It's a Texlahoma Story
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GirlFromTexlahoma
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I did end up canceling...And feeling guilty about it, of course 
I begged off with the sick dog excuse, which was actually true!!!, but I left out the fact that said dog had a perfectly competent Daddy who would have been home to watch her. Honestly, I don't think I would have been very good company tonight.
Dag did text back. Sometimes I think I subconsciously want to stay in touch with him just because he continually pisses me off, and it reminds me that I did the right thing breaking up with him! He bragged about his kids (which I was happy to hear, honestly), bragged about work, bragged about his running... Then vanished when I brought up ~my~ life, an innocuous mention of something at work.
Anyway, I had a bone deep need to go running, and I did. I felt like I needed to reclaim running, somehow. That's MY thing, not his. I've been running since I was 19, and Dag... He always said he wanted to start running with me, but never did. Then his wife helped organize some 5k charity thing, and he was all about training for it. It's just one more fucking thing where time with me wasn't worth the effort, but something else was.
See, this is the thing... He's supposedly having a hard time transitioning to friendship from a relationship, but seriously? What relationship? We were friends, we had fun hanging out, we had great sex, but he put ZERO effort into building a relationship. I was the one making all the effort. And when I had completely exhausted myself trying to make it work, and gave up, I'm the bad guy who ended it???
Yeah, still angry. But - he told me his latest 5k time. And I beat his time despite his having six inches on me (and that whole testosterone advantage). And I did it off road, in mud. So there.
I begged off with the sick dog excuse, which was actually true!!!, but I left out the fact that said dog had a perfectly competent Daddy who would have been home to watch her. Honestly, I don't think I would have been very good company tonight. Dag did text back. Sometimes I think I subconsciously want to stay in touch with him just because he continually pisses me off, and it reminds me that I did the right thing breaking up with him! He bragged about his kids (which I was happy to hear, honestly), bragged about work, bragged about his running... Then vanished when I brought up ~my~ life, an innocuous mention of something at work.
Anyway, I had a bone deep need to go running, and I did. I felt like I needed to reclaim running, somehow. That's MY thing, not his. I've been running since I was 19, and Dag... He always said he wanted to start running with me, but never did. Then his wife helped organize some 5k charity thing, and he was all about training for it. It's just one more fucking thing where time with me wasn't worth the effort, but something else was.
See, this is the thing... He's supposedly having a hard time transitioning to friendship from a relationship, but seriously? What relationship? We were friends, we had fun hanging out, we had great sex, but he put ZERO effort into building a relationship. I was the one making all the effort. And when I had completely exhausted myself trying to make it work, and gave up, I'm the bad guy who ended it???
Yeah, still angry. But - he told me his latest 5k time. And I beat his time despite his having six inches on me (and that whole testosterone advantage). And I did it off road, in mud. So there.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Magdlyn you are terrible ... And let's face it, if it had been six inches, I wouldn't have been so obsessed and moony over him for so long
I'm feeling a lot better today. Pushing myself on my runs helps so much with my mood and energy levels. I tend to forget that and slack off
Things with Andy have been awesome lately. I so rarely bother to post about our relationship... It's stable and happy and drama free, requires very little processing. But it's just... Wonderful. I am unbelievably lucky to have a husband who is my best friend and soul mate. I can talk to him about everything and nothing, for hours and hours on end, and never be bored. Plus he gives the best hugs ever.
I rescheduled with the okc dude I was supposed to meet last night. I completely expected him to be annoyed at my flakiness and move on, but instead he texted to see how my sick doggy was doing (awwww) and we chatted all night.
There is one other "maybe" from okc, we've been texting for a few days but haven't talked yet about meeting. He seems really cool but... He didn't list his height in his profile!! Which means he's short and insecure about it, right? I'm short too - 5'4" - so I don't need a guy to be 6' tall. But there is such a thing as too short. Hmmm.
Right now I'm just looking for a fwb - someone I like and trust, for hanging out naked and not. Of course, that's what I've looked for every damn time I have jumped back into dating, and I have never been able to keep things that casual with anyone I really like
Going out for another run this afternoon, then up to the lake for the weekend with Andy and the dogs. It'll be a working trip - boat maintenance, lawn mowing, bagging up leaves - but at least we will have perfect fall weather!
... And let's face it, if it had been six inches, I wouldn't have been so obsessed and moony over him for so long I'm feeling a lot better today. Pushing myself on my runs helps so much with my mood and energy levels. I tend to forget that and slack off
Things with Andy have been awesome lately. I so rarely bother to post about our relationship... It's stable and happy and drama free, requires very little processing. But it's just... Wonderful. I am unbelievably lucky to have a husband who is my best friend and soul mate. I can talk to him about everything and nothing, for hours and hours on end, and never be bored. Plus he gives the best hugs ever.
I rescheduled with the okc dude I was supposed to meet last night. I completely expected him to be annoyed at my flakiness and move on, but instead he texted to see how my sick doggy was doing (awwww) and we chatted all night.
There is one other "maybe" from okc, we've been texting for a few days but haven't talked yet about meeting. He seems really cool but... He didn't list his height in his profile!! Which means he's short and insecure about it, right? I'm short too - 5'4" - so I don't need a guy to be 6' tall. But there is such a thing as too short. Hmmm.
Right now I'm just looking for a fwb - someone I like and trust, for hanging out naked and not. Of course, that's what I've looked for every damn time I have jumped back into dating, and I have never been able to keep things that casual with anyone I really like
Going out for another run this afternoon, then up to the lake for the weekend with Andy and the dogs. It'll be a working trip - boat maintenance, lawn mowing, bagging up leaves - but at least we will have perfect fall weather!
So what's your plan?Right now I'm just looking for a fwb - someone I like and trust, for hanging out naked and not. Of course, that's what I've looked for every damn time I have jumped back into dating, and I have never been able to keep things that casual with anyone I really like
Will you judge fwb people by long-term relating creteria now? Will you back out from the relationship a few months in before it becomes serious?
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
My plan... is... um... well... plan, huh, yeah should have one of those...
Does "get laid" count as a plan
(I don't mean to discount the fun sexy times I have with my husband at all - we are just so similar sexually. We both prefer to be the object of desire, the more submissive partner. Right now I'm missing the kind of sex that I have with someone whose sexuality complements mine, rather than matches it.)
I definitely don't intend to cut relationships short, or avoid emotions, or anything like that. Mainly I want to keep in mind that not everyone thinks "I love you" means "please meet my parents soon"
I honestly never, ever realized that before joining this forum - I never knew there were people who didn't equate love and commitment with entanglement. Knowing that helps, because it makes me (slightly) less likely to lose my mind when a guy says he cares but doesn't then make an effort to increase our time together. When that happened, I always thought that either the guy was lying or it was somehow ~my~ job to get us further up the relationship escalator. Now I can say, ok, maybe he does care, but he's happy seeing me once a week.
And I know that if ~I~ want to meet somebody's friends, spend more time with them, etc, then I need to speak up. Because not everyone will automatically realize that my "I love you" is a request for those things. Maybe I'll get those things, maybe not, but at least I'll be able to make a (semi)rational decision instead of crying because my partner isn't a mind reader.
The hard part is knowing that a lot of relationships will end, and they won't always end well
I wish I had a sure fire plan to keep former FWBs/boyfriends as friends.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Oh - and Anna Louise is single again. The rich old flame from several states away did not last any longer than her other engagements have
Andy keeps saying he wants to see her... But he hasn't made much effort in that direction. I think maybe he's getting tired of the whiplash that comes with trying to keep up with what Anna wants.
I don't say that, though... I just nod and make sympathetic noises. Seems to work, we spent a good portion of the 90 minute drive chatting about it, and he doesn't seem annoyed/offended/any more stressed than he was before he told me!
Andy keeps saying he wants to see her... But he hasn't made much effort in that direction. I think maybe he's getting tired of the whiplash that comes with trying to keep up with what Anna wants.
I don't say that, though... I just nod and make sympathetic noises. Seems to work, we spent a good portion of the 90 minute drive chatting about it, and he doesn't seem annoyed/offended/any more stressed than he was before he told me!
jayblue122
Member
Have you come across the term Demisexual?
That's how I identify. I need feels of some sort (friendship at the bare minimum but in reality I need to like the person) bond to feel any sexual attraction towards a person. Pure physical attraction is not something I have ever felt.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
I'm sitting on a chaise lounge at the lake, drinking a beer and throwing the tennis ball for the dogs. Life is good
Well, except for the Harvester Ants marching back and forth across the patio. I don't want to kill them, because they are fascinating creatures. But I really wish they could find somewhere to forage besides RIGHT HERE.
I can never decide if demisexual applies to me...
I don't like casual sex, and I don't have any desire to have sex outside of a long term relationship of some kind. But I do find random people sexy, in an "if we relationshipped, I would totally fuck you" way. I don't need to know somebody well to think they're sexy - I just need to know them well to actually have good sex.
For example - I saw this incredibly hot guy at the running trails yesterday. And I totally spun a million fantasies in my head about him. But they all involved us hanging out, becoming friends, falling in love, and THEN having sex. The idea of having sex without that other stuff does nothing for me.
Some people I know who identify as demi don't feel any attraction until they know someone well, and that's definitely not me... I am attracted to people all the time. I just want to relationship with them as well as fuck them.
Well, except for the Harvester Ants marching back and forth across the patio. I don't want to kill them, because they are fascinating creatures. But I really wish they could find somewhere to forage besides RIGHT HERE.
I can never decide if demisexual applies to me...
I don't like casual sex, and I don't have any desire to have sex outside of a long term relationship of some kind. But I do find random people sexy, in an "if we relationshipped, I would totally fuck you" way. I don't need to know somebody well to think they're sexy - I just need to know them well to actually have good sex.
For example - I saw this incredibly hot guy at the running trails yesterday. And I totally spun a million fantasies in my head about him. But they all involved us hanging out, becoming friends, falling in love, and THEN having sex. The idea of having sex without that other stuff does nothing for me.
Some people I know who identify as demi don't feel any attraction until they know someone well, and that's definitely not me... I am attracted to people all the time. I just want to relationship with them as well as fuck them.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
WORM: Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing!
I'm a competitive person. Sometimes that serves me well - making straight A's all through school, giving 110% at my job, pushing myself to run farther and faster, I credit my competitive streak for those things. When I don't have a "rival", I get complacent. I'm lazy about setting goals for myself. Give me someone/something to beat, though, and it's on.
Obviously this worm is unhelpful in other situations. Like the three years in high school I spent being dangerously skinny, just because all my friends were dieting. I was definitely the best at dieting, but weighing 90 lbs and surviving on 500 calories a day was a hollow victory.
And poly. Not so helpful in poly, my need to turn everything into a competition.
Thankfully, I am not big on abstract concepts, so I have never felt the need to be The Most Loved. It's too hard to keep score on things like that Plus, over the years, I've found ways to reframe relationships in my mind so they are NOT competitions. Andy has always had close female friends, Steph and others, so I've had to learn to deal. It helps to look at how DIFFERENT each relationship is from the others. I would never compare my 10k run time to someone's time in the 500 m dash, so why should I compare ~wife~ to ~friend-girl~?
That works 95% of the time. I still get rushes of competitive energy over specific things ... Stephanie losing a bunch of weight makes me hit the gym more. But mostly it's fine. I do much better with it if I don't hear too much about Andy's ladies. Specifics and details give me something to beat. Andy has learned this the hard way ... Talk about the meal Steph cooked, and come home the next day to find me proving myself in the kitchen. She made a four course meal? Mine is six courses!
Like most of my poly problems, this one is much harder in my other relationships. You'd think I could do the "it's like comparing apples and oranges!" thing there, too, but ... only sometimes. It's really hard for me to know that, say, my partner and his wife have sex 3 times a week. If only see him twice a week, how the hell do I beat that? Again, it's fine if I don't hear specifics, but I've never had any other partner do as well as Andy at knowing what will set off my competitive freak outs.
It helps just to write this out, though. I can look back and see that most of the times I thought I was envious or jealous, I was actually just feeling that "must win" thing. Time, for example. I can be perfectly content seeing a boyfriend once a week... Until I learn he's spending two days a week with another partner. And then I NEED THREE DAYS DAMNIT. Except, I don't. I don't even want that, I don't even have 3 days a week to see him. I just hate that someone else is winning the time war.
My worst fear in poly relationships isn't being replaced or abandoned. It's being kept around but stuck in second place.
I'm a competitive person. Sometimes that serves me well - making straight A's all through school, giving 110% at my job, pushing myself to run farther and faster, I credit my competitive streak for those things. When I don't have a "rival", I get complacent. I'm lazy about setting goals for myself. Give me someone/something to beat, though, and it's on.
Obviously this worm is unhelpful in other situations. Like the three years in high school I spent being dangerously skinny, just because all my friends were dieting. I was definitely the best at dieting, but weighing 90 lbs and surviving on 500 calories a day was a hollow victory.
And poly. Not so helpful in poly, my need to turn everything into a competition.
Thankfully, I am not big on abstract concepts, so I have never felt the need to be The Most Loved. It's too hard to keep score on things like that
Plus, over the years, I've found ways to reframe relationships in my mind so they are NOT competitions. Andy has always had close female friends, Steph and others, so I've had to learn to deal. It helps to look at how DIFFERENT each relationship is from the others. I would never compare my 10k run time to someone's time in the 500 m dash, so why should I compare ~wife~ to ~friend-girl~? That works 95% of the time. I still get rushes of competitive energy over specific things ... Stephanie losing a bunch of weight makes me hit the gym more. But mostly it's fine. I do much better with it if I don't hear too much about Andy's ladies. Specifics and details give me something to beat. Andy has learned this the hard way ... Talk about the meal Steph cooked, and come home the next day to find me proving myself in the kitchen. She made a four course meal? Mine is six courses!
Like most of my poly problems, this one is much harder in my other relationships. You'd think I could do the "it's like comparing apples and oranges!" thing there, too, but ... only sometimes. It's really hard for me to know that, say, my partner and his wife have sex 3 times a week. If only see him twice a week, how the hell do I beat that? Again, it's fine if I don't hear specifics, but I've never had any other partner do as well as Andy at knowing what will set off my competitive freak outs.
It helps just to write this out, though. I can look back and see that most of the times I thought I was envious or jealous, I was actually just feeling that "must win" thing. Time, for example. I can be perfectly content seeing a boyfriend once a week... Until I learn he's spending two days a week with another partner. And then I NEED THREE DAYS DAMNIT. Except, I don't. I don't even want that, I don't even have 3 days a week to see him. I just hate that someone else is winning the time war.
My worst fear in poly relationships isn't being replaced or abandoned. It's being kept around but stuck in second place.
Oh that seems to be a huge factor in why you don't want to date partnered guys.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Yes... More specifically, why I don't want to date partnered guys who talk endlessly about their wives or girlfriends. I really don't care what someone does when they're not with me, as long as I'm getting the amount of contact I need. But when someone expects me to spend a ton of time hearing about their other relationships... It just triggers all those competitive feelings.
I know it's silly, but it feels to me like the guy is purposely framing it as a competition, letting me know the score, the rankings. Like, why would you tell me you did X with so-and-so unless you wanted me to get jealous and competitive??? But then, when I do react that way, and try to get my own chance to do X, I usually get shot down. So it starts to feel like the guy is just telling me all this stuff so I'll know where I stand, know I'm not as important.
You asked about my plan a while back. Do you know what I'd like to have as my plan? To date, meet people - maybe they'll become fwb, maybe long term loves, who knows? To stay in each relationship while it makes us both happy, and then change or end things if it starts to make one or both of us miserable. That's really the plan I want...
And I don't feel like I'm "allowed" to have that
Somewhere along the way, I internalized this idea that I have to justify breaking up with people, and that "this relationship makes me feel like shit" isn't a good enough reason. It's like I have to objectively prove that somebody is a bad boyfriend before I can leave. But most of the things that have made me want to end relationships in the past are things many (most?) poly people are fine with. So I feel like I can't leave because of those reasons, I have to push and learn and somehow make myself ok with things.
For example, say I start dating a guy who's theoretically poly but currently single. Six months down the road, he meets somebody new, falls for them, wants me to hang out with them and talks about them non stop. I explain how uncomfortable that makes me, but he either doesn't change, or is obviously unhappy keeping his relationships completely separate. In that situation, I'd like to be able to just break up. Say, "hey, this isn't working for me anymore, let's just be platonic friends." But I don't feel like I'm allowed. I feel like I have to stick around and be miserable. Because not wanting to deal with his new relationship is an unacceptable reason for breaking up. Other people deal with it, I have to suffer through it too.
That's where I am right now. I'd like to go out and date and have fun, but I'm terrified of getting trapped in a situation that makes me unhappy and feeling too guilty to leave.
Spork
Active member
Thanks for sharing this stuff.
Been thinking about things in my head and world and feels I've got on certain things, and "am I allowed" to feel/do/think whatever for my own reasons because "other people say"...
Sometimes how others say and do doesn't matter. We need what we need for the reasons that matter to US.
I would engineer an ok-ness by disclaimering, but that's just me. Like in early stages I'd tell them "Look I've realized in these situations, I feel like this. And I don't like it. So if we encounter this, and it happens, I'll let you know, but if you cannot respect my needs in this area, I need YOU to know I will have to move on. OK?"
Like I do with the whole "Hey if we have sex it's possible I might get feels, and I can't turn them off even if we're not building a Thing together, but it's not a big deal...but if feels freak you out, let's not do naked stuff, I'd rather not risk the hurts if it's all the same to you." That's a disclaimer I started doing, and if I had to date again I'd still be doing it.
Yeah, upfront honesty is weird when dating in the normal world with normal folks. And it might make some potential partners spook off. But I'd rather have them hear truth and spook, than continue until I'm all invested and stuff, and it comes up and they spook. Or I do. Whatever.
Been thinking about things in my head and world and feels I've got on certain things, and "am I allowed" to feel/do/think whatever for my own reasons because "other people say"...
Sometimes how others say and do doesn't matter. We need what we need for the reasons that matter to US.
I would engineer an ok-ness by disclaimering, but that's just me. Like in early stages I'd tell them "Look I've realized in these situations, I feel like this. And I don't like it. So if we encounter this, and it happens, I'll let you know, but if you cannot respect my needs in this area, I need YOU to know I will have to move on. OK?"
Like I do with the whole "Hey if we have sex it's possible I might get feels, and I can't turn them off even if we're not building a Thing together, but it's not a big deal...but if feels freak you out, let's not do naked stuff, I'd rather not risk the hurts if it's all the same to you." That's a disclaimer I started doing, and if I had to date again I'd still be doing it.
Yeah, upfront honesty is weird when dating in the normal world with normal folks. And it might make some potential partners spook off. But I'd rather have them hear truth and spook, than continue until I'm all invested and stuff, and it comes up and they spook. Or I do. Whatever.
Reverie
Active member
Your feelings here are, of course, completely valid, but I'd like to ask a couple of questions and raise a couple of possibilities in the spirit of exploring the issue further.
You say "talk endlessly" and "spend a ton of time"—what, to you, is a ton? I ask this because, for me, when I'm getting to know people on what could ostensibly be a date or is officially a date, sometimes it's impossible for me to tell get-to-know-me stories without either mentioning Rider or being purposefully vague to the point where it feels deceptive.
Like, I know you mentioned before that you don't want to hear a ton about the partner specifically and what she does for work, etc., etc., etc.—basically not "dishing" about their partner like they might with their besties, or trotting characteristics out to prove their partner is "cool with stuff"—that to me seems basic common sense. No one wants to hear a ton about a person they don't know and who is just a connection of someone they are just meeting. It's boring!
But talking about "what [they] did with so-and-so," that, to me, falls in the realm of sharing about oneself. Most of my adventures have been with partners or friends, and I don't see much difference between sharing tales of these adventures, mentioning they were with Rider (even if only referred to as "my partner"), and sharing similar tales, mentioning they were with platonic BFFs (even if referring to "my bestie").
Maybe if they were wacky, one-off misadventures with bare acquaintances, I'd not bother going into the "who," but most of the time, if I feel like I'm trying to let someone get to know me (and vice versa), I feel like it's normal to tell stories about stuff that's happened and who was there. I expect the same from them. Or if we are already together, I feel like it's normal to keep one another apprised of stuff that's going on in each other's lives.
Like, if I were talking to a hypothetical partner about what I did that weekend, I am the type of person who gives a fair amount of detail in all my stories (ahem, historic post lengths can testify to this), I might say, "XXXX and I went thrifting and—oh, we both found really cool shirts!—and then we went to brunch at ABC and that place had the best biscuit I've had in town, and then we hiked a cool trail in This Park (you should totally go if you haven't been...maybe we can go back together!), and then we were starving so we stopped by the farmer's market and XXXX said they knew how to make this amazing baked apple thingie when we saw how many apples were out, and it really was good! I should get the recipe!"
And, in my mind, it doesn't matter if XXXX is Rider or Oona or Mel or Perry or my cousin or a brand new friend that I'm just starting to get to know. It's just the truth of what happened over my weekend, and they'd asked how my weekend was. It's not a brag of how much cool stuff I did with another person, to rub in the face of the person who asked and make them feel competitive and jealous. If anything, it's telling them cool stuff that I now know about that maybe I can bring into their life to make them do the cool stuff too.
But this part specifically seems like there is something complicated to untangle here...
If it were me, I would answer "Why would you tell me you did X with so-and-so unless you wanted me to get jealous and competitive?" with "Because I thought we were friends as well as lovers, and friends tell friends stuff that they do."
So I wonder if maybe the reason you get shot down "when [you] do react that way [with jealousy and competition]" to hearing that stuff is some kind of blend of these factors, instead of them telling you you're not important:
1) The person can tell you only want to do X out of a sense of competition and jealousy, and they're not into tit-for-tat, so they become uncomfortable. If a person I was dating, who recently hadn't been very creative in the kitchen, suddenly got a wild hair to cook an elaborate meal directly after I told them someone else had done it, I'd feel a bit odd, like they were trying to create some sort of improved facsimile of my other friend/partner. I'd feel like they were doing it not because they wanted to (out of creativity or to please me), but because they wanted to secure their place in my life as "the one who is the best at everything"...and to me, the effort would be worth less to me if it came from a place of one-upmanship against another person than if it were a sweet gesture inspired by something more genuine. Like "partner + competitiveness = action" < "partner + generosity = same action," if that makes sense.
2) If they've just done X, maybe they want to wait a while to do it again, and would react more positively if you said, "That sounds cool—I know you just did that and probably don't want to do it again so soon, but I'd love to do that with you sometime!" Like, in one situation from my own life, Rider's ex totally "scooped" me once (coincidentally) by choosing the location (several hours away) for a weekend getaway that I'd been planning on making OUR anniversary getaway a couple of months later. We'd been planning on it but no reservations had yet been made. I was disappointed, and I know he would have gone there again if I'd really had my heart set on it, but I knew it'd be more fun for him if we went somewhere different—and anyway, I really didn't want his recent memories of being there with her to be popping up while he was there with me. While he TOTALLY would have gone there anyway (because that's the kind of subby, accommodating person he is), it would have been COMPLETELY reasonable to me if I'd asked and he'd said no.
I dunno, maybe it's none of that and they are just really being jerks and want you to make sure you know your place and purposefully fostering a spirit of competition. Only you know if you are dating the kind of people who get a rise out of making people compete over them. Some people are indeed like that! I have known a few.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
I wish I could pinpoint why some "wife stuff" bugs me and yet most of it doesn't Because most things Reverie mentioned - stories from the past, updates about the week - doesn't phase me at all. But some things... Ugh.
The part I wrote about wanting something the wife got, but feeling shot down for asking ... The only time that's happened was when Dag sent all those pictures of his weekend away with his family, then canceled our little trip. And sent pics of his wife's birthday, after ignoring mine. That just felt like a gut punch. I don't think he meant it that way. I think he was just sharing. But it did feel like, "see what I do for her? Trips? Birthdays? You don't get that stuff hahaha"
Other than that... It's really when my date/partner starts blatantly bragging on his other partner that I get cranky. I get it, they love their wife/girlfriend, they think she's the bomb. But I still feel competitive when it happens.
Telling me a complete random, out of nowhere story about how one time your wife saved a baby raccoon.
Sending me dozens of pictures of her craft projects.
Talking about how guys always stare at your wife's boobs, because they are huge.
Sending me pictures of cupcakes she baked for your kid.
Those kind of things. Things that are ... not awful... but also not relevant. At all. It's just... Why?
The real problem isn't that guys do that stuff. It isn't even that I dislike that stuff. The problem is that I don't feel comfortable saying anything, and so they keep doing it, having no idea that it's upsetting me. But I feel like I'm the one with the problem, asking to not hear those things is unfair of me, and I have to suck it up, smile, nod, act excited to hear all about what awesomeness some dude's wife is up to.
Because most things Reverie mentioned - stories from the past, updates about the week - doesn't phase me at all. But some things... Ugh. The part I wrote about wanting something the wife got, but feeling shot down for asking ... The only time that's happened was when Dag sent all those pictures of his weekend away with his family, then canceled our little trip. And sent pics of his wife's birthday, after ignoring mine. That just felt like a gut punch. I don't think he meant it that way. I think he was just sharing. But it did feel like, "see what I do for her? Trips? Birthdays? You don't get that stuff hahaha"
Other than that... It's really when my date/partner starts blatantly bragging on his other partner that I get cranky. I get it, they love their wife/girlfriend, they think she's the bomb. But I still feel competitive when it happens.
Telling me a complete random, out of nowhere story about how one time your wife saved a baby raccoon.
Sending me dozens of pictures of her craft projects.
Talking about how guys always stare at your wife's boobs, because they are huge.
Sending me pictures of cupcakes she baked for your kid.
Those kind of things. Things that are ... not awful... but also not relevant. At all. It's just... Why?
The real problem isn't that guys do that stuff. It isn't even that I dislike that stuff. The problem is that I don't feel comfortable saying anything, and so they keep doing it, having no idea that it's upsetting me. But I feel like I'm the one with the problem, asking to not hear those things is unfair of me, and I have to suck it up, smile, nod, act excited to hear all about what awesomeness some dude's wife is up to.
Reverie
Active member
Well, yeah, that is just being blatantly inconsiderate. I guess I'd interpreted the way you'd originally phrased it as you first hear that the other partner gets something, so then you ask for the same thing, and you hear a no when you ask for it. If he had a trip planned with each of his partners, and then canceled yours without rescheduling, it's perfectly logical that you feel shafted.
And, if I recall correctly, he'd lied and told you he doesn't really do birthdays, but then did something for his wife's and sent you evidence. That's total bullshit.
I'm with you on the crafts and the cupcakes and the boobs. That stuff sounds super boring to hear about when relating to someone I don't know (unless it really IS something super, super cool that relates to my own interests). But I will admit to wanting to hear ANY story about baby animals.
So is it specific to their partner, then? If it were a platonic friend and they were like, "my friend makes these crazy little miniature figurines—look at them, aren't they adorable?!" would you feel the same way?
Spork
Active member
Hm. I've talked before about how I don't feel necessarily jealous if a partner has another partner. Like I could see them together and be happy, the more I know the happier I am. But under the right circumstances, I can get jealous of NOTHING. An abstract threat. Women he MIGHT be seeing but I don't have a right to ask or know (that was the Worm King, I didn't get to know things about him. He was genius at deflection. It drove me insane.) The idea of something, real or not.
Ah but the point is... the key component isn't the competition at all. It's what I am lacking. I am not getting the time, attention, sex, whatever...that I want, from my partner, then I start thinking well, I am clearly not as good as <whatever else>.
I was literally jealous of some Civilization game, and the political debates, and his garden, when the Worm King started preferring ANYTHING ELSE to spending time with ME.
So the birthdays and trips thing, yeah TOTALLY.
But I'd also say that the on and on with stories about whatever could trip that trigger... If it feels like he is not there in that moment, WITH ME. If I felt his attention were more focused on his happy wife memories than with experiencing the now in my company, I'd probably get annoyed. Because our "us time" is...well...for us! Don't take that from me and give it to someone else, while I'm sitting right there!
At the same time though, it makes me wonder if I do this sort of thing sometimes without meaning to. I think that Zen and I just talk to one another about pretty much anything going on in our lives, just to share for the sake of sharing. At least that's what I'm trying to do. I talk about other people all the time just because I'm trying to come up with something to say and I feel like I've told all my stories, haven't seen any good movies lately, don't know what else to discuss. I don't want to just sit there being silent and boring with nothing to say.
Ah but the point is... the key component isn't the competition at all. It's what I am lacking. I am not getting the time, attention, sex, whatever...that I want, from my partner, then I start thinking well, I am clearly not as good as <whatever else>.
I was literally jealous of some Civilization game, and the political debates, and his garden, when the Worm King started preferring ANYTHING ELSE to spending time with ME.
So the birthdays and trips thing, yeah TOTALLY.
But I'd also say that the on and on with stories about whatever could trip that trigger... If it feels like he is not there in that moment, WITH ME. If I felt his attention were more focused on his happy wife memories than with experiencing the now in my company, I'd probably get annoyed. Because our "us time" is...well...for us! Don't take that from me and give it to someone else, while I'm sitting right there!
At the same time though, it makes me wonder if I do this sort of thing sometimes without meaning to. I think that Zen and I just talk to one another about pretty much anything going on in our lives, just to share for the sake of sharing. At least that's what I'm trying to do. I talk about other people all the time just because I'm trying to come up with something to say and I feel like I've told all my stories, haven't seen any good movies lately, don't know what else to discuss. I don't want to just sit there being silent and boring with nothing to say.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Wow, I have a lot to write about today...
First, thank you guys for poking and prodding at this, because it really helped me understand something about myself.
It's funny but I played this out in my head and I was like... "Noooo...well maybe...how good of a friend is it?" Which is a bizarre thought. I didn't even get it at first.
How do I explain this... If it was a casual friend, I'd interpret the guy as sending me pictures because he was *interested* in his friend's stuff. Or maybe even *impressed*. And neither of those things trigger competitive feelings at all. Just vaguely pleasant "oh that's cool" thoughts.
But if it was a super close friend (or a partner), I'd read the situation as the guy being *proud* of his friend. And that gets me all competitive. It's less "here is a thing that's neat" and more "see how awesome my person is???" It moves from being about the THING - the figurines, the cupcakes, the story - to being about the PERSON. It's a really weird subtle difference that probably exists only in my head, but there it is.
Aaaand this is the second part of it. There's something missing - it's not time or attention, though. I have never felt like any of my boyfriends were *proud* of me. Ever. Isn't that sad? I feel like Andy is proud of me. My friends. My dad. But not any of the guys I have dated since opening our marriage.
Part of that is simply that I've never dated anyone who could be "out" about our relationship to their friends and family... Or anyone whose spouse wanted much to do with me. I'm ok with that set up - but it does remove the most obvious way you can know someone is proud to be with you. Another part is that I've never had an entangled enough relationship that a guy could really see any of my accomplishments. But there were also times, with both Dag and Tyler, that I showed them or mentioned something I was very proud of - my lake house plans, the landscaping projects I'd done, getting back to running after my surgery - and I never felt like they gave a shit
I would really like to have a guy who says, Wow, good job, go you, you did awesome! Such a basic thing. The kind of thing Andy and I say almost daily, the kind of thing I hear him say to Steph and Anna - hell, it's something we say to our friends frequently. Not hearing that from boyfriends definitely hurts... And triggers the uber competitive, "what do I have to do to get noticed" feelings
First, thank you guys for poking and prodding at this, because it really helped me understand something about myself.
It's funny but I played this out in my head and I was like... "Noooo...well maybe...how good of a friend is it?" Which is a bizarre thought. I didn't even get it at first.
How do I explain this... If it was a casual friend, I'd interpret the guy as sending me pictures because he was *interested* in his friend's stuff. Or maybe even *impressed*. And neither of those things trigger competitive feelings at all. Just vaguely pleasant "oh that's cool" thoughts.
But if it was a super close friend (or a partner), I'd read the situation as the guy being *proud* of his friend. And that gets me all competitive. It's less "here is a thing that's neat" and more "see how awesome my person is???" It moves from being about the THING - the figurines, the cupcakes, the story - to being about the PERSON. It's a really weird subtle difference that probably exists only in my head, but there it is.
Aaaand this is the second part of it. There's something missing - it's not time or attention, though. I have never felt like any of my boyfriends were *proud* of me. Ever. Isn't that sad? I feel like Andy is proud of me. My friends. My dad. But not any of the guys I have dated since opening our marriage.
Part of that is simply that I've never dated anyone who could be "out" about our relationship to their friends and family... Or anyone whose spouse wanted much to do with me. I'm ok with that set up - but it does remove the most obvious way you can know someone is proud to be with you. Another part is that I've never had an entangled enough relationship that a guy could really see any of my accomplishments. But there were also times, with both Dag and Tyler, that I showed them or mentioned something I was very proud of - my lake house plans, the landscaping projects I'd done, getting back to running after my surgery - and I never felt like they gave a shit
I would really like to have a guy who says, Wow, good job, go you, you did awesome! Such a basic thing. The kind of thing Andy and I say almost daily, the kind of thing I hear him say to Steph and Anna - hell, it's something we say to our friends frequently. Not hearing that from boyfriends definitely hurts... And triggers the uber competitive, "what do I have to do to get noticed" feelings
Reverie
Active member
Aaaand this is the second part of it. There's something missing - it's not time or attention, though. I have never felt like any of my boyfriends were *proud* of me. Ever. Isn't that sad? I feel like Andy is proud of me. My friends. My dad. But not any of the guys I have dated since opening our marriage.
Part of that is simply that I've never dated anyone who could be "out" about our relationship to their friends and family... Or anyone whose spouse wanted much to do with me. I'm ok with that set up - but it does remove the most obvious way you can know someone is proud to be with you. Another part is that I've never had an entangled enough relationship that a guy could really see any of my accomplishments. But there were also times, with both Dag and Tyler, that I showed them or mentioned something I was very proud of - my lake house plans, the landscaping projects I'd done, getting back to running after my surgery - and I never felt like they gave a shit
I would really like to have a guy who says, Wow, good job, go you, you did awesome! Such a basic thing. The kind of thing Andy and I say almost daily, the kind of thing I hear him say to Steph and Anna - hell, it's something we say to our friends frequently. Not hearing that from boyfriends definitely hurts... And triggers the uber competitive, "what do I have to do to get noticed" feelings
Cool that you learned this about yourself. Maybe one way to find what you're looking for, then, is to find guys who ARE open to being out. And also, maybe, in the "sharing stuff about yourself" part of dating, see how excited and interested they actually seem to be in the positive accomplishments of yours that they find out about. One thing I've discovered about finding compatible partners (and also one of the reasons they are so DAMNED HARD TO FIND) is that compatible partners tend to like the things about me that I like about myself.
They like that I participate in X, Y, and Z hobbies. They like that I geek out over words and relationships. And that I can rock super-weird hairstyles really well and tend to eschew the norm in general. If you can find people to date who don't necessarily SHARE your favorite interests (though that can be nice too), but at least admire you for being dedicated to them, those are the kind of people who are going to be proud of you and your accomplishments.
And, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it seems most likely to me that the kind of guy who might be super proud of you and not afraid to show it is also the exact same kind of guy who might be super proud of his OTHER partners to the point where he talks them up to you, to your silent chagrin. Maybe you can turn it around in your head and picture the guy going on to his friend about all the cool stuff you told him on your date?