Explaining the desire for multiple partners to a mono

[aussiekate]

Hi, I'm happily married for 22 years but feeling a growing and urgent need to experience sex with other men. I love my husband and plan to grow old with him, and we have a great sex life. There are no particular sexual activities I want to try that he's not willing to engage in. The two needs I've identified for me that are not presently being fulfilled are 1) I feel that I'm "missing out" by not experiencing other men, and 2) I miss "new relationship energy".

Whilst I can't preclude the possibility that I'll fall in love elsewhere, I'm confident that I'm not seeking that.

My husband is truly purely monogamous. He has no desire to have sex with anybody else, ever, and he doesn't understand my desire at all. He's never had sex outside the context of a pre-existing relationship (I have, prior to our relationship). He is having great difficulty framing my desire as anything but a rejection of him (though he is trying and he genuinely does want to, bless him).

Does anybody have any tips on good ways to explain my desire that might fit with his frame of reference?

 

[GalaGirl]

Rather than explain again what you have already explained... How about asking him if he is willing and able to change his core beliefs? He seems to be struggling with this one from the fuller article below and taking your desire as rejection of him rather than your desires being about your wants.

If my partner were happy with me, and if I were a good partner/spouse/lover/etc., my partner would be so satisfied that (s)he wouldn’t want to get involved with anyone else.

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articl...nster-managing-jealousy-in-open-relationships

If he is willing and actually can, then maybe you guys can work something out.

If not, maybe you can become willing to let go of these wants.

Or it's a combo thing of he Opens enough to hear about your thoughts and feelings and crushes without taking it personally and you Close to just him as a lover.

If neither can change maybe you both work to accept you are not long haul compatible.

You want monoamorous and Open/polysexual.

He wants monoamorous and Closed/monogamous.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi aussiekate,

Not everyone is able to understand ethical nonmonogamy, your husband may be unable (no matter how you explain it). Possibly the book, "Sex at Dawn: how we mate, why we stray, and what it means for modern relationships," by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jethá, may help.

Sorry I couldn't think of many ideas at this time.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[tenK]

This is just wild speculation on my part, but on your second point about missing 'new relationship energy'…for me (and possibly your husband) this is absolutely connected to that feeling of initially falling in love. If he's like me, he might be perceiving that aspect of what you say you desire as a contradiction with your assertion that you are craving a purely sexual/friends-with-benefits experience. I think what you actually might mean is simply that you crave variety. Variety in physicality, variety in seductive approach, variety in technique.

When I was first coming to terms with my partner's desire to explore sex (and more) with other people, I found it very hard to let go of the idea that I wasn't enough. I have forgotten where I read this now, but I stumbled across an article that was really helpful to me at the time. It basically turned the whole 'If only I was more X, my partner wouldn't want X elsewhere' argument on its head. That kind of insane troll logic might stand up to some things - like, a love of golf, or an interest in your favourite hobby - because those are potentially things I can pay more attention to or become interested in myself. But some things just cannot be rationalised that way at all. If your partner has a craving for variety, then there's no way a single individual can offer that. Looking at it that way, I realised it's not a failing on my part at all - if anything, it's closer to a failing on the part of my partner, who wouldn't find anyone 'enough' in that standard societal way.

I don't know if it would help him to explain it in these terms - that it's not a lack on his part, and that no single person could EVER completely satisfy that desire in you - but that kind of explanation might bring it closer in line with his perception right now. He's not an idiot. He KNOWS that there is genuinely something he is not able to provide you with right now, and you denying it is not helping him. If you acknowledge what you are missing, but do so in a way that makes it really clear to him that it's not something intrinsic to him but actually something intrinsic to you, he might be able to accept that more readily. I often wonder if part of the reason why we see so many people on these boards who are happy to see their partner date and connect with someone of the opposite sex to them, but not someone of their own gender, is because in that case it's super clear that the other person offers something they simply cannot deliver. Therefore the pressure is completely off, the understanding for what their partner is seeking is crystal clear, and it's not at all threatening because it's obvious that it's about the partner and not about them.

I wish you luck!

 

[River]

.... Possibly the book, "Sex at Dawn: how we mate, why we stray, and what it means for modern relationships," by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jethá, may help.

Audio / video interview of ...

Dr. Christopher Ryan: Sex at Dawn
from DANGEROUS MINDS5 years ago
https://vimeo.com/16031664

 

[aussiekate]

How about asking him if he is willing and able to change his core beliefs?

He is definitely willing; I really hope he is able. Thanks for the link to the article, it looks really useful and we'll definitely read it.

Possibly the book, "Sex at Dawn: how we mate, why we stray, and what it means for modern relationships," by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jethá, may help.

Thanks, Kevin, will definitely check it out.

This is just wild speculation on my part, but on your second point about missing 'new relationship energy'…for me (and possibly your husband) this is absolutely connected to that feeling of initially falling in love. If he's like me, he might be perceiving that aspect of what you say you desire as a contradiction with your assertion that you are craving a purely sexual/friends-with-benefits experience. I think what you actually might mean is simply that you crave variety. Variety in physicality, variety in seductive approach, variety in technique.

I don't think of if as the sensation of "falling in love", so much as the fun of seduction - the flirting and texting and planning encounters and getting to know each other, that can happen with a "friend with benefits", without love.

If your partner has a craving for variety, then there's no way a single individual can offer that. Looking at it that way, I realised it's not a failing on my part at all - if anything, it's closer to a failing on the part of my partner, who wouldn't find anyone 'enough' in that standard societal way.

Thanks for your insight. I have explained it that way, but he can't understand why I crave variety - because he doesn't.

Audio / video interview of ...

Dr. Christopher Ryan: Sex at Dawn
from DANGEROUS MINDS5 years ago
https://vimeo.com/16031664

Thanks, River!

 

[sdguitarguy]

My husband is truly purely monogamous. He has no desire to have sex with anybody else, ever

I find this incredibly hard to believe. Monogamy has nothing to do with the desire to have sex with someone else. It's a commitment not to...it's giving up something that's important to show our commitment. But the desire doesn't go away.

From my own transition to poly, I suggest that this is denial and fear talking. Because, in my case, if I admitted that I wanted it then the argument is over.

I'll admit that this doesn't necessarily help you. But he doesn't ever look at porn or other women at the beach?

 

[aussiekate]

I find this incredibly hard to believe. Monogamy has nothing to do with the desire to have sex with someone else. It's a commitment not to...it's giving up something that's important to show our commitment. But the desire doesn't go away.

From my own transition to poly, I suggest that this is denial and fear talking. Because, in my case, if I admitted that I wanted it then the argument is over.

I'll admit that this doesn't necessarily help you. But he doesn't ever look at porn or other women at the beach?

He looks at them, but says that because he doesn't love them, he'd never want to have sex with them. He's never had sex with somebody he wasn't already in a committed relationship with.

 

[sdguitarguy]

I have found this article to be helpful from more than two.

https://www.morethantwo.com/bridgingthedivide.html

 

[FallenAngelina]

Dont' we have sticky thread on this topic? This subject comes up quite often.

 

[YouAreHere]

Hi aussiekate,

Not everyone is able to understand ethical nonmonogamy, your husband may be unable (no matter how you explain it). Possibly the book, "Sex at Dawn: how we mate, why we stray, and what it means for modern relationships," by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jethá, may help.

Sorry I couldn't think of many ideas at this time.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

As a mono person, I'm going to say that this book may not really speak to your husband. I started the book and couldn't finish it, because for all the "this isn't saying monogamy is bad" that the author does, there's a definite feel that everything went to hell in a handbasket when tribes became less nomadic and more agrarian.

I get irritated with the whole idea that this shift was a bad thing, as we'd never have had many of the advancements we've had if we were still following prey across the plains.

But I think I'm really just a curmudgeon about this book in general.

 

[YouAreHere]

I'll say that I don't know if I can ever truly *understand* where my partner is coming from, although we've had enough talks and enough time together for me to understand some of it. The blog in my .sig is my attempt to somehow bridge the communication gap, although I'm sure it's a "your mileage may vary" kind of thing.

I do believe my partner is looking for more connection with others, and prefers to not have an arbitrary (to him) limit as to how far that connection can go. In the past, he's been able to go for a walk with a friend who was struggling with some life issues, hold her hand, comfort her, etc., without feeling like he was doing something "wrong". I can understand that.

But I'm also someone for whom sexual fidelity wasn't all that big a deal. It's the emotional stuff that tripped me up ("How can you love her and not drift away from me?" That concept TOTALLY floored me at the time, because I can't really conceive of ever being able to invest that deeply into more than one person...). I can't speak for your husband and say what his issues are and aren't, so he and I may react totally differently to things. I *can* say, though, that time and experience, and going through the same issues over and over and over (and OVER) again with compassion has helped our relationship get to a mostly comfortable place. It may feel like you're doing the same work repeatedly, but in my experience, it was worth it.

 

[YouAreHere]

I find this incredibly hard to believe. Monogamy has nothing to do with the desire to have sex with someone else. It's a commitment not to...it's giving up something that's important to show our commitment. But the desire doesn't go away.

From my own transition to poly, I suggest that this is denial and fear talking. Because, in my case, if I admitted that I wanted it then the argument is over.

I'll admit that this doesn't necessarily help you. But he doesn't ever look at porn or other women at the beach?

<Raises hand>
I can watch porn, get off on it, and never EVER want to have sex with any of the actors.

I can see a guy who is SUPER-OMG-HAWWTT and not EVER want to have sex with him.

Appreciating porn or a good-looking person is not the same as wanting to have sex with them. I need a connection with someone before I ever get the desire. And I have no desire to nurture a connection into what I would consider "relationship territory" when I don't believe I could ever reasonably handle more than one relationship.

Then again, I'd be considered "demisexual" so that has a bit to do with it as well...

 

[FallenAngelina]

I can see a guy who is SUPER-OMG-HAWWTT and not EVER want to have sex with him.

YouAreHere, i presume that you're a woman? Most men I know fantacize all day every day about sex and imagine themselves (if only for the brief moment he sees her) with every attractive woman in his path. Not ALL men do this, but it's certainly the majority. Women are vastly more selective in their fantasies and I'd say that among women, monogamous attraction is certainly in the realm of common. I agree with guitarguy that a man who never has one single solitary fantasy or desire for any other person but his partner is incredibly rare to the point of impossibility. Not saying it can't be so, just that it's astonishing.

 

[YouAreHere]

YouAreHere, i presume that you're a woman? Most men I know fantacize all day every day about sex and imagine themselves (if only for the brief moment he sees her) with every attractive woman in his path. Not ALL men do this, but it's certainly the majority. Women are vastly more selective in their fantasies and I'd say that among women, monogamous attraction is certainly in the realm of common. I agree with guitarguy that a man who never has one single solitary fantasy or desire for any other person but his partner is incredibly rare to the point of impossibility. Not saying it can't be so, just that it's astonishing.

My point was more that there are exceptions to the "rule" and that one person's disbelief doesn't invalidate someone else's experience. But yes, I'm female.

Not trying to sound terse, so I'll edit a bit... I have found it *extremely* frustrating as a mono person in a poly relationship to have my experiences and emotions side-eyed and questioned. Perhaps OP's husband doesn't quite have all his words and feelings together yet; perhaps he truly does not have desires for other people. This may be (and probably is) a work in process, since OP has been slowly coming to this realization that she's poly and her husband has had comparatively little time to adjust. It takes time to understand one's emotions and actually have a vocabulary for things you've never really thought about before. Questioning his truthfulness here doesn't really help the situation.

This part:

I find this incredibly hard to believe. Monogamy has nothing to do with the desire to have sex with someone else. It's a commitment not to...it's giving up something that's important to show our commitment. But the desire doesn't go away.

is not the way in which I identify as monogamous. I may think others are good-looking, I may enjoy spending time with them, but I don't have the desire to hop in bed with them. I do not HAVE a commitment to my partner to be monogamous, since he's poly and extends the same options to me.

 

[OnceAndFuture]

Most men I know fantacize all day every day about sex and imagine themselves (if only for the brief moment he sees her) with every attractive woman in his path. Not ALL men do this, but it's certainly the majority. Women are vastly more selective in their fantasies and I'd say that among women, monogamous attraction is certainly in the realm of common. I agree with guitarguy that a man who never has one single solitary fantasy or desire for any other person but his partner is incredibly rare to the point of impossibility. Not saying it can't be so, just that it's astonishing.

Well even Jimmy Carter admitted to lust in his heart.

I'm not going to be #notallmen here but even as a poly man I don't fantasize about sex "all day every day". Yes, I certainly enjoy sex and do think about it. But I fantasize too about holding and cuddling. When I think back to the time I had with The Star, I think as often to the times we laid snuggling on the couch as I do to our (admittedly intense) sex life. And to be honest that does define my polyamory a bit. I don't identify as " polyfuckery". Physical love takes a number of forms for me.

And, too, I am learning that polyamory and monogamy aren't antonyms. There is a wide range of behavior between and around the two. My wife defines herself as mono but not totally adverse to sex with others. She's selective but rather vocal in her selectiveness.

 

[aussiekate]

I have found this article to be helpful from more than two.

https://www.morethantwo.com/bridgingthedivide.html

Thanks, agreed. I actually know Franklin, can't believe I didn't think to check out his blog, and have just purchased his book.

Dont' we have sticky thread on this topic? This subject comes up quite often.

If so, would love a link. Did check the valuable links sticky and couldn't see anything particularly apropos.

My point was more that there are exceptions to the "rule" and that one person's disbelief doesn't invalidate someone else's experience. ... Questioning his truthfulness here doesn't really help the situation.

Yeah, I was a bit surprised to find what seemed to be judginess in such a forum, but um, whatever. *shrug* I'm certainly quite convinced as to the sincerity of what my husband says is his truth, after 24 years with him, and observing his difficulty comprehending my desire.

 

[FallenAngelina]

Yeah, I was a bit surprised to find what seemed to be judginess in such a forum, but um, whatever. *shrug*

I don't think anyone was judging your husband for not having any thoughts at all for anyone else or saying that he is lying or wrong. We were talking about how very unusual this is, especially for a man. I think knowing this could be helpful for you when trying to understand your situation.

We are an opinionated bunch but if you stick around, you'll find a lot of great relationship advice here.

 

[aussiekate]

I don't think anyone was judging your husband for not having any thoughts at all for anyone else or saying that he is lying or wrong. We were talking about how very unusual this is, especially for a man. I think knowing this could be helpful for you when trying to understand your situation.

We are an opinionated bunch but if you stick around, you'll find a lot of great relationship advice here.

I think part of our issue is that he doesn't think it is unusual, and I'm discovering that he is perhaps "more extremely monogamous" than even I perceived. (And he resents any suggestion that he is unusually monogamous. )

I wasn't offended; just surprised. I'm hanging around, and appreciate all the advice.

 

[Magdlyn]

Like YaH and her poly boyfriend, your husband may never really "understand" your blossoming poly desires, but can he "accept" them? And that would be the most basic sense. Could he come to tolerate them, accept them, then perhaps some day even learn to celebrate them and who knows... get turned on by them? How awesome would that be?

In my 30 year mono male-female relationship, after the first 20 years of being frightened and threatened by my poly tendencies (I never cheated, but I'd get crushes that were impossible to hide), and my bisexual nature as well, somehow my husband finally accepted that side of me, and even became turned on by it. It was never perfect though, because he had very low self esteem, and his emotions were all in a knot. He'd go back and forth from being on board, to being very threatened and feeling ridiculously competitive with my crushes (who weren't even in the flesh lovers, just people I flirted with online, or even just celebrities). We finally broke up. This wasn't our only problem, though. I think a man with better self esteem (like YaH has) would be able to morph the monogamous marriage to a poly/mono one, without ever really "understanding" his poly partner's needs.