Wife Wants Temporary Exclusivity With Boyfriend

[FallenAngelina]

I’m trying to figure out how this current discussion helps the op ? If it is or isn’t a primary need does that make this situation better ??

In my experience people protect / honor things that have value in their lives. Clearly a sexual relationship with her husband has no value. Either her NRE clouded brain can’t see the cascading effects this could have to her relationship/ marriage or she doesn’t care.

The discussion helps the OP to clarify for himself whether he prioritizes sex in his marriage or not. It's paramount to know about oneself and the OP seems to be stuck in a powerless position of his own making by going along with whatever the wife wants to dish out. The wife clearly does NOT enjoy a good sex life with her husband, that's why she can so easily ask for no sex with him. It's important for the OP to think about what is essential for him in a relationship. Sexyserb was making the point that for many men (OK, not every single solitary man) sex is THE most important aspect of a romantic relationship. It really doesn't matter what the world thinks about that statement, it matters what the OP thinks about that statement. If he doesn't care about a sexual connection, then he might be OK with the two-month moratorium on sex, but Sexyserb was saying that would be completely unacceptable to most men, in her experience. I have a similar experience, BTW. Yes, there are many men in sexless (or very sexually unsatisfying) long term marriages, but in my experience, all of them cheat - and many find love and are not just indulging in fuckery. Romantic love and sex do go together for all men that I know. (Again, it's just my experience.) Yes, there are many men who put up with "no sex" or "bad sex," because they do value other qualities in their spouse, but in my experience, those men are also looking elsewhere for sexual (and often emotionally romantic) attachment. The important question for the OP is: Do you want to be one of these men?

To me, this isn't about a mismatched sex drive at all, it is about romantic/sexual interest. The wife would seem to be indicating that her interest in her husband has taken a nose dive - or a slow decline. In any case, she is just not interested in a romantic/sexual attachment with him. The OP needs to think about whether he can go on living with her, boyfriend in tow, or whether romantic/sexual attachment is important to him and he somehow needs to look to another for this. Many people opt to just sit in pain over this question (and it usually festers secretly if its festering at all.) I do give the OP credit for seeking help here because I know a lot of men who just remain quiet about all of this. It's really quite courageous to come forward to one's spouse of many decades and open the Pandora's Box of options.

 

[dingedheart]

The discussion helps the OP to clarify for himself whether he prioritizes sex in his marriage or not. .

Really ? I thought it was someone taking exception to a broad and general statement anout “ most “men with some gender equality thrown in on top.

For some reason I don’t see this as a prioritizing issue. If you’ve been in a relationship for any length of time situations present themselves which interrupts the normal routine. Health issues, career travel, etc but to me this is EXTREMELY different.

To me it has nothing to do with how much or how dear he hold sex with his wife it’s the wholesale rejection. It’s the displacement! It’s the demotion!

And after 2 month on the bench does that mean he’s going to have to try out for the team again. Or will there be another surprise the goal post moved again.

What happens if she turns up pregnant. I scan this pretty quick but I didn’t read anything on birth control and what’s the plan if our 2 month drill produces a kid.

 

[Tinwen]

The OP hasn't been back to his thread, unfortunately. I'm sure if he dropped a few lines people would go back to talking to him directly pretty quick - otherwise threads do tend to get derailed a bit.

I do appreciate FallenAngelina's last post. It is a prioritization issue indeed (from a certain point of view at least). Some people value sex to the point where a partnership without it is meaningless, some don't. Some partnerships work in many important areas even without sex, some don't (and we have ZERO idea how OP's wife is as a ?mother?, as a partner sharing values and life-goals, and in other areas of intimacy right now). Hinging on how he values sex and what other kinds of attention he gets or not, and his general security in life, the OP might feel extremely displaced and demoted, or not. But even if he does feel displaced, he must decide if he prioritizes the home they built together (I'm still not sure if there are kids or not), or trying to find a more passionate relationship.

 

[radicaljd]

Hi folks, sorry for being absent. Busy week. I talked about my concerns with Gina, and she has stressed that our marriage is as important to her as ever. She seemed to put some of the blame on me, though "blame" was not the word she used. Because of my lower libido, Gina has been feeling a bit neglected, sexually. And now that she has a boyfriend, she's become caught up in a "whirlwind" (her word) of sexual desire that she's unable to divide. Gina mentioned that, the last couple of times we made love, her mind was focused on her boyfriend, and she hated that feeling.

The irony is that, when I mentioned that perhaps I should find another woman in the meantime while she goes through her "whirlwind" NRE with her boyfriend, she hit the roof. As strange as this sounds, I find this jealousy on her part, albeit unfair, to be encouraging. I mean, if she didn't love me, why would she care? Gina also said, "If you love me, you'll put our sex on hold and wait for me to go through this."

Other than the sexual part, my marriage to Gina is just fine. She shares everything with me, and shows no signs of wanting to ease out of our marriage. Strangely, Gina continues to sleep in the nude with me, and shows no signs of wanting to ease away from our intimacy in other respects. We still shower together frequently, and she still wants me to wash her all over as we have always done. A couple of times, this has been torture for me, but I have let Gina know that I am honoring her request to temporarily put our sex life on hold while she works through her sexual "whirlwind."

My intent is to not "hound" her for sexual intimacy, but to simply wait for her to initiate things again when she feels ready. I hope it's soon.

 

[Magdlyn]

Yeah, Tinwen, it's always frustrating when an OP ghosts. Extra information always changes the feedback we give.

Really? I thought it was someone taking exception to a broad and general statement about "most" men, with some gender equality thrown in on top.

For some reason I don’t see this as a prioritizing issue. If you’ve been in a relationship for any length of time situations present themselves which interrupts the normal routine: health issues, career, travel, etc. But to me this is EXTREMELY different.

To me it has nothing to do with how much or how dear he holds sex with his wife, it’s the wholesale rejection. It’s the displacement! It’s the demotion!

You felt displaced and demoted by your cheatin' wife, so you assume everyone does when presented with a request for less (or in this case, no) sex. Here's a thought. Maybe the OP has such a low sex drive that having sex 1-4 times a month was a burden he is eager to put down! Maybe having a horny wife he could never naturally satisfy hurt his soul, and he feels huge relief someone else is taking care of her in that department. (My female partner definitely prefers when I have a horny bf to serve most of my sexual needs.) Maybe they get along GREAT except for the sex. Maybe they still date, cooperate well on household management, love to share a good movie, comfort each other from life stresses, take care of pets, share hobbies, etc., etc.

There is no reason to conclude, just because their sex frequency is being experimentally tinkered with, that poor poor hubby is facing wholesale demotion and even displacement across the board.

I think of our member GirlfromTexlahoma, whose husband is genderqueer and can't serve her sexually to any satisfactory degree. They are deeply deeply in love and compatible otherwise. They just both need to go to others for sex.

And after 2 months on the bench does that mean he’s going to have to try out for the team again? Or will there be another surprise: the goal post moved again?

That's a good question, but there doesn't seem to be any need to panic about it.

What happens if she turns up pregnant? I scanned this pretty quickly, but I didn’t read anything on birth control. What’s the plan if our 2 month drill produces a kid?

Well, that seems to be quite off topic.

 

[dingedheart]

Important note: written before seeing post 44 and 45.


It seems a bit sad/ funny/ ironic to be suggest that a mono partner forced into a poly/ open relationship needs to figure out how important his sex life is when it’s about to be taken away. The sex life that he stated was good or great just not frequent enough for his wife.
The guy who was probably blindsided by all this needs to do a personal inventory on what sex with his wife means. Was it emotional bonding / and fun or more of a transaction/ release. Interesting. If it was more on the transaction side should he go to hookers for the next 2 months ?? And if he chose to would he be morally obligated to inform his wife ??? Providing strict adherence to super safe sex guidelines. ???

Tinwen: so you’re equating volume or quantity of sex to the value it might hold for a person ?? Because this guy doesn’t need / require / desire sex more than once or twice a week you think it might have little or no value for him ???

I get everyone’s doing the math on the 8 or 16 possible sexual encounters missed out on ....what’s the big deal ...do you want to blow up your whole life over that. I don’t see this as a math problem.

There’s really no good quick analogy that I can come up with that works for intimacies of sex in a marriage but imagine there’s this couple living together and he’s got a home business of sorts near or on the property so he literally walks to work everyday ...because of that they have one car. The wife works outside the home and is the primary driver of said car ....the husband uses the car once or twice a week depending on needs or whatever. All of a sudden after 11 yrs of that arrangement he’s told sorry you’re not allowed in the car ...we’d prefer you not go near the car because because this new guy is got dibs on the car. Sorry pal you’re going to have to walk ...(or in this case go jerk off). The counter argument is ...OMG what’s the big deal he only used the once or twice a week walking is such great exercise...there’s buses and Uber. This shouldn’t be such a big deal.

If it were situation that car was in the shop or totaled waiting on the insurance adjuster the average person carry’s on. But that’s not what’s happening here. The cars being used ....maybe more now than ever.


I won’t disagree that the marriage itself and all it’s component parts need to be looked at in terms of the value they bring not just the loss of his sex life.

 

[Magdlyn]

dingedheart, he said he likes sex once every week or two. That means 1-4 times a month. So let's say 3x a month. (Although as a guy, he might be saying once a week when he actually craves it much less, just to not seem like a eunuch. So it goes with guy culture.)

So that's at most 8 sex sessions he will miss out on. Maybe much less. As for the rest of the sex math, I'll wait for you to catch up with posts 44 and 45.

I don't know if the OP's wife will stop ALL touching of her husband in this no sex period. Maybe cuddling will still happen, or as I suggested a ways back, she would agree to embrace him while he masturbates? To make his masturbation better, to show she cares, to maintain touchability.

Once again, stop panicking. This isn't your marriage, dinged.

 

[Ravenscroft]

Oh... damn my luck, Magdlyn, but I feel you're on the wrong page here.

she has stressed that our marriage is as important to her as ever. Because of my lower libido, Gina has been feeling a bit neglected, sexually. Gina mentioned that, the last couple of times we made love, her mind was focused on her boyfriend, and she hated that feeling.

perhaps I should find another woman while she goes through her "whirlwind" NRE with her boyfriend, she hit the roof.

I find this jealousy to be encouraging. I mean, if she didn't love me, why would she care? Gina also said, "If you love me, you'll put our sex on hold and wait for me to go through this."

Gina continues to sleep in the nude with me. We still shower together frequently, and she still wants me to wash her all over as we have always done.

There seems to be a LOT of YOU OWE ME stuff going on here.

 

[lunabunny]

Hi folks, sorry for being absent. Busy week. I talked about my concerns with Gina, and she has stressed that our marriage is as important to her as ever. She seemed to put some of the blame on me, though "blame" was not the word she used. Because of my lower libido, Gina has been feeling a bit neglected, sexually.

She may not have used the word, however, given the situation you described in the rest of your post (to be addressed in further detail later), I think she probably does hold you largely accountable for "having" to go outside of the marriage to get her needs met.

On the surface, that part of it is nobody's "fault" per se - many couples deal with mis-matched libidos - it's how the couple, and the individuals involved, choose to deal with it that can raise questions of fairness, blame and understanding or lack thereof.

I can relate somewhat to Gina's frustration and even feelings of rejection (as I became poly during a phase when my previously attentive boyfriend appeared to be neglecting both the sexual side of our relationship AND being far less communicative in general.)

However, ultimately, it's your wife's CHOICE to resolve this issue by taking another lover, and therefore it's SHE who ought to do much of the emotional work to come to terms with what it means to be non monogamous.

Simply rejecting you sexually (for however long it takes her to work through her conflicted feelings about being sexual with both boyfriend vs you) is probably not going to do much to help, ultimately, but time will tell IF you allow this to run its course.

And now that she has a boyfriend, she's become caught up in a "whirlwind" (her word) of sexual desire that she's unable to divide. Gina mentioned that, the last couple of times we made love, her mind was focused on her boyfriend, and she hated that feeling.

I can also relate to Gina when it comes to feeling that way, especially during NRE. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, at times I've felt like I was cheating on my NEW partner when being intimate with my more established partner.

It's an "icky" feeling, to be sure, but the poly person concerned (Gina in this case) must try to realise it is not their current/established partner's fault that THEY feel this way, and it is both unfair and cruel to deprive them of sex and/or intimacy because of it. Doing so comes across strongly as some sort of "revenge" or "punishment" of the original partner for not having met their physical or emotional needs in some way, no matter how inadvertent.

when I mentioned that perhaps I should find another woman in the meantime ...she hit the roof.

As strange as this sounds, I find this jealousy on her part, albeit unfair, to be encouraging.

I mean, if she didn't love me, why would she care? Gina also said, "If you love me, you'll put our sex on hold and wait for me to go through this."

Gina may well love you. She can feel however she wants to about it, and may choose to share sex with whoever she wants (or doesn't want to) - that is her prerogative. However, her words and attitude ARE unquestionably unfair. She is holding you to ransom with her IF you love me you'll do as I say ultimatum. So... what is she saying here: if you DON'T willingly do exactly as she demands, it means you don't love her? That is a piece of BS emotional blackmail and she must know it.

Strangely, Gina continues to sleep in the nude with me, and shows no signs of wanting to ease away from our intimacy in other respects. We still shower together frequently, and she still wants me to wash her all over as we have always done. A couple of times, this has been torture for me, but I have let Gina know that I am honoring her request to temporarily put our sex life on hold while she works through her sexual "whirlwind."

My intent is to not "hound" her for sexual intimacy, but to simply wait for her to initiate things again when she feels ready. I hope it's soon.

Inadvertantly or otherwise, it sounds like your wife is either trying to get back at you for the feelings of sexual frustration she had been experiencing in your relationship (part of the "blame" you were talking about radicaljd) - OR - trying to reignite your interest in her and/or sex, by withholding sexual intercourse/pleasure from you while at the same time, sleeping nude in the same bed, allowing you to touch her intimately at showertime etc (in other words, teasing you by playing the disingenuous temptress). She may be doing this subconsciously or consciously, in the hopes it will eventually cause you to make more of an "effort" to please her physically, when she eventually allows you full access to her body again.

It's possible that she is completely clueless, of course, but there are very few people who wouldn't see this behaviour as a deliberate attempt to arouse/deny you on a regular basis. By going along with it, you may be unwittingly playing into some kind of enforced cuckold scene.

 

[Magdlyn]

Oh... damn my luck, Magdlyn, but I feel you're on the wrong page here.

Yeah, I didn't see his post somehow before I posted.

 

[radicaljd]

Yeah, I didn't see his post somehow before I posted.

I think that's because I am still being moderated, so there's a delay before my post appears.

 

[Magdlyn]

I think that's because I am still being moderated, so there's a delay before my post appears.

Ah, that's probably it.

As for your description of sleeping naked and showering together without being allowed to fuck, I can relate. My partner Pixi always sleeps nude. She likes to shower together. She loves to cuddle and French kiss. I ALWAYS get aroused by these activities, but she very often does not! Even the French kissing usually doesn't lead to getting our genitals involved. And it's not the scenario you have, where she has NRE for someone new, not at all. She just has a lower libido and more sexual repressions, and different hormones (estrogen in her body, no longer in mine since I am post menopausal).

She is also handicapped and needs help putting on her bra, trying on new clothes in stores, etc. So I touch her body in intimate ways often, but it doesnt lead to orgasms for me every time, far from it.

I've kind of gotten used to our differing libidos over the years, but it was "torture" in our first couple of years. Compensating for our differing libidos is a major reason I am poly. Not the only reason, but important. And she likes me having lovers. It takes the pressure off her to satisfy me, which oddly, ironically, lessens her performance anxiety and increases her libido!

I hope as your wife's new relationship evolves, the one you have with her also does. You can't always get exactly what you want when you want it. Cooperation is crucial. Your wife may have (unconscious or not) built up resentment over her higher libido going largely unsatisfied for a long time. She is reveling in her NRE sex. Her hormones are going wild. This is pretty common in polyamory. It's as confusing for her as it may be frustrating for you. It takes time and effort on everyone's part to get it to the well oiled machine stage. Things are going to be awkward and seem unfair and frustrating sometimes. Patience is key.

 

[Magdlyn]

So for the record, I don't think your wife is "emotionally blackmailing" you, or turning you into a "cuckold."

Her hormones and emotions are all over the map. Her coping skills have been untried. She knows you have a much lower libido than she does. Maybe she thinks a little "torture" for you for 2 months, is nothing compared to the "torture" she endured for many YEARS when you two were mono, and her needs for sex went unmet. You like sex once a week or maybe twice a month. She desires sex EVERY DAY! Imagine all the days weeks months and years she lived with the female equivalent of blue balls. And give her some space now that she's got a lover who is giving her enough sex.

That's my take on it anyway.

 

[GalaGirl]

I don't think my suggestion changes much.

I could be wrong, but I'm not getting the vibe that you are unwilling to poly. Like "No, I don't want to be in a V ever."

I'm getting more the vibe like "I'm up for it, provided my side of the V doesn't get short changed."

Is that correct?

You got some bits of other information from Gina -- that she hates sharing sex with you and having her mind drift off to BF. And that she's overwhelmed. And that she doesn't want you to start dating right now.

What means right now -- I cannot tell.

• Is it that she's willing to poly, but finding that she is not actually ABLE to handle being a hinge? And be PRESENT with both partners?
  
• Is it that she wants a double standard, but doesn't want to admit it? Open for her but not for you?
  
• Is it that she's falling out of love with you, but unwilling to say so at this time?

But I think letting some time pass will answer all those.

Gina also said, "If you love me, you'll put our sex on hold and wait for me to go through this."

I don't care for how she framed it. To me love is shared. It doesn't have to be "proven" over and over and it isn't use like a bargaining chip. But I don't think this is the best time to delve into that side trip.

I would be charitable and assume positive intent and that Gina was feeling upset and talking upset blahblah rather than talking anything logical. But I'd also note it -- is this the start of a trend? Flipping things around on you? A habit of blame shifting?

I still think you could be generous and grant the request. Wait the 2 mos and say "Alright. You made a request. I'm gonna give it. Then we will check in at the end of the 2 months." And leave it there. Don't say anything else. It's 2 months, not 2 years.

Or if you want to be 1 month, you have a voice. Use it. Say "I don't want to do 2 months and then check in. I can do 1 month and then check in." Speak up for yourself.

But I'm like that. I don't love shenanigans, and I don't love bitty check ins that go nowhere and don't really do anything but keep everyone cranked up with circle conversations. Nobody catches a break or rest like that.

Some things just take some TIME. I'd be willing to wait 2 mos to see how we each feel. It's either going to be just as muddy or more clear at the check in point.

I also rather give people a long enough rope. Then they can either get it together or hang themselves with it. What they cannot do is say I was a meanie because I granted their request for some space. (That flip it around on me thing.)

In your shoes, that's what I would do. Grant the request, sit tight, and then wait and see what she does with it.

• Not make any more changes right this minute.
  
• Not leap to a divorce or break up.
  
• Not leap to dating people yourself.

More info may emerge to better help you determine what is actually going on here with her.

Which can help you make a final decision about whether or not you want to keep participating in this V with Gina or not.

And what that might mean -- going back to Closed or parting ways.

But don't jump the gun, and don't let anxiety fuel run away thoughts.

Take it one thing at a time. It is not always a comfortable thing to take the time. But I don't think this situation would be best served by rushing.

Take the time.

Not because you are a cuckhold,not because you don't get a voice in the things that concern you.... but because it might be better to to let the time pass to gather more data, and see what you actually have on your hands than spend too much time guessing at it with Internet strangers.

Gina's already all over the map. Adding more "all over the map" by guessing at it... I don't think that is helpful.

My intent is to not "hound" her for sexual intimacy, but to simply wait for her to initiate things again when she feels ready. I hope it's soon.

Then I will hope that it is soon too. I will hope she gets it together so she can communicate more clearly without all this emotional hooha and things go back to normal or better. Then she can stop feeling so up and downy and you can stop fearing she's going to push you away.

I will hope this is a temporary thing while she's coping with how to be a hinge.

If it is something else? Time will tell you that. And you can deal with that thing at THAT future point in time.

Galagirl

 

[radicaljd]

Well, Gina's NRE with her boyfriend isn't showing any signs of waning. This past (extended) weekend, Gina and I had a pre-planned trip to go to a beach resort, about 300 miles away. I had been hoping that this would be a chance for Gina and I to rekindle our sexual connection, though I didn't tell her.

At the last minute, Gina asked me if her boyfriend could come along with us, since she hated being away from him for 4 days. I didn't want to seem negative, so I went along with that idea.

We had a nice time, and Gina's boyfriend was perfectly gracious, but Gina seems to enjoy "rubbing my nose" in her relationship with her boyfriend. For example, Gina insisted that we get a room with a king bed, and that she sleep in the middle. After I rolled over to sleep, Gina and her boyfriend proceeded to have sex right there beside me. I pretended to be asleep, but truthfully, it was quite frustrating to me.

I haven't discussed my sense of frustration with Gina. I'm afraid that if I complain, she'll just start having sex with me out of "sympathy" or "duty," instead of genuine desire. On the other hand, I wonder if my lack of complaint may be interpreted as my total lack of interest.

 

[icesong]

OK, seriously, without prior discussion that was _not_ _ok_. You didn't ask to be involved in that particular sexual encounter, nor did you consent to be. (Knight and Sunshine did this once upon a time, thinking I was asleep, and I just about hit the roof even though I was in a relationship with Sunshine at the time and in fact had had a threesome the night before - this is so much more a violation!)

I would say something NOW, as a totally independent question from whether or not the two of you have a sexual relationship.

 

[Tinwen]

Dude, I'm usually the person to speak apologetically about whatever misbehavior trying to attribute it to either a honest error or plain human weakness, but you should not accept this. Put up some boundaries!

What will you do the next time she asks you to take her bf on a vacation you've been looking forward to?
What will you do the next time when she asks you to sleep in one bed with her bf?
What will you do if they have sex around you?

You don't have to be lying there feeling yucky. Could get up and tell them to stop (or slam the door) at the very least.

Seriously, all of that sounds awfully disrespectful. Don't let people walk all over you, even (especially) when they are your partners who are supposed to care for you!

I'm tempted to say break up. You don't have to be that radical. But speak up! You're gonna be awfully unhappy in this (or any) relationship if you never advocate for yourself.

 

[opalescent]

WOW, your wife is being terribly cruel to you. That is not acceptable behavior.

Do you always give her whatever she wants? Is that a long standing pattern of your marriage?

Say no. Tell her clearly when you do not want to do something. It is ok to be ‘negative’. Poly does not mean you accept whatever she’s asking for. You get to have boundaries too. You get to have your own wishes and desires.

I hope she accepts your ‘no’s gracefully.

Sometimes when people don’t want to be the ‘bad guy’ and end a relationship, they act in ways that push the other partner to break up with them. This is not always fully conscious behavior. I fear this is what Gina is doing, consciously or not.

Regardless, you need to act the same. Tell her no when you do not want something. Even if your marriage is over - and I hope this is not the case - saying no and having boundaries will help you immensely over the course of your life.

 

[kdt26417]

I agree with opalescent, your wife is being terribly cruel to you.

 

[lunabunny]

I rarely self-reference, but in light of what has just transpired between you all, I think this was a pretty good guess as to Gina's current mindset and behaviour:

Gina may well love you. ... However, her words and attitude ARE unquestionably unfair. She is holding you to ransom with her IF you love me you'll do as I say ultimatum. So... what is she saying here: if you DON'T willingly do exactly as she demands, it means you don't love her? That is a piece of BS emotional blackmail and she must know it.


Inadvertantly or otherwise, it sounds like your wife is either trying to get back at you for the feelings of sexual frustration she had been experiencing in your relationship (part of the "blame" you were talking about radicaljd) - OR - trying to reignite your interest in her and/or sex, by withholding sexual intercourse/pleasure from you while at the same time, sleeping nude in the same bed, allowing you to touch her intimately at showertime etc (in other words, teasing you by playing the disingenuous temptress). She may be doing this subconsciously or consciously, in the hopes it will eventually cause you to make more of an "effort" to please her physically, when she eventually allows you full access to her body again.

It's possible that she is completely clueless, of course, but there are very few people who wouldn't see this behaviour as a deliberate attempt to arouse/deny you on a regular basis. By going along with it, you may be unwittingly playing into some kind of enforced cuckold scene.

In fact her latest stunt is beyond brazen. I would barely credit someone would have either enough gall OR total cluelessness except for the fact that much the same thing happened to me with an ex, many many years ago. He at least had the "excuse" of being really young and inexperienced/stupid, and drunk to boot.

I'm really not sure what Gina is playing at here, but unless you want things to continue in this vein or get a whole lot worse, you NEED to draw some firm boundaries and ACT on them! Everything about this is so so wrong. There is just the smallest chance Gina believes, or has convinced herself, that it is acceptable or even that you might enjoy it/get off on playing this role, but I'm more inclined to believe she just doesn't have your interests or well being in mind at all.