Figuring all this out

[sage]

I have just read kattail's blog and I suddenly feel really weary with all this. My story isn't very exciting: just a women in love with a man who is in love with two women. I have given advice, because I've been in this position for nearly two years now, so I can identify with people just putting a toe in the water. But the truth is I still have a lot more questions than answers.

1. How does a primary not become the "meat and potatoes," while the subsequent relationships are more like desserts, i.e., fascinating tidbits that could not really sustain you long term, but are what you so often crave, because they are so delicious? It's easier to be delicious when you don't share dishes, domestics, dirty laundry, his kids and his ex.

2. As a primary, can you expect to remain primary? Should your needs be primary?

3. Does polyamory create deeper or shallower relationships in general? Surely, if you are committed to just one person, then you both have to work harder at that one relationship. You have more invested because your eggs are all in one basket. With poly you have your needs met from different sources, a bit like spreading the risk or diversifying your portfolio.

 

[Ariakas]

1. How does a primary not become the "meat and potatoes" while the subsequent relationships are more like desserts. i.e fascinating tidbits that could not really sustain you long term but are what you so often crave because they are so delicious? It's easier to be delicious when you don't share dishes, domestics, dirty laundry, his kids and his ex.

Keeping in mind everyone does it differently, This absolutely can happen, but I bet those relationship dont last long. But lets look at 2 couples merging

Guy 1 and Girl 1
Guy 2 and Girl 2

Girl 1 meets Guy 2 and start dating. They are secondary to each other. This balance is met because they do have another relationship.

Obviously this can happen a million different ways. Some people are more inclined to a secondary relatinship choosing to be there at certain times but preferring other relationships. Ideally, with everyone open, no one is dependent.

This balance is found with communication and trust. In the above scenario you may find guy 1 completely happy being monogamous with girl 1 even though girl 1 has a bf.

2. As a primary can you expect to remain primary? Should your needs be primary?

Absolutely depends on the config and the people involved. Since you asked that as a question descriptive to *me*...my needs are primary, to myself. Ideally I have support and I am helping others too.

Don't focus to much on the labels, they will make your head spin. If you love someone as mentioned by you, work with the relationship as you can. Don't expect, as in traditionally monogamous relationships, to walk into the mans world with 2 other women, and sweep him away time wise. He has to budget that time and fullfill his needs, plus 2 others.

ps, he must be a miracle worker with a calendar haha...love may be infinite, but time in a day is only 24 hours haha

3. Does polyamory create deeper or shallower relationships in general? Surely if you are committed to just one person then you both have to work harder at that one relationship? You have more invested because your eggs are all in one basket. With poly you have your needs met from different sources; a bit like spreading the risk or diversifying your portfolio.

I will simply say...people who suck at monogamous relationships are going to suck at poly relationships. Poly isn't some magic egg to make everything feel right in the world. Relationships take work...so in general, the relationships are as good as their weakest person.

 

[KatTails]

I have just read KatTails blog and I suddenly feel really weary with all this. My story isn't very exciting: just a women in love with a man who is in love with two women. I have given advice because I've been in this position for nearly two years now, so I can identify with people just putting a toe in the water, but the truth is I still have a lot more questions than answers.

1. How does a primary not become the "meat and potatoes," while the subsequent relationships are more like desserts. i.e., fascinating tidbits that could not really sustain you long term, but are what you so often crave because they are so delicious? It's easier to be delicious when you don't share dishes, domestics, dirty laundry, his kids and his ex.

2. As a primary, can you expect to remain primary? Should your needs be primary?

3. Does polyamory create deeper or shallower relationships in general? Surely if you are committed to just one person then you both have to work harder at that one relationship. You have more invested because your eggs are all in one basket. With poly you have your needs met from different sources, a bit like spreading the risk or diversifying your portfolio.

Sage, you're making me feel bad. Please don't take my blog as an example of a mono/poly marriage. My husband has been dating MG for over a year, and I have gone from a crying, depressed, resentful, angry, broken down, emotional mess of a wife to a stronger, more understanding, more accepting wife who still, on occasion, gets jealous, insecure and cries. I am proud to say that I have not had a total meltdown in almost 3 months!

I very often feel like the "meat and potatoes," since I am the one at home dealing with everything while he gets to go out and get his "dessert." That is the hardest part of this for me. That is what makes me sad. Whether this is how he feels or not, a lot of the time I feel like I'm an afterthought.

From what I have read on this site, there aren't many mono wives learning to accept their poly husbands, so we don't have an opportunity to see one that is successful. Of course, we have the RedPepper, Polynerdist, Mono et al's tribe, and the LovingRadiance, Maca, GG tribe (all of whom have taught me so much and given me great advice and support), but their dynamics and a mono/poly dynamic are very different.

While I may struggle at times, they are fewer and farther between and less severe. I refuse to give up on myself, my husband, our marriage or my budding sisterly friendship with MG. Who knows? Maybe we will be that success story.

 

[Morningglory629]

He must be a miracle worker with a calendar. Love may be infinite, but time in a day is only 24 hours

people who suck at monogamous relationships are going to suck at poly relationships. Poly isn't some magic egg to make everything feel right in the world. Relationships take work, so in general, relationships are as good as their weakest person.

B-I-N-G-O! Labels are misleading, and have been a huge source of discomfort in our situation. We are all just working on our relationships with everyone involved. It takes a lot of communication. At times it does make your head spin and your BP rise, but if it is going to be long term, not casual or even tertiary, well then, work it is!

 

[sage]

MG, yes, I know, but...

I don't think it is possible to understand how a mono primary really feels unless you are one. That's why I think I felt sad over a post of KatTail's.

We do work very hard at the poly life and our relationships. I was reading an article posted recently about jealousy, and what came up for me was that Z and his secondary, J, get to have a kind of fantasy relationship, while I get the reality of him and his life, which is not always so pretty. I know I also get the privilege of sleeping with him most nights, and building a life with him, and I would in no way want to swap.

When they are together I feel excluded. (The article said to follow the jealousy to a more specific feeling.) But the more interesting feeling is that I have given my whole life to be with him and had to work really hard to make it happen. We have a small house and I get to have his kids taking it over every other weekend and school holidays (mine are grown up). I get his computer gear spilling over everything and his grumpiness at seemingly trivial things that I do. I'm just venting here; I still love him to bits, obviously, or else I wouldn't be putting myself through all this. And he is generally the most loving and wonderful partner I have ever had.

J, on the other hand, gets none of the hard stuff. She lives on her own, on a resort-style island, doesn't have to work regularly and gets to sunbathe nude on her local beach most days, with the exception of winter. He goes there to be bathed in her serenity, so he isn't grumpy. He doesn't take his kids or his computer gear.

So what am I trying to say here? I suppose that I work hard every day to keep our relationship in tip-top condition. J does nothing and he still loves her. I know, I know, you can't earn love, but it's just one of the dynamics behind my jealousy.

I also think I have an issue with their form of 'love.' They only love a part of each other, because that is all they know of each other, and yet he speaks a great deal about loving her. How much of someone do you have to really know and understand before you are really loving them, and not just a picture of them that appeals to you?

 

[KatTails]

I can relate...

I don't think it is possible to understand how a mono primary really feels unless you are one. That's why I think I felt sad over a post of KatTail's.

Hi, Sage. You are right, no one can understand how hard it is for a mono-primary except other mono-primaries. The feelings, at times, are indescribable. Others can try to put themselves in our shoes, but they really have no idea. It's very hard when you had your life planned out one way, and then this happens, and everything you thought you knew changes. It's different than falling in love with someone who is married or has a gf/bf. It's different than meeting someone, them telling you they're poly, and you getting to decide if you want to continue with the relationship or not.

We do work very hard at the poly life and at our relationships. I was reading an article posted recently about jealousy and what came up for me is that Z and his secondary J get to have a kind of fantasy relationship, while I get the reality of him and his life, which is not always so pretty. I know I also get the privilege of sleeping with him most nights, and building a life with him, and I would in no way want to swap.

MG says this all the time, that at lease I get to sleep with him every night. But would she really want to put herself in my shoes? Would she really want to go through what I am feeling? Would she really want to watch her husband go off to be with another woman? She has said in counseling that she wouldn't/couldn't, and gives me a lot of credit for doing it.

When they are together I feel excluded. (The article said to follow the jealousy to a more specific feeling).) But the more interesting feeling is that I have given my whole life to be with him and had to work really hard to make it happen. We have a small house, and I get to have his kids taking it over every other weekend and school holidays. (Mine are grown up.) I get his computer gear spilling over everything, and his grumpiness at seemingly trivial things that I do. I'm just venting here. I still love him to bits, obviously, or else I wouldn't be putting myself through all this. And he is generally the most loving and wonderful partner I have ever had.

I completely understand what you are saying. Why do you think that people suggest living with someone before they get married? Living with someone, dealing with all that goes with that, plus children etc., is very hard. I love my husband more than anything, but at times, he is very demanding and difficult to live with (as am I). MG has said that she doesn't think she could live with him, that their personalities are too similar. It's my life, it's the life I have chosen, but it isn't always sunshine and roses.

J, on the other hand, gets none of the hard stuff. She lives on her own, on a resort-style island, doesn't have to work regularly and gets to sunbathe nude on her local beach most days, with the exception of winter. He goes there to be bathed in her serenity, so he isn't grumpy. He doesn't take his kids or his computer gear.

I say this all the time. Yes, MG has responsibilities, stresses etc., but when they are together, she can lose herself in him and put all of her issues aside. When I am with 2rings we do have the issues of kids, house, dog, jobs, family, etc., but we can't just forget about all that. We don't have a lot of time alone, with just the two of us. When they go out it is just the two of them. They can have a picnic, take a walk, sit in the park, etc., with nothing to distract them. He and I can barely hug without the kids or the dog jumping in. We don't get to go out to dinner by ourselves. Forget taking a walk, sitting in the park etc. It doesn't happen. The only alone time we get is late at night after he gets home from work, when we are both exhausted, and half of the time can barely keep our eyes open. Where's the excitement in that?

MG and 2rings are going away for an overnight next weekend. All they have to do is pick a place, let their spouses know, pack their bags and go. 2rings doesn't have to worry about anything because he knows I'll be here to take care of the kids, the dog, the house, the bills etc. I'm sure MG has it a little harder, as she has teenagers, but she still has people there to help out. They get to go off with no responsibilities, with only each other to focus on.

2rings and I are going away in a few days for an overnight and there is a lot more to do. We have to pick a place, make sure the kids can go to their grandparents, call the kennel, pack the kids' stuff, take the dog to the kennel, take the kids to their grandparents, make sure the bills are paid ahead of time, set the timers. There is so much more to worry about that it starts to lose its excitement. Then, while we are gone, we worry if the kids are behaving, how much the kennel is going to cost, etc. I can't help but feel that I am the bland and boring meat and potatoes while MG is the sweet, decadent, exciting dessert. I am the boring, stressed, emotional wife, while MG is the fun-loving, sexy, sensual girlfriend.

I also think I have an issue with their form of 'love.' They only love a part of each other, because that is all they know of each other, and yet he speaks a great deal about loving her. How much of someone do you have to really know and understand before you are really loving them and not just a picture of them that appeals to you?

Again, I have felt the same way many times. I am not saying that if she knew more about 2rings that she wouldn't love him, but fantasy is always better than reality. Day-to-day life is much more stressful than going out for a few hours or an overnight here and there. It just is. You never really know a person until you live with them. Do not read this as a complaint. As I said, I love him more than anything, or I wouldn't still be here. But our relationship is very different from theirs because we are married, have kids, a house, jobs, etc. They have flirting, excitement, late-night rendezvous, sneaking glances.

I have no doubt that MG has a different take on this. After all, we are coming from two different perspectives. I am speaking about how I feel, how it feels to be a "mono-primary." This is where Sage is coming from, and I can relate to her.

Sage, any time you need to talk or vent, please do not hesitate to PM me!

Hang in there!

Kat

 

[MonoVCPHG]

Kat

Nice post, Kat!

 

[KatTails]

Sage, in rereading my post, I realize that I didn't really offer you any advice and that I made it all about me. I have a bad tendency of doing that. I'm having a rough time today and have a lot of thoughts and feelings running through me and they kind of took over. I'm sorry. However, I don't have any advice to give. I really don't know how to stop feeling this way. I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone and that there are people on here who are going through the same thing and feeling the same way you do.

All we can do is support each other so we don't feel so alone.

Kat

 

[Lost421]

I understand completely how you feel, Sage,

My wife and I get to deal with all the mundane, often difficult, trying parts of a relationship, such as paying bills, sharing household work, and just trying to get by. I feel like she can forget about all then when she is with M. It's unfortunate, since he's a bachelor and definitely living the bachelor lifestyle, but if I let our house get so disgustingly filthy and cluttered she would have a fit! But she doesn't ever say anything about the state of his place to him, she just deals with it. On the plus side, I think my wife and I have a much deeper emotional connection because we have had to deal with the hard stuff, the tough decisions, and all the mundane bits of life that get in the way of just having fun.

I'm not sure if I consider myself a mono-primary, but that's how things are at the moment nonetheless, so I know where you're coming from. My wife and M get to go on weekend getaways while I'm stuck with the housework, the bills, and dealing with her work clients that want to change their appointments, or add more time, or what have you. Lucky for us, we don't have kids yet, but if we do that will make things even more difficult.

Sometimes its hard being the 'beast of burden,' so to speak. You should probably just tell him how you feel about it, and let your frustrations be known. Sounds to me like you and your partner need to take some time just for the two of you once in a while, and you have to ask for what you want in life, right?

And so far as the type of love your husband and his gf have, you're probably right, they are in love in a bit of a fantasy world where they do not have the same responsibilities and he can just leave his responsibilities with you. If this bothers you, you need to tell him. You deserve some of that fantasy too, just as she deserves to see the piece of himself he leaves behind when he goes to see her. Being the meatloaf and potatoes in a relationship can often feel unfair, but remember that a person can't live on desserts alone.

R

 

[Morningglory629]

Here is the issue I have with this thread. There is a tone here that a mono has some monopoly on relationship hardships. That is completely untrue. KT, I think you can attest to that, and have posted here about the issues 2R and I have had frequently. Also, you act as if the "secondaries" do not have their own domestic responsibilities, and dismiss the fact that those sometimes play into the relationships with your SOs. Not really a fair assessment, especially of how 2R and I relate to each other on many levels.

So, as a matter of fact, in the general thread, the hinges in your relationships have a lot more to handle than you are giving them credit for. They juggle at least two lovers. They are committed to both/all relationships. They are working hard to keep both/all happy. (Some polys have to juggle more than two.) According to you, they see you as their "meat and potatoes," the staple in their lives, the nourishment they need, their comfort food, so to speak. Not only are you commiserating about that role, but you are dismissing their significant others as "dessert," empty calories, and not really filling. Very rude, in my opinion. I think I offer a bit more to my lover than empty calories and fantasy. That may just be my opinion. But yes, KT, I would love to swap places with you for even just a month. I don't know that I could live with 2R, but I would like to try it some time. We are very similar. That could be a dream or a nightmare situation. I hope it would be the former.

You forget that your polys are by nature loving and generous people who are doing their very best to provide and support you and see you through ACCEPTING them, not accepting the end of the future you thought you had... learning to accept them as who they truly are, and ALWAYS have been, when you look into their relationships. And BTW, that future is still with them, right? You have all stated something to tune of "Don't take this as complaining, because I love him/her to bits, etc.," but YOU ARE COMPLAINING!

You are sticking this out because you have great spouses/gfs/bfs/SOs/whatever you want to call them. But here is what I think you are all missing in the poly/mono debate: relationships are all individual. I relate to my men individually. I bring to them what they need from me as individuals. There is no blanket way of loving. It is all real-- nothing fake, or forced, or without struggles.

Is a lot of it NRE? Maybe, in your opinion. I think it is just energy itself. I bring energy to any relationship I have. It isn't new and then fizzles. Energy is a constant. I work at every relationship: friendship, family tie or lover. I can only assume your SOs are similar in that they are passionate people. That is what you are drawn to.

Now, I do not pretend to understand the need for labeling yourselves as primaries, and us as secondaries, but if that is what you feel is necessary, then so be it. But you really shouldn't make it seem as if the relationship or the love is somehow less than yours. I think that is naive on your part. So I would just ask that you not relegate my understanding of how you feel as subpar because I am poly and you are mono. I think I am pretty good at maintaining relationships because I pay attention and think of my lovers and friends usually before I think of myself, and that is the trick for success and happiness. So I guess I do have a very different perspective.

I hope this helps... truly, I do. I don't want you to take this as a rant or retaliatory in nature. I just think if you are going to continue relationships with your polys you need to appreciate them a little more and not complain so much. There is a difference between venting and whining. Someone on here once told me, don't look this gift horse in the mouth, and another one said, don't be greedy. These have become checkpoints for me! Just sharing.

 

[sage]

Thanks for putting so much energy into your reply

I haven't read back over the thread but I am wondering if it was the commonality of feelings that made us seem complaining and whiny. And some people who responded are obviously in different spaces to KT and me. From what I have read she is, like me, essentially very happy in her relationship.

I have no one to talk about this stuff with, This is the only place where there is any understanding of my situation. The few people I have told can't understand why I would put up with the situation. They almost see it as a form of abuse and me lacking something in myself that makes me stay.

I didn't mean to generalize about all secondaries and I'm sorry if it came out that way. J does have a very easy domestic set up. She has worked hard to create it. I know she does have other challenges. I know that it must also be difficult being a secondary. J has so far remained celibate, one of the reasons being that she believes it will save her from tormented feelings when Z (and maybe others) aren't there (which is most of the time).

But the feelings that have been expressed in this thread are real. It's all very well to talk of love and compersion (the up sides of poly) but we monos have these feelings. I'm sure there is another range of challenging feelings that is common to 'secondaries.' (I'm just using this as a label here for convenience of understanding.) I think it's really healthy to be able to express these feeling somewhere and have people going through the same things understand.

There is a lot more in your response but I will have to break it down a bit to digest it all fully.

Sage

 

[sage]

And then there's the dessert analogy

I didn't mean to be rude, but In our case, Z and J have acknowledged that they couldn't have a 'full-time' relationship. So, to me, that means that they couldn't sustain each other. They had the opportunity before I came on the scene. He had left his wife and they were great friends even then.

Some desserts are nourishing, some are not, but they have a specialness about them. Like someone said, we all need to feel special sometimes and I've very lucky that Z makes me feel very special most of the time.

Sage

 

[Morningglory629]

And some people who responded are obviously in different spaces to KT and me. From what I have read she is, like me, essentially very happy in her relationship.

She does say that a lot, especially in other threads. I just think that constant focus on the negative, or perceived negative, is detrimental to moving on and growth.

I have no one to talk about this stuff with, this is the only place that there is any understanding of my situation. The few people I have told can't understand why I would put up with the situation. They almost see it as a form of abuse and me lacking something in myself that makes me stay.

I feel bad for you on this one. Do you think it may be because of the way you are presenting it? I have told several people and I have yet to run into any negatives. Perhaps you are presenting as a victim, and then they wonder why you would continue to make yourself miserable. Just a thought. The only negative I have received from the people I have come out to is their concern for my relationship with KT, not my husband, not 2Rings. This may be because I present the happiness first. Problems aren't the projection I want here.

J does have a very easy domestic set up. She has worked hard to create it. I know she does have other challenges. I know that it must also be difficult being a secondary. J has so far remained celibate, one of the reasons being that she believes this will save her from tormented feelings when Z (and maybe others) aren't there (which is most of the time).

Nothing in these statements seem to convey an easy time for J.

But the feelings that have been expressed in this thread are real. It's all very well to talk of love and compersion (the up sides of poly) but we monos have these feelings. I'm sure there is another range of challenging feelings that is common to 'secondaries.' (I'm just using this as a label here for convenience of understanding.) I think it's really healthy to be able to express these feeling somewhere and have people going through the same things understand.

Absolutely! Express away. I was just giving you a different perspective and the opportunity to think about what a poly secondary may be feeling, and how general statements that aren't really factual can be misleading.

For me, and I am only speaking for myself, 2Rings is a secondary. in your terms, but I do NOT consider his love for me any less than my husband's love for me. We do not share domestic duties and responsibilities. We do not have children. We do make time for each other, which in itself can wreak havoc on our lives in other ways (having to deal with scheduling, paying for our meetings/activities, and most importantly the possible, not always, but sometimes, reactions of our spouses). We make time for each other because that is what you do to stay connected. All the reasons you state as obstacles are just that, obstacles, but mostly ones that should be easily set aside for a few hours each week to connect with your loved one.

I think you should express and vent and tell your story. It is important for everyone. I read mono pov's because I have two in my life. I need to hear their problems so I understand what I need to do. Don't just read mono pov's because well, you know what that feeling is. You are trying to learn and grow, not just commiserate. It's important to make the connections, of course, with KT, AK and Mono, etc., but also VERY important that you consider what you NEED to become more positive about your life.

 

[Ariakas]

I didn't mean to be rude but In our case Z and J acknowledge that they couldn't have a 'full-time' relationship so to me that means that they couldn't sustain each other. They had the opportunity before I came on the scene. He had left his wife and they were great friends even then.

Some relationships naturally suit a prescribed secondary model. Flirty, fun, almost like a mini vacation. Not everyone's secondary relationship is that relaxed, as everyone builds their relationships differently.

Some people on other forums come online looking for relationships AS secondaries. In their head it is a committed relationship without all the ties. Kudos to them for knowing what they want.

Other people view the prescribed secondary term as almost derogatory. As it has the potential to describe the above person, when in fact they do not have a "degraded" role in their relationship. The love is as primary as ... well their primary

And please keep sharing, thats why this forum is here. To put things on the table that need discussing. Different viewpoints and perspectives help process.

 

[Ariakas]

I just think that constant focus on the negative, or perceived negative, is detrimental to moving-on and growth.

Really, this is true for everything in any situation.

I have been known to get into negative spirals. Its creates what I call the toilet bowl affect to the point I can't see positive when it comes my way. Luckily I have friends and a wonderful wife to slap me upside the head when I get to involved in my own misery.

Not only does it affect me, but it can bring down people around me (hell I am a pisces I wear my life on my arm, people ALWAYS know how I feel) which is usually what drags me back out. I always feel very bad when I notice other people are coming down the toilet with me, so I fight to come back.

Btw, not saying here anyone here is at that point, just making a general point about being negative and how it can become a compound injury if not dealt with

 

[KatTails]

Here is the issue I have with this thread. There is a tone here that a mono has some monopoly on relationship hardships. That is completely untrue. And KT, I think you can attest to that and have posted on here about the issues 2R and I have had frequently. Also, you act as if the "secondaries" do not have their own domestic responsibilities, and dismiss the fact that those sometimes play on the relationships with your SOs. Not really a fair assessment-especially of how 2R and I relate to each other on many levels. So, as a matter of fact, in the general thread, the hinges in your relationships have a lot more to handle than you are giving them credit for. They juggle at least two lovers. They are committed to both/all relationships. They are working hard to keep both/all happy (and some polys have to juggle more than two).

MG, as I stated in my post, I can only give my point of view in this situation. I can't speak for you or for the "secondary" point of view, because I am not living it. I do know that you have your own domestic responsibilities. I never insinuated that you didn't. I do know that you and 2rings have your own issues, your own stresses, your own problems. I am often criticized for how long my posts are, so I chose to only present my POV because honestly, that's all I know. It was not a slam against you, or a way to minimize the things that you do, experience or bring to your relationship with 2rings. The OP was about the feelings of a "mono-primary," not a "secondary." I do give you credit. I just didn't feel that this was the thread to bring it up in. Maybe you can start a thread about how "secondaries" feel, and the hardships that they face.

According to you, they see you as their "meat and potatoes," the staple in their lives, the nourishment they need, their comfort food, so to speak. Not only are you commiserating about that role, but you are dismissing their significant others as "dessert," empty and not really filling. Very rude, in my particular opinion. I think I offer a bit more to my lover than empty calories and fantasy.

Again, we are talking about OUR roles in our relationships. If this is how you feel, then I think you missed the whole point of that analogy. The fact of the matter is, yes, you and he have issues, problems, etc. But you two do not have the responsibilities and pressures of children, a house, bills and the general day-to-day issues. You just don't. It's not a slam, it's a fact. Do you two have other issues? Yes. I never said you didn't. Do I think you are "empty calories"? No, I don't. You bring and give a lot to him. He needs you in his life. But you know that your relationship with him is a lot different than your with P. That's all I'm saying.

You have all stated something to tune of "Don't take this as complaining, because I love him/her to bits, etc.," but YOU ARE COMPLAINING!

Have you never complained about P? You love him, but you still get annoyed with him, right? You aren't completely, 100% happy with everything about him, right? That doesn't mean you don't love him. That doesn't mean you don't want to be married to him.

We all have problems and difficulties in our marriages. That's part of life. The point is that you only see 2rings in certain situations. You don't know what it is like to live with him, to raise children with him, to run a household with him. You don't have to deal daily with his quirks and his set-in-his-ways personality. You don't see the same sides of him that I do, because you are in a different part of his life.

Again, it's not a slam against you. It's just a fact. If a woman came along and thought that P was all that and a bag of chips, don't you think you would feel the same way I do? Wouldn't you get a little jealous that she doesn't have to deal with all of his negatives all the time? It doesn't mean that you don't love him, but you would see a side of him that another woman wouldn't, because she doesn't live with him. That is all I am saying.

The grass is always greener on the other side. You want what I have. You want to be married to him, live with him, have children with him. I want what you have, the freedom with him, no responsibilities with him, the time to focus on just each other. But they each come with their own positives and negatives.

Now, I do not pretend to understand the need for labeling yourselves as primary and us secondary, but if that is what you feel is necessary, then so be it. But you really shouldn't make it seem as if the relationship or the love is somehow less than yours. I think that is naive on your part. So I would just ask that you not relegate my understanding of how you feel as subpar because I am poly and you are mono.

In my post I used the term "mono-primary" because that is what the OP used in her initial post, not because I feel the need to degrade your relationship with 2rings. Personally, I don't see the big deal in using the terms primary and secondary, because to me, they aren't used in a negative or degrading way, but to show the differing relationships each has.

I consider myself 2rings primary because we are married, have children, a house, a dog and more, NOT because he loves me more than you. I am not making it seem that his love for you is less than, or subpar to his love for me, not at all. But the responsibilities, commitments, burdens that he and I have are more than you and he have, just like the responsibilities, commitments and burdens that you and P have are more than you and 2rings have.

It has nothing to do with love. He loves you and me equally, but differently, just as you love him and P equally, but differently. Labels, in this case, are often used to clarify relationships, not to degrade, put down others or put a hierarchy on love.

I just think that constant focus on the negative, or perceived negative, is detrimental to moving on and growth.

I agree, but I am finding it difficult to find the positives right now. You aren't in my shoes, so you really can't understand what I am feeling and how your relationship with 2rings does cause me to look at the negative.

The only negative I have received from the people I have come out to is their concern for my relationship with KT, not my husband, not 2Rings. This may be because I present the happiness first. Problems aren't the projection I want here.

You have two people you love, who love you. That is a big positive for you. For me, I have a husband who loves someone else. I have to give up time with my husband so that he can spend it with you. Those are big negatives for me. How can I present the positive of my husband having a girlfriend? For most people, that is incomprehensible!

Most women wouldn't or couldn't put up and deal with what I am. If a friend came to you and said "My husband is having an affair," or "My husband is in love with someone else," would you immediately look for the positive in the situation, or would you see the negative and feel bad for and concern for your friend?

Again, MG, it is all perspective and point of view. Are there positives in this situation? Yes, but they are often overshadowed by the negative. For my own sake, do I need to try to focus on the positives more? Yes, and I am trying.

I need to run. As I type this, 2rings is yelling at me because he's ready to leave, and is threatening to leave without me. (This is one of those things that you don't have to deal with, MG.) I will edit, if needed, when I have time.

 

[Lost421]

This is just my opinion, and since I've only been in a poly relationship for a couple of years, I don't think it carries a ton of weight. But here it is:

Some poly relationships are inherently primary/secondary. My gf cannot imagine ever living with/having children with her bf. She enjoys the time they have together, but she is thankful I'm the one she's living with and spending the bulk of her time with, and could not have the same relationship with her bf. I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone, but sometimes that's just how a poly relationship works out.

I'm not applying value judgments to different parts of the relationship. We could as easily call them relationship A and relationship B, but that can be construed as having a value judgment placed on it, too. I'm not saying that all poly relationships need to be labeled or designated primary/secondary, etc., but calling them primary/secondary does work, in some cases, because it is an accurate description, and everyone involved (at least in my situation) is comfortable calling it that.

I'm not saying that it's not difficult and a lot of juggling on the poly partner's part (as I'm finding out). I'm the first one to give my wife full credit for having to balance two relationships. I'm understanding when I feel like my relationship needs/wants are not being understood or responded to, but there comes a point where it's not just a momentary pang of jealousy, and it really starts to bug me, and I have to voice my opinions or risk feeling resentment for her and her bf, which is the last thing I want.

The concerns and feelings of mono spouses of poly partners may seem like whining sometimes, but if there are hard feelings and they are articulated in such a way that they are not just venting, I would be very hesitant to call it whining. I would be much more comfortable asking the question "So what do you want, then?" Again, I'm not trying to offend anybody, but coming from the perspective of having to deal with my wife's business, all the housework, my own job, and all the various other domestic responsibilities when she goes to see her boyfriend (in addition to feeling compersion, which I do), can be pretty frustrating, especially since the same kind of weekend-getaway-type scenarios are nigh on unobtainable for my wife and me. Of course I want to enjoy that aspect of our relationship, and when someone else is getting it, and not you, it creates frustration and can lead to jealousy.

Luckily enough, for me, I have my own relationship with a new gf and I'm now getting those weekend-getaway scenarios. Unfortunately, my wife has voiced her frustrations, saying that when I go away she feels like she gets stuck with all the domestic chores. I'm not sure I would call it venting or whining on her part, because I realize that, yes, in fact, I am skiving off all the weekend chores to go snuggle with my gf. I'm glad she told me, because now we have both been on both sides of this situation, and it has created more understanding for both of us. Now when one of us goes away for the weekend, we get as much of the housework done on Thursday and Friday as we can. That way, whoever is going away doesn't have to feel guilty about leaving behind the dirty dishes, and the person staying home for the weekend can enjoy having the place to themselves, instead of just making it livable again.

I'm not in any way trying to say that my wife and her bf have it easier than me. Heck, they seem to have more relationship frustrations then she and I do!

As for the dinner/dessert analogy, I apologize if I offended anyone. It wasn't my intention to place value judgments on different positions in poly relationships. I'm just trying to describe how the relationships are different, not that one is more valuable than the other. I'm not trying to say that one is better than the other. They both have their own set of frustrations and disappointments and joys and satisfactions. Sometimes you just want what the other person has, that whole "grass is always greener on the other side" fallacy.

Again, my apologies if I offended anyone; I'm just telling it how I see it.

R

 

[sage]

That right there is the positive in all this

Sorry, there should be a nice little quote here, but I can't figure out how to quote just part of a post, so I'll have to paraphrase. Lost's wife expressed her feelings about the domestics and they were able to figure out a way to make it better. That is exactly how this expressing thing can work positively. I call it "baby steps." It's like all this emotion comes up and swirls around, but when it settles down, if you can pinpoint the specific issue that is upsetting you. then you can figure out one practical little baby step that can move you to a whole new place.

After two years of dealing with our situation I can now see positives. One of them is having W in my life as well as in Z's. Z does not do male friendships well. When I met him, he literally had a harem of girlfriends (some sexual, some not) that were all meeting different needs. I suppose what happened was I was able to meet 80% of his needs, so most of the others fell away, but he still needs W for the other 20%. She is pretty much his only real, deep, quality friend. She is an amazing person and very respectful of my relationship with Z, as I try to be of her relationship with him. I think our relationship would be less rich without her. Maybe our whole relationship would be missing dessert.

Another positive is connecting with this forum. Because of my personal blog, I participate in marriage forums, but the quality of discussion and the emotional intelligence which generally exists in this forum far exceeds anything I have found anywhere else. I think to be successful in poly (in whatever capacity) pushes us all to become the very best we can be in relationship. So I would like to give a big thumbs-up to all of us, and a thank you to whoever is responsible for setting up and sustaining this forum.


Sage

 

[SchrodingersCat]

On the plus side, I think my wife and I have a much deeper emotional connection because we have had to deal with the hard stuff, the tough decisions, and all the mundane bits of life that get in the way of just having fun.

I think this is an important point. It's easy to love someone when you have no responsibilities together. When a couple has to deal with each other's shit, knows how bad it smells, and still chooses to love each other and work on the relationship, that's when you know you really have something valuable.

So maybe it would be helpful for those of you whose husbands have other, carefree relationships, to remember that even though it's no fun to do the dirty work, you're the one he's spending his life with, putting up with your shit (because you know you have it too), and coming home to at the end of it all.

Some relationships naturally suit a prescribed secondary model. Flirty, fun, almost like a mini vacation. Not everyone's secondary relationship is that relaxed, as everyone builds their relationships differently.

Mono people obviously don't call their relationships primary and secondary, they just have "relationships." Yet, some mono relationships are more committed, with shared responsibilities such as children, finances, household responsibilities. Other mono relationships are more casual, just fun and partying.

Then you bring these same relationship styles into a poly context, and they acquire these distinctions as "secondary" and "primary." But I suspect that these are just formalisms of something that already happens in mono relationships.

 

[Ariakas]

Then you bring these same relationship styles into a poly context, and they acquire these distinctions as "secondary" and "primary." But I suspect that these are just formalisms of something that already happens in mono relationships.

Good point s-cat....