I'm still stuck on Square One after 18 months... any ideas welcome!

[EL314]

I'm glad to have found this forum! I've taken a few days to read through threads. It has been very educational. I really appreciate so many people sharing their experiences in this lifestyle.

My problem might not be exactly a poly problem, but is a dating problem in a poly setting. I'm male, 46. I've been married to a great women for about 10 years. She's 41. We are both straight. We have no children and have taken steps to keep it that way (vasectomy).

A year and a half back, we decided to open our marriage. We did our research as much as possible. We read The Ethical Slut and Polyamory: Roadmaps, as well as online resources on the subject. Luckily there have been no issues with jealousy and no negative drama. I count us VERY FORTUNATE there! We are pretty relaxed and "open" to the experience and lifestyle. We are level-headed and communicate very well (we always have). So far we have avoided the more common downsides of poly life.

My wife has two secondary relationships. She sees each of them approximately once per week (more if their schedules allow). They are both likable guys and visit socially when they can. She also has three friends with benefits she sees intermittently, as time permits. No one cohabits with us. She occasionally will sleep over at one of her secondary's places. These are all V relationships, with my wife as the pivot. There are no triads or quads.

I'm really happy for my wife, and gratified to see her so happy in her relationships. She really blossomed and has been able to shed negative feelings she used to have about herself and her body. All in all, she is in a great place in her life!

My problem is that I cannot find anyone interested in me. I would like to have a girlfriend/secondary (or two). Since I'm primarily looking for V-type relationships (where I'm the pivot), I'm not limiting myself to finding partners who identify as poly, but am looking for open-minded women in the larger population, as well.

We have attended local poly meetings. I have not met all the members yet, but the ones I have met are not very compatible or interested/interesting. Many of them are Pagans or Wiccans or New Age, while I'm of a science/atheist slant.

I don't want to pursue anything where I work. That seems like a recipe for trouble.

I have profiles on several social network and dating sites (including PoF, OKC, Fetlife, DateHookup and Tagged) and have been diligently trying to make connections at those sites. I send out lots of messages and contact requests, but receive very few responses. Those who do respond will typically politely decline further contact once they understand my situation.

I don't think I'm a boring person. I have many interests and hobbies and am always glad to share them with others. I think I can carry on a conversation well. I am friendly. I don't think I'm repulsive physically.

One thing that does work against me is I make sure to include a brief mention of my open marriage/polyamory in my profiles. That probably keeps a lot of mono women from even responding.

What I've been doing doesn't seem to be working, so I've probably got to try something else. However, I'm a bit stumped as to what.

Like I said in the title, I've been trying for a year and a half with no success. Unfortunately, instead of enhancing my life with polyamory, I'm starting to feel like an incompetent fool, pursuing a lifestyle that doesn't want me. My wife feels bad that I'm struggling and is doing what she can to help. She has tried to reassure me, and encourage me to be persistent, but I'm still mired in pessimism about a fulfilling outcome, and much less confident than I was 18 months ago. Poly is a really comfortable lifestyle for my mindset; I just can't seem to get a foot in the door. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!

-Bill

P.S. If there are any ladies in the Tucson, AZ area who would like to talk, I would be delighted to hear from you.

 

[idealist]

Hello. I don't really have any advice for you, but just wanted to welcome you to the forum.

I do find that it's harder (in general) for men to find women who are open to getting involved in polyamory. Good luck, and keep sharing.

 

[redpepper]

I really can't say from your post why you would be having troubles, other than your time hasn't come yet. Have you been socializing, making time to meet up with people? Has anyone popped out as a good match for you? Have you asked anyone out?

 

[SchrodingersCat]

As far as I can figure, the best bet would be looking for other women who are in open relationships. Those are probably some of the only women who are both open to dating and not looking for marriage.

 

[EL314]

Redpepper, I have found some women who sound like good matches based on their online profiles. The difficulty then is convincing them to meet me. Most don't reply to my initial "hello" message. Those who do reply usually decline further contact due to discomfort with my poly situation. There are a few who also identify as poly who are interested in continuing discussion. Unfortunately, they have not been interested in meeting either. They are already comfortable with their arrangements.

There was one who sounded interested in meeting. She would actually call and message me almost daily for a little over two months, but kept putting off meeting until she felt a "little more comfortable." She finally declined to meet when I pressed.

You asked "Have you been socializing?" That sounds like a good idea. I should try to attend more social gatherings. I've been approaching things mostly over the internet since there are so many dating sites. I've probably been neglecting the "old fashioned" way of meeting people face-to-face in a social setting. Summer is coming up. There will probably be lots of events and venues. I'll look into it!

Thanks for your reply,
Bill

I really can't say from your post why you would be having troubles, other than your time hasn't come yet. Have you been socializing, making time to meet up with people? Has anyone popped out as a good match for you? Have you asked anyone out?

 

[EL314]

SchrodingersCat,

You could well be right. The most consistent contact I've had online has been with women who were already in open relationships. They are at least willing to message back and forth.

On the more vanilla sites, I see many women who either want a relationship leading to marriage, and/or single mothers looking to meet someone (with the possibility of marriage implied, if not stated). Very few state that they are looking for something less traditional.

Thanks for your reply,
Bill

P.S. As a side note; it's pretty sad to see all the single-mother profiles that come up day after day. Each represents a failed relationship that usually results in hardship for the kids (and the mother).

As far as I can figure, the best bet would be looking for other women who are in open relationships. Those are probably some of the only women who are both open to dating and not looking for marriage.

 

[Ariakas]

I have found some women who sound like good matches based on their online profiles. The difficulty then is convincing them to meet me. Most don't reply to my initial "hello" message. Those who do reply usually decline further contact due to discomfort with my poly situation. There are a few who also identify as poly who are interested in continuing discussion. Unfortunately, they have not been interested in meeting either... There was one who sounded interested in meeting. She would actually call and message me almost daily for a little over two months, but kept putting off any meeting until she felt a "little more comfortable." She finally declined to meet when I pressed.

This isn't a you problem. This is being a guy problem. And really, do you blame her? If she is meeting her men online mostly, she will want to be very comfortable before meeting. You just don't know, regardless of conversation, what the person on the other end will be like. Heck, you could be a girl... Pressing the issue will only increase the chance of it not happening. You might need more patience here.

As a husband with a wife who is beginning her own journey, I would be very protective of her meeting someone online. I have been doing this internet thing longer than it has been called the internet. I am very cynical towards online meets generally.

Ironically, I have made some fantastic friends online. But you have to let things happen naturally. Rushing or pushing is not the way to do it.

"Have you been socializing?" I should try to attend more social gatherings. I've been approaching things mostly over the internet since there are so many dating sites. I've probably been neglecting the "old fashioned" way of meeting people face-to-face in a social setting. Summer is coming up; there will probably be lots of events and venues. I'll look into it!

You are a lot more likely to impress in person. My take on the online thing is simply how easy it is to flirt unabashedly, become sexual with tonnes of safety. (Amazing how penises aren't 5000km long.) But people can come across as pushy. People can easily be fake. In person, the creep factor can possibly go away. In person, physical flirting becomes key (brush of the hair, touch of the leg, etc.), which is also more fun, imo.

Try some meetups in your area. Good luck!

 

[EugenePoet]

Yeah, it's a guy thing. Women who self-identify as poly are probably perceived by most unaware guys as "easy," and so get a lot of attention. Guys who self-identify as poly are probably perceived by unaware women as "cheaters," and are shunned.

Personally, I would always put my true relationship situation clearly in an online profile. Always. Misleading someone, even if only by omission, is exactly the wrong way to start a relationship. I applaud your honesty.

I did meet an activity partner online, but while I like her a lot, I am very wary of getting intimate with her. She has been dreadfully hurt by men in the past, and I simply will not be someone who she could ever suspect of using her for sexual purposes. So I'm the best just-friend that I can be.

Good luck with your searching. It's a process. Life is never static, is it?

 

[EL314]

Ariakas & EugenePoet,

Thanks for your insights!

I'm accustomed to being competent in most of my endeavors, so running up against a brick wall really caught me off guard. Also, for my wife it seemed almost effortless to find good matches (she mostly just had to go through prospective candidates until she was satisfied with her choices). I thought that even if things were a bit different for a guy, it wouldn't be too difficult if I made a reasonable amount of effort on the same sites she used. That was a miscalculation on my part!

I should do more face-to-face social events, even if they aren't poly oriented. Also, I'll head back to the poly group here in town. I'm sure I haven't met everyone yet.

I really appreciate getting other fresh opinions on this. Thank you both for taking the time to compose thoughtful replies. They can only help! It at least helps me to not be so down-in-the-dumps.

All the best,
Bill

 

[redpepper]

With the poly group in my city, it took going to lots of events and coffee dates with people to find people who are compatible, even just as friends. There is a certain level of committing to the community in order to find those that fit together.

If you think about it, polyamory seems to be about investing in people on a loving level, not just a casual, one-off kind of way. I have noticed that even those that are more casual with their connections within a dating network are invested in getting to know people beyond the level of investment of those one typically finds on a dating site.

I really think it would be in your best interest to get involved. Take it slow. Don't go in there with the expectation that you will find someone right away; go in their wondering what interesting people you will meet, as if it's a new hobby.

Btw, I met my bf Mono on a dating site, as well as one of my closest friends whom I call my non-sexual boyfriend. Mono rocked my world. The other guy is one of my dearest friends. I would never have met them if I hadn't taken a chance and gone out and met them.

 

[jkelly]

I think that Peppermint's Nonmonogamy for Men essay is very good, and might give you a few ideas.

"Have you been socializing?" That sounds like a good idea. I should try to attend more social gatherings.

Redpepper's advice is really good. The more socialising you do, the better.

One impression that came to me when reading your posts is that you're very clear on the type of relationship you're looking for. I've met very few people who are interested in a "secondary" relationship as a general concept. Nevertheless, people keep getting into them because they're interested in a relationship with a particular person, and that person happens to have other commitments.

I'm not saying that nobody out there at all is hunting for a "secondary" relationship. I'm just saying that you may be putting the cart before the horse. Rather than look specifically for relationships that fit your life, just look for people to whom you relate. If romantic feelings develop, some of those people will want to date you, not necessarily because they wanted to have a "secondary relationship with a married man," but because they want to date you. I have absolutely no idea how this could possibly work on internet dating sites, but that is how I typically see secondary relationships form.

As a side note, having a no-Pagan rule is definitely going to limit your partners in a lot of poly communities. You might consider being more flexible when it comes to a relationship that, after all, is not going to be your main source of love and companionship. Obviously, dating someone whose worldview you have no respect for would be terrible, but you might find that you can be compatible with more people than you thought when the pressure on the relationship is low, due to other commitments.

 

[EL314]

jkelly, thanks for the insights. I hadn't even realized that I was approaching my search from such a "secondary"-centric point of view until you pointed it out. That is probably an unusual way of going about the process, and definitely was causing me to have limits on my thinking. Also, you are right-- I should try and be a bit less focused on the belief systems of potential partners. They are likely to be unconcerned with my thoughts on the subject, so why should I get hung up on theirs?

Heading over now to read Peppermint's "Nonmonogamy for Men" essay.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

This isn't a you problem. This is being a guy problem. Do you blame her? If she is meeting her men online mostly, she will want to be very comfortable before meeting. You just don't know, regardless of conversation, what the person on the other end will be like. Heck, you could be a girl. Pressing the issue will only increase the chance of it not happening. You might need more patience here.

Two months of daily contact is a lot of patience.

I actually operate the exact opposite way: I prefer to chat a couple times online and then meet in person as soon as possible. The reason? You can tell 1000x more about someone in person in 20 minutes than you can in 6 months of emails. Emails are thought-out and planned, you get to tailor them exactly the way you want to be heard. In person is a lot more ad lib. Conversation flows... or else it doesn't, and you figure out PDQ that there's no relationship potential.

My most recent confirmation of this was meeting some guy on OKC who seemed really cool. He was poly, interested in physics, seemed open-minded... so we chatted about a month online, and finally met for lunch. Even though he knew we were meeting for lunch, he ate right before coming, and so I was sitting there being the only one eating, feeling really conspicuous. Then when I had the audacity to actually finish all the food I paid for (one regular meal, no dessert), he made some snarky comment about, "Wow, you must have been really hungry," I was like, "Well no shit, I didn't eat breakfast 20 minutes ago." I could have saved myself a month of wasted time by meeting him sooner.

 

[GroundedSpirit]

I don't really have any advice for you, but just wanted to welcome you to the forum. I do find that it's harder (in general) to find women who are open to getting involved in the poly lifestyle. Good luck and keep sharing.

Don't want to hijack here, but, Idealist, refreshing to see such a comment from a lady.

What thoughts/experiences do you have to explain this?

It would appear that you ladies have as much, or more, to gain from embracing such love styles. From your writing, you are glowing in your choices. That being the case, what do you think is the sticking point? Is it simply education?

If you feel like it, this might make an interesting thread to start.

 

[SourGirl]

I agree with both Ariakas and Redpepper.

There is definitely a certain amount of dedication one has to have with the poly groups. Be consistent, go and meet in person. Many times over. Some men do much better in person than on the internet.

Ariakas is right. It is a 'guy issue,' period. My husband is a lovely, genuine, good-looking man. He was feeling much the same as you for a while.

What worked for us was me helping him out by talking to women for him. Once some women see that he isn`t a cheater/jerk, and his wife really is ok, many of them kept chatting with him.

Oh, as for women who want to go slow, I am one of those women. I can take 2-6 months before meeting someone. I rarely meet anyone on a whim, partly for safety, and partly for the fact that as women we do receive many, many invites. The best way to weed the wrong people out is to really have patience and take our time. I can say I have never met a weirdo, or freak, or someone I wanted to get away from fast.

While I know it will happen at some point, I think my positive outlook on internet dating is due to having such restrictions.

Just some food for thought.

 

[EL314]

Superjast et al,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I'll definitely try more face-to-face meet-ups. My wife is also willing to help by talking to potential matches. I should realize that everyone is different and that many women will need many weeks (possibly months) of talk before meeting. My wife is not at all like that though, and it may have given me a false impression that if someone doesn't want to meet after a month or two that something is wrong. My wife likes to make the initial contact via the internet, but then move to meeting as soon as possible (usually after a few days of messaging and talking). One thing she does to help her peace of mind about safety is to get their full name prior to meeting, then checking them for a history of criminal activity (Here in Arizona we have a free, publicly accessible website to search all court cases in the state.) She also checks the state-wide sex offender registry.

I've now read the "Nonmonogamy for Men" essay recommended by jkelly. I'd like to second the recommendation; very well done and informative! I've got it saved to my hard drive for reference.

 

[idealist]

What thoughts/experiences do you have to explain this? It would appear that you ladies have as much, or more, to gain from embracing such love styles. From your writing, you are glowing in your choices. That being the case, what do you think is the sticking point? Is it simply education?

I'm not sure, but this is what I can say about myself, and since I'm female, it may say something about woman in general. First of all, I have not been a "sheeple" or blind follower. I pride myself on the ability to think for myself. When things don't make sense for me anymore, I abandon them. But, even so, it has taken me until the age of 52 to find out about polyamory and embrace it. It was about 12 years ago when I said to a friend for the first time, "I'm not sure I believe in monogamy anymore. It does not seem to be very practical or realistic." But there was no option presenting itself to me at the time and so I began to create a whole new lifestyle for myself. When I found out about polyamory, I knew I had found my answer.

I do think that women are especially vulnerable and prone to buying into the fairytale images, as well as the love songs and movies about love, and how you have to find "the one," and how "I am nothing without you," and "I can't live without you," and all of those codependent ideas that our culture puts on us. The white dress and the whole wedding ritual with promises of "till death do us part" are the things that women tend to cling to, with some amount of desperation at times, which can be almost embarrassing.

There are a lot of men who still desire (or think they desire) monogamy. But men don't cling to it like women do. It seems to me that you can talk most men out of the idea of monogamy by painting a picture of a polyamorous lifestyle. But women are not so easy.

It's a definite reality. I'm not sure I completely understand why, but I guess it's a combination of cultural brainwashing and lack of an alternative vision that people can hold on to and strive for.

I would be willing to bet that within 50 years, polyamory will be the normal lifestyle, with monogamy being the minority.

 

[GroundedSpirit]

It's a definite reality. I'm not sure I completely understand why, but I guess it's a combination of cultural brainwashing, and lack of an alternative vision that people can hold on to and strive for. I would be willing to bet that within 50 years, polyamory will be the normal lifestyle with monogamy being the minority.

Thanks for your thoughts, Idealist. I'm going to open a new thread in General to see if we can dig into this more without hijacking this thread.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

I would be willing to bet that within 50 years, polyamory will be the normal lifestyle, with monogamy being the minority.

I'd take you up on that bet if I thought I was going to live another 50 years.

 

[Dirtclustit]

Horseshit, complete and utter horseshit

and don't get me wrong, cause I fucking love horse. But anyway bell, like so many other seemingly problematic occurrences that happen in the is world, there is a simple answer.

Well, two really, but before I remind of one of them, I would ask you, is there really even a problem?

And let us suppose that yes there is a problem this time around, but it doesn't mean that there always is an actual problem.

There are certainly cases that the circumstances are such that there is no real problem, but there for the sake of argument, let us assume their is

Do you really want to have the problem resolved?

Take a second or even a minute or two, and see if you can wrap your head around the reason you think there is a problem, and then regardless what do you want done

about this problem