Which way to turn?
- Thread starter Mohegan
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redpepper
Active member
Mohegan, sometimes monogamous men think that women who are poly and have the option of being with several men at once get all giddy at the off chance that they might get to be with them. Its nothing more than them being opportunists. They just don't get it in other words. It sounds like your partners friends are experiencing this with his girlfriend. Kind of the mentality of "woo hoo, I get to touch her and maybe even fuck her and its all okay!"
I had similar experiences when I started dating again. I so loved the attention from men and mistook it for real love and respect for who I was. I got together with several people and was used. I wasn't treated like a person but an object. I was used as their conquest.
Really its up to her. She is allowing them to treat her like that. It doesn't conjure up feelings of compassion but try to find that in your heart. I know I needed that and instead got judgement and recentment from those around me. Mono came along and reminded me of my worth. I turned it around and now respect my self more, look out for real respect and love from others. Your partner treats her like a person, if you do too then she will gravitate to those that treat her well I reckon. If she is afraid to come to you then it will just perpetuate the situation and she will drift away and possibly get more hurt than perhaps she already is.
Not that you aren't treating her well also. But part of judgment and recentment is because there is a caring there. If you do care then showing tenderness and compassion might be a better bet in letting her know that. Being a safe haven might be just what she needs as she sounds rather lost. Her version of poly might be putting her there.
Karma, I don't know what your beef was with what I said but I'm glad you got something out of it. I don't necessarily say what people want to hear in all aspects of my life, but I sometimes say what they need to hear. All the rest is just bullshit and one can take it or leave it
... Such is the joy of forums.
I had similar experiences when I started dating again. I so loved the attention from men and mistook it for real love and respect for who I was. I got together with several people and was used. I wasn't treated like a person but an object. I was used as their conquest.
Really its up to her. She is allowing them to treat her like that. It doesn't conjure up feelings of compassion but try to find that in your heart. I know I needed that and instead got judgement and recentment from those around me. Mono came along and reminded me of my worth. I turned it around and now respect my self more, look out for real respect and love from others. Your partner treats her like a person, if you do too then she will gravitate to those that treat her well I reckon. If she is afraid to come to you then it will just perpetuate the situation and she will drift away and possibly get more hurt than perhaps she already is.
Not that you aren't treating her well also. But part of judgment and recentment is because there is a caring there. If you do care then showing tenderness and compassion might be a better bet in letting her know that. Being a safe haven might be just what she needs as she sounds rather lost. Her version of poly might be putting her there.
Karma, I don't know what your beef was with what I said but I'm glad you got something out of it. I don't necessarily say what people want to hear in all aspects of my life, but I sometimes say what they need to hear. All the rest is just bullshit and one can take it or leave it
... Such is the joy of forums. 
Karma
New member
Karma, I don't know what your beef was with what I said but I'm glad you got something out of it. I don't necessarily say what people want to hear in all aspects of my life, but I sometimes say what they need to hear. All the rest is just bullshit and one can take it or leave it
You're blunt, you speak your mind, and you don't care if you offend people with the truth. I'm used to being that person, not to dealing with that person, and it caught me off guard. But I think it's good for me to have the shoe on the other foot every now and then. Obviously, it makes me stop and think.
I'm not used to that kind of honestly and bluntness from anyone other than Mohegan and her Wife, but I definitely can respect it.
Mohegan
New member
I hadn't really thought of it this way. I was so caught up in "she's doing this to hurt him, she knows full well what she's doing" that I didn't let the idea that it could be anything else cross my mind. Given how young she is and her lack of experience in many aspects of life, it's not hard to see that she could get caught up in being the novelty. My first instinct was to say "but I would never do that" and I'm glad I'm at the point where I can mentaly slap myself and say no but you have. We all need to be te center of attention sometimes, maybe that's not so bad. Maybe I'm projecting my fears onto her and that's just not fair. Being afriad he'll be hurt, and being convinced her every action is intended to hurt him are two different things.
I thought I had a better grasp on things, but it appears I let my fear get the best of me. Perhaps it's time for a bit of soul searching.
I do still find some of her actions bothersom, but I also have a new outlook on others.
Very interesting.
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redpepper
Active member
@mohegan- Yes, I find her actions bothersome too as to me they perpetuate the notion that women are objects, even when they think they are empowering themselves by being open sexually. There is open sexually by being empowered to have the choice and then there is being open sexually by allowing to be coerced and thinking that I am being respected when really the person just wants to use my body to masturbate into because they think it's hot.... very different to me. Still choices, but one out of manipulation and the other by really being in tune with who I am and what the situation is. It's a fine line.
Some people don't have an issue with being used this way and don't see it as being used. Perhaps she is one of these people, perhaps not. I really don't know what to do about how you feel if she really is the type to not care if she is being used. I have never figured that out myself. I find it virtually impossible to be okay with that as I can't help thinking there is something hidden beneath that that is damaged and aching for help.... I have a long way to go on that one, I really do. I'm working on it.
In the meantime I just don't talk about casual sex in this way and leave the room when it comes up. Then I remain as open and caring as possible in case someone wants to talk about it. It has not helped my being resentful, angry, judgmental and expressing concern in this way. I have made myself an outsider by having that approach and I don't want that. It has worked far better to accept that people are on their own journey than I sexually and that may be different or at the very least they may be in a different place.
I don't think people use themselves to get back at others. I think they use others instead. You have a point if she was using the best friend to get back somehow. It sounds like a conversation around that might bring some light to it all... where was she coming from in that moment? some hard questions could be asked in order to get to the bottom of it and determine what kind of support she needs now or what kind of process needs to be gone through for you all to be comfortable again.
I think that humans try and survive rather than damage themselves further as a general note. That being said, I think we sometimes think it's just easier to give in to pressure and just say what the hell rather than thinking of the consequences of what it might do to ourselves and those we care about. In poly that is not an option.
If we are single then we only have ourselves to answer to, but in poly we not only have our partner, but our partners partner and the rest of the tribe. The trickle down effect is massive sometimes. It sounds like girlfriend had not thought that through to the end. Perhaps she is still in the process of learning and growing in this area. In the mean time, she may well of been taken advantage of in terms of her vulnerability because she is in a poly relationship. Does that make sense?
Maybe this is a new thread topic... as I have, on occasion, heard of others who have been treated similarly just because they have been seen as obtainable sexually because they are poly... monogamy does have it's protections for those who are vulnerable or make themselves vulnerable.
@Karma-
Thanks for saying that... I actually care greatly that I offend others (Many a tear has been shed when I find I am not liked...). I have learned a lot on here about how to word what I say so as not to... that doesn't mean I never offend, because sometimes it just has to be said. I don't seem to have a cap on the truth and honesty... but I do have words to use that can soften the blow if need be. I'm not always good at that.... what can I say, I'm human and passionate and care deeply for the well being of others. Some might say that I'm a bitch... but I like to stay in the positive and just say I'm passionately honest I hope it means that people will at least know where they stand with me....
what I find interesting is that in real life I am far more fun loving and humorous than I am on here. I use humour quite often to be honest and communicate. No one sees it one here, I just don't have the time I think... my banter is just as bad as Mono's in real life... nothing like humour to keep us together heh
Some people don't have an issue with being used this way and don't see it as being used. Perhaps she is one of these people, perhaps not. I really don't know what to do about how you feel if she really is the type to not care if she is being used. I have never figured that out myself. I find it virtually impossible to be okay with that as I can't help thinking there is something hidden beneath that that is damaged and aching for help.... I have a long way to go on that one, I really do. I'm working on it.
In the meantime I just don't talk about casual sex in this way and leave the room when it comes up. Then I remain as open and caring as possible in case someone wants to talk about it. It has not helped my being resentful, angry, judgmental and expressing concern in this way. I have made myself an outsider by having that approach and I don't want that. It has worked far better to accept that people are on their own journey than I sexually and that may be different or at the very least they may be in a different place.
I don't think people use themselves to get back at others. I think they use others instead. You have a point if she was using the best friend to get back somehow. It sounds like a conversation around that might bring some light to it all... where was she coming from in that moment? some hard questions could be asked in order to get to the bottom of it and determine what kind of support she needs now or what kind of process needs to be gone through for you all to be comfortable again.
I think that humans try and survive rather than damage themselves further as a general note. That being said, I think we sometimes think it's just easier to give in to pressure and just say what the hell rather than thinking of the consequences of what it might do to ourselves and those we care about. In poly that is not an option.
If we are single then we only have ourselves to answer to, but in poly we not only have our partner, but our partners partner and the rest of the tribe. The trickle down effect is massive sometimes. It sounds like girlfriend had not thought that through to the end. Perhaps she is still in the process of learning and growing in this area. In the mean time, she may well of been taken advantage of in terms of her vulnerability because she is in a poly relationship. Does that make sense?
Maybe this is a new thread topic... as I have, on occasion, heard of others who have been treated similarly just because they have been seen as obtainable sexually because they are poly... monogamy does have it's protections for those who are vulnerable or make themselves vulnerable.
@Karma-
You're blunt, you speak your mind, and you don't care if you offend people with the truth. I'm used to being that person, not to dealing with that person, and it caught me off guard. But I think it's good for me to have the shoe on the other foot every now and then. Obviously, it makes me stop and think.
I'm not used to that kind of honestly and bluntness from anyone other than Mohegan and her Wife, but I definitely can respect it.
Thanks for saying that... I actually care greatly that I offend others (Many a tear has been shed when I find I am not liked...
). I have learned a lot on here about how to word what I say so as not to... that doesn't mean I never offend, because sometimes it just has to be said. I don't seem to have a cap on the truth and honesty... but I do have words to use that can soften the blow if need be. I'm not always good at that.... what can I say, I'm human and passionate and care deeply for the well being of others. Some might say that I'm a bitch... but I like to stay in the positive and just say I'm passionately honest I hope it means that people will at least know where they stand with me....what I find interesting is that in real life I am far more fun loving and humorous than I am on here. I use humour quite often to be honest and communicate. No one sees it one here, I just don't have the time I think... my banter is just as bad as Mono's in real life... nothing like humour to keep us together
heh
Mohegan
New member
Lots and lots to think about. I'm really not feeling all that well. Just plain out exhausted. I haven't had a goos restful sleep in about 2 weeks. And it just gets worse. I may have had 2 hrs last night. If I was lucky. I mostly just drift in and out.
A lot on my mind. A friends 4 month old is the hospital with siezures and they don't know the cause.
Karma and his friend are still on iffy grounds and we are skipping the b-day party I was looking forward to , to avoid drama. She's a great woman and doesn't deserve that at her party.
Karma is on his way to pick his g/f up. We are going to another b-day party and then to hang out with my wife and her husband.
I'm honestly still not even sure about going. I don't want to be sround g/f right now. Mostly due to the awkwardness of it all. I haven't sorted my feelings out yet so I don't know how to react to her. I'm not one to put on a fake smile and make small talk just to appease. But I I don't want Karma stuck in the middle either.
It may be best that I just stay home, but I only get to see this friend when he is home on leave, so I do want to go over there.
I'm physicaly, emotionaly and spiritualy just exhausted. We just got back from vacation a few weeks ago and I'm ready for another one!
I almost wish things would have worked out with that other guy (though they haven't completely fizzled either, it's all in limbo). I kinda just wanna call and ask him to rescue me from my own life. Even if it's only as long as a movie lasts, at least its a break.
I find myself dreading opening my eyes in the morning, wondering what kind doom and gloom is going to hit today. It seems the minute one thing is resolved, another pops up in its place.
RP-Thanks so much for your imput. I need some time to think it all over and digest it. I do appreciate it though and I agree with quite a but of what you've said, I just need to figure out how it applys and what to do with it.
A lot on my mind. A friends 4 month old is the hospital with siezures and they don't know the cause.
Karma and his friend are still on iffy grounds and we are skipping the b-day party I was looking forward to , to avoid drama. She's a great woman and doesn't deserve that at her party.
Karma is on his way to pick his g/f up. We are going to another b-day party and then to hang out with my wife and her husband.
I'm honestly still not even sure about going. I don't want to be sround g/f right now. Mostly due to the awkwardness of it all. I haven't sorted my feelings out yet so I don't know how to react to her. I'm not one to put on a fake smile and make small talk just to appease. But I I don't want Karma stuck in the middle either.
It may be best that I just stay home, but I only get to see this friend when he is home on leave, so I do want to go over there.
I'm physicaly, emotionaly and spiritualy just exhausted. We just got back from vacation a few weeks ago and I'm ready for another one!
I almost wish things would have worked out with that other guy (though they haven't completely fizzled either, it's all in limbo). I kinda just wanna call and ask him to rescue me from my own life. Even if it's only as long as a movie lasts, at least its a break.
I find myself dreading opening my eyes in the morning, wondering what kind doom and gloom is going to hit today. It seems the minute one thing is resolved, another pops up in its place.
RP-Thanks so much for your imput. I need some time to think it all over and digest it. I do appreciate it though and I agree with quite a but of what you've said, I just need to figure out how it applys and what to do with it.
Morningglory629
New member
Wow.... you people have written my wife a freakin book's worth of support and advice here.
Thank you. I'm not too sure if you all realize how much you've helped us both. Particularly LR and RedPepper... Pepper, I have to admit, your comments pissed me of when I first read them, but in trying to defend myself and justify my actions, I came to realize that one of my best friends, the woman Mohegan calls her 'wife', has a very similar approach to talking about things. I realized that if you hadn't have ben talking about me, I probably wouldn't have been quite as angry... which lead me to explore exactly why you made the comments you made, and why they made me angry. Interesting bit of self-analysis, there.
LR, your story helped me put into words a lot of thoughts and emotions that I simply was unequipped to to put into words on my own. Due to a pretty screwed up childhood, I have a borderline case of Antisocial Personality Disorder - I go through periods of time where the only real emotions I feel are either amusement or anger. Mohegan - and very recently, my gf - are the only people who have ever been able to help me when I'm in one of those mindsets. Basically, they MAKE me love them. I can't help it, resistance is futile
So, due to these periodic bouts of no real emotion, and basically cutting myself off from feling deep emotions even on the best of days, I have a REALLY hard time dealing with or understanding emotions, in general. To elaborate, I understand Mohegan pretty darn well at this point - I know how she thinks, what's going to make her mad, ect. - but until recently, I had no basis for understanding WHY certain things provoked a particular emotion from her, or, in some cases, what that emotion really felt like.
I've recently been doing some serious rediscovery/recovery work on myself, and I'm feeling emotions again after a good 15 years or so. Got my first real brush with jealousy the other night when gf slept with a good friend of mine - with permission.
I flipped out completely. I thought I would be cool with it. I had no clue that I would respond with jealousy, and absolutely no idea how to handle the emotion. I ended up walking the streets of our not-so-safe neighorhood at 3 AM hoping that someone was dumb enough to try and mug me.
In case you were wondering, this is a stupid way to handle jealousy
So, long story short, I'm discovering that I have the emotional experience of a sixteen year old boy - at 29 years old. I'm in love with two women, one of which is also trying to figure herself out... well, both of which are trying to figure themselves out. They both love me and are trying their best to help me in return... it's chaotic, I have moments of this crazy fear when my brain decides to play out the absolute worst-case scenario about gf, simply based on me not knowing whats going on with her at that point in time, almost none of which has been founded on anything realistic... but in spite of all the insanity, I'm actually happy with Mohegan, with gf, and with myself at the moment.
"This is my family. It's little, and broken, but still good. Yeah, still good."
Hi Karma!!!!! So glad you are on here. I think your wife is awesome-she has helped me check myself just by reading her stuff. So I'm looking forward to your input- you are both writers
which is right up my alley. My bf has the same insecurity about me and the same upheaval of emotions every so often. Really looking forward to your perspective and articulation of it. Not sure if Mohegan told ya...but my husband, kids and I were just in Baltimore (Inner Harbor). Beautiful town! WELCOME!good luck mohegan, I can empathize entirely with the exhaustion for similar reasons lately. I've had my fair share... much more than I let on. Hope you feel more settles and work some stuff out soon.
RP- This kind of hit me...with relief. When I read your blog...I do get encouragement but I also think WTF am I doing wrong? You guys seem to have it together ALL the time, especially you juggling so much and smiling all the while. So you are human and not a Poly Goddess of Perfection ;-) just kidding. Although I am sure Mono will agree with Poly Goddess of Perfection moniker for you. So good to know that it is an ongoing process for the experienced, reasonably settled poly/mono relationships; and not just me unable to get to that place of "ahhhhh, glad that part is over!" Make sense? Anyway, thank you for always being honest and sharing your journey and advice. Two things: Why does Mon call you Lilo? And where the Hell have LR and Maca and GG been? I miss them on here too.
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Karma
New member
So last night I had an amazing experience. Mohegan, myself, and my gf were all hanging out with the people that Mohegan and I call our family, IE the people we love like they actually were related, even though they aren't.
So I'm going over the recent situation with between gf and my friend, and she's sitting right beside me while I'm doing so. We've determined that she's freaked out because he's gotten way possessive really, really fast, and that he frightens her for a variety of reasons. She wants to cut him out of her life, but is trying to figure out how to do so "politely" because she's worried about him retaliating in some way.... and to be fair, I've never seen him come unhinged like this over anything before.
She hadn't even finished explaining her fear, before everyone I was with at the table told her that she had nothing to worry about, or that they'd deal with it, or that they wouldn't let anything like that happen... ect. ect. ect. It happened in under a second. Finally, Crafty, the marine who is on leave that we were there to see, and who we started the conversation with, just grins at her and says, "Nope. Not gonna happen."
It blew my mind. Mohegan and I often refer to the 'family' as our pack - it's not too far from the truth, honestly. And here's this girl that most of them have either just met or don't really know that well, but it didn't matter. They saw that I love her, they saw that she was scared of something, and that was all they needed to know.
I am blessed to be a part of my "pack". I'll never forget it.
So I'm going over the recent situation with between gf and my friend, and she's sitting right beside me while I'm doing so. We've determined that she's freaked out because he's gotten way possessive really, really fast, and that he frightens her for a variety of reasons. She wants to cut him out of her life, but is trying to figure out how to do so "politely" because she's worried about him retaliating in some way.... and to be fair, I've never seen him come unhinged like this over anything before.
She hadn't even finished explaining her fear, before everyone I was with at the table told her that she had nothing to worry about, or that they'd deal with it, or that they wouldn't let anything like that happen... ect. ect. ect. It happened in under a second. Finally, Crafty, the marine who is on leave that we were there to see, and who we started the conversation with, just grins at her and says, "Nope. Not gonna happen."
It blew my mind. Mohegan and I often refer to the 'family' as our pack - it's not too far from the truth, honestly. And here's this girl that most of them have either just met or don't really know that well, but it didn't matter. They saw that I love her, they saw that she was scared of something, and that was all they needed to know.
I am blessed to be a part of my "pack". I'll never forget it.
Mohegan
New member
Wow I actualy slept last night! Though I think it had more to do with the pain pills than actual restful sleep, cuz I'm I still feel kind of off and out of it.
While Karma had a great time last night, I was kind of left to the side lines. He just kept disapearing to have this talk or that talk and most of the time his g/f went with. Granted I knew almost everyone at the party and had plenty of people to hold my attention, she didn't. But I felt like I was kind of pushed aside. Almost like Oh this is my new one so lok everybody look, oh the old one yeah she's here, somewhere.
Karma asked multiple times what was wrong, and I couldn't place it. For awhile I really thought it was just that I was in a lot of pain and had little sleep. But I thought about it a lot while laying in the dark waiting for sleep to come and I realized that pain played a HUGE role in my thought process of the night.
When we are at parties, he is the social butterfly. Because of my back pain, I usualy find somewhere comfy to grow roots, and that is where I stay. So he's used just going off. But when she's with us, it's a different dynamic. I feel like he's showing her off. And maybe he should be. But I feel like it should be more of Yeah I can fianaly come out and do this in public b/c my wife is amazing and understanding and let me do this without divorcing me. I get that affirmation at home, I don't in public. I'm left to answer the questions, I'm left to handle the stares, the looks of pitty and the looks of jealousy. That's a lot to deal with on my own.
I also get that people approach me more than him on these situations because that is the public stereotype. Big mean man drug his wife out and to parade around with his g/f. I know that isn't the intent, but that's the message.
And it bothers me on so many levels.
The people that come to me and tell me they don't know where I get my strength, how do you do it, I could never forgive him for that. They drive me just as crazy. Because I love him damnit!!! Because he lets me be me in anyway I need to, why shouldn't I give him the same?
I'm sure the awkwardness between me and g/f just added to my mood of the evening. I didn't engage her in anything. If she asked a question I answered her, but that was as far as it went. I feel like a mother wolf protecting her cub. I just want to bare my teeth and snap. And I know that is neither the helpful thing nor the response Karma wants, so I do nothing but stew.
I've done a lot of thinking on what redpepper has said and I guess it all boils down to..I just don't know g/f at all. I hit the wall she puts up and I decide she's not worth figuring out. Partly her fault, partly mine. To be supportive of this, I need to not be a bitch. I can be there for her without being a parent. I get that. But I have such a hard time understanding where she is coming from. If it were not for Karma, she is someone I would never assiciate with, because her ideals and actions and thought processes are so foreign to me. She's just not someone I'd meet out with friends and want to continue a friendship with.
So how do I push past the fact that we have no common ground, and I have no idea how she processes things and I have no concept of why she does the things she does? If I can't relate to her on any level, how do be there for her? B/c everytime I run it through my head, the only time our contact hasn't felt forced or under pretense has been when we've had to discuss an issue.
I feel horrible b/c Karma asked me over and over if I was okay, what's wrong, is it just the pain. and I kept snapping at him. I am so very greatful for the concern, but I felt like I was being harrassed. By my own husband! And honestly didn't think anything was wrong. I thought I was just plain out exhausted.
Little did I know.
Amazing what 12 hrs of sleep will do. Even if it was drug induced. ( I never really get a deep sleep on pain pills, medicated sleep is just weird). But the bring tears to my eye pain of last night, is now a dull roar, and my brain seems to have caught up with it's self. So I guess it's time to move forward.
While Karma had a great time last night, I was kind of left to the side lines. He just kept disapearing to have this talk or that talk and most of the time his g/f went with. Granted I knew almost everyone at the party and had plenty of people to hold my attention, she didn't. But I felt like I was kind of pushed aside. Almost like Oh this is my new one so lok everybody look, oh the old one yeah she's here, somewhere.
Karma asked multiple times what was wrong, and I couldn't place it. For awhile I really thought it was just that I was in a lot of pain and had little sleep. But I thought about it a lot while laying in the dark waiting for sleep to come and I realized that pain played a HUGE role in my thought process of the night.
When we are at parties, he is the social butterfly. Because of my back pain, I usualy find somewhere comfy to grow roots, and that is where I stay. So he's used just going off. But when she's with us, it's a different dynamic. I feel like he's showing her off. And maybe he should be. But I feel like it should be more of Yeah I can fianaly come out and do this in public b/c my wife is amazing and understanding and let me do this without divorcing me. I get that affirmation at home, I don't in public. I'm left to answer the questions, I'm left to handle the stares, the looks of pitty and the looks of jealousy. That's a lot to deal with on my own.
I also get that people approach me more than him on these situations because that is the public stereotype. Big mean man drug his wife out and to parade around with his g/f. I know that isn't the intent, but that's the message.
And it bothers me on so many levels.
The people that come to me and tell me they don't know where I get my strength, how do you do it, I could never forgive him for that. They drive me just as crazy. Because I love him damnit!!! Because he lets me be me in anyway I need to, why shouldn't I give him the same?
I'm sure the awkwardness between me and g/f just added to my mood of the evening. I didn't engage her in anything. If she asked a question I answered her, but that was as far as it went. I feel like a mother wolf protecting her cub. I just want to bare my teeth and snap. And I know that is neither the helpful thing nor the response Karma wants, so I do nothing but stew.
I've done a lot of thinking on what redpepper has said and I guess it all boils down to..I just don't know g/f at all. I hit the wall she puts up and I decide she's not worth figuring out. Partly her fault, partly mine. To be supportive of this, I need to not be a bitch. I can be there for her without being a parent. I get that. But I have such a hard time understanding where she is coming from. If it were not for Karma, she is someone I would never assiciate with, because her ideals and actions and thought processes are so foreign to me. She's just not someone I'd meet out with friends and want to continue a friendship with.
So how do I push past the fact that we have no common ground, and I have no idea how she processes things and I have no concept of why she does the things she does? If I can't relate to her on any level, how do be there for her? B/c everytime I run it through my head, the only time our contact hasn't felt forced or under pretense has been when we've had to discuss an issue.
I feel horrible b/c Karma asked me over and over if I was okay, what's wrong, is it just the pain. and I kept snapping at him. I am so very greatful for the concern, but I felt like I was being harrassed. By my own husband! And honestly didn't think anything was wrong. I thought I was just plain out exhausted.
Little did I know.
Amazing what 12 hrs of sleep will do. Even if it was drug induced. ( I never really get a deep sleep on pain pills, medicated sleep is just weird). But the bring tears to my eye pain of last night, is now a dull roar, and my brain seems to have caught up with it's self. So I guess it's time to move forward.
redpepper
Active member
I figure the only way to do it is to spend time with her, just the two of you. Figure out what you can and cannot talk about and then go with that. A wall is fine as long as you make sure you communicate when need be rather than let it be in the way of that.
Find some common ground in the fact that you love the same man. Rely on her to entertain him in ways that bore you or have just gotten old. Be grateful when she gives him some time to do something that you can't or haven't been able to and basically suck it up and smile until you make to that cozy place of compersion, even if you are gritting your teeth behind the smile for awhile.
I can tell you that giving in that way means love comes back to you in ways that are a surprise and comes back ten fold.
redpepper
Active member
I figure the only way to do it is to spend time with her, just the two of you. Figure out what you can and cannot talk about and then go with that. A wall is fine as long as you make sure you communicate when need be rather than let it be in the way of that.
Find some common ground in the fact that you love the same man. Rely on her to entertain him in ways that bore you or have just gotten old. Be grateful when she gives him some time to do something that you can't or haven't been able to and basically suck it up and smile until you make to that cozy place of compersion, even if you are gritting your teeth behind the smile for awhile.
I can tell you that giving in that way means love comes back to you in ways that are a surprise and comes back ten fold.
It's always an ongoing process this poly life of mine, but I have been in it for a long while, it's not new to me. I still struggle with some of the same issues as I read on here, but they have mellowed and I can see clearly through them is all. I do come across stuff all the time that blows my mind when I realize the weight of it on me is larger than I expect or have considered, but we get through it faster, and more easily because we have set up some ways of dealing that work for us... not to mention we go at a snails pace. It's amazing what works its self out just by sitting on it and bringing it up over and over again until we find ourselves on the other side.
LR, Maca and GG are incognito... they are fine. But working some stuff out. Not necessarily poly related, but family related. They are reading, just can't respond right now.
Morningglory629
New member
Mohegan
New member
I hate smiling through gritted teeth, it feels so false. But I can see your point. I think somewhere I know that we need to spend time together, just us, it's just that when I play it through, we're full of awkward silence when all three of us are together. We depend on Karma and the cats to provide conversation. Anytime I think of she and I going out to do something together, I can only imagine the silence and that doesn't seem like a great way to get to know eachother. I tend to overthink and overanalyze as if you hadn't figured that out yet) and I guess I just need to suck it up and let it all play out.
And since Karma so nicely decided to go out with her tonight and not be back in time to go to a party at my wifes, I've sat here and thought, a lot.
I wrote her a letter that I have yet to e-mail. I think I'll post it here and get input. Just to make sure I'm covering what I've mentioned on here, and I'm not forgetting anything. And to make sure it comes across in a productive and not attacking manner. I've edited names, the friend she slept with is referred to as D.
Dear ,
I’ve been trying to put my feelings into words. Trying to find a way we can both understand where the other is coming from. I’ve not had a lot of luck.
Here’s where I’m at.
I was really taken aback by the whole D situation. When the three of us talked, you said you weren’t going to sleep with anyone. You wanted time to get your head straight. I understood and respected that. I did tell you as long as you and Karma had an understanding of things, I didn’t care who you slept with. I still don’t. My issue was that 3 days after saying you weren’t going to sleep with anyone, you slept with D. At first Karma hadn’t told me he had said it was okay. So I was irate with both of you. Later when he told me he had said it was okay, I was only miffed at you. Had you suddenly straightened everything out in three days? Wow, must have been a record. I felt that you had completely disregarded Karma’s feelings. Here I am sharing the most precious thing in the world, and you seem to be treating it like shit.
So you guys all get things straightened out, and you decide you’re okay with sleeping with people other than (her ex). Okay fine, your choice. Then Karma tells me you are having emotional issues with sleeping with D, but keep doing it? I don’t understand that. Why keep putting yourself through that?
I decided I was done with you when I felt you were acting in complete disregard of Karma’s feelings. I am not okay with that. When we are single the only person we have to answer to is ourselves. When we are in a monogamous relationship with one other person, we have to take their feelings into consideration before we act. When we are in a poly relationship, no matter if it is closed or open, we have our partners and their partners to take into account.Thanks RP
I do not feel that anyone has the right to dictate to anyone, what they can or cannot do. But I do feel that if you are in a relationship, you must think of all parties involved.
This made me wonder why you chose to sleep with D in the first place. If it was someone you had interest in and wanted to explore, great! Have fun! But I wondered what the motivation was. Were you enjoying being the center of attention? Did you get off on being a novelty? I don’t understand how, when you are already confused, adding another lover to the mix helps straighten anything out. Was this a way to get back at Karma b/c he can’t sleep with you right now? I don’t understand how you went from not wanting to sleep with anyone, to torturing yourself. This is a foreign concept to me.
I decided I could no longer be a part of this. I couldn’t actively take part in what was causing my husband so much grief.
The more I have thought of things, talked with other poly friends, and discussed things with Karma I have come to the following conclusions.
I don’t know you. I feel I’ve tried, and have been met by a brick wall. I have two options, knock it down with a sledge hammer, or wait for you to take it down. I tried to be patient with that, but it’s hard to understand all these other actions, when I don’t know you. I feel like when we do talk, there is this pretense to everything.
I don’t know what you want from my husband. You seem to be bouncing all over the map. I have to have things categorized for my brain to understand it. I understand that not all people are like that. When Karma told me this morning that you decided to be your own primary, my brain instantly went to, so she doesn’t care about any of them, doesn’t want input from any of them. Because that’s what it meant to me. I don’t feel primaries are better than secondary’s, I feel they are labels for levels. Karma and I, when originally discussing poly, said that eventually our secondary would move to share primary “status”. I look at is a level of involvement in the lives of their partners. When you said you were your own primary, I wondered why you were in a relationship with anyone. Karma later explained that you want to date him and (her ex) and after some further explanation, I was able to see you as the hinge of your own V. I can get that. That makes more sense to me.
I also have a hard time with the fact that I need rules and stability. I need to know what is expected. You and Karma seem to have no rules, no expectations, no agreements, no anything. That leaves me confused. I have no idea what is expected. I have no idea what the two of you see as right and wrong within your relationship. I know my relationship with Karma is different than yours. I’m having a hard time adjusting to that. I need things to be clear and precise and when they aren’t I am very much out of my element. The fact that Karma is learning to recognize and deal with emotion, makes this even more difficult. When he comes to me for advice, I have no idea what to say. Is he justified in this feeling or that? I don’t know, because no one knows the expectations of this relationship. I don't know how to be supportive when he doesn't even know what is right or wrong.
One of my poly friends brought up a good point. By removing myself from the situation, I am removing myself from a very important part of my husband’s life. That isn’t fair to him. This only makes the situation more difficult. It was the action I knew to take. What other option did I have, I didn’t trust you, don’t know you, have no idea the thought process behind the actions, all the drama in my life of the last few months has been a result of you being in it all together, so removing you from my life as much as I can was the only option I thought I had.
I do think I have projected some of my fears onto you. I’ve figured out that fearing you will hurt him, does not translate into your every action is intended to cause harm.
You still have a lot of yourself to figure out. You’re trying to do that, and while I don’t see what you’ve done as being the best way to do that, you did it for your own reasons. I have to accept that.
I still don’t know what to do. I don’t know what needs to happen to regain trust in you. I don’t know how to go about getting to know you, without holding everything against you. Not fair, but truthful. I said at the beginning of all this, that we would all experience growing pains. It appears this is another one.
My ideal situation is for all of us to live happily ever after. Yeah I tend to set the goals high. Honestly though. I would love to have you as a friend. I would love if we could talk about life’s issues, relationship issues, Karma’s annoying quirks that we can’t help but love. But I don’t see how that can be reached at this point. I’m not against it, I just don’t know how to get there.
And since Karma so nicely decided to go out with her tonight and not be back in time to go to a party at my wifes, I've sat here and thought, a lot.
I wrote her a letter that I have yet to e-mail. I think I'll post it here and get input. Just to make sure I'm covering what I've mentioned on here, and I'm not forgetting anything. And to make sure it comes across in a productive and not attacking manner. I've edited names, the friend she slept with is referred to as D.
Dear ,
I’ve been trying to put my feelings into words. Trying to find a way we can both understand where the other is coming from. I’ve not had a lot of luck.
Here’s where I’m at.
I was really taken aback by the whole D situation. When the three of us talked, you said you weren’t going to sleep with anyone. You wanted time to get your head straight. I understood and respected that. I did tell you as long as you and Karma had an understanding of things, I didn’t care who you slept with. I still don’t. My issue was that 3 days after saying you weren’t going to sleep with anyone, you slept with D. At first Karma hadn’t told me he had said it was okay. So I was irate with both of you. Later when he told me he had said it was okay, I was only miffed at you. Had you suddenly straightened everything out in three days? Wow, must have been a record. I felt that you had completely disregarded Karma’s feelings. Here I am sharing the most precious thing in the world, and you seem to be treating it like shit.
So you guys all get things straightened out, and you decide you’re okay with sleeping with people other than (her ex). Okay fine, your choice. Then Karma tells me you are having emotional issues with sleeping with D, but keep doing it? I don’t understand that. Why keep putting yourself through that?
I decided I was done with you when I felt you were acting in complete disregard of Karma’s feelings. I am not okay with that. When we are single the only person we have to answer to is ourselves. When we are in a monogamous relationship with one other person, we have to take their feelings into consideration before we act. When we are in a poly relationship, no matter if it is closed or open, we have our partners and their partners to take into account.Thanks RP
I do not feel that anyone has the right to dictate to anyone, what they can or cannot do. But I do feel that if you are in a relationship, you must think of all parties involved.
This made me wonder why you chose to sleep with D in the first place. If it was someone you had interest in and wanted to explore, great! Have fun! But I wondered what the motivation was. Were you enjoying being the center of attention? Did you get off on being a novelty? I don’t understand how, when you are already confused, adding another lover to the mix helps straighten anything out. Was this a way to get back at Karma b/c he can’t sleep with you right now? I don’t understand how you went from not wanting to sleep with anyone, to torturing yourself. This is a foreign concept to me.
I decided I could no longer be a part of this. I couldn’t actively take part in what was causing my husband so much grief.
The more I have thought of things, talked with other poly friends, and discussed things with Karma I have come to the following conclusions.
I don’t know you. I feel I’ve tried, and have been met by a brick wall. I have two options, knock it down with a sledge hammer, or wait for you to take it down. I tried to be patient with that, but it’s hard to understand all these other actions, when I don’t know you. I feel like when we do talk, there is this pretense to everything.
I don’t know what you want from my husband. You seem to be bouncing all over the map. I have to have things categorized for my brain to understand it. I understand that not all people are like that. When Karma told me this morning that you decided to be your own primary, my brain instantly went to, so she doesn’t care about any of them, doesn’t want input from any of them. Because that’s what it meant to me. I don’t feel primaries are better than secondary’s, I feel they are labels for levels. Karma and I, when originally discussing poly, said that eventually our secondary would move to share primary “status”. I look at is a level of involvement in the lives of their partners. When you said you were your own primary, I wondered why you were in a relationship with anyone. Karma later explained that you want to date him and (her ex) and after some further explanation, I was able to see you as the hinge of your own V. I can get that. That makes more sense to me.
I also have a hard time with the fact that I need rules and stability. I need to know what is expected. You and Karma seem to have no rules, no expectations, no agreements, no anything. That leaves me confused. I have no idea what is expected. I have no idea what the two of you see as right and wrong within your relationship. I know my relationship with Karma is different than yours. I’m having a hard time adjusting to that. I need things to be clear and precise and when they aren’t I am very much out of my element. The fact that Karma is learning to recognize and deal with emotion, makes this even more difficult. When he comes to me for advice, I have no idea what to say. Is he justified in this feeling or that? I don’t know, because no one knows the expectations of this relationship. I don't know how to be supportive when he doesn't even know what is right or wrong.
One of my poly friends brought up a good point. By removing myself from the situation, I am removing myself from a very important part of my husband’s life. That isn’t fair to him. This only makes the situation more difficult. It was the action I knew to take. What other option did I have, I didn’t trust you, don’t know you, have no idea the thought process behind the actions, all the drama in my life of the last few months has been a result of you being in it all together, so removing you from my life as much as I can was the only option I thought I had.
I do think I have projected some of my fears onto you. I’ve figured out that fearing you will hurt him, does not translate into your every action is intended to cause harm.
You still have a lot of yourself to figure out. You’re trying to do that, and while I don’t see what you’ve done as being the best way to do that, you did it for your own reasons. I have to accept that.
I still don’t know what to do. I don’t know what needs to happen to regain trust in you. I don’t know how to go about getting to know you, without holding everything against you. Not fair, but truthful. I said at the beginning of all this, that we would all experience growing pains. It appears this is another one.
My ideal situation is for all of us to live happily ever after. Yeah I tend to set the goals high. Honestly though. I would love to have you as a friend. I would love if we could talk about life’s issues, relationship issues, Karma’s annoying quirks that we can’t help but love. But I don’t see how that can be reached at this point. I’m not against it, I just don’t know how to get there.
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Mohegan
New member
I knew it was too good to last. Can't sleep again. Starting to get a migraine as well.
Karma finaly come home around 5 and we talked quite a bit. I think he's going to take the letter with him when he sees her on wed. He's afraid it'll come off like me attacking her. They are also apparently going to discuss expectations and a schedule to make sure Karma and her ex get equal time. I have a little better understanding of her. Not enough to have any idea where to start, but I think I maybe understand her actions with Karma's friend.
I just don't get people who change their mind every other day. I have no means of grasping that concept. I have no way of trusting in something she says, when it's most likely going to change tomorrow. How can base anything off of that? I really don't get how that doesn't drive Karma crazy.
Karma reaffirmed that she isn't herself around me, she is apparently afraid of me and even more so now that I'm upset with her. I'm sorry but I can't get to know someone who isn't genuine! I have a hard enough time with the timid mouse act, I don't deal well with people that just hide in a corner.
I'm trying to see this as a growing experience for myself. To try to learn to deal with those things. To try and fine the coping tools to understand where she is coming from. I know it will help with us as well as others like her I may encounter.
It's just all so damn frustrating.
Karma finaly come home around 5 and we talked quite a bit. I think he's going to take the letter with him when he sees her on wed. He's afraid it'll come off like me attacking her. They are also apparently going to discuss expectations and a schedule to make sure Karma and her ex get equal time. I have a little better understanding of her. Not enough to have any idea where to start, but I think I maybe understand her actions with Karma's friend.
I just don't get people who change their mind every other day. I have no means of grasping that concept. I have no way of trusting in something she says, when it's most likely going to change tomorrow. How can base anything off of that? I really don't get how that doesn't drive Karma crazy.
Karma reaffirmed that she isn't herself around me, she is apparently afraid of me and even more so now that I'm upset with her. I'm sorry but I can't get to know someone who isn't genuine! I have a hard enough time with the timid mouse act, I don't deal well with people that just hide in a corner.
I'm trying to see this as a growing experience for myself. To try to learn to deal with those things. To try and fine the coping tools to understand where she is coming from. I know it will help with us as well as others like her I may encounter.
It's just all so damn frustrating.
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Mohegan
New member
Karma and I had a date night tonight and things went great. Went to see the last airbender and it was AMAZING!!! I'm not a big M. Night Shamalan fan but he did a phenomonal job! The graphics are fantastic, hard to even tell how they did some of it.
Things are also in a better place as far as g/f goes. Karma and I went through the "things I've learned" thread tonight and it spawned some good conversation. I'm more at ease with wanting to get to know her and get back to what I wanted in the first place. If not a physical Triad, at least an emotional one. Karma and I share so much of ourselves with eachother, I don't like the distance I created but not wanting to speak to her. I want us to share that as well. I don't want two completely seperate relationships.
Yes, it is his rlationship I get that. But I've wanted something similar to what we have with my wife. I don't care about seeing them cuddle, it makes me happy. It fills me with comfort to see him get comfort from her.
I want that with g/f as well. Maybe I'll never be able to cuddle with her like I do my wife, and I'm okay with that, but I want the comfort of knowing we are all completely okay with being ourselves together.
I was angry at her and I think in most ways I was justified in that anger, but I've had some understanding come from it. And as I've explored other threads, I'm learning that my anger is only causing problems for all of us, and it is selfish to want to hang on to it. By letting it grow I am only encouraging the problems to grow.
In a way I think it is best Kamra approach her with my feelings. I think she may be more receptive to that. Since she and I haven't spoken, I think mw suddenly dropping all my raw emotion in an e-mail, may cause more harm than good. Karma called himself the bridge last night, and I kind of feel that by letting him address it, I am doing nothing to bring she and I together, I am only strengthening our dependance on the bridge. I felt that by putting it out there myself I was skipping the bridge and throwing my white flag up and trying to fix things between us with out encouraging the need for him to be involved.
But he does need to be involved. And I'm realizing that as I write this. Right now he is what is bringing us together, and in the long run she and may have a relationship that is just ours (emotional/phys/whatever), but for right now, it is the three of us and it'll take the three of us to fix this. I think that is important.
Things are also in a better place as far as g/f goes. Karma and I went through the "things I've learned" thread tonight and it spawned some good conversation. I'm more at ease with wanting to get to know her and get back to what I wanted in the first place. If not a physical Triad, at least an emotional one. Karma and I share so much of ourselves with eachother, I don't like the distance I created but not wanting to speak to her. I want us to share that as well. I don't want two completely seperate relationships.
Yes, it is his rlationship I get that. But I've wanted something similar to what we have with my wife. I don't care about seeing them cuddle, it makes me happy. It fills me with comfort to see him get comfort from her.
I want that with g/f as well. Maybe I'll never be able to cuddle with her like I do my wife, and I'm okay with that, but I want the comfort of knowing we are all completely okay with being ourselves together.
I was angry at her and I think in most ways I was justified in that anger, but I've had some understanding come from it. And as I've explored other threads, I'm learning that my anger is only causing problems for all of us, and it is selfish to want to hang on to it. By letting it grow I am only encouraging the problems to grow.
In a way I think it is best Kamra approach her with my feelings. I think she may be more receptive to that. Since she and I haven't spoken, I think mw suddenly dropping all my raw emotion in an e-mail, may cause more harm than good. Karma called himself the bridge last night, and I kind of feel that by letting him address it, I am doing nothing to bring she and I together, I am only strengthening our dependance on the bridge. I felt that by putting it out there myself I was skipping the bridge and throwing my white flag up and trying to fix things between us with out encouraging the need for him to be involved.
But he does need to be involved. And I'm realizing that as I write this. Right now he is what is bringing us together, and in the long run she and may have a relationship that is just ours (emotional/phys/whatever), but for right now, it is the three of us and it'll take the three of us to fix this. I think that is important.
Morningglory629
New member
As always Baltimore Rambler you have articulated thoughts in my head...well, except I am gf and not wife. Great post!
Mohegan
New member
So I updated the letter. It's now 5 pages, but it explains a lot.
I'm just kind of in a mood tonight. Everything seems to be crashing in around me at the moment. I've tried for over a year to get a job and have found nothing. I'm trying to be supportive to Karma and seem to be making things harder by not being able to get along with his g/f. Everytime I workout I end over doing it, have a fibro flare and am stuck in bed for a few days. I finaly have the drive back, the desire for a better life, and the way to get there is blocked
I'm just kind of in a mood tonight. Everything seems to be crashing in around me at the moment. I've tried for over a year to get a job and have found nothing. I'm trying to be supportive to Karma and seem to be making things harder by not being able to get along with his g/f. Everytime I workout I end over doing it, have a fibro flare and am stuck in bed for a few days. I finaly have the drive back, the desire for a better life, and the way to get there is blocked
Karma
New member
You need to STOP.
You're not making anything harder for me. Completely the opposite, you've gone out of your way to try to make things better by addressing any and all issues that have come up in this situation, and by working with me to make our marriage better in the process. What exactly have you done that has made this 'worse' or 'more difficult'? Was it sitting up with me reading this board for three hours? Maybe the way we've been telling each other how we're feeling, whenever we think that something may need to be addressed, like the Country Music situation last night? Or maybe the fact that you've taken the time to write out a five page letter to my gf, for the sole purpose of fixing the issues between the two of you?
You're silly.
As far as the job thing goes, Maryland just sucks. End of story. We'll find a way to make it work.
As far as the fibro/workout thing is concerned, you know that you're going to have bad days. You can't beat yourself up because of this. Sometimes your body just needs a break. Stick to your diet, give your body what it needs, and Just Keep Swimming
You'll be OK. We'll be OK. I'm right here with you.
You're not making anything harder for me. Completely the opposite, you've gone out of your way to try to make things better by addressing any and all issues that have come up in this situation, and by working with me to make our marriage better in the process. What exactly have you done that has made this 'worse' or 'more difficult'? Was it sitting up with me reading this board for three hours? Maybe the way we've been telling each other how we're feeling, whenever we think that something may need to be addressed, like the Country Music situation last night? Or maybe the fact that you've taken the time to write out a five page letter to my gf, for the sole purpose of fixing the issues between the two of you?
You're silly.
As far as the job thing goes, Maryland just sucks. End of story. We'll find a way to make it work.
As far as the fibro/workout thing is concerned, you know that you're going to have bad days. You can't beat yourself up because of this. Sometimes your body just needs a break. Stick to your diet, give your body what it needs, and Just Keep Swimming
You'll be OK. We'll be OK. I'm right here with you.