Feeling insecure

Sounds really weird, I don't have experience with this dynamics then.

Does your partner have a problem with sex in general? Like not being able to talk about it? Or admitting to himself that he's sexually attracted to someone?
Sounds kind of like he might.

Does he have a desire to open up to emotions, and to learn how to communicate them? The trouble is, if he doesn't, there is not much you can do.

Was him being emotionally shut down never a problem in the relationship before?
You chose this man. If you didn't mind earlier, there is probably something you "get out" of him being how he is. Maybe you admired his seeming stability, or maybe you have trouble listening to people about their emotions yourself, or maybe it is familiar to you because your father was that way, or something completely different. Do you know what the "benefit" is for you?
 
Sounds really weird, I don't have experience with this dynamics then.

I know what you mean. First hand.

Does your partner have a problem with sex in general? Like not being able to talk about it? Or admitting to himself that he's sexually attracted to someone?
Sounds kind of like he might.

Yes he does. He had a lot of hangups about sex. Overcame some, others remain boundaries we don't cross.

Does he have a desire to open up to emotions, and to learn how to communicate them? The trouble is, if he doesn't, there is not much you can do.

I think he does, but he has no idea how to go about doing it. Some moments, with conversation I can get him to talk about things. Other times he shuts me off if it is too difficult for him. In hindsight, the "break off" was that. He shut me out because I'd touched something he couldn't talk about.

Was him being emotionally shut down never a problem in the relationship before?

Yes, it has been, on and off, but me being sensitive to behavior helps. So if there is something he can't verbalize, I can often sense it and initiate a conversation. Which sometimes helps. Other times, if speaking is not important, it slides. Communication is not perfect, as I used to take for granted being part of a couple, but he does try to speak more and does seem to want to overcome this.

You chose this man. If you didn't mind earlier, there is probably something you "get out" of him being how he is. Maybe you admired his seeming stability, or maybe you have trouble listening to people about their emotions yourself, or maybe it is familiar to you because your father was that way, or something completely different. Do you know what the "benefit" is for you?

He understands me. Probably as deeply as I do him, even if he doesn't verbalize it. We have a space that is extremely comfortable and, surprisingly rich emotionally given that one side almost never verbalizes them. He fits in our home, adores our son (that's mutual). He grounds me so thoroughly that situations that would normally be stressful for me are a breeze when he is with me. My father is irrelevant to this. He was and wasn't like him in many ways.

I don't have trouble listening to people about their emotions. I have trouble with people going on and on about random nonsense clutter - which I tend to listen attentively and then get a head freeze from all the garbage. He is not like that. He lives in his head for the most part. Like me. Though he also keeps his emotions shut there, unlike me. We converse superbly though. Have similar opinions on many things that matter to us, understand how each other's brain works when analyzing something (not necessarily always agreeing), so it sort of gets really interesting to pick something apart and think it through.
 
OK, thanks for clarifying! You two only have a 6 year age gap! When one is in their 30s, that's no big deal. I thought he was barely post adolescent.

However he does have less relationship experience than you? Although you said he has dated... but just hasn't had intercourse?

What is this about India? Are you both in India? Being from the US, I do not have first hand experience around Indian approaches to dating and marriage, but have known and worked with or for first generation Indian-Americans. I have found them to be much more socially conservative. Are you a native Indian yourself?

I hear you downplaying your insecurities around this woman he was interested in, but in your OP you said her body was surely better than yours (since you had a baby), and it was driving you crazy. Also you said you feared she was "way more perfect" for him than you are, and you feared being forgotten.

I hear that you're upset about his deceptions, changes of mind, and going silent on media when you expected to hear from him. There is a lot of grey area for you both around "polyamory" or whatever it is you want to call it. He was uncomfortable about his feelings for the new woman, and probably didn't feel able to give you a clear play by play about what was going on. This is actually very common with people new to poly.

You also don't seem quite clear about how you feel about him seeing other people, whether it is merely sexual, or a deeper love relationship.

Adding to the mess is the fact that you two are in a long distance relationship. Being apart is hard. And of course, texting isn't ideal, as compared to face to face.

You've got your work cut out for you. You could try reading at the morethantwo website. Or get the book of that name, and/or the book Opening Up. They will help you see the bigger picture of the dynamics at play, and to learn how to cope and thrive in a poly or mono/poly relationship.

Generally laying down "rules" around what one's partner can or can't do with their OSOs doesn't work. You can however, create and enforce boundaries for yourself, what you will and will not feel comfortable with, and accept.

How would you like to proceed now? What can you do to make this transitional time (marriage? monogamy? poly? long distance or moving closer together, or living together? co-parenting? etc) easier and less stressful? If you two lived closer together I'd recommend couples' counseling. Can your Bf get individual counseling so he is more in touch with his feelings?
 
He had a lot of hangups about sex. Overcame some, others remain boundaries we don't cross.

Well, this is a big problem, that surely impacted his behavior and lack of communication around the Other Woman. One really can't "let things slide" in poly. Approaches to dating and sex with others must be examined and negotiated very clearly and openly. If he felt shame and guilt about his attraction to the Other Woman, it probably led to him feeling not worthy of you, and offering to bow out of being in a relationship with you.


... me being sensitive to behavior helps. So if there is something he can't verbalize, I can often sense it and initiate a conversation. Which sometimes helps. Other times, if speaking is not important, it slides. Communication is not perfect, as I used to take for granted being part of a couple, but he does try to speak more and does seem to want to overcome this.

Well, let's hope you two can progress from him "seeming" to want to communicate better, to actually being willing and ABLE to do so.

I don't have trouble listening to people about their emotions. I have trouble with people going on and on about random nonsense clutter - which I tend to listen attentively and then get a head freeze from all the garbage. He is not like that.

So, you mean he enjoys "small talk?" Some people don't think small talk is "garbage." It can be enjoyable. Perhaps he wanted a vacation from your seriousness with the Other Woman? Does he have platonic friends he can goof around with? You said, Bf and OW had "many interests in common." Does this seem like a threat to you?

I really want to know how you two are making this LDR work, being in different cities, or maybe different countries, him living with his conservative parents, etc. Do you plan to move to his city soon? Is there any urgency on either of your parts to actually be together geographically?
 
Issues that I see and sense, here. Mind you, OP, take this input in the sense that I'm pointing at something with a raised eyebrow, and if the thing I noticed is a valid thing, it isn't a HUGE thing, just something to keep an eye on, in my opinion, k?

I think that your introversion and your character is such that you have very low patience with other people's human processes. You come across as impatient with others. Unforgiving. You are like a small step somewhere on the scale that leads to "I am superior to you and have contempt for you" in your tone. Not to other posters or bf specifically, to other humans in general. But if you let this bleed into your view of your bf when you feel frustration with him, it can lead to a bad road. It's fine to be frustrated with him and a situation, but try to check yourself if you get too cold and judgy, because the manner in which you explained his behavior, and your tendencies, comes off as though you feel superior. It's fine for you to be who and how you are. But it doesn't make you better than everyone, or better than him.

Like my interpretation of the feeling behind your message is you want him to cut the crap and deal with you straight, and you don't have patience for the fact that he was confused. It's ok for him to be confused. Maybe he's got a process. He doesn't have the life experience to be where you're at and you know that. Try to be patient. And it's ok for you to be frustrated...just try not to let it become contemptuous. I got the feel of that in your tone and I think you may be prone to viewing other people that way.

Alright enough of that.

I think he likely acted that way because he's been indoctrinated into such strong social norms that he's got a hard time thinking outside of that box, despite your assurances that it's perfectly ok to do so. Polyamory scares him. He's super mono-normative in his thinking. So he freaked a bit because he didn't comprehend (probably still does not) how to take his interest in this other woman as anything but a threat to the love he's got for you.

You understood that more clearly than him, and instead of letting him process through to his own conclusion, you jumped to "I totally understand this problem, here is how you solve it." Unfortunately...emotional confusion doesn't always respond to that particular logic-antibiotic.

He was scared because even though you gave him permission to be poly, and it might even be a good idea for him to have a bit more sexual experience in his life...he only REALLY, on deep and genuine levels, understands how to process things as monogamy, or a transition from one relationship to the next. He doesn't truly get how you can give your love to more than one. And maybe he just isn't wired for it. Some people just ARE monogamous. So he's all confused, because he likes that gal but doesn't want to give you up, and you're like "If you're gonna poly, then poly right and if you're gonna mono, then stop trying to poly!" It was too much to try and process and he shut down, which then upset you because there was radio silence and no way to know if he'd followed your orders or went off the reservation...until he broke it off with her and now all is well.

Oh, and interestingly, are you familiar with the concept of "solo poly" and the "relationship escalator?" I think that poly or mono, you've kind of embraced the solo part (I am solo poly myself) and rejected for the most part, the "relationship escalator" (as have I, though for different reasons than you)...these are some convenient labels that might help you define your position. After I got out of my marriage and started dating, I had a difficult time because I wanted real relationships, with meaning and emotional bonds, if I was going to have anything at all...not casual flings. But I did NOT want to get in one where my partner thought that "serious" means moving in, getting married, picking out china and having babies. I'm over it, done that, no more thankyouverymuch. Well it turns out...solo poly works perfectly for me.

I think that it might be helpful to you and your boyfriend to discuss, outside of the confusing context of him being emotionally interested in another woman, whether he is even capable of being ethically polyamorous or whether he is at heart simply a monogamous dude who developed an interest in another woman. If he isn't able to process loving more than one woman at a time, no amount of you saying "it's fine, really, do whatever you want" is going to make it healthy or ok for him. Maybe getting a solid handle on his nature and how he needs to operate in relationships will be good for both of you before you commit any further.

Congrats on finding such a good match though, when you had pretty much given up on it, and I send my sincerest best wishes for a bright future in your general direction!
 
I think that your introversion and your character is such that you have very low patience with other people's human processes. You come across as impatient with others. Unforgiving. You are like a small step somewhere on the scale that leads to "I am superior to you and have contempt for you" in your tone.

This is true and deliberate and something I'm not likely to fix. It works very well as a barrier to unnecessary chatter and clutter.

Not to other posters or bf specifically, to other humans in general. But if you let this bleed into your view of your bf when you feel frustration with him, it can lead to a bad road...it doesn't make you better than everyone, or better than him.

Nah. I like him. And I'm not all that good.

Like my interpretation of the feeling behind your message is you want him to cut the crap and deal with you straight, and you don't have patience for the fact that he was confused. It's ok for him to be confused. Maybe he's got a process. He doesn't have the life experience to be where you're at and you know that. Try to be patient.

It is very very rare for me to overreact to anything. This may appear snobbish or superior, but it is simply statement of fact. I am usually thoroughly grounded in any situation - a side effect of a life of many challenges, wide experiences (sex and beyond). I don't rattle easy. Me freaking out this bad hasn't happened in over a decade. But when a confusion is causing him+her+me distress, and the issue is clearly visible to me, even if not to him, I think it is okay to make an exception and say I need this now, whether it is elegant process or not. I was a basket case. I didn't know where I stood, where he stood, what was going on with us, whether he even loved me anymore or was simply insisting out of commitment... Both our work was suffering, my son wasn't getting the attention he deserves. The woman had issues of her own, and being someone's second choice would and did cause her great insecurity. He himself was overstretched and way out of his depth.

I think he likely acted that way because he's been indoctrinated into such strong social norms that he's got a hard time thinking outside of that box, despite your assurances that it's perfectly ok to do so. Polyamory scares him. He's super mono-normative in his thinking. So he freaked a bit because he didn't comprehend (probably still does not) how to take his interest in this other woman as anything but a threat to the love he's got for you.

I think so too.

You understood that more clearly than him, and instead of letting him process through to his own conclusion, you jumped to "I totally understand this problem, here is how you solve it." Unfortunately...emotional confusion doesn't always respond to that particular logic-antibiotic.

I am in another city. If he didn't agree with me, there was no way I could make him do anything. Also, even though I stated my stand strongly, I didn't actually MAKE him do it. But when a lot of immature choices keep escalating, sometimes it is useful to simply say "Halt now. Grow up. These are real people you are playing with." I am not being superior, he describes what he did in far less polite terms. He could see the harm he was doing, but attempts to fix anything were making it worse.

He was scared because even though you gave him permission to be poly, and it might even be a good idea for him to have a bit more sexual experience in his life...he only REALLY, on deep and genuine levels, understands how to process things as monogamy, or a transition from one relationship to the next. He doesn't truly get how you can give your love to more than one. And maybe he just isn't wired for it. Some people just ARE monogamous. So he's all confused, because he likes that gal but doesn't want to give you up, and you're like "If you're gonna poly, then poly right and if you're gonna mono, then stop trying to poly!" It was too much to try and process and he shut down, which then upset you because there was radio silence and no way to know if he'd followed your orders or went off the reservation...until he broke it off with her and now all is well.

We're still working our way through this. Just breaking off with her doesn't flip a switch. In fact, given that my issue wasn't her, all that breaking off did was stopped the distress everyone was going through and gave him some space to orient himself so that we could work through the hurt between us. It is improving. The my visit there will do us a world of good.

Oh, and interestingly, are you familiar with the concept of "solo poly" and the "relationship escalator?" I think that poly or mono, you've kind of embraced the solo part (I am solo poly myself) and rejected for the most part, the "relationship escalator" (as have I, though for different reasons than you)...these are some convenient labels that might help you define your position. After I got out of my marriage and started dating, I had a difficult time because I wanted real relationships, with meaning and emotional bonds, if I was going to have anything at all...not casual flings. But I did NOT want to get in one where my partner thought that "serious" means moving in, getting married, picking out china and having babies. I'm over it, done that, no more thankyouverymuch. Well it turns out...solo poly works perfectly for me.

I found this forum distressed and needing a place to talk and discovered that what we'd agreed to could count as polyamory that night. Still new to terms. Now finding out.

I think that it might be helpful to you and your boyfriend to discuss, outside of the confusing context of him being emotionally interested in another woman, whether he is even capable of being ethically polyamorous or whether he is at heart simply a monogamous dude who developed an interest in another woman. If he isn't able to process loving more than one woman at a time, no amount of you saying "it's fine, really, do whatever you want" is going to make it healthy or ok for him. Maybe getting a solid handle on his nature and how he needs to operate in relationships will be good for both of you before you commit any further.

Probably some time in the future. My sensing of his excitement then was that he wanted it. Since then he seems completely disinterested. On initiating a dialogue, he says he is not interested anymore. I think once we are on a more solid footing, and if there seems to be a suitable moment, we could perhaps discuss this. Right now, i seem to be it for him.

Congrats on finding such a good match though, when you had pretty much given up on it, and I send my sincerest best wishes for a bright future in your general direction!

This is one thing I got really lucky on. Left to me, we'd never even have met, let alone got to this point. I simply was not interested. And yet he was exactly what I needed. Even now, some days I am astonished. We are also quite different in personalities. He is outgoing, very social. I am prickly and remote. In intimate relationship, I am more engaging, he can be remote. Yet we somehow are what the other needs best.
 
How would you like to proceed now? What can you do to make this transitional time (marriage? monogamy? poly? long distance or moving closer together, or living together? co-parenting? etc) easier and less stressful? If you two lived closer together I'd recommend couples' counseling. Can your Bf get individual counseling so he is more in touch with his feelings?

We are making more effort to be together. At some point he plans to move in. Right now it is difficult with him needing to be there for job and me not able to relocate easily (reasons not mentioned here). We could try counseling if we are unable to process this. It is still a bit raw from the intensity and speed with which it started, devastated and ended. Right now we just need to be together again. We will know better after this trip when we meet. Long distance can be tough when something like this happens.
 
Update

I did visit his city and lived with his family. It was very good and raised some troubling questions at the same time. On one hand, the very good part was that there is absolutely no doubt of his love for and commitment to us (me and son). On the other, with something like this in the recent past, we had problems with communication and feeling comfortable sexually. His difficulties with communicating and hang ups about sex didn't help.

We had a lot of problems finding enough privacy for the grounding we needed with each other given that this is a traditional family and we didn't have a bedroom to ourselves. To talk, to be. In other ways, this allowed us to put sex and intimacy on hold and experience BEING together generally and experience what our relationship is beyond that and it is beautiful. I really liked his family, though it got exhausting after a while. Luckily we were able to have a breather for a day or two and it was good again.

He is visiting me in a few days, which will help us find the space for us as well. We are both seeing it as a long overdue and much needed opportunity to be "ourselves" as we are "normally".

I guess we no longer qualify as "poly" since while we are open in theory, in practice it has not manifested successfully or there is much intention for it. But I like the forum anyway, so I count the mental openness to the possibility a qualification to hang out here.

Love you guys. This is a fantastic space for some real and necessary talking. :)
 
No problem; as far as I'm concerned, you're always welcome here, and always will be.
 
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