Don't you just hate group politics?

[LondonGuy]

So I'm pretty active within the kink scene in my area. There are very few other poly people in the area other than one couple; the woman in the couple L claims to have had lots of poly relationships and wants a poly relationship - I've always viewed what she talks about as being unicorn hunting and wanting a third girl almost as a sex toy, the guy G says he's Mr Monogamous.

Then a new girl A comes along, she's stunning, new to the scene. I kinda fancy her. L takes her "under her wing", tries to be all motherly, then tries to push her to get together with G as she wants him to see how wonderful poly can be. A is curious about the idea, they talk about it a lot... then start dating.

L then starts sending A messages saying "if you're going to be sexual with my boyfriend then you need to stick to our rules", presents a list of ridiculous rules that include things like L always being present if there's sex involved, A isn't allowed to see anyone else, A and G aren't allowed to develop anything D/S related as that's for L only...

A is feeling really pressured and didn't know how to handle the situation, so she turned to me. She asked for my advice. I listened, I formed my opinions of Ls behaviour, but I deliberately didn't offer advice. The reason for this is that I realised by this point that I liked A myself, and so any advice I could give could be viewed as biased. So instead I just suggested she do some research, I said she could read some poly blogs and could google terms like unicorn hunting and couples privilege, I also told her I didn't want to decide her actions for her and told her to do what felt right.

3 weeks ago A broke things off. I thought she made the right call.

Now though L is being really shitty with me. It's completely out of the blue. Just really passive aggressive and I can't think why. I'm wondering if A has told them that she came to me for advice. I honestly think it can be the only possible explanation for the sudden change in attitude. L has gone from being very friendly towards me to being just a total bitch and I can't understand why, nor will she give me any kind of explanation.

It's rather annoying as L and myself are both munch leaders and kinda central to the social scene. I don't know why I do it to myself sometimes though. I hate drama!!

 

[kdt26417]

Hi LondonGuy,

Group politics can be just awful, as your story shows. L's behavior is crazy.

My sympathies,
Kevin T.

 

[Spork]

When I first got into the kink scene, I was warned, in dire tones, "There is some drama..." And I responded, "groups of humans, interacting? Of course there is drama. How could there not be?"

True enough. But honestly I'm surprised there isn't MORE. Because not only do we have all of these people with all of these interests, a few competing experts in a few of the particular genres, some clique-ish stuff, people of all age groups and orientations, and the ever-present "who's been accused of what and do you think they did it?" spectre...

Not only that...

But perhaps most significantly, it's like one big dating pool for many of us. Relationships forming, breaking, reforming, all the time in the scene. Everybody knows (and talks about) everybody else. It's worse than high school like that.

And yeah. There's drama. But it could be a lot worse, and I'm often shocked that it's not.

 

[sdguitarguy]

Triangulation

If there's more than one person, there's always the potential for drama.

You can only manage yourself. And one way is to not participate in any triangulation.

Triangulation is where one person communicates to another about a third person. Yes, Gossip falls under triangulation. Complaining about one partner to another partner (if they know each other) falls under triangulation.

Triangulation is often at the core of all drama. It can also be used to manipulate people. To me, it feels very "high school". Learning to identify it and how to avoid and extract yourself from it is a skill well worth learning. Especially if you are in a close knit group.

 

[Spork]

If there's more than one person, there's always the potential for drama.

You can only manage yourself. And one way to not participate in any triangulation.

Triangulation is where one person communicates to another about a third person. Yes, Gossip falls under triangulation. Complaining about one partner to another partner (if they know each other) falls under triangulation.

Triangulation is often at the core of all drama. It can also be used to manipulate people. To me, it feels very "high school". Learning to identify it and how to avoid and extract yourself from it is a skill well worth learning. Especially if you are in a close knit group.

I'm really good at diplomacy. I don't mind talking about others and I don't mind when they talk about me. When people want me to take sides in petty things, I don't. But for instance, if someone tells me that someone else rubs them the wrong way or relates an unpleasant experience about someone else, I might tell them that there are deeper layers than what they're seeing about that person, and that I am not so quick to judge. Often my listener will decide that maybe they should reserve judgment as well, as the information they have really is somewhat limited. Or perhaps I can shed some light on why someone was abrasive because I know they have had a bad time lately or something. I'm good at calming and smoothing social ruffles.

Honestly I think that an accepted practice of talking about other people is useful and good in the kink scene. We've learned to seek more information and background if someone is accused of poor conduct, and we are able to stack multiple reports on those in the scene who DO behave badly. The fet scene does create opportunities for abuse, and not just from those on the top side of the slash...I've known abusive subs who sought to take advantage of Doms, too. Spreading the word helps us protect ourselves.

And if I want to experience or learn how to do a particular kind of play, or I'm considering a new partner and want to know if they are safe, it's great that I can get good recommendations from my community.

I just try to keep things respectful, kind, fair, sensitive, and understanding, whenever possible.

 

[sdguitarguy]

As you point out, not all discussions regarding third parties is triangulation. I only obliquely said "...learning to recognize triangulation is important."

I would not consider it triangulation if Carol asked Cheryl, "Hey, you've done scenes with Bob before. How is he to work with? Anything you can suggest to me about working with him?" that's not triangulation.

It's more about delivering emotional charged messages through one or more people. Carol tells Ann, "I'm really unhappy at the way Bob behaved at the party," which creates the potential for triangulation.

 

[LondonGuy]

Sorry I haven't replied sooner, it's been a busy couple of days.

Spork, you are completely right. In some ways it really is a wonder that there aren't more conflicts. I guess the fact that there aren't is a good indicator that mostly we are emotionally intelligent enough to process things appropriately.

I agree a lot with what you've all said about triangulation and I do try to stay out of other peoples business and not talk about people behind their back. Like in this example I suggested where/how to research without suggesting what conclusions should be reached.

Anyway, I messaged L. I got the following cryptic message back:

"You do not seem to be happy with the way I run my events, so if that comes from me as passive aggressive, maybe it is because you have not brought your concerns directly to me?"

That seems odd to me, so I dissected the message a little. It seems to imply that I have a problem with either her or her events which I have raised with someone else (I haven't). I enjoy her events and used to value her as a friend, albeit I have a fairly poor opinion of the way she treats her unicorns...

The second problem I have with it is that it seems to imply that upon hearing this rumour that I didn't enjoy her events she chose instead to respond to this with passive aggressive nastiness. That doesn't seem mature to me.

The third problem I have with it is that it seems to imply that I should have come to her directly to sort things, which is exactly what I was doing in my message. Furthermore given her response to a perceived issue was passive aggression the whole thing seems frankly hypocritical.

I messaged her these dissections and asked her to explain to me in detail what she had meant and why she believed I didn't enjoy her events. I just got a message back saying "Let's just call it a personality clash", which to me reads "I don't like you and I don't have the emotional intelligence or vocabulary to explain why". (Harsh, but probably true).

Then I got a tirade of abuse of her boyfriend and now they're telling everyone about how I "refused to apologise" - I don't even know what I'm supposed to have said or to whom!! I'm sick of it. I really am. Politics within groups is genuinely horrible, follows this whole cycle of rumour and gossip. I want out.

On the plus side I did get messaged today over OKC by a very lovely poly lady who is attending the same event as me in June

 

[GalaGirl]

"You do not seem to be happy with the way I run my events, so if that comes from me as passive aggressive, maybe it is because you have not brought your concerns directly to me?"

You ARE bringing her concerns directly to her. You messaged her to say that you noticed her behavior recently has changed toward you. And to inquire why.

I messaged her these dissections and asked her to explain to me in detail what she had meant and why she believed I didn't enjoy her events. I just got a message back saying "Let's just call it a personality clash", which to me reads "I don't like you and I don't have the emotional intelligence or vocabulary to explain why". (Harsh, but probably true).

I think you could have skipped sending her the dissections in the follow up message.

Just asked a plainer "What specific behavior have I done that you observed that make you think I don't like your events?"

When dealing with "slippery fish" people I find it easiest to talk in simple words and keep it on behavior done/not done and not get into evaluations or feelings.

Thought I pretty much agree with your evalation.

She IS passive aggressive. When called on her behavior? She back pedals. And stews in a different way.

Then I got a tirade of abuse of her boyfriend and now they're telling everyone about how I "refused to apologise"

Like that. Gets her BF riled up so he does the acting out now instead of her. Still passive aggressive. Sigh. Sorry you deal in this stupid.

Hang in there.

Galagirl

 

[JaneQSmythe]

I, also, hate group politics. Luckily, I am largely oblivious to them .

At work, it is easy to ignore. I get along well enough with everyone that I can do my job. In our social circle it is a bit harder...but since I am always welcoming of an excuse to stay home .

 

[LondonGuy]

I think you could have skipped sending her the dissections in the follow up message.

You are right. I mean I was always taught to analyse something and take it apart. I was taught this is how you argue and how you get to reach conclusions.

But I guess in this instance taking what she said to pieces, thus revealing the ridiculousness of it all, just seems to have annoyed her and achieved nothing.

Sorry you deal in this stupid.

Thanks. There's a quote I love but always fail to consider except with hindsight; "Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".

I guess if nothing else I can learn from this; her passive aggression may have been immature but that was her problem not mine... when she responded with more passive aggression I should have realised that she wasn't ready to argue... and finally, don't waste my time on people when I see them gossiping and being nasty to myself or others

 

[Spork]

The most uncomfortable thing I've had to deal with (in more ways than one, I guess) in my scene is when I got burned during a tasting event a while back. Literally burned, as in it was fire play, and the lady used some techniques and equipment that I find to be questionable.

And I come from a place of educating myself deeply about fire play, as I'm interested but don't want to get too hands on without knowing everything I can, and even then, under supervision. I've bottomed for it though, with a handful of different tops of various experience levels and styles.

So, I'm not a total noob about this, and I have never seen anyone do what she did. And I had second degree burns and deeper tissue damage that caused me some pain for days to come.

I am SERIOUSLY uncomfortable with conflict. I did talk about this with a small number of others before I approached the top who inflicted the burns. It wasn't so much passive aggression, I don't think, because of WHAT I was saying. This top is well known in the community. She's one of the big names. And I've only been around just under a year. So I was not 100% confident in my standing, calling her out personally on what happened. I was afraid of her defensiveness. I didn't want bad vibes with her.

So I talked about it here where no names are named and no one really knows her...and I talked with my polycule who were always going to know, since they were there and saw my back...and I talked with a couple of leaders in the community and fire experts. I stressed that I was not talking shit, didn't want to gossip, asked for their discretion, did not want her reputation harmed. And sometimes I only discussed what happened without naming her name, when that was possible. What I needed in those interactions was for people with greater social standing than I feel I have, to verify for me that yes, I had a right and a duty to speak to her about this, and what she did was incorrect. To shore me up for the message I needed to send.

I then very politely reached out and told her what my injuries were, what I felt caused them, and that indeed I bore some of the responsibility as I let myself get all pain-spaced (stupid!) and didn't stop the scene at the first burn. Told her I held nothing against her, did not want to affect her reputation with this but had spoken to a few others that I trusted to be discreet. That I hoped this could be a learning experience for everyone involved. Because let's face it...you've got to be kind of a mad scientist to be playing with fire. This is data. This is results.

I was afraid she would be defensive because she is a little stiff and formal sometimes in social settings and she is kind of up on her dignity and affectations. And so few people specialize in the very flashy art of fire play here, that reputation is everything and they have little cliques and lots of ego at work. Unfortunately, while her response was...professional, formal...it was more "I'm sorry you experienced a problem. My abilities and techniques are, however, above question. I relied on you, the bottom, to let me know if there was an issue. You should have. Maybe it was too loud in the club or something." In other words...I did nothing wrong, it was either you or externalities to blame. A gentle and polite form of defensiveness, but defensiveness nonetheless.

As the particular club leaders I'd spoken to affiliated with the event wanted to know what her response was, I simply shared a screen shot of it, because I wanted her words to speak for themselves, and not be accused of adjusting anything with my opinion. They spoke to her, I don't think they're letting her do fire tastings at future events, and she and I have not spoken since.

It's a shame; most of the people I know in the scene are warm and human enough to handle this better. But there will always be the occasionally prickly person in the world that is uncomfortable to deal with. But again as drama goes...that was not too bad. At least no one is stalking anyone and the police are not involved, etc. That happens, I've seen it.