Cohabitation Advice

[teddysalad]

Hi all,

This is my first post on this forum.

My wife and I have been married for 5 years, and non-monogamous for ~4. About a year ago, we transitioned into being poly when we both met people that we really wanted to get very close to.

Fast-forward to now, we are both deeply in love with our other partners, and our own romantic connection has faded. We both mourn the loss of it, but we both seem to feel like the connections we opened up with other people shone a light on some romantic incompatibilities between us. My wife and I are committed to being loving parents to our young son (7), and continue with our marriage, friendship, support, and financial commitments with each other. However, we are both also wanting to be able to define and encourage long-term arrangements with our new partners.

For my newer partner and I, cohabitation is an important next step. Emotionally, this feels important to us. And practically, we have been finding the stresses of pulling her away from her place or vice versa to be a bit much.

The house we have is a fairly large bungalow, that could easily accommodate 3 adults and a child, and probably still have a guest bedroom to spare. There are 2 large size bedrooms upstairs, a small one also upstairs, a medium sized one downstairs, and the rest of the downstairs has potential to be an apartment once we get our butts in gear to make that happen.

My wife has been stressed about the rate at which our lives our changing. So we are not pushing the move-in to happen immediately. However, in conversations that I have had separately with my wife and other partner, there are some potentially conflicting statements of desire / need.

- My wife has a very strong personality, and my other partner has a meeker one. She worries that if she moves into the house, she won't feel she has a living space that she has any real agency over. Being conscious of it being "my wife and I's" house, and not hers, she will most certainly diminish her own ideas/thoughts/desires over those of anyone who is a home owner.
- Thus, she thinks living in a mostly independent unit in the house would be great, and is happy to contribute in a financially fair way for that, including investing in the needed renovations, and also contribute to other aspects of the household (yard care, child care, shared meals, .. etc). In addition, she (and myself too) would love a space for her and I to have together, to exercise our desire to domesticate lovingly with each other.
- My wife feels that she would feel a sense of unfairness if there was a (mostly) separate unit in the house that she felt excluded from, and yet the people in that unit were more or less also having free reign of the rest of the house. Her stated preference is for everyone to have their own room, share the common areas, but with her getting a winning say over my other partner on anything with respect to the common spaces of the house, given that she is a home own and my other partner is not. For her, this honours the domestic/financial/home-owner commitments we have made to each other.
- Myself, I want to give both relationships what I feel they need. I feel my relationship with my wife needs my continued roles as a co-parent, friend, confidant, domestic partner, financial supporter. And I feel my relationship with my other partner will grow in the way we want it to if we have a shared space together. Accomplishing both these things becomes WAY easier if that space happens to be *in* the house in which my family already lives. I also feel that my wife, also dealing with the stress of kick-starting her own business, will benefit from the added support of two people who are always around and are happy to help her with the whole house, and parenting duties, meals, etc etc.

I'm hoping to get some advice. Is it possible that I'm just being incredibly selfish?
Is there a way to define boundaries that might make everyone happy and comfortable, and give them what they need/want?

I would think that it might work if everyone was more or less allowed in any part of the house, but with some rules around that.
e.g.
- my wife has final say over issues pertaining to the upstairs "unit"
- my other partner has final say over issues pertaining to the downstairs "unit"
- I will be ecstatic to have both of my relationships and son in one roof, and will exercise my input in all spaces where my input is desired
- everyone has their own room that they alone have agency over, and can expect complete privacy
- in general, people can be anywhere in the house
- people should leave other people's spaces "as they found it"
- there can be times of day or days of the week where people can expect privacy in their units.

 

[Evie]

So in short, your partner needs more than just "her room" to have the greater agency over and is concerned that unless those spaces are well defined, your wife's stronger personality will me she has most agency. Yes?

Your upstairs-downstairs idea seems workable if they both buy in, but maybe you have a different definition of bungalow to me - I thought that meant only one level. Either way, I recommend some renovations so there is a decent kitchen, bathroom and non-bedroom space in both parts, or your partner is right, she'll always feel like a flatmate at best.

 

[teddysalad]

Evie, that's right.

Having just her room to have agency over wouldn't allow my other partner to have the home sort of feel that she would like. And since moving into the house with me (employed, young son..) could be a very long-term scenario, she's worried about not having her living needs met.

Bungalow is single-floor, so yes, I'm talking about renovating the basement into a livable unit

 

[GalaGirl]

Back up a minute. I'm confused.

What happens if/when your new GF who you have a romantic connection to wants to get married? But you are still married to your wife who you don't have a romantic connection to?

Like... why not be divorced coparents?

I know a poly divorced family where the ex husband is the godfather to the new child of the old wife and her new husband. They did a LOT of work and it was in stages to arrive there. They wanted to remain close to coparent the older kids and here is what they did. It was NOT overnight.

First, ex-wife moved out to nearby apartment nearby during the divorcing process. Like a year that way. In that time she started dating the guy who would become her new husband.

Then same living situation, only now she's married to the new dude. That let the kids get used to just the new stepdad. The new apartment was no longer new.

Then they started TTC and got pregnant and had the new baby. That took like 2 years. So old apartment, old stepdad, just new family member coming.

Then ALL of them uprooted to move to side by side houses so the kids can shuttle in between. Each branch in their OWN space, but nearby. When the tyke got 2 yr toddler, THEN the ex wife asked the ex husband to stand as godfather, and he agreed. Their post divorce relationship had 4 years to heal and adjust. Now all the kids are bigger and doing fine shuttling between houses.

So you might want to think about that.

You might have brief "try it out" times where a new partner spends a week in the family home but retains her independent home during a year of searching for a suitable new homes.

Seek either apartments that are in the same development, a duplex that is side by side, or separates houses on the same street or similar arrangement. And each one owning or renting their own space. Not like one being the landlord over the other. Do not add extra dynamics like that.

I'd avoid upstairs/downstairs situations because complaints about upstairs having a heavy tread and foot stomping -- it sounds small, but ugh. Those small things can fester. And listening to other people's sex noises when you have a chip on your shoulder/territorial stuff going on... also can fester.

For your meek partner? That alleviates her fear that she doesn't have agency over her home and is regaled to her bedroom like some "permanent guest." She wants her own home.

For your strong willed partner, she gets to be "the home owner" everywhere. She also gets her own home.

- Myself, I want to give both relationships what I feel they need.

What YOU feel they need? Or what THEY say they need?

I feel my relationship with my wife needs my continued roles as a co-parent, friend, confidant, domestic partner, financial supporter.

None of that says "legal husband" to me.

And does she want ALL these things? Which ones does she want? Have you asked?

And can't you do all these things living next door?

• Be a coparent?
• Be a friend?
• Be a confidante?
• Help with domestic duties?
• Help with financial support?

And I feel my relationship with my other partner will grow in the way we want it to if we have a shared space together.

And that can happen with you living next door with your new partner. Still shared space together.

Accomplishing both these things becomes WAY easier if that space happens to be *in* the house in which my family already lives.

Also accomplished living next door.

Is it that you balk at a move?

I also feel that my wife, also dealing with the stress of kick-starting her own business, will benefit from the added support of two people who are always around and are happy to help her with the whole house, and parenting duties, meals, etc etc.

Or having y'all in "her house" always underfoot will piss her off, but she will go quiet because she needs the help for the business. But with her strong personality? It may build up inside and then later a huge blow up.

And does your meek partner want to be THAT involved with your wife? Have you asked? Like helping YOU with your children is one thing. And maybe helping out once in a while with some chore for the other house for sake of group harmony. But being at beck and call so wife can do a business? That's kind of a lot to ask. It's YOUR wife, not hers.

Not everyone is good for cohabiting.

I'd suggest actually ASKING the other partners what they most want.

And asking them about being neighbors instead. Close enough to achieve the coparenting things you want to do, and far away enough so each one has their own space and your new relationship can grow out from under the shade of your existing relationship. Could that work for all 3?

The price to move may be worth it so BOTH sides of the V have a shot at being healthy. Like an investment to future.

Maybe YOU renovate the basement to rent out. Like a college student who needs space but also might be willing to do some nanny work? Or a retired senior looking to downsize and maybe up for same nanny work? And to help finance you moving out to a new home with the new partner that is nearby. And wife can stay put with kids and still have "her own space" and new partner can have "her own space" and you can have your "want to be nearby."

Or not bother renovating. Sell up and just everyone move like my friend did with her family branches. Like fresh start for ALL. No territorial stuff that way.

I don't think it is healthy for GF to sink her money into a home that is not hers. Like she pays or helps pay for the renovation. You break up and then what? She's screwed cuz her money is tied up here, and she cannot move out?

I also don't think it is healthy for her to be your renter. Like YOU renovate a basement apartment, and she moves in as the renter with you and wife as her landlords.

When she already has her own space without complications, why bother with all that? Is it that you have a strong personality and's she's buckling under to your will because she's meek?

Aim for HEALTHY relationships and HEALTHY cohabitation. Maybe wife stays put, and GF moves to her own new space. So it's still hers. But closer so it makes your commute easier between homes? Or GF stays put, and wife moves closer to help with your commute?

Galagirl

 

[PinkPig]

Converting the basement to an apartment sounds like the better idea to me, too. Though, if I were gf and investing in a property that I don't own, I would want a written agreement of what happens to my investment in the event that the living arrangement doesn't work out. I wouldn't want to invest significant money into a renovation and then be left with nothing while you and wife have increased property value due to the renovations I helped finance. I think it's always wisest to hope for the best but plan for the worst.

I also think a formal agreement on when/how they can each enter the other's living space. Your wife is correct, it wouldn't be fair for gf to come and go from the main living space while she's expected to ask before entering gf's space. In your situation, I'd probably prefer treating them like separate apartments...wife and gf each knock or ask permission before entering the other's space. But, I realize others would be comfortable with everyone coming/going without asking.

I'd also probably want to work out the division of household chores and expenses in advance. Or at least a framework. Bluebird has a state of the union with her husbands annually. You might could read some of her blog...or search the site for 'state of the union' to get some ideas.

 

[Dagferi]

I cohabitate with both my husbands BUT under two different roofs.

There is no way in hell either of my husbands would not 100% say over what happens in their home

There is the option of you going between two separate households. It is no big deal. I am close by to either one in case of emergency. My husbands have their own castles.

I know as a woman I would not want to live in another woman's domain. Plus your GF would have no property rights of something happened to you. Having separate homes I protect both mens assets.

 

[Magdlyn]

Let's choose nicknames! Teddy for the OP. Kitty for his gf. Monkey for the wife/mother of child.

Back up a minute. I'm confused.

What happens if/when Kitty, with whom you have a romantic connection, wants to get married? But you are still married to Monkey, with whom you don't have a romantic connection?

Like... why not be divorced co-parents?

More nicknames for the living quarters example below! Husband- Jim. His ex wife, Jenny. Jenny's new husband, Arthur. I also edited your typical shorthand for clarity.

I know a poly divorced family where the ex-husband Jim is the godfather to the new child of his ex-wife, Jenny, and her new husband, Arthur. They did a LOT of work, and it was in stages to arrive there. They wanted to remain close to co-parent all the older kids. Here is what they did:

First, Jenny moved out from her house with Jim, to an apartment nearby, during the divorce process. They spent a year that way. In that time Jenny started dating Arthur, who would become her new husband. Then Arthur moved in with her, they got engaged, then married.

So, same living situation, only now she's married to Arthur. That let the kids get used to just Arthur, their new stepdad. The new apartment was no longer new.

Then, Jenny and Arthur started trying to conceive, got pregnant and had a new baby. That took 2 years. Now, the kids are used to the apartment and Arthur as their stepdad, and one more new family member has come in, the baby.

Then ALL of them (both new families) uprooted to move to side by side houses so the kids could shuttle in between them. Each branch of the extended family in their OWN space, but nearby. (When the new baby was 2 years old, Jenny asked Jim to stand as godfather, and he agreed.)

Their post-divorce relationship had 4 years to heal and adjust. Now all the kids are bigger and doing fine shuttling between houses.

So you might want to think about that.

You might have brief "try it out" times where new partner Kitty spends a week (or whatever time period) in the family home with you and Monkey, but retains her independent home as well, during a year of searching for a suitable new home or homes.

You can seek: apartments that are in the same development; a duplex that is side by side; separate houses on the same street; or a similar arrangement. And each woman owns or rents their own space, not one being the landlord over the other. Do not add extra dynamics like that. You yourself work out where your financial contributions to rent or mortgage go.

I'd avoid upstairs/downstairs situations, because complaints about upstairs having a heavy tread and foot stomping -- it sounds small, but ugh... And listening to other people's sex noises when you have a chip on your shoulder/territorial stuff going on... also can fester.

For your meek partner, Kitty? That alleviates her fear that she doesn't have agency over her home and is relegated to her bedroom like some "permanent guest." She probably wants her own home.

For your strong willed partner, she gets to be a home owner. She has her own home.

...

• Be a co-parent?
• Be a friend?
• Be a confidante?
• Help with domestic duties?
• Help with financial support?

And that can happen with you living next door with your new partner. Still a shared space together.


Is it that you balk at a move?


And does your meek partner Kitty want to be THAT involved with Monkey? Have you asked? Like helping YOU with your child is one thing. And maybe helping out once in a while with some chore for the other house for sake of group harmony. But being at beck and call so wife Monkey can do a business? That's kind of a lot to ask. It's YOUR wife, not Kitty's wife.

Not everyone is good for cohabiting.

I'd suggest actually ASKING Monkey and Kitty what they most want. Ask them about being neighbors instead. Close enough to achieve the co-parenting things you want to do, and far away enough so each one has her own space, and your new relationship can grow out from under the shade of your existing marriage. Could that work for all 3?

The price to move may be worth it so BOTH sides of the V have a shot at being healthy. Like an investment to future.

Maybe you pay to renovate the basement to rent out to someone like a college student who needs space, but also might be willing to do some nanny work in lieu of rent? Or a retired senior looking to downsize, and maybe up for same nanny work? This could help finance you moving out to a new nearby home with Kitty. And Monkey can stay put with the kid. Each woman can still have "her own space," and you can have your "want to be nearby" desire met.

Or don't bother renovating. Just sell the bungalow, and everyone moves into their own place, like my friend did with her family branches. A fresh start for ALL, and no territorial stuff that way.

I don't think it is healthy for Kitty to sink her money into a home that is not hers. If she pays or helps pay for the renovation, and you two break up? She's screwed because her money is tied up here, and she cannot move out.

I also don't think it is healthy for Kitty to be your renter: you renovate a basement apartment, and she moves in, with you and Monkey as her landlords? Not a great set up.

When Kitty already has her own space without complications, why bother with all that? Is it that YOU have a strong personality and she's buckling under to your will because she's meek?

Aim for HEALTHY relationships and HEALTHY cohabitation. Maybe Monkey stays put. And Kitty moves to her own new space, so it's still hers. But she moves to a closer place, so it makes your commute easier between homes? Or Kitty stays put, and Monkey moves closer to help with your commute?

Galagirl

There. That feels much clearer!

 

[Vicki82]

There's a lot to think about here, and I think I have some relevant experience.

My husband moved into a house that is definitively mine. I own it and I paid for it. I'm not willing to equity share or anything like that, because this is the one guarantee I have that I will always be secure and have a home. We've agreed that he pays a certain amount each month towards expenses, but it is not considered mortgage/property tax etc. And I pay for capital type house expenses, appliances, etc.

It's already a fundamentally unbalanced position just with the two of us, because I have the final say on anything house related, and there isn't much way around that. If I'm the one paying and it's solely mine, then of course I have to at least be willing to do whatever improvement he's interested in. And that really isn't fair- but ultimately, there is no easy way to solve that.

He has areas of space that are his own, and he can do what he likes in them but again within reason. If he wanted to start making permanent type adjustments, he'd still have to clear it with me. If he wants to make upgrades there, those come out of his pocket generally, unless I agree to cover it.

But this house will never feel like his in the way that most people will because he doesn't have that autonomy. If your girlfriend is already expressing concern about that, it's not going to get better. Your wife sounds pretty territorial about her home, and since I'm the same way I can't blame her. But that means she may be likely to fight tooth and nail for every change that your girlfriend wants to make, and I can't really blame either one for feeling the way they do.

This was rather rambly... but my point is that this isn't a minor issue. If it's one now before your girlfriend moves in, it's not going to go away, and it's not going to get better. It sounds like both of them would be happier with their own space. Perhaps your girlfriend could buy or rent a property close by, or you could build an inlaw suite for her or the like? So she has space that is definitively hers without stepping on your wife's toes.

I occasionally fantasize about having my boyfriend move in at some point, but I can already foresee the existing issues I have now with my home getting even bigger, since I will not relinquish any legal share in the house. So anyone living here will get a space that is theirs, but won't have free reign elsewhere in the house, and they'll have to be okay with that. I recognize that it's fundamentally unfair. On the plus side, there's no couples privilege here- it's equally unfair to all my partners LOL.

 

[vinsanity0]

I like the idea of upstairs/downstairs, but I get the impression the wife doesn't want any areas that are off limits to her because it's her house no matter who lives there.

Vicki82 reminds me of Kat. I moved into Kat's house. While I had some input, I couldn't just change things. She could...lol. I finally negotiated for one room and the back yard. There is no way I could see her giving up anything for a GF I moved in. Some people are just like that. Others, like Mary, couldn't care less what the decor looked like.

Bluebird was mentioned. Her guys get along well. There are no territorial pissings going on. All three have equality. They bought a house together. Not quite the same as what is going on with the OP.

I know a couple who had an amicable breakup but still retained their house for the children's sake. Since they are both poly they took turns staying in that house. The other times were spent at other residences. That might be a better way to go here.

 

[GalaGirl]

You reminded me, vinsanity0.

A divorcing couple I knew both moved out to apartments. They kept their house with the kids in it. Instead of moving the kids around? The would take turns being in the "kid house" and being the parent on duty.

Galagirl

 

[FallenAngelina]

A divorcing couple I knew both moved out to apartments. They kept their house with the kids in it. Instead of moving the kids around? The would take turns being in the "kid house" and being the parent on duty.

We kept the family house in my divorce, too. The kids and dogs live here with me and their dad often visits. There was no schlepping from house to house. It works great if the divorcing couple can exist well together. Divorce need not be a bitter logistical nightmare.

 

[vinsanity0]

Actually, when I first started dating Kat I lived with my ex, the mother of my oldest. She rented a duplex and it had a bedroom with it's own entrance and bathroom. Unfortunately, the ex was the very jealous type so Kat and I couldn't hang out in the common area. I eventually moved in with her.

 

[SlowPoly]

I heartily second all of Gala’s advice. I live somewhat like Dagferi. I also did an amicable divorce and retained the kids’ nest, with one parent continuing to live there full-time, as FallenAngelina describes (though our paper-only divorce happened when we were still very intentionally romantically and sexually partnered - see link in my sig file, if you wish).

The way I think of it is to reduce pressure by *adding* space - physical space, yes, and also removing the legal boundaries that maintain a sense (and a legal reality) of obligations and “deserts”. Otherwise you’re squishing more people into and up against structures that will increasing feel confining (to some) and excluding (to others), instead of secure.

You want everyone to feel at home where they live, right? Your son will feel secure in spaces that aren’t backdrops for territorial or otherwise adversarial drama. It doesn’t have to be “the marital home” — he just needs to feel like it is (or they are) his home(s) - that he is welcome and one or both parents belong there. Your wife needs homespace she controls. Your other partner needs homespace she has autonomy in. You can decide what your space needs are, in light of all that.

Don’t just take the old structures and shove people where they fit, drawing lines, and assuming goodwill and good intentions can overcome mismatches of personality and power. Think sustainable. Not just convenient.

I would seriously get started planning (with your wife) a quiet divorce. Do it now, while you and your wife still recognize common goals and retain many aspects of love and commitment. Split things up legally and fairly while you’re still together. Build a new parallel home setup without breaking up the family or the actual relationships. Let the new living situation be an expansion for everyone, if it is at all within your means. And somewhere down the road, when everyone is used to the new normal, the divorce will be a backdated legal footnote to everyone else.

 

[FallenAngelina]

Let the new living situation be an expansion for everyone...

This vision is what made our amicable divorce possible. The idea was to expand our family, not to get away from anything negative. Sure, we had good reasons to divorce, but we focused on creating living spaces that would support everyone's need for independence and expansion. Inclusive separation. Be creative about it. Let your homes speak for your family, don't just fall into the marriage-divorce norm. It's more about what you believe is possible than it is about finances. Let yourselves draw up a plan that works for you.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello teddysalad,

The main thing that I perceive is that your wife and your newer partner need very separate and independent living spaces. This could be accomplished in your current home by renovating your basement in such a way as to turn it into a complete and separate living space. With its own kitchen, bath, and exit direct to the outdoors. Then I suppose your newer partner would rent that basement space, with a formal renter agreement. So that she could move out and terminate the agreement at any time, which would help if for example she (gods forbid) broke up with you. The only hitch would be that your wife would have to give up the basement area. Would she be okay with that?

Of course, independent living spaces could also be accomplished by moving into two domiciles that are close to each other. You could shuttle back and forth between the two. But maybe this is not the solution you want?

Definitely talk it out, both with your wife and with your newer partner. Find out what they each want/need. Discuss the possible solutions with them, and see what they prefer. This way everyone gets what they want ... I hope!

Good luck and let us know if we can help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[ElMango]

Z and I were legally married and owned our house together before we discovered poly. For us, even though the house is in both names I fronted the down payment of 60K so, we both consider the house very much so 'mine' more than an 'ours'.

When B moved in, he started to pay what we all considered a fair rent; his rent goes towards bills, new appliances, basically stuff for our joint house space. Currently, it's going ot car repairs as we have one car for 3 of us. B was renting before, so renting now isn't much different. The rent is low enough that he can save extra nest egg money.

He has his own room in which he has full autonomy. Z has his own space where he has autonomy. And I have mine. The rest are joint choices and decisions.

In the end, most house choices fall to me out of the simple fact that, no one else really gives a hoot on paint color, paintings, etc.