I need help with preventing messy results

[Vinccenzo]

My husband (Taylor) and I had idealized, even before we were together, a committed non-monogamous relationship. While I always thought it sounded great, I had doubts about how many people were truly capable of living up to it. I've been in monogamous relationships before and did not find it difficult to remain faithful. I try to keep my word, no matter what.

We've been together for 6 years. We were apart for 8 months early in our relationship, and had a "don't ask, don't tell" policy then. We weathered it. When I moved back to be with him, he asked if we would continue as we had been. I said no, as I felt we needed to establish intimacy in my new surroundings. He was already familiar with the city and had already made friends. I didn't want any weirdness coming up while getting to know the friends he had made, if we were not viewed as a serious couple. I understand that many people struggle to respect unconventional relationships. We remained monogamous for 4 years. It's been really great.

I brought the open relationship subject back on the table because I thought we were in a good place to explore it again.

Taylor was happy about it. I pointed out a woman who was on the outskirts of our social circle (call her Adele), that I thought was familiar with this relationship style. I thought it would be nice for him to have an experience with someone he was familiar with, who was not likely to be confused about our arrangement.

We have friends who know about this, and some who don't. The friends we don't tell have dealt with infidelity, and are still sore about it, or are more conservative and unable to respect this lifestyle. We also don't just tell everyone about it because, well, why does everyone NEED to know?

Our boundaries starting out were:

- no one long term and/or steady (see someone steady- keep it short lived; see someone long term- only see them very occasionally; we are as yet undecided on what constitutes long term and what constitutes steady TO US)
- no spending the night
- no forcing the people we date on our friends
- no drugs
- safer sex only
- we each have veto power on whom the other sees, for whatever reason
- no out-of-town trips to see someone; no vacations with outside partners
- no dating exes
- no one is lied to about our situation
- no dating anyone who is in a relationship and sneaking around

The problems that have arisen is that the first person he went out with, Adele, he continued to see. He had a few dates with others, and slept with one, but he ended up only seeing Adele after that. It's been going for on three months now. On two occasions, he said he was not going to see her while he was out, and he ended up seeing her anyway, all this while pushing for her and me to become close friends.

We have all been intimate together, but I don't really fancy her enough to continue with that. I do enjoy her company, so I gave it a go, and even asked her to help me with the final finish to my project.

I don't have a problem with her, or really find her threatening. Our problems are due to his actions not matching his words, and that she is a big drinker. We don't drink much, so he has trouble following through with what he says will happen when he drinks around her.

(On a side note: I'm not sure how I would react to Adele being over and seeing them be affectionate in front of me, while I have removed myself from the sexual aspect of our mutual interactions. I think it would make me feel like a third wheel and compare myself to them.)

The first time he ended up seeing Adele without clearing it with me, I'd given him opportunity to make it a date night with her. He said he wasn't going to. He did anyway. My only issue with it was that I was assured it would be okay to stay up till he got home, and he did not call me when his plans changed. I went to bed not sure where he was, but suspecting he was with her.

The second time he ended up at Adele's place, after saying he would not, was, by far, much more of a blow-out than the first time. I gave understanding and communication to deal with it the first time. The second time was not a request to not see her ever, only that he put off seeing her for 5 days so there would be no weirdness coming from me while I worked with her on a project on the last of the 5 days. I had been bogged down by my deadline and missing quality time with him. I recognized within me an impulse to feel slighted in that timeframe, and only asked for help in avoiding those feelings till I had more time to devote to self-examination.

I intended to talk to Adele about it, as well, after meeting my deadline.

Instead, I got a call from her the night I asked him not to make a date, saying he was with her anyway and an intoxicated mess. She let me know he was safe, but she was putting him up for the night. I reacted poorly to this because it was HIS rule about no sleepovers, and it was still early enough that I would've had no problem picking him up if he was too intoxicated to do it himself.

I only found out after the fact that he had not requested to be put up for the night. He'd only requested for her to call me while he was dealing with his nausea. This poor communication caused most of the problem, and put a bad spin on my perception of what was happening between them.

He moped around the next day, calling himself a screw-up, doomed to fail at everything. We talked about it, and he spent that time reassuring me how important I am to him. He explained that he likes seeing her only because he doesn't have to repeat the speech on how I know what he is up to, so he doesn't have to put much time or effort into seeing her. I wanted him to stop seeing her, but took a couple of days to think on the points he made. As soon as I said I'd think on it, he brightened up and we got on better.

After a couple of days, I still felt it best that he not see her anymore. I felt that her typical level of alcohol consumption and how that affected his own drinking would continue to be problematic for us.

I wrote him a letter explaining all the reasons why I was still not okay with it, and also about what I found out he had been saying about our relationship to others. When he read it, he went right back to being upset and moping. I couldn't even try to comfort him, be affectionate, or try to lighten the subject without making him feel worse. He says he is not so much disappointed about not seeing her in that context again as he was to have all his mistakes outlined and listed so soon after he had began to feel we could fix things.

While dealing with all this, I heard from a mutual friend that my husband was over at his house bragging about how he is "living the dream" to all this friend's roommates. These are not good friends of ours, but they do know us both. I was told that they all spoke negatively about the relationship style my husband and I have, and he went further saying, "I don't care who my wife fucks. I love her, and I got a big dick; I know she will come home to me."

I am hurt by all this. I was hurt that he can't tell me he won't see her, and following through, I was further hurt by how trashily he spoke of our relationship to people who didn't need to know about it. I didn't think we started this because our relationship needed improving; I thought we were "living the dream' well before we were in an open relationship, and this was only adding to that.

I have spoken to him about all this. He acknowledges that he has really screwed up. He still wanted to see Adele, even though I wanted him to stop. and even though the two of them have made some of our friends uncomfortable with their drunken public behavior.

As for the boastful moment he had, he says it was a moment of bravado in the face of having his masculinity questioned for my seeing other men, and I can understand that. He also said he was given no choice in discussing it with them, as our mutual friend chose to make it known to his roommates for reasons I don't understand.

We are currently on hold with the open-relationship thing. I'm wondering a bit if he has always been respectful to my face, but bragging behind my back. I am also sore that I lived up to all our agreements and now I'm also shut down on it.

This has all made me wonder if we should instead take a more poly approach to things. That way, whom we see would be in communication with us both. We could also see where our limits are, rather than just claiming them out of fear and avoidance.

 

[TruckerPete]

In a nutshell, Taylor is not being honest. He is not respecting the rules/boundaries you two have and is thinking with the wrong head. It also sounds like a case of NRE (new relationship energy, if you're not familiar with the term).

You sound very committed to your relationship. The two of you need to sit down and figure out the WHY behind his transgressions. Though he's going about it in completely the wrong manner, my first instinct is that he has fallen for her, for better or worse.

 

[idealist]

Just pay attention to his actions and behaviors. Some people can talk a good talk, and if you are viewing that person based on their words alone, then things are great!! But there comes a point when we have to get into reality and look at a person's behavior. Sometimes reality sucks.

I don't know how old you are, and maybe age doesn't have anything to do with it, but just life experience. People give off subtle and not so subtle cues about their character. Pay attention. And when you see a person's character, even though it's difficult and you want to deny it (as least for a while) don't forget it.

 

[Vinccenzo]

I have let Taylor read these posts. We agree that to have a good chance of success, we need to give more acknowledgment to the people we each see. So here we go-- another couple decides to let go of the strict rules and try poly!

He is adamant that he has not fallen for Adele He is fond of her, enjoys her company. She is very aware of how important we are to each other and thinks very highly of me. I felt this from her too. We were friends with her before all this. He can see that his feelings for her were likely to grow, since we all got on before any intimacy was brought into it. I think what we've all been feeling was natural.

We both see where many of the problems could have been avoided by keeping who we see more in the loop about our agreements. Had I given time to discussing my feelings with them both, or prioritized the time I devoted to my relationship at the same level I gave my project, I really feel we would have had a much better result.

Had he kept to his own limitations of tolerance for alcohol, rather than trying to keep up with others, he would have been more mindful of calling when plans change and not getting caught thinking with the other head as much. To say he was dishonest is a bit unfair. He never lied to me about the time he spent with her. He is, however, very guilty of not living up to his word and resorting to honesty after the fact.

Adele was pretty pissed about getting caught in the splash zone of our blow-up and has removed herself from the picture to let us sort things out. I'm not fond of her drinking style, but beyond that, she is respectful and that is rare. I think I was wrong and even perhaps, motivated by ego, intentionally not keeping her aware of the concerns my husband and I discussed. How awful of me, now that I think of it! I didn't want to pay her that respect in return. I think I was in fear of placing what I perceived as a level of importance on outside partners that I initially expected only my husband and me to pay to each other. He and I left her feeling like she was a second class citizen in our attempt to assert our unity. Totally unfair.

On my end of things, I have been seeing Jack casually for a couple months. He is working in a city near ours for the next month or two. He lives in our city otherwise. Taylor would like to meet him, reflective of what we've been discussing, and I do think they will like each other. I am hopeful. Jack has some experience with this polyamory, so I think he will be comfortable coming over for an evening.

I also think I should sit down with Adele and tell her what I thought I could put off prior to all this. Some of why I stopped being sexually interested in her over may be alterable. I was, at one point, and for many years, involved with an alcoholic, so her drinking concerns me and eats at the attraction. Also, dreadlocks can smell just awful when they are not well-cared for. I know, shallow, but it was a problem. Also, she has a roommate she is occasionally intimate with. They both refer to each other as "wife," but it is somewhat in jest, according to Adele. What I find unsettling is that Adele finds introducing others to this woman to be distressing. I don't understand what her fear with that is. It throws up red flags to me.

Taylor is okay with me talking to Adele and seeing if things can be mended, but he did not ask me, or even bring it up. If Adele is no longer interested, or our conversation doesn't alleviate some of the concern, he will not be put out about it.

This site has been really helpful. I've read many stories. They have been enlightening. It got me thinking about the friends we consider family and how we accept them and let them know how important they are to us, which not only makes them feel good, it makes me feel good to do it. It certainly doesn't make me feel our relationship is threatened by doing so. I think I can incorporate some of that into people we are sexually intimate with, perhaps even if they are Taylor's partner sexually and only my friend. He feels he can give this a shot with someone I see, too.

 

[TruckerPete]

I have let him read these posts.

I am glad this is something the two of you can do. Will we see him on the forum?

He feels adamant that he has not fallen for Adele. He is fond of her, enjoys her company. She is aware of how important we are to each other and thinks highly of me. We were friends with her before all this. His feelings for her were likely to grow, since we all got on before any intimacy was brought into it. I think what we were feeling was natural.

Fair enough, but it certainly needed to be brought up!

We see where many of the problems could have been avoided by keeping who we see more in the loop of what we ask of each other. Had I given time to discussing my feelings with them both, or prioritized the time I devoted to my relationship on the same level I gave my project, I really feel we would have had a much better result.

Yes, to both points. To successfully continue down this path, you must talk about how you feel. The best approach to dealing with problems is as soon as they come up. I can't stress how important this is.

Had he kept to his own limitations of tolerance for alcohol, he would have been more mindful of calling when plans change and not getting caught thinking with the other head. To say he was dishonest is a bit unfair. He never lied to me about the time he spent with her. He is guilty of not living up to his word and resorting to honesty after the fact.

I consider this dishonest, but would probably defend my loved ones to complete strangers, too. Seriously though, the silver lining is that he came clean right after. That bodes well for having the open, honest communication before he goes out.

Adele was pretty pissed about getting caught in the splash zone of our blow-up. I'm not fond of her drinking style, but beyond that, she is respectful. I think I was wrong to not kee her aware of our concerns. How awful of me! I didn't want to pay her that respect in return... He and I left her feeling like she was a second class citizen. Totally unfair.

Yup. If you mentioned it, I didn't pick up on the fact that she was not aware of your expectations of Taylor, and really her. She has every right to be pissed. The rules you outlined in your first post sound like the third party is a sex toy. This is perfectly acceptable if the sex toy agrees to such a relationship. Add to this, the fact that you get along with Adele, and have incorporated her into you non-sexual life (helping you with your project), and yeah... Unfair. Which you have said, and that is great! Now you can take steps to prevent this from happening to her, your Jack, and any other people you may meet in the future.

To my end of things, I have been seeing Jack casually for a couple months. He is working in a city near ours for the next month if not two. He lives in our city otherwise. Husband would like to meet him, reflective of what we've been discussing, and I do think they will like each other. I am hopeful. Jack has some experience with this, so I think he will be comfortable coming over for an evening.

More good news!

I also think I should sit down with Adele and tell her what I thought I could put off prior to all this. Some of why I stopped being sexually interested in her over may be alterable. I was involved with an alcoholic once... Her dreadlocks smell...

Both of these are valid concerns, though in completely different ways, and while it is reasonable of you to respectfully express them, it would also be reasonable for her to respectfully say she's not going to change.

She also has a roommate she is occasionally intimate with. They both refer to each other as "wife"... What I find unsettling is that Adele finds introducing others to this woman to be distressing. I'm not understanding what her fear with that is and it throws up red flags to me.

Big red flag for me, too. Sort that out.

This site has been really helpful. It got me thinking about the friends we consider to be family and how we have been capable of accepting them and letting them know how important they are to us. Being this way with them not only makes them feel good, it makes me feel good to do it. It certainly doesn't make me feel our relationship is threatened by doing so. I think I can incorporate some of that into people we are sexually intimate with...

Yes. And the extra work it takes to make this work for romantic partners is returned exponentially!

I am really glad you two are on the path to working things out, whatever your flavour of non-monogamy and/or poly turns out to be! Honesty, respect, and communication are the keys for all parties involved.

 

[Vinccenzo]

I am glad this is something the two of you can do. Will we see him on the forum?

You might see him on this forum soon. He isn't big on posting in forums, but I've asked him to at least use this site as reference material.

Since we now find ourselves in the "here be dragons" location, I think we will need to look to others who have more experience in dealing with conflict and managing emotions. I have a bit of a queen bee personality when I'm feeling pushed.

The other bit of work ahead of me is harder to explain. In all my past committed relationships, I always focused on making sure my partner never had reason to doubt my loyalty. That can be great, but I've let it control how much I serve my own connections out of fear of being perceived as.... I don't even know what to call it. If I remained friends with an ex and began to date someone new, I stopped maintaining the friendship with the ex. If I were friends with an ex, and they began dating someone new, I disappeared so as to not make the new person uncomfortable.

I decide for others what their comfort level should be and act without finding out if it is valid.

Taylor claims he doesn't often feel jealousy, but I think it's harder to say that when you are with a partner who has always sought to refrain from causing that emotion to manifest. He is friends with many of his exes, some he has given "family" status, and they've become my friends, too.

I think he has always fancied himself as being someone who could live this lifestyle. I've always thought he would have a big struggle with it, for the very reasons we ended up in conflict. He had to lie a lot, growing up, about everything, due to having a violent parent. I think he struggles with believing he can be honest and not be rejected or take a loss for it. While he very very rarely drinks more than 4 pints in a social outing, he also is one of those people who tends toward blackouts when he drinks to excess. I get surly if I do it while other folks just pass out. The excessive drinking can't go on, period.

Both of these are valid concerns (though in completely different ways!) and while it is reasonable of you to respectfully express them, it would also be reasonable for her to respectfully say she's not going to change.

Yeah, I'm prepared for that. It is ultimately her choice to continue to binge drink and that might be a clear indication that her ability to become a fully considered partner in all this is not to be a reality. I do NOT NOT NOT want to have a relationship with an alcoholic ever again having already experienced 8 years of that. Husband agrees.
For the dreadlock issue, I don't think she intentionally doesn't care for them. I'm going to try to very tactfully offer to help her care for them. Maybe a sisterly bonding experience? I do things for my husband similar to this to show I care for him and it benefits how appealing I find him. I can distinctly remember him expressing a distaste for how her dreadlocks smelled and (I'm ashamed to admit) I internally found reassurance over it. Woof! I got a lot of work on myself ahead of me!

 

[redpepper]

I'm glad you are moving past your initial *rules.* they were a total red flag for me. Vetoing, not getting involved... Bah! Recipe for disaster, as it turned out. And, as I would expect, the rules got broken. It seems you are negotiating some new boundaries that make more sense to your lives now. Good for you! It's an ongoing process. It sounds like that's something to remember in the future. Good luck and thanks for sharing.

 

[TruckerPete]

Yeah, I'm prepared for that. It is ultimately her choice to continue to binge drink. That might be a clear indication that her ability to become a fully-considered partner in all this is not to be a reality. I do NOT NOT NOT want to have a relationship with an alcoholic ever again, having already experienced 8 years of that, and Taylor agrees.

Okay, I wasn't sure if she was drinking to extremes, or if perhaps her drinking was a trigger for you, but you've clarified that to be the former. I'm happy that husband agrees.

 

[Vinccenzo]

Okay, I wasn't sure if she was drinking to extremes, or if perhaps her drinking was a trigger for you, but you've clarified that to be the former. I'm happy that husband agrees.

I can see where it might be wondered if I exaggerate her consumption levels; I've been guilty of not wanting to give her credit where it is due in other instances. But she is a binge drinker. A few of our friends who know her decide whether or not to invite her to social events entirely based on how appropriately her style of drinking fits in with the event and guests. She has caused scenes before, and needed to be ushered home for the comfort of others. It won't fit in with clear and successful communication in the long run if she wants, needs, or even just simply prefers to continue to drink to excess.

But I know (through having to learn more about alcoholism and Al-anon meetings) that not everyone who drinks excessively is or becomes a real alcoholic, and that there are people who hardly drink at all that are alcoholics. There was even a time for me where I drank much much more than I do now. I only know that I will never allow myself to live in that dark place again. Not even for love.

We have a child in the mix here to think about, mine, biologically. The child is quite perceptive, and of an age to remember why my alcoholic ex (bio father) and I are not together anymore. It would make no sense to leave that situation only to have me and my child back in it for someone that is not biologically connected to the kid.

If Adele ends up not being a good candidate for us, it's not the end of the world. It could end up being the same with Jack, for myriad other reasons. Taylor is outgoing and has a decent streak of charisma; I'm sure he would meet someone else.

 

[Vinccenzo]

I spoke with Adele about my concerns with her drinking and ran into a wall.

She explained to me what her drinking is to her and how she doesn't think she is an alcoholic. Her reasoning for not thinking she is an alcoholic is simply-- no one in her family is one.

Her reasons for drinking are: relief from being responsible, that the parts of her she keeps hidden can come out, that she believes anyone she cares about will cut out on her, and when she is drunk she can behave in a manner that beats them to the punch (pushing them away), and that the people she meets when she drinks will be "fuzzy" the next day, so she is less likely to become attached to them and fear their eventual disappearing act.

She acknowledges that she does push people's buttons when she drinks because, she reasons, if they can put up with it and stick around, they are more likely to be a true friend.

To me, this is classic alcoholic behavior. I feel wedged in with her reasoning. I either accept that she will continue to do these things, and deal with the drama that will ensue, for as long as it takes for her to see me and my husband as "true" friends, OR I decide it is too much of the kind of drama I want to avoid, and be seen as one of the folks who cut out on her. Combine that with the fact that she believes one has to inherit alcoholism to be one, and all I see is the same struggles that led me to get out of my previous marriage with an alcoholic.

On the plus side, she does not wish to jump right back into an association like what we previously had, and she is much more wary of my husband and his part in the messiness we all experienced. I do identify with her on that one, especially now, because in this move to poly, we have to be able to trust each other's judgment on the people we expose our relationship to. Him wanting a person with what I see as obvious personal and alcohol issues makes it really hard to trust his judgment in people.

We talked about this, how there have been some of his long-standing friends that ended up incapable (or just flat-out refusing) to accept me in the past. In these instances, it was something I saw almost immediately, but it took them being outright nasty, being warned, being nasty again, back and forth, before he would cast them off. His point being, "Are they gone or not?" and my point being, "Yeah, but look what it had to come to for you to act."

Because my husband does make an effort to remain friends with his exes, most of these friends that have become a problem were in that lot. I get why they behaved the way they did. When a relationship doesn't work out, it helps to get over it by thinking of your ex as someone who is no good in a relationship for anyone. This becomes a difficult thing to feel soothed by when you see them with someone, and they treat them better than they treated you. Some of these friends couldn't see that it had been years since they had dated, and how he behaved in a teen relationship isn't going to be how he behaves forever.

With this situation, Adele is still not back in the picture. Treating this as a big issue while she is still not in the picture feels premature. It does make me wonder something for the future, though.

How do you deal with a stalemate when it comes to pass? With the things I've discussed with Adele (and shared with Taylor), I feel even more anxiety at the thought of her being included in our lives. Everything she has shared indicates that who she is, is someone we've yet to even meet, and meeting that person will likely be a hard field to plow. It also indicates that, should we even get to that point, we might just be more firmly invested in someone with alcohol issues.

 

[Vinccenzo]

Taylor is meeting Adele for coffee today. They've both made me aware that it's cool if I come along, but I don't see the point. She has shared with me why she drinks so much, so often, and it's only made me twice as wary.

I've told Taylor I don't think she is the best choice for the reasons she shared. He gives me these pep talks about how he would have to see her for a really long time before she would be included in the way where her drinking could cause real issues, and that she might not drink so much by that time. I see this as a naive view. I see him signing up to be who I was in my last marriage-- someone who tries to get a drunk to stop being a drunk, while the drunk thinks it's no big deal.

No one can make a real prediction on this stuff. Emotions have no defined timeline. He can't make the promise he is trying to make because emotions just happen, whether it's conveniently timed or not.

Has anyone else had to deal with their partner continuing to see someone that they think will be nothing but trouble? I feel strict over this, but it isn't some nameless fear, or feeling without reason. I imagine her being over, and me right where I was before, being distant.

 

[NeonKaos]

It seems like his mind is already made up. He wants to let this play out and see where it goes. You can either pretend you're ok with it for the sake of "poly harmony" or you can continue to stand your ground and maintain that it's not a road you want to go down again, even if only vicariously.

 

[Vinccenzo]

It seems like his mind is already made up. He wants to let this play out and see where it goes. You can either pretend you're ok with it for the sake of "poly harmony" or you can continue to stand your ground and maintain that it's not a road you want to go down again, even if only vicariously.

Then I'm right back to square one, where she is not in the loop with us both, and that's what caused the problems in the first place. I'm not real good with the pretending, nor do I think it's the healthiest way to go about things. It's okay for small stuff, like pretending someone's screaming child grabbing a French fry off your plate isn't bothering you, while you try to eat your lunch at the diner.

I get that he wants me to trust him to judge the relationship and its potential. I'm struggling with it. I don't see the sense in being involved, because I only see that as an accelerant to something that should not move quickly because of the issues involved. If he is the gas, I'm pegged as the speed bumps. That wasn't working well, and I ended up here.

 

[NeonKaos]

OK, I want to be clear that I'm making my "opinions", "judgments", whatever you want to call them based ONLY on what you've said here. I don't know you, your husband, or the potential girlfriend, and neither one of them is here to give their side of the story.

Yeish... it seems like I have to say that a lot these days or people will crawl up my ass for "conjecture". (No one has done that in this thread yet but I feel like folks are always about to.)

Anyway, I drink a lot to relieve stress and I may or may not be an alcoholic (it seems that any time someone lists the reasons why they couldn't possibly have an addiction or a vice they're setting themselves up for a "methinks ye doth protest a wee bit too much"), but I'm not sure I'd push for a relationship with someone whose other partner is strongly suspecting me of having that problem if I were sure I did not have that problem. I'm just trying to look at this from the perspective of a (hypothetical) "girlfriend".


Not sure if that helps or if it makes things seem more complicated.

 

[redpepper]

Has anyone else had to deal with their partner continuing to see someone that they think will be nothing but trouble? I feel strict over this, but it isn't some nameless fear or feeling without reason. I imagine her being over, and me right where I was before, being distant.

Oh yeah. Read the "Relationships without prescriptions" thread that is going on right now. Or do a tag search for "veto." It's a debate-- how much can one say about their primary partner's partners? I totally get the whole dilemma.

My husband PN had a lover that was not that into him. She enjoyed casual sex with him, and thought he was cool enough to hang out with, but she didn't love him. He was madly in love with her, to the point that he wasn't paying attention to our family, his child, his obligations. He swooned all day and night in his NRE over her, and she didn't give a shit.

Eventually, I told him that he needed to end it, and why. He was angry and hurt that I would think of her in such a way, but I told him that it was all bullshit, and that he needed to end it, or I would for him. He thought about it all night and decided that he would listen to me and his gut instinct, and wrote her an email ending it.

Her response was, "Oh, that's too bad. I liked fucking you... Oh well." He realized in that moment that he had made the right decision.

Sometimes it takes a kick in the pants to make our dear loves see something different. Apparently that is up for argument as to whether or not it's justified, but I, for one, think if my marriage, the welfare of my child, and the mortgage payments are on the line, then I am going to get up in his face and tell him it has to stop. That is where my trust in his judgment ends and his trust in my judgment had to begin.

The debate is whether or not this kind of thing is fair to the other partner. That's up to you, as is all of it. But you are not alone with this struggle.

 

[Vinccenzo]

Taylor and Adele had coffee and talked. She is all about being friends for a long time first. So I guess I've got a bit of time before I really need to worry about her as a choice. I have moments of pettiness. Like hey, I asked to meet and talk; she felt it was too soon, but Taylor, the one she says she is wary of, gets coffeehouse face time. Me? I get email chats full of hyperbole about how I might be able to use my rational mind to fix her irrational mind. Pfffft! BTDT, and it wasn't fun.

I don't have the focus today to worry about it much. I guess that is a good thing. Jack is coming over for dinner tonight. He and Taylor will be meeting for the first time. I'm so nervous! It doesn't feel like a bad nervous, though. hopehopehopehope they get along!

 

[Vinccenzo]

Having Jack over for dinner went well. It wasn't as awkward as I was worried it would be. They got on fine. I'd made the offer a few weeks ago and didn't expect it would happen so quickly, because Jack had been working in another city. That ended faster than expected.

I figured, since I'd invited him over, I'd wait awhile before bringing it up again, so as to not make him feel pressured. I was very happy that once he was back in town, he asked to come over on his own. I guess I expected him to be dodgy on the subject. They both impressed me with how at ease they were around each other. Jack wants to hang out again sometime. He said the only moment of awkwardness he felt was when it came to the seating during the movie we watched.

My own awkwardness was due to having not seen Jack for a while and wanting to jump on him, but I didn't think Taylor would care for that.

I wish the situation with Adele had as much ease to it. One of my biggest peeves is secondhand last-minute invitations to include me. I've never trusted them. When I want someone to be included in an outing, I invite them personally. Both Adele and Taylor know this about me, because it has come up before. I have told them that I feel not inviting myself to something they plan to do is something done out of respect.

Yet twice now, they've made plans without me and then afterward, told me I should have come along. They had planned a bike ride for this weekend earlier this week, and Taylor said I could come if I wanted. I thought I would go. But then, yesterday morning, while talking to Adele, she told me she didn't think she'd be over her cold enough to keep those plans.

So this morning, I ask Taylor what his plans for the day are, thinking the ride was canceled. No, it's still on. I ask when it was decided for sure that they were going and he says they solidified their plans yesterday, an hour AFTER she told me she wasn't going to be well enough to go. How am I suppose to not feel excluded by that? Taylor might genuinely not care if I come along, but it definitely makes me feel like they or she would rather I don't come. I wish they, he, she, whichever, would just say so. Coming along anyway with all the mixed signals just makes me feel like I'd be intruding...

I'm going anyway. eff it. I figure the only way to know for sure is to go and see if it's weird.

 

[Vinccenzo]

I decided to go anyway.

When we first arrived at her place, Taylor told me to wait in the car. I sat there for about 5-10 minutes, fighting the urge to get sensitive over it, getting sensitive anyway and climbing in the back seat when they came out and continued talking without any hello to me or anything. I could not hear the conversation as it continued, and began to fancy finding the nearest Metro stop once we arrived to wherever they'd decided we were going, because no one thought to tell me our destination.

I hate the part of me that has rules for what is and isn't socially polite, and scrutinizes anyone who doesn't match those standards. At best, it makes me a lovely party guest or host, but at worst, it provides me with convenient reasons for getting overly butt hurt about petty crap. So I internally told myself off and scrapped the idea of hopping on a train once they were looking the other way. This is new territory. Perhaps old reaction habits have little to no application here? I'm hoping to, at least, use all this to examine myself and find personal growth for poor habits such as this one.

And it was suddenly much better! Out of the back seat and on the feet! I found myself included in conversation and enjoying myself. The ride was nixed for purchasing bike parts. Then we headed for a street festival to grab steak and mushroom pie before heading back to her place to show her how to put the new parts on her bike. Still no roommate in sight, though!

Adele shared with me that she is now keeping herself to a 4-drink minimum when she goes out, to determine if she is, in fact, lacking in self control with her consumption. Time will tell.

 

[TruckerPete]

And it was suddenly much better! Out of the back seat and on the feet! I found myself included in conversation and enjoying myself. The ride was nixed for purchasing bike parts. Then we headed for a street festival to grab steak and mushroom pie before heading back to her place to show her how to put the new parts on her bike. Still no roomate in sight though!

Wow! Good for you, turning things around for yourself like that!

 

[SNeacail]

I hate the part of me that has rules for what is and isn't socially polite and scrutinizes anyone who doesn't match those standards. At best, it makes me a lovely party guest or host, but at worst, it provides me with convenient reasons for getting overly butt hurt about petty crap. So I internally told myself off and scrapped the idea of hopping on a train once they were looking the other way. This is new territory and perhaps old reaction habits have little to no application here? I'm hoping to at least use all this to examine myself and find personal growth for poor habits such as this one.

I do this too. If I am feeling shy or awkward in a situation, I get withdrawn. It comes across as if I'm upset with those around me, and so they stay clear, which just makes it worse. It's a hard habit to break. It requires being outgoing and friendly, when all you want to do is hide in a corner (or go home).

Glad you had a good day.