Do you have a friend who disagrees with polyamory?

[edpsy77]

Glad we see the bigotry

Well, the Spartans were basically extremely Poly.
I have a feeling we have some way to go... lol

WonderinGuy I agree. There is a lot of bigotry against poly. Surprisingly some people on this board think I am overexaggerating this fact. I mean go to the average workplace and proclaim you have two girlfriends. Even if you had them for 20 years, many vanillas won't think you are as dedicated to your partner than someone who is monogamous with a partner. As a matter of fact they won't think you are truly dedicated. For crying out loud, they would accuse you of not making a "commitment."

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from edpsy77):

"The bottom line is most people would be opposed to their partner having sex with someone else and would struggle on why anyone would allow it."

What's the point and purpose of all that struggling? One does not need to understand poly in order to accept it. All one needs to know is that the poly is being done with the full knowledge and consent of all involved parties. Again, I say, consenting adults. YKINMKBYKIOK. That's all any mono needs to understand. The rest is extra credit.

 

[River]

Re (from edpsy77):


What's the point and purpose of all that struggling? One does not need to understand poly in order to accept it. All one needs to know is that the poly is being done with the full knowledge and consent of all involved parties. Again, I say, consenting adults. YKINMKBYKIOK. That's all any mono needs to understand. The rest is extra credit.

I had to look up that very long acronym. "Your Kink Is Not My Kink But Your Kink Is Ok."

You know, I don't think of polyamory as "kinky," but I'm sure some folks do. Like the words "romance" and "friend" -- and FWB --, the word "kink" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kink_(sexuality)

I tend to strongly associate the word 'kink' with fetishism and sexual play / games involving power play / exchanges / role playing, and the like (e.g., BDSM), so I was surprised when one of my friends said she thought a very vanilla three-way was "kinky".

Now, of course, some will say "How can a three way possibly be vanilla?!" and they'd be making my point -- which is that kink is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm pretty vanilla, and ... have you ever had home made ice cream made with vanilla beans? OMG! YUM!

 

[kdt26417]

Homemade ice cream is always superb. Now stop making me hungry.

Sometimes poly is considered a kind of kink, that's true even on FetLife. But even if one doesn't consider poly to be a kink, the YKINMKBYKIOK acronym still works in a metaphorical way; kink is a metaphor for poly ... and for mono. "My 'kink' is mono, your 'kink' is poly. My 'kink' is not your 'kink,' but my kink is okay and so is yours." In other words, live and let live. I don't have to understand how/why poly works for you in order to accept it. It's enough that poly adheres to the SSC acronym: Safe, Sane, and Consensual. (Which I also borrow from the kink world.)

 

[edpsy77]

Re (from edpsy77):


What's the point and purpose of all that struggling? One does not need to understand poly in order to accept it. All one needs to know is that the poly is being done with the full knowledge and consent of all involved parties. Again, I say, consenting adults. YKINMKBYKIOK. That's all any mono needs to understand. The rest is extra credit.

I agree. There should be no struggling on this issue but that is not REALITY. My mom would not accept poly and it would be a MAJOR dividing point in our relationship if I practiced poly. This is not just a simple difference in opinion such as pro-anti abortion, pro-anti death penalty or even pro-anti Donald Trump.

Monos believe that polyamory is a counterfeit form of relationships and it can never be seen as equal to true love in monogamy. The result of this bullshit is not only some nasty ass remarks on a YouTube video about polyamory but mono granddads and grand moms getting custody of children because their child or in-laws set up a poly raising family structure. Furthermore, poly people out of the closet are getting fired from their job due to their employers' morals clause. We can even add in the fact that many poly folks on this board have had friendships terminated over poly.

Even though I had inclination that many of these things do happen to poly folks before looking at supporting research, it is a fact that there is plenty of information on anti-poly bias and negative unmerited consequences poly people face everyday. Although it is not effective to obsess about the reality of this situation, I don't agree that simply having a successful poly relationship is enough to overcome the blatant and subtle bigotry many poly people face and will unfortunately face.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

Monos believe that polyamory is a counterfeit form of relationships and it can never be seen as equal to true love in monogamy. The result of this bullshit is not only some nasty ass remarks on a YouTube video about polyamory but mono granddads and grand moms getting custody of children because their child or in-laws set up a poly raising family structure. Furthermore, poly people out of the closet are getting fired from their job due to their employers' morals clause. We can even add in the fact that many poly folks on this board have had friendships terminated over poly.

.

Up until now, I've just been merely scratching my head as to why you are getting so heated up about this. Prejudice towards those who are "different"is as old as time. Luckily, society as a whole is leaning towards a "live and let live" approach. Yes, we still have the Christian right, but the Millennials are coming up who have the attitude, "Meh, whatever. You do your thing, and I'll do mine." (I'm 49, by the way; I'm hoping the Millennials can save society and this planet from us dinosaurs.)

But NOW you are brushing ALL monos with the same brushstroke, as written in your quote. I've had poly leanings in the past, but realized I could not devote myself to more than one person with any success. My husband, who is firmly mono and pretty religious (no, I can't prove he's not cheating, which isn't poly, anyway), was accepting of me trying to figure things out for myself rather than douse me in gasoline and lighting me on fire for my heresy.

You appear to like making arguments for the sake of argument, and I just don't understand that. There are plenty of people on this board who are full-on out about their poly arrangements and are just LIVING LIFE. I don't want to offer up anyone on the alter of proof, but there really are plenty of them whose blogs I read faithfully.

As for the other issues which you don't seem are as all-important, such as reproductive rights, it would behoove you to realize that the loss of autonomy over your own body is very much up in the air at the moment. That scares the living crap out of me, that I have to worry about that for my daughters.

But you do you; if you want to keep tilting at windmills, knock yourself out.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi edpsy,

I know from your intro post that you have a passion for defending poly and the rights of polys everywhere. This is a good thing, I believe that poly/polys need/s activism to help move humanity to a place of more acceptance. I am not inclined to lecture you against doing that, I think you are doing a good and necessary thing and for my part I want to say thank you. I myself am too chicken/lazy to leap into the fray and confront the anti-polys directly. I content myself with posting on this forum, those who are interested can come here and find out what I have to say. That has its own value, though I would hesitate to think it counts more than the activist route.

You are right to say that in this world, there are real and awful consequences for living polyamorously. That in fact is the reason why so many polys are in the closet about it. I suppose all those nasty anti-poly remarks under the YouTube videos are part of the cause of the problem, but they're also a symptom, that is, they and the judges who take away the polys' children have a common cause, and that is the social programming/brainwashing that pervades life in this world and goes to work on the children starting at a tender young age.

The cycle continues when those children grow up and have children of their own, but it's not just parents. It's friends, relatives, and media influence. Just think of all the Disney movies that are packed with happily-ever-after tales of monogamous couples. That sort of thing plants a strong suggestion in a young child's mind. And let's not forget the influence of religion, knowing your priest/pastor forbids nonmonogamy, not to mention witnessing countless monogamous weddings, and zero poly weddings, a reminder that polygamy is *illegal.* That all adds up to an awful lot of peer pressure. Pressure to believe in exclusive monogamy. Pressure to side against nonmonogamy. Constant and neverending pressure, for all of one's life. One has to buck pretty hard to get out from under that system.

I am not surprised that so many people speak against polyamory. What surprises me is that polyamory is actually gaining ground in the overall public debate. For a look at that minor miracle, visit Alan's Poly in the News pages. Alan posts, on a regular basis, the increasing influence of poly in articles, movies, and other media. You might want to direct some of your anti-poly "friends" to Alan's site, so that they can see a bit of the other side. Heck the fact that any pro-poly YouTube videos exist in the first place is a hopeful sign. Those anti-polys wouldn't be posting their nasty remarks if they didn't have a pro-poly YouTube video to post them under.

This world has a long way to go in the acceptance of poly. I would say the disapproval percentage is about 90%. But that's 10% approval where it used to be 1%. The present looks shitty, but the future looks hopeful. Humanity will grow up. It might not happen during this generation, but I believe it will happen in future generations. As I've said elsewhere, people are already starting to come around on the homosexuality debate. Polyamory will have its turn in the sun. And make no mistake, the efforts of brave souls such as yourself will help make this dream a reality. So again I say, thanks.

I think it's important to know what the anti-polys are saying. I (for one) need to understand where they're coming from. Otherwise how will I ever know how to respond? and even on this little poly haven (this forum), the poly-versus-antipoly debate continues. So I appreciate all that you have posted on this forum so far, you are bringing us news from the battlefront. Anyway that's my opinion.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[opalescent]

To go way back to the original question, I really don't have unsupportive - or at least neutral - friends around ethical non-monogamy. I live in this little bubble where being poly is more the norm. I do have friends who are monogamous. However, it's a conscious choice for them and they don't assume it's the only way. It's just their way. And I have poly friends who have the attitude - this is best for me but it's not the only way out there. I've been out long enough in poly circles that many people have burned through their 'poly is great and everyone should do it!' stage and are now more accepting of whatever works for people.

Yes, people are not accepting in the broader society and discrimination happens. I'm working against that discrimination as best I can by being as out as I can. I'm not out completely - someday I hope to be. It's a work in progress. It is not an obvious process but all those people being out to friends, family, coworkers, etc. have contributed greatly to the greater media attention being paid to polyamory. The more people who realize they have options other than default monogamy, the more people come out and so the cycle continues. It's not an automatic thing. Progress can and does stop or reverse. I worry about that with the current administration since they pander to the worst in people. But I worry more about racial and ethnic minorities being murdered than I do poly people being discriminated against. It's not good at all and a horrible thing to experience but I feel there are worse things to guard and organize against. However, I also subscribe to the unitary theory of social justice which is basically we all move forward together or we die separately.

 

[kdt26417]

You're right opal, people coming out of the closet is definitely helpful in getting poly to be more accepted ... in fact it's probably the *most* helpful thing anyone can do. When you know someone personally who is poly, it is a lot harder to condemn them than it is to condemn the poly in strangers you've never met. I know my (conservative Utah) family has made great strides toward accepting homosexuality due to having a prominent and respected cousin who is out as gay. I feel bad that I am not doing my part, but my V companions are scared to death of outing themselves, to anyone.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

I had to look up that very long acronym. "Your Kink Is Not My Kink But Your Kink Is Ok."

I had to look it up too!

You know, I don't think of polyamory as "kinky," ...

I tend to strongly associate the word 'kink' with fetishism and sexual play / games involving power play / exchanges / role playing, and the like (e.g., BDSM), so I was surprised when one of my friends said she thought a very vanilla three-way was "kinky".

Yup. My standard line is "It's not kinky if I do it." The way I see it - I just like regular (vanilla) stuff, just with more than one person, and sometimes with more than one person at the same time.

 

[River]

I had to look it up too!

Yup. My standard line is "It's not kinky if I do it." The way I see it - I just like regular (vanilla) stuff, just with more than one person, and sometimes with more than one person at the same time.

YKINMKBYKIOK is EASY to google / look up. Some other acronyms, especially the very short ones, are not. (There are very good, logical and mathematical reasons for this!) Some people understand this. Others do not. If you don't understand this and have a grudge against someone you can use "ignorance" as ammunition and go to war against those who JDU.

Just Don't Understand.

Well, that happened here once. You may not understand. Or you might. Who knows?

 

[vinsanity0]

Kevin has it right. It doesn't matter what kinky means in this context. The point is "You do something different than me. I would never do it, but it's cool that you enjoy that."

Terms like kinky and vanilla have different meanings within different communities. I remember when I first saw swingers use the word vanilla. I thought it was funny because to me they were vanilla.

I used to refer to my wife as pistachio because she was somewhere between vanilla and kink.

Finally, I am reminded of something I heard a guy say once while describing perceptions. To one person kinky might mean using a feather, to another it means using the whole chicken.