have less patience and am less likely to let behaviours slide than I was before. I feel I have been reducing my investment in the relationship for a while and feeling somewhat resentful that he has nearly all my free time but I am only receiving part of what I want. The activities are fabulous and off-the-charts fun, but I want a very active sex life too. He finally admitted he can't keep up. 2 years down the line. All this wondering about my attractiveness, him too tired with the other Gfs, the ED, all sorts. Bottom line is he can't keep up.

The text thing: because I am obsesssed with it... The only time that Prof has not sent me a text from a plane was when he went on holiday with Ms Music, I knew his flight time and he never texted to say he had landed. That is what triggered me being worried about why contact virtually vanished for the following week. I have repeatedly told him since that he doesn't need to do it. He just did, moments ago.
I can't do " Maybe I will, maybe I won't it. It depends on my mood." On this, I am like Yoda, Do or Do Not. You don't want to do it? Then don't.

There is also the possibility that I am bit nuts.:p Jay emailed today, all chatty and how was your weekend? I replied that I thought he wasn't interested any more, the email with the "marriage crisis, pissy mood, don't want to meet, re-examining what I am doing..." content. But apparently he is in a much better mood now and over that particular week. There is a strong possibility that I over interpret things.
 
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Atlantis, I've only just read the last few pages of this. I have to agree with the others, both from the perspective of having educated myself about BDSM (though it's primarily book knowledge, not experience) and from the perspective of having been in an emotionally abusive marriage and a couple of brief relationships with controlling, manipulative jackwagons.

Hitting you when it is one of your hard limits is NOT okay, and him saying he did it because you didn't remind him of your limits is complete and utter bullshit. I'm furious for you right now! Hubby can't remember to change a light bulb I've asked him to change four times, but even he's capable of remembering my "don't ever do this" list when we have sex. Meanwhile, the reason I broke up with Guy last year was because he *liked* being smacked across the face, and he manipulated me into doing it despite being told previously that I didn't like doing it, being told only a few minutes before the manipulation that I didn't want to do it... and having promised both me and Hubby that he would never engage in any type of kink with me.

It was a single incident, after a year and a half of a fairly positive relationship that had a lot of benefit for me, but that one incident was the breaking point. He tried to blame me, too. He said he thought when I told him I didn't want to, he thought I meant I didn't want to hurt him and he just had to convince me it was okay to do it. (Bullshit.) He said I should have tried harder to make him understand I was saying no. (Bullshit.) He even tried to claim he'd forgotten the promise to Hubby and me and I should have reminded him... which was absolute bullshit because we'd discussed that promise two days earlier.

I'm sorry if I'm overstepping with posting all this here, but after reading your posts, I'm really concerned. In addition to the situation with Prof, I'm seeing a LOT of you saying "I'm hard to have a relationship with" and other self-blaming statements. Atlantis... who made you believe you're always the one to blame when things go wrong with someone else? You're not responsible for other people's behavior. Only your own. If someone treats you like shit, that is THEIR fault. THEY are the problem. And they don't deserve to be in your life.

All the things you mentioned that Prof and Jay had an issue with to me seem like perfectly reasonable requests from you. You aren't the one being difficult here. They are the ones who are treating you poorly, Prof especially. Please be gentle with yourself, and please try to see that you are not solely responsible for any relationship, and you are not even slightly responsible for other people's actions or words.
 
Thanks for the reply KC43. I read your blog and wasn't aware what exactly had gone on with Guy. I am sorry you had such a rough time of it.
While I understand that I cannot make someone act how I want them to, there is the possibility that I created an environment or culture that gave tacit permission ( not the slapping part ) by not holding boundaries firmly. I do lose sight of where the line is with adult romantic relationships. When I started reading polyamory.com I was so quick to break up with people, the line was backed up with barbed wire and a mine field. For the past couple of years I have been working on increasing my flexibility, not being so black and white. That is where all the second guessing comes from. Is this normal? Is this acceptable?
Sadly, I am seeing that Prof sublty and not so subtly puts me down on a regular basis. I am pretty good at calling him on it, but then again, am I being overly sensitive, should I let it go?
I keep reading that relationships require work, communication. Maybe I am not trying hard enough?
In the rest of my life I do my own thing, work, travel, parenting, education. I will listen to input but am renowned for doing it my own way. When I started this blog I was talking about sorting out a new job, new car, new place to live, continuing my education, travel... All this I achieved through focus and a tremendous amount of effort. But when it comes to romantic relationships argh :confused: yes? no? maybe? :confused:
 
Thanks. My situation with Guy... some of that applies to what you're saying here, so I'm going to try to make it make sense, okay?

You do not give permission to anyone, tacit or otherwise, to treat you like shit. You are not the sole creator of the environment in which that occurs. You don't *want* to be treated poorly, you don't *want* to do the things you don't want to do, you don't *want* to be insulted, put down, and made to question your own judgment. Am I right?

Guy tried to make me believe that I had given him permission to do what he did by being in his hotel room. Nope. Nowhere in "Hey, good to see you, let's get naked" was there any implication of "go ahead and force me to do something I've told you I'm unwilling to do that will break the promises you made to Hubby and me." HE made that choice. HE created the "environment" in which it occurred. I had nothing to do with his choices. He's a grown man, he did what he did, he paid the price by losing the woman he called "the best, brightest thing I've ever had in my life."

YOU are not doing anything to cause or implicitly agree to Prof being an asshat. He's doing that all on his own. The ONLY responsibility you have in the situation is that you aren't walking away from him, which gives him the opportunity to continue. But there isn't a damn thing about you that gives him the right to treat you the way he's treating you. It's ALL on him. It is up to you to set boundaries, but it is up to HIM to stay within them, and it sounds like he's consciously making the choice to ignore your boundaries and then blaming you. He's gaslighting you. He's trying to make you think you're the only one who's wrong here and that he isn't doing anything you aren't "making" him do. Sorry, but that is emotional abuse.

I'm gonna type this in all caps, because it's important. I'm not yelling, just emphasizing.

YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON. YOU DESERVE TO HAVE GOOD PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE. YOU DESERVE TO BE TREATED WELL. IF SOMEONE DOES NOT TREAT YOU WELL, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO ELIMINATE THEM FROM YOUR LIFE.

Look in a mirror and say that out loud to yourself, because I really, really want you to believe it.

Here's the thing about perception and instinct. With Guy, I always knew he had the potential to do what he did. Every time I was face to face with him, I was afraid of him. Until that day, he never did anything to give me a reason to be afraid, and he never said or did anything negative to me. It was just a sense I had. A perception of him that I ignored because maybe I was imagining it, or maybe I was overreacting, or whatever excuse I gave myself that day. Would you agree that I should have paid attention to my perception?

I know that because of my past and my mental illnesses, sometimes my perception is wrong. I also know that if I perceive someone's behavior as hurtful, harmful, or damaging, it doesn't matter whether I"m right or not. If it's someone important to me who I usually trust, I will probably ask them if I'm right. If they refuse to discuss it, or admit that I am right, or if it's someone with whom I haven't built trust, I can and should walk away. Better to lose someone because I'm wrong than to be hurt or abused because I ignored being right.

Likewise... don't second-guess yourself. If you believe someone is mistreating you, you have a reason to believe that, and you don't have to keep that person in your life. You are not being oversensitive. You've had what, half a dozen people in the past few pages telling you that? IT ISN'T YOU. IT IS PROF. Your perception in this case is correct.

And yeah, relationships do require work and communication. FROM BOTH/ALL PARTICIPANTS. You ARE working and communicating. Prof is blocking you and refusing to engage in the work and communication. IT IS NOT YOU. IT IS PROF.

I'm sorry if this sounds ranty. Please understand that aside from my situation with Guy, I have been exactly where you are with two other partners, and I"m trying to get all of this through to you so you can learn from *my* pain and damage and not sustain any more of your own. What I'm reading about the situation with you and Prof has me very concerned, because it is far too close to my own experiences.

And if you ever want or need to talk, want a reality check about whether something's "normal", or whatever, private message me on here. I'm more than happy to offer an objective take on whatever you're questioning, or to just be a sounding board or a shoulder.
 
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Apparently I have disassociative disorder and make stuff up. there were never any BD limits discussed.
Phew. More later
 
Atlantis said:
Apparently I have disassociative disorder and make stuff up. there were never any BD limits discussed.
Phew. More later
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Oh man. :(

Apart from anything else - so the same person who accuses you of too much communication, too much discussion of dates and scheduling is now accusing you of not talking about BD limits? Seriously?

Also - this is somebody who considers himself to be an expert at this stuff. As the expert would he not make sure those conversations happened - even if you didn't?

It reads to me like a ramping up. People (and animals) very often when they don't get to access something they want, do more of the thing they were doing in an attempt to get it, often with increasing intensity. Behavioural scientists call it an extinction burst.

I think that for a while now Prof has been trying in subtle ways to undermine your confidence and independence for reasons of his own - suggesting he needs to vet partners, making unflattering comments about your appearance etc.

That progressed to a slap the other night, followed by blaming you for it.

Now that when you are still not brought into line, he is attempting to make you question your ability to trust your memory of events.

At least that's the way it looks to me from my limited perspective on the situation.

I hope you're okay and not being too badly affected by this situation. You seem like an incredibly strong person and have lots of great experience of being able to look after and trust yourself behind you and I hope you are able to draw on all of that to help you deal with this.

I hope you are able to make distance between you and Prof - at least for a time to let this all settle down.

IP
 
Now he's saying there were no limits discussed... but didn't he originally say you didn't *remind* him of your limits? How could you have reminded him of something that wasn't discussed.

Gaslighting. That's what he's doing. Trying to make you think you're the problem because you're too mentally ill to know what you're talking about.

Please don't let him do this to you.
 
SO that was one hell of a conversation. I took notes.
I am far better at interpreting his behavior than I think I am. I was spot on with just about everything.
The slapping conversation was hard work. He took the stance that relationship agreements were violated therefore void, therefore all agreements were void, so breaking BD limits was acceptable because there were no limits.
I asked what relationships rules had been voided, we don't have any. He brought up me complaining about the lack of BD play and being jealous that other girls were getting it, being a bratty sub, complaints from me about not enough sex, me not dressing up enough, him wanting/needing ( not clear on which ) to share about his OPs ( other partners) and me not really wanting to listen, me changing my mind about asking about OPs,communication breaking down fairly constantly in the past 2 months., his feelings are not just hurt, he feels totally disregarded.
None of the above are rules or agreements but they are frustrations. He felt the slap was justified for many reasons.
I went over again and again that a) not all agreements are equal in weight and b) we don't have relationship agreements apart from condoms c) slapping is never an option either in BD play or outside.
It took a long time, over an hour, before he agreed and gave a genuine apology.
 
2059

my notes are on my other laptop...
We agreed that we need some written agreements ( smacks of the pages he had with Ms Text ) but these are about out relationship not relationships with OPs.
Both of us are highly structured professionally and having the agreement free romantic relationship was proving not to work for either of us. I later found out it was more him that has been struggling with it than me; but that was much later.
Working backwards;
After much discussion, sex and a tv break, we ended up back in the midst of more hurt feelings and miscommunication. My birthday dinner with friends is this friday.
I have had a ton of birthday stuff going on with Prof , he organized events and activities one after the other, really fabulous.
What I really did not want was to organize a dinner. I am sick of the cancellations, can we go somewhere else, can we met earlier, later, next week, blah blah. But I was nagged into sending out a time and place. I sent Prof 2 group texts, we have had multiple conversations , mostly me being irritated by the items listed above, calendar nights, more texts. He admitted to it all. And still managed to double book himself. With an OP. I asked him to cancel because my feelings were pretty hurt. He said I needed to choose who to hurt because turns out Ms Bike was excited and her feelings would be hurt. WTF? Me choose?
I was done. Can't do anymore. We are back at square one again.
We then went sideways with why the hell communication was so awful these past few months. For me it was the electronic communication issues. For him it is Jay. And then it all comes out. He is worried, insecure, fears I will replace him, worried that Jay's marriage demise will impact our relationship.
He broke up with Ms ( i forgot the name I used ) because her drama filled break-up with another partner was threatening Prof's relationship with me. I didn't get how that would work, but he broke up with her to prevent any impact. Wow. He is carrying all this stress and angst and it is spilling over big time. And there was the break up with MS WP last month.
He wants/needs to discuss it with me. He wants/needs my input and opinion and is extremely frustrated that I am not open to it.
I reiterated that I am avoiding squeaky hinge syndrome as much as possible and I cannot be impartial when he is discussing other romantic relationships.
We didn't actually come to an agreement about that, definitely still need to work on limits there.
 
Prof is off on a date with Ms Bike tonight. He double-booked himself. Why am I not pissed off? He booked the last table/seats, a front row table, an expensive table, at a show 2 weeks ago in the city. He took me and 2 of my friends and we had a great time. Turns out Ms Bike spotted the event, tried to book tickets to the night Prof took me and realised she couldn't afford the table and booked regular seats for tonight. He forgot about it because she was the one who booked the tickets. Personally, I think he did a crappy thing, it was her date idea and he took me first. Knowing what little I know about her, she is not likely to be happy about it either. Maybe he already told he went to see it already and I am way off base.
I don't get possessive about restaurants, or hotels or whatever folks do with partners, but I think researching a special, limited time event, and then finding out your partner took someone else first, is a WTF situation. Prof said she hand-made her outfit for tonight and has been working on it for weeks. She also booked it before he agreed to go to dinner with me tonight, so for all kinds of reasons, I have no issues with him going. The show was fabulous and I hope Ms Bike has a great time.
I saw Jay last night. We chatted and fucked, he talked, it was good. He might come round tonight as I am home alone after dinner, but he is attending a Halloween party with his family and might not be able to get away.
He brought up the email where I thought he had broken up with me and said he read the earlier part of the thread and totally understood why I would think that; it was pretty negative from his end, he takes days to respond, lots of stuff about his wife... He said he will make an effort to respond more quickly. He spends most of his day in front of a computer so it is not like it is an effort to get on line. I told him I will not fill his in-box with tons of emails but I like to send and receive electronic messages, have a the odd chat with a few messages then be done with it for a while. He agreed that was fair.
I also had the electronic message conversation with Prof.
He does not know I keep a diary/blog and I think I report the conversations fairly accurately. He has stuck to his guns about having the right to disappear for up to 48 hours with no warning or explanation. I took the path of "you cannot expect me to care, if I that is how casual you want our relationship to be." I also asked if he would be fine I did the same. As we know the answer is no. We agreed on 24 hours without some kind of message that things are hectic or a simple smiley face., it might not seem like long to many folks but he is attached to his phone 24/7 and remember this is the man who likes me to reply within a few hours and I am happy to do so. So the conversation went along the lines of... had I noticed that he was giving me warnings when he was going radio silent? Yes, I had. Had he been responding promptly? Same as usual but yes, no notable disappearances. He informed me that was because I had "won" and he had been doing as I requested. But yet he was still telling me that he would drop out for up to 48 hours at a time if he needed to/wanted to, up to and including the same conversation last weekend.
So all this is what prompted me to start taking notes during relationship discussions. I am really crap at the fluffy stuff but I speak fairly clearly and mostly do as I say I will. My actions follow my words. Prof is all over the place. He admits that much of it is work related stress. He keeps saying he will slow down on the work and he has been saying it since I met him. He is leaving on his vacation next weekend and I hope will take some time to relax. He said there is probably no internet and electricity is not guaranteed which can only be a good thing so I probably wont hear from him for almost the entire time. I need the break and time to see if he and I can move forward and sort out the communication differences. I am not willing to spend my time with him taking notes, I want to fuck.
 
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Yes, there is a correlation. NYC, you are spot on with everything you write and it is getting through to me.

The voices of the forumites here and my 2 best friends are all saying the same thing. He can't take me dating and it is all about control. I did eventually tell them about the slap, they were pretty horrified and thought he did it during the BD play because that was the only time he could give an excuse for it that I would accept.
They were also surprised I hadn't kicked his ass to the curb already.:eek:

I decided to give it till December 12th. Yup, I am scheduling a possible break-up date. I will see him only a few times in November due to his trip then my parents coming for nearly 2 weeks. I figure 2 weeks in December is enough to see if we can get it back on track or it is time to let it go. I can't do the rules and agreements, one or 2 are fine but not more.

The thing with the show and Ms Bike isn't mean, it is clueless. Her name was on the July check-in list under the section of "won't date again." Ms Bass got the chop a while ago and is back for the third time. It is his sex life but seems out of control with the fairly constant addition, deletion and re-addition of GFs.

There is so much that I love to do with him, but dealing with his emotional demands is currently more work than I can handle. He appears to be fully in control, appears to have it all worked out. He is incredibly successful and amazingly intelligent but is far more of a mess emotionally than he lets on. He admits to it in small pieces and then back tracks. I don't have the emotional energy to work with it time and time again. I admitted I was jealous 5 minutes after seeing BD play toys out in the living room, he admitted to being worried about Jay 2-3 months into it. 2-3 months of me wondering what I was doing wrong and him denying there was a problem and wasting my time. Odd what is pushing me to the edge. He has been wasting my time.
 
Atlantis said:
I can't do the rules and agreements, one or 2 are fine but not more.

... It is his sex life but seems out of control with the fairly constant addition, deletion and re-addition of GFs.

There is so much that I love to do with him, but dealing with his emotional demands is currently more work than I can handle. ... He has been wasting my time.
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So why wait until December 12th to break up? Frankly, he sounds like a narcissistic monster who is only using you (and his others) to fill an inhuman void in his soul.

I had a 2 1/2 year relationship with a man who seemed great at first, but when he started dating others 1 year into our relationship, began to seem less and less appealing for many of the same reasons you state. He also was dating a couple who were constantly breaking up with him and taking him back. He actually got off on the drama, since he had no capacity for compassion. He found the emotional turmoil entertaining, and a turn on. He actually told me he enjoyed the "complications." He also used to laugh and sneer at my pain. And he gaslighted me.

We also could never determine how much or how little I needed to know about his other relationships to feel comfortable. The fact was, I needed to just get away from ALL of it. To dump him. His lack of ethics disgusted me.

As soon as this came clear to me (as I showed in my former blog), I did kick his ass to the curb. I am worth more than that. It was a huge relief at first to have broken up. Then the pain started... until I realized letting him go was the only thing to do. Nothing I did to try and sustain the relationship was enough, because he was a Don Juan narcissist, entirely self centered, with no capacity for compassion for me or anyone else.

Yes, he and I had "fun," and some great sex and kink, while he kept up the facade of being human. Once the mask fell away, breaking up was a no-brainer.
 
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