Not sure if this is polyamory or just voyeurism

C

candaules

New member
First a little about my wife and me. We have been married over five years, and dated two years prior. She is late 30s and I am just past 40. We have a small child. Both of us are full time professionals and work hard to balance the demands of work and life. Neither of us are Barbie and Ken. She is a very beautiful fair-skinned blonde, with blue eyes and a nice bust. She will complain about the baby weight she has, but I think she is a goddess. As for me, I am showing my age, balding and overweight.

Given that we have a small child, and the demands of work, we have a pretty good sex life together and enjoy being able to have some time to enjoy ourselves. My only wish would be more frequency, but I am grateful for what we have. I have always felt that for me to enjoy sex my wife must enjoy herself as well, and I enjoy being oral with her very much and seeing her climax. She in turn is very passionate in the bedroom and when she gets going, can be quite intense.

The thought of her enjoying herself with another man (and him enjoying himself with her) arouses me a great deal. It has since even before we were married. For me, I will certainly notice women I see as attractive, but have no interest in having sex with anyone, but my wife. I have been doing a lot of reading to help me understand this. I also have read Sperm Wars by Robin Baker, which I must recommend to anyone with an interest in this topic. I find that evolutionary biology to be a plausible explanation for this, as well as female vs. male physiology. Women are built for sex with multiple males at a time, or in short sequence. This is harder for us men who need time to “reload." This makes it easier for a woman to have multiple males.

In many ways, this is an extension of me wanting to give her pleasure and fulfillment. I imagine my wife enjoying variety and the freedom to sample it. I enjoy the thought of her enjoying seeing a man she finds attractive naked, seeing how the sight of her arouses him. I enjoy the thought of her touching and exploring another man, perhaps someone who is fit and trim. I enjoy the idea of her getting pleasure from kissing and feeling his touch. Her seeing how he responds to her and her to him. I enjoy the thought of her feeling her body against his. Her feeling him push into her, the different feeling of his penis inside her. The new and different positions she gets to discover and enjoy. I enjoy the thought of her climaxing from him and then enjoying being in his arms afterward.

When I see my wife naked, I imagine other men enjoying her beauty. When I touch her and she touches me I imagine her and another man enjoying that. During sex, I imagine her enjoying another man, him enjoying pushing his bare penis into her, her enjoying feeling him. I imagine him enjoying the view of her breasts moving with each thrust. He feels her great body against him, feeling himself going in deeper as she pushes her hands against the head of the bed. As I cum inside her, I imagine another man enjoying the sensation as he cums inside her. I enjoy the thought of another man helping her climax and him enjoying the sight, sound and feeling as she does.

I imagine a variety of scenarios where this might happen. Perhaps on a girls night out she meets someone, leaves with him at the end of the evening, enjoys some hot sex with him, and comes home for hot sex with me, and telling me all about her evening and her new friend. She does travel to another city a few hours away from us for business on a regular basis. I imagine her meeting a local guy there and inviting him to spend the night with her in her hotel room. I imagine her having a boyfriend whom she dates and then comes home to enjoy being with me. Having a guy she is interested in over to our home for dinner, seeing her all made up and in a sexy dress. The three of us enjoying wine, food and good conversation all the while they are eying one another. Afterwards, I can see the the two of them going into our bedroom, him leaving later thanking me for a wonderful evening, telling me how lucky I am. I imagine a number of scenarios where I get sloppy seconds and taking pleasure in knowing she is enjoying herself.

She is well aware of my desire for her to enjoy other men. I have brought it up during sex and after, as well as outside of the bedroom. I feel secure in her love for me and our relationship, and am not jealous of her flirting with other men, which she appreciates very much. When she goes out for girls nights, she likes having other men chat her up, flirt with her, buy her drinks. I have enjoyed her flirting with other men when out with her, seeing her enjoy the attention of other men. While she comes home and tells me all about it, her friends whose husbands/boyfriends don’t trust them and/or get jealous envy her being able to share this with me.

Before the baby, she would often go out in nice tight-fitting low-cut tops, full make up, jeans and boots. Often if I was working late or out with my friends, she would go out with her friends for dinner and drinks. I really liked seeing her before and after and the idea of another man approaching her, flirting and perhaps enjoying her charm. I liked the idea of her enjoying a nice time with her friends, free drinks from guys, flirting and perhaps more. I also really enjoyed the sex after these evenings out and aforementioned imaginings of her enjoying another man.

When I bring up the topic, she laughs, thinks I am crazy/silly, and says it will not happen. I do notice her checking out other men who, like the men she dated before me, are quite racially diverse, including Latin, East Indian, African American and Middle Eastern men. (I am white.) When she goes out, I tell her to stay out as late as she wants, have fun and enjoy the free drinks.

I talk about her enjoying taking a lover. She says, "Who would go for me?" and laughs it off. She feels that infidelity is very wrong and is dead set against it, but at the same time talks about friends of hers who were not meant for monogamy. When we saw Brokeback Mountain, the disturbing part for her was the marital infidelity, not the gay men being lovers. She says she would never be with another man. I am slowly introducing the concept of sexual freedom for her while being married to me doesn’t have to hurt what we have. Like others, here in this forum I see it as an opportunity to enhance what we have. However, I am not going to push or force anything. I will continue to enjoy what we have while letting her know she can enjoy herself if she so chooses. I am going to make sure she understands I am okay with her getting to enjoy the best of being in a loving and secure marriage while embracing nature.

I am interested to hear from others suggestions on how to communicate that the door is open while not pressuring her.
 
I was probably in a similar spot to your wife, very unsure, if not against the whole concept. However, my hubby kept listening to podcasts and gaining new info. Sometimes on road trips we listened to them together. He never pushed... just, um, quietly talked. Apparently I listened.
When a friend of ours opened up a bit about her own sexual exploration, I seized the opportunity and asked if she would be interested in 'de-flowering' us. ;) It was a big step, and she and I both actually resisted for a while in fear that it would ruin our friendship. Three months later, here we are.

From what I can see in this new world, it appears that the female partner almost always directs the action. So I would recommend just talking about your desires openly, with absolutely no pressure placed on her, then, just get out and start meeting people, if there is no one in your circle of friends that may already fit the bill.
 
It has taken me a while to reply to this because I was trying to figure out whether or not you are on the level.

I would say that there is no way this is polyamory. You are voyeuristic. If you could talk your wife into it swinging would be your thing, I'm sure.

Sorry, but you worry me.
 
Sexual fantasies involving multiple partners and polyamory are two different things. Could you see your wife falling in love with the other man? Being married to you and in love with him too? The sexual fantasy about seeing your wife with another man is much more common than most men would admit. It's an exciting fantasy for me too, but it's not polyamory, at least not on its own.
 
It does sound like the OP is more interested in watching or hearing about his wife having sex with other men than in one or both of them pursuing intimate relationships (i.e. falling in love) with other people. While this "voyeurism" is not "anti-poly" is it not "poly" in and of itself.

Ok, folks. This is the part where you berate me for "judging" people.
 
Hmm

Neon, If you really want me to, I can berate you via PM. ;) But let's focus on the OP's kinks for now, shall we?

I admit I had to skip through some of the original post because it was really graphic, and definitely a fantasy. I wondered if you were just on here jerking off.

I am interested to hear from others suggestions on how to communicate that the door is open while not pressuring her.
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Have you ever laid out for her just how far this fantasy has developed in your head? That would be a good place to start. Also realize that this fantasy is your need and not necessarily hers, so approach it that way. Perhaps the two of you could find a way to satiate your fantasy without you putting her outside of her comfort zone.

Whatever you do, be sure that anything that happens is something she wants, not something she is doing for you. It sounds like you feel very lucky to be loved by this woman, and that is the grounding fact that hopefully allows you to focus on what is real and mutually beneficial. You come off as a bit obsessed, and that can be very harmful if you can't keep it in check.
 
NeonKaos said:
Ok, folks. This is the part where you berate me for "judging" people.
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Berate, berate, berate.

I'd spank you if you weren't so far away.
 
candaules said:
I also have read Sperm Wars by Robin Baker, which I must recommend to anyone with an interest in this topic. I find that evolutionary biology to be a plausible explanation for this as well as female vs. male physiology. Women are built for sex with multiple males at a time or in short sequence. This is harder for us men who need time to “reload”. This makes it easier for a woman to have multiple males.
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That sounds like a good book; care to add it to the link on book recommendations?

As to your post on the whole, the great detail you added about your fantasy made me think I was reading something on Fetlife. I love your kink here. What a great fetish and what a lucky woman to be on the end of it. You sound quite submissive to her sexually, and that turns me on, for sure!

I agree with the poster who added that one should be very careful to not create a situation whereby your wife does things to please you and not herself. Perhaps in time she will warm to the idea, but it sounds like she is quite happy with what she has in you and her life. It might just be that she isn't interested in what you are in this way.

Have you thought of finding a girlfriend who is? Someone who you don't even necessarily have to have sex with. Just a wonderful deep connection with the addition of her gratifying your sexual desires for her to take lovers. (I know I would willingly do this.) There are bound to be others. I would have no problem friending someone that likes to hear my stories and perhaps watch me and my loves have sex, because it turns them on. Dressing up for them, having them watch me at a bar at a distance-- I would get off on that greatly. So, there is bound to be someone near you that you could meet. What would your wife think of that?

I would suggest doing some research on voyeurism from a fetish/kink, point of view, as I think this is closer to that than polyamory. I heard no mention of your wife falling in love, scheduling anther relationship, negotiating another relationship and adjusting your life to fit another, which is more what polyamory is. Perhaps if she were into swinging that would be a start. Again though, it sounds like she loves you and the life she has and wants nothing more than she has just now.
 
The book Sex at Dawn mentions that "watching a woman with other men" thing, and how it's based on instinct. If it's about the sexual aspect only, I would say it is swinging territory. If you think that want for her to be happy and fulfilled, be it with you or someone else, can extend to emotions (as in, watching her be in love would make you very happy), then that would make you a "poly-friendly" partner, although you seem mono yourself. This being said, it seems from your post that it's only on a sexual level.

I can't say I find your case weird. Not only do I know many many guys in your case, but Sex at Dawn explains how it came to be. You mention it in your post, the fact that the species is adapted to females having multiple partners.

I think one thing here is important though: you would enjoy it, but maybe she wouldn't. It is your fantasy here, not hers. While it's good to make her understand you're fine with it, she needs to know she doesn't have to ever do it, and you need to accept that maybe she doesn't want to. You said that you have no interest in doing the same thing, after all.

Also, you need to keep in mind that there would be a third person: the other man. Someone who has feelings, expectations, etc., and might not want to feel used as a sex toy.

And finally, there is the possibility that this arouses you extremely as a fantasy, but that you would actually hate it if it happened. While you seem to be very aroused by the idea, it's still possible that seeing it would awaken weird, conflicting emotions. So I would say, make sure you're comfortable with it 100% and it's not one of these fantasies that are only arousing as long as they stay fantasies.

Polyamory focuses on the emotional aspect of things, so I would say you could get more advice in another forum that is more sex-focused, not that we don't talk about sex here, mind you!

Good luck.
 
Tonberry said:
I can't say I find your case weird.
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I love weird. heh :D

Tonberry said:
Also, you need to keep in mind that there would be a third person: the other man. Someone who has feelings, expectations, etc, and might not want to feel used as a sex toy.
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I would suspect that any man who is involved would agree to being a sex toy and enjoy that. I would hope that your wife would respect him, and tell him what the expectation is, so that he can decide if he wants to be involved, that is, if it is to become a long-term thing with a play partner. The scenario of her going out and finding a man for a one-nighter is different.

The whole thing with kink is to respect people, yet be creative and explore that. It isn't weird, it's fun-- fun to let your mind go to places that are deemed "wrong." Treading slowly and checking motives is important, never pushing agendas or forcing. Everyone must be willing. That is what I am concerned about here.

Sure, it might not be for everyone, but I believe there is room for everyone's kinks, as long as boundaries are respected and the real nasty stuff that society doesn't like is kept at bay, and is respected as play, not as reality, or something one can do with unwilling participants.
 
Just adding my echo to what Tonberry and Redpepper have said. Personally, I have this same kink in a big way. But in my mind, polyamory only would start if this kink became something more serious between your wife and her sex partner. That's me talking only; there is considerable difference of opinion about what is polyamory and what isn't.

And it sure does sound like your fantasy, not hers. It's not fair to push her into it, if so.

I really like Redpepper's idea of finding a gf (sexual or non-sexual) to share this sort of voyeurism with. Also it would be a safer emotional venue to explore it with someone who wasn't as important to you as your wife. Any idea how she would react to this idea? If nothing else, talking about it might help her understand just how serious you are about wanting this.

Side note to Redpepper:

I would have no problem friending someone that likes to hear my stories and perhaps watch me and my loves have sex because it turns them on. Dressing up for them, having them watch me at a bar at a distance-- I would get off on that greatly.
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That is so fucking hot. I would totally love to be on either side of that, as the voyeur or the exhibitionist.
 
Thanks

I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies here. I understand that this isn't polyamory. For me the excitement is the pleasure she would get and enjoy. If she isn't doing it for herself, then what is the point? I don't want her to do this just for me.

I would like to see this as driver to more intimacy, sex, and togetherness for us.

As I said, I make it clear that I don't mind her flirting with and enjoying attention from other males. I encourage it. I make a point of telling her to enjoy herself and her free drinks.

She has also responded during sex in a couple ways. Once on a vacation to a resort she headed up to our room alone while I stayed with our child down at the pool so she could take a nap. We came up an hour or so later to find her in bed naked and asleep. After putting the baby down for a nap, I joined her in bed and she woke up. We started making out. I was telling her how beautiful she was, and how sexy it was to find her in bed naked. She said something to the effect that perhaps another guy already beat me to the punch. That really charged things up. I told her I hoped, that if that were the case that she enjoyed herself.

I imagine us being at the beach or pool. She meets a guy she finds attractive, and then I see her take him up to our room alone. I go up a while later to not only find her sleeping naked in our bed, but smelling the sex and seeing the damp sheets.

Recently during sex I told her how the idea of her taking a lover and enjoying herself made me hot. She then went on to say, oh you mean my "Portuguese Lover" and we both went on from there a bit about him. She was laughing while saying this, thinking I was silly.

So she has started to play along somewhat and seems to like pushing my buttons.

I will continue to let her know the door is open.
 
This is a bit off topic, but I just read the book you referenced in your first post, Sperm Wars by Robin Baker. Parts of it were very disturbing to me, but I found all of it to be enlightening and interesting.

I'm a little confused at your interpretation as it applies to this topic though. A big part of the book stresses that men and women often have different things to gain and lose when they have sex (as it relates to their chances to reproduce and have grandchildren). From this perspective, it's hard to see how this fantasy could have positive reproductive ramifications for the man who wants to see his long-term partner have sex with another man. He would be initiating a sperm war that he might very well lose, and thus reducing his own chance of fathering another child with his partner. If he does lose the sperm war and thus his partner is impregnated with another man's baby, it's hard to see any upside for him, reproductively speaking.

Do you have another conclusion? There must be some evolutionary upside to this that I haven't thought of. Otherwise this fantasy wouldn't be common to you, me, and so many other men. :confused:
 
Tonberry said:
The book "Sex at Dawn" mentions that "watching a woman with other men" thing, )
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Watching a strange woman with a strange man, I get. Watching my partner with another male besides her husband is, for me, a great way to induce vomiting. :rolleyes:
 
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