Cheating after an termination of pregnancy

B

Bonzai

New member
Hi,

I need some advice. Last year July I terminated a pregnancy. This is a decision both myself and my partner made together.

He was unaffected it. Whereas I was going through a lot hence I asked that we close of our relationship and be monogamous.

While I was mourning I could feel like he was cheating on me. 3 months after the termination, we went to a close friend's family gathering and met Lebo there. The other woman, I knew her from school. I noticed my partner and her being chirpy around each other and when it was time to leave I had to come back to fetch him to witness vibes and a long lingering hug, it was as if I wasn't even in the room. My friend's mother witness this along with other people to.

I asked him if he had stayed true to my request for monogamy and he said yes. I asked him if we switched phones I wouldn't find anything and he said yes they'd be nothing. I gave him my phone and he reluctantly gave me his. I found a voicenote to his friend asking if the room they shared was available because he wanted to get his dick wet. That week I wasn't around him. Turns out he was speaking to 3 other women but did not have sex with them. And Lebo was just a woman I witnessed him like. He went to see after I had told him what I witnessed between them and how it did not sit well with me. Because when I found out about the cheating it happened all at the same time she became the face of the betrayal. He apologised and said he was ashamed. I forgave him.

In January this year I went on a trip and I met a guy I felt a connection with but I didn't want to pursue anything. I had told my partner at least 3 times in conversation about this. Kevin, the guy, eventually told me he was considering coming to visit and that's when feelings were spoken about.

I'm not sure when I felt healed from termination but I was ready to explore again but this was initiated by my conversation with Kevin, which my partner did not appreciate. The conversation should have began with the both of us. Nonetheless, he forgave me and gave me permission to explore with Kevin.

Conversations with my partner were good. I even understood why he like Lebo but I did tell him that I associate the thought of them together with the trauma of cheating and the mourning our child. Yesterday he asked for permission to explore possibilities with Lebo. I was distraught. I told him how disgusted I was with his request after I asked him to say everything out loud considering all the circumstances from the beginning.

He said it wasn't worth it and he wont pursue her. But how do we proceed. Am I unreasonable for keeping Lebo away from him when he said I can be with Kevin?
 
I even understood why he like Lebo but I did tell him that I associate the thought of them together with the trauma of cheating and the mourning our child.
Click to expand...

He seems to get this now after talking. Be ok with it.

He said it wasn't worth it and he wont pursue her. But how do we proceed. Am I unreasonable for keeping Lebo away from him when he said I can be with Kevin?
Click to expand...

My opinion? Believe him. If he says it isn't worth it and won't pursue her? Be ok with that and tell him thank you and that you appreciate it.

Before you go dating Kevin, check in with him about Re-Opening now that BOTH of you have had time to get past the miscarriage. It's ok that you each mourned it in different ways and took however long each took. The point is that now BOTH are ready to Open again, right?

Nothing wrong with each dating fresh people that have NO connection to the mourning / cheating time.

Don't make it more complicated than it has to be. If he's willing to put Legbo in the "past" box? Tell him thank you, let it be in the past, and move on.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
Thank GalaGirl. I'll have a chat with him now that things have cooled off and assess whether he meant or he just said so I wouldn't continue to be upset.

But yes, we're both ready now, so there's possibility.
 
There is no "giving of permission" in polyamory. This might seem like semantics, and you seem to have English as a second language, but please consider this.

I am not sure how long you've been with Partner. It seems you don't live together. It seems he (reluctantly) "consented" to Closing for 3 months after your abortion. But that didn't mean he no longer felt attracted to others. If you're poly, you're poly.

Maybe he didn't cheat. So you saw him asking about "getting his dick wet." Did he? Or was he just fantasizing? Was this during the 3 month break, or afterwards?

You didn't feel attracted to another until more than 3 months went by. But did your Partner start dating after the 3 agreed upon months in your contract?

What does "cheating" and having sex mean? Was porn OK? Was flirting at a party, and hugging OK? Was cybersex OK? What is "sex?" Penis in vagina? Oral? Kissing? Hugging?

Permission implies that you own each other. Consent implies you are free and equal individuals who have an agreed upon contract for certain behaviors. Contracts can always be looked at and renegotiated if one party decides they do not wish to, or can not comply with the terms.

Putting it this way might make working together in a free and transparent respectful way easier, and prevent cheating, either accidentally (because of unclear terms) or on purpose, because of fear of breaking the contract.

Personally, I do not believe in vetoes. If he likes Lebo, I think he has a right to date her. He doesn't have to carry your baggage around the grey area where you think he "cheated" for you. I am afraid he will sneak around and see her anyway, just to prevent having to talk to you and perhaps be disrespected by you. Resorting to snooping in each others' phones is pretty sad behavior and will not build trust, but only erode it.
 
Hi Magdlyn,

Ammm ok I don't know what my English has to do with sharing perspectives on difficulties one can face in poly relationships but anyway. You can give advice without being condescending.

For context, we are living together and have been in a relationship for just over a year.

While I understand being polyamorous means you love/like whomever whenever, but without respectful boundaries it will never work. So I disagree with you on lot of your sentiments.

I was also attracted to people but that would not have been healthy for me to pursue anything nor the relationship at that time. We had not set a time period for the 'new' monogamous relationship. How does one time grieving?

Because he pretended to agree to the monogamy when I gave him the option to leave if he could not live with that while I grieved, was a problem it wasn't a grey area. He chose to do it behind my back when he had the option to do it without me in his life. So that qualifies this as cheating. It doesn't have to involve penetrative sex.

He flirted, made plans for dates when he wasn't suppose to. I didn't have to get to the point where I asked us to swap phones because I gave him ample opportunity to come clean when I had the feeling something was happening and he denied it.

Thank you for pointing out consent vs permission. That's useful
 
Hello Bonzai,

Lebo is a little bit different than Kevin because Lebo has a triggering effect on you, she reminds you of when you were suffering from the loss of your unborn child (as well as the cheating). Your partner does not have this same triggering effect from Kevin, so it is okay for you to see Kevin even if your partner does not see Lebo. At least that is my vote.

Sincerely,
KDT
 
I believe you are being unreasonable, but I do understand why you feel the way you do. Mags asked the question that came to my mind. Your answer tells me he didn't cheat in a way that fits my personal definition of cheating so I can't agree with you there. I can understand you were grieving. What I don't understand is why you think Kevin should have to set aside his life because of your feelings. You were the one who didn't feel like dating. I'm a person who believes people should own their own feelings instead of expecting people to do their emotional labor for them.
 
vinsanity0 said:
I believe you are being unreasonable, but I do understand why you feel the way you do. Mags asked the question that came to my mind. Your answer tells me he didn't cheat in a way that fits my personal definition of cheating so I can't agree with you there. I can understand you were grieving. What I don't understand is why you think Kevin should have to set aside his life because of your feelings. You were the one who didn't feel like dating. I'm a person who believes people should own their own feelings instead of expecting people to do their emotional labor for them.
Click to expand...

What is your definition of cheating, if it doesn't include breaking agreements and lying about it?

Imo, that was 100% cheating, and I personally would never want to hear about or be around someone who was a constant reminder of my partner's bad behavior while I was grieving a child.

That said. He's an adult. He can date whoever he wants to date. So can you. Then you each get to decide if you still want to be with each other as well. There's a difference between "I can't handle you dating her so you're not allowed to" and "I personally can't have her in my life due to past trauma (your feelings of betrayal during your mourning/ agreed monogamous period). If you want to date her, I understand, but I can't guarantee that I will be able to continue being with you if I'm not able to work through this."

Also... therapy. You two are obviously on way different pages about terminating the pregnancy and the aftermath. Some help navigating those big feels would probably be useful.
 
I'm wondering why you believe that your partner shouldn't develop an interest in someone until you develop an interest in someone. It reads like your grieving period was open ended until you met Kevin. Your partner sparked with people, including Lebo, earlier than you met Kevin. That sounds like a lot of limbo for your partner.

Out of curiosity, if your partner "wanted to get his dick wet" had you also ceased physical intimacy with him following your termination? If you've been together for a little over a year and have spent months of that grieving your termination, then it sounds like your own period of New Relationship Energy was cut short. That must have been difficult on you both.

You say you gave him the option to leave. Was this when you were already living together? Do you consider his decision to stay in part to not uproot himself from the home you shared, or perhaps to not add to your sense of loss?

So, what are you hoping to gain from asking the internet about your situation? Justification for vetoing Lebo? I certainly can't give you that. From what you describe at the party, there was some clearly chemistry between your partner and Lebo. You could agree to parallel poly (having no contact with her yourself) so you don't have to witness their affection or have compersion (joy at seeing him happy in his NRE with her).

Honestly, it sounds like you could do with actually spending some time falling in love with your partner again (which can happen alongside both of your having other burgeoning relationships).
 
AlwaysGrowing said:
What is your definition of cheating, if it doesn't include breaking agreements and lying about it?

Imo, that was 100% cheating, and I personally would never want to hear about or be around someone who was a constant reminder of my partner's bad behavior while I was grieving a child.
Click to expand...

The details are a little fuzzy but I don't see any agreements being broken. What does temporary monogamy even mean to a polyamorous person anyway? He didn't go out with or have sex with anybody as far as I can tell. Did it mean he wasn't to speak with anyone other than the OP? What about anyone he was seeing before? Was he expected to turn his back on them completely? The question here is was the OP specific or did she just expect her partner (who I erroneously referred to as Kevin) to know what she expected.
 
Bonzai said:
Hi Magdlyn,

Ammm ok I don't know what my English has to do with sharing perspectives on difficulties one can face in poly relationships but anyway. You can give advice without being condescending.

For context, we are living together and have been in a relationship for just over a year.

While I understand being polyamorous means you love/like whomever whenever, but without respectful boundaries it will never work. So I disagree with you on lot of your sentiments.

I was also attracted to people but that would not have been healthy for me to pursue anything nor the relationship at that time. We had not set a time period for the 'new' monogamous relationship. How does one time grieving?

Because he pretended to agree to the monogamy when I gave him the option to leave if he could not live with that while I grieved, was a problem it wasn't a grey area. He chose to do it behind my back when he had the option to do it without me in his life. So that qualifies this as cheating. It doesn't have to involve penetrative sex.

He flirted, made plans for dates when he wasn't suppose to. I didn't have to get to the point where I asked us to swap phones because I gave him ample opportunity to come clean when I had the feeling something was happening and he denied it.

Thank you for pointing out consent vs permission. That's useful
Click to expand...

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showpost.php?p=448721&postcount=15 I wrote this based on this thread earlier.

Being polyamorous isn't something you switch on and off like a light. Also, it seems that you have no experience with polyamory at all whereas here, where you chose to come for advice, I alone have over 25 years experience of holding down the multiple relationships. So when you try and tell people who have actually done this thing properly... no switching on and off when shit gets tough... how this should be done, you're really barking up the wrong tree.

What I think has happened here is that you have found out the hard way that a poly person cannot be monogamous. Even for a short time. You thought that you own your partner so when you're upset, you can demand that he becomes monogamous. Doesn't work like that, sweetie. You can demand all you want that he be upset enough to need to avoid other people but if he doesnt feel that way, he doesn't feel that way. It's as simple as that. He doesnt need time to grieve. He doesn't feel the same as you. Maybe even if he did need to grieve, he doesn't have to stop seeing other people to do that. But instead of giving him the space he needs to be himself, you have to try and control and overwhelm and force him to behave in the way that you think he should. You're not even bothered that it is fake. That's how little you care about other people. As long as they play the part, you don't care how they feel inside. Doesn't that sound horrible and selfish?

What you call respectful boundaries is actually you just being controlling and expecting others to just submit to it.

The reality is that he never ever wanted to be "monogamous" with you. A polyamorous person cannot be monogamous anyway. He wants to see other people all the time. Not just when it suits you. Stop with what is going to become abusive behaviour because people with this view that everything should revolve around them and their feelings only escalate.


No more vetos. Apologize for your actions and sa y you realize you were way out of line now. Apologize to Ledo too and say you've now matured significantly and will never behave that way again. Will she please give your partner another chance.
 
I wish I could have been as forthright yet eloquent as SP here. Nailed it.
 
SEASONEDpolyAgain said:
What you call respectful boundaries is actually you just being controlling and expecting others to just submit to it. The reality is that he never ever wanted to be "monogamous" with you. A polyamorous person cannot be monogamous anyway. He wants to see other people all the time. Not just when it suits you.
Click to expand...

This is really important to understand, Bonzai. You equate sexual and emotional exclusivity to love. "If he really loves me, he'll be faithful to me when I need him to be" is the thinking. Fidelity is a foundational demonstration of love in monogamous thinking. It's so common and pervasive that most people don't even recognize this as an option. The fact is, though, that there is an option and that option is a polyamorous way of thinking, which SeasonedPoly describes above. Not all poly people feel the need to be open to new relationships all the time and there is such a thing as poly people agreeing to close the existing structure - but the keyword here is AGREE. Your BF never joyfully agreed to close your structure, he tried to submit to your request. Your "respectful boundaries" are indeed attempts to control and controlling requests are usually met with departure or secret behavior. Asking your BF to be "respectful" by being faithful to you reveals a basic mis-match in your relationship. Neither of you is wrong, you're just not suited for each other.
 
Last edited:
Bonzai said:
Hi Magdlyn,

Ammm, ok... I don't know what my English has to do with sharing perspectives on difficulties one can face in poly relationships, but anyway. You can give advice without being condescending.
Click to expand...

It was not my intent to be or sound condescending. I just wasn't sure you had the vocabulary to understand the difference between permission and consent. I am glad it helped to have that pointed out to you. It's a key understanding in making polyamorous relationships work and succeed.

For context, we are living together and have been in a relationship for just over a year.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that information. So, looking back, it seems you and Partner had only been together a few months before deciding to live together, and then having an unplanned pregnancy occur, and then making the decision to terminate it.

That is a lot of changes to deal with in a short period of time! Falling for someone, and moving in together after just a few short months is a big change. Then grieving the loss of your child, even though you chose it, can be very hard for some people. But other people (like Partner) take it more in stride, and don't find it particularly difficult. So, all that was another blow to your life and your relationship.

You really don't know someone well after just a few months, no matter how much time you spend together. You gave Partner a difficult ultimatum. "Close the relationship, or get out!" I can see how he might have thought leaving you would be a dick move so soon after your abortion. So he chose to stay. But he wasn't able to hold to your nebulous terms of what "Closing" meant.

Maybe he thought it meant, no penetrative PIV. A lot of people do define "sex" as nothing less than full PIV or PIA. So therefore, he thought chatting with women, showing some affection, flirting or maybe even cybersex was in line with his poly desires without crossing the line into an "Open" relationship.

Maybe he thought he could be there for you enough, nurture you, take care of you in your grief, and still carry on some relationship activity with others, as long as it wasn't too serious.

I understand being polyamorous means you love/like whomever whenever, but without respectful boundaries it will never work. So I disagree with you on lot of your sentiments.

I was also attracted to people but that would not have been healthy for me to pursue anything, nor a relationship at that time.
Click to expand...

And there you go. It didn't feel healthy for you. But it felt fine for your Partner.

We had not set a time period for the 'new' monogamous relationship. How does one time grieving?

Because he pretended to agree to the monogamy when I gave him the option to leave if he could not live with that while I grieved, was a problem it wasn't a grey area. He chose to do it behind my back when he had the option to do it without me in his life. So that qualifies this as cheating. It doesn't have to involve penetrative sex.
Click to expand...

In your opinion it counted as cheating. in his opinion, maybe it didn't. Or maybe he was between a rock and a hard place, so gave lip service to a nebulous contract when he didn't fully and happily consent.

Again, you don't know this guy very well. Now you see that he is different than you. Can you work with this, or is he the wrong guy for you?

He flirted, made plans for dates when he wasn't suppose to. I didn't have to get to the point where I asked us to swap phones, because I gave him ample opportunity to come clean when I had the feeling something was happening, and he denied it.

Thank you for pointing out consent vs permission. That's useful.
Click to expand...

So he flirted, and made a plan for a date, but didn't carry through with it.

Were you interested in sex at all during your grief? What outlet did he have for sex? Just masturbation?
 
I strongly disagree with many of the other members responding here (which doesn't happen often and is pretty much the only time i speak up lol).

Polyamorous does not mean that I'm unable to respect agreements. He went against an agreement. Anyone who argues that making plans to meet up for sex isn't cheating when you've agreed to be monogamous is being obtuse. That's one of the primary tenets of monogamy!

Is it all his fault? No. Communication was clearly lacking. There was no end date, check in date, or communicating of expectations. Does that excuse the fact that he broke an agreement with someone he supposedly loves while she was going through the trauma of terminating a pregnancy? No. I don't care if he didn't have the same response as you after the event, the fact is you were in mourning and asked him to do something for you to help you process. Whether or not that was a fair request (I would say to be fair the communication I mentioned earlier would have needed to happen) is moot because HE AGREED. He didn't have to. He could have said no. He could have countered with another possible solution. But he agreed.

Therapy would probably help. Figure out what you each want and see if it meshes for a future relationship. Work on communication and respect of agreements.

Personally, I wouldn't want anything to do with a person who was part of my partner cheating on me during such an emotional period of time in my life. Does that mean you can demand that he not see her? Of course not. He's an adult and can engage with whomever he wants. Does that mean you can calmly say "I can't have this person in my life without constantly reliving this moment in my life that causes me pain. I will create distance to preserve my mental wellbeing if you continue to see her. I'm not sure if that is temporary or forever. I may need to break up if I can't work through this, but I love you and I will try." Then try to work through what you can. If it doesn't work, remove yourself from the situation, not her.

Shes on your messy list. Many poly people have messy lists. Coworkers, family members, close friends, exes, etc. People they ask their partners not to date because issues can easily become messy.
 
@Alwaysgrowing

I'd be more inclined to agree with you but this part of what you said summarises the problem for me:

"Does that excuse the fact that he broke an agreement with someone he supposedly loves while she was going through the trauma of terminating a pregnancy? No. I don't care if he didn't have the same response as you after the event, the fact is you were in mourning and asked him to do something for you to help you process. "


Firstly, when it comes to this kind of agreement in a polyamorous relationship, I think we have to remember that being polyamorous isn't the norm. This means that people will often make mononormative agreements aren't conducive with their poly oriented needs and desires because they've been conditioned to believe that if they were decent and really loved their partner, they would agree to exclusivity and privilege in some of their relationships. Especially those that predate the change to non-monogamy. So you have that bias going on.

Plus, it is also common for people to judge others close to them on their emotional reaction to a traumatic event based on how closely it mirrors their own reaction. If they do not manifest their grief in the same way, or God forbid, should they simply not feel the same level of grief, then they're obviously a monster. People can feel compelled to imitate how they think they're expected to respond rather than how they want or need to respond.

I have great sympathy for people who feel pressured into actions or commitments just to maintain their reputation as a decent human. Unfortunately, it is something that happens a lot.
 
I'll have a chat with him now that things have cooled off and assess whether he meant or he just said so I wouldn't continue to be upset.
Click to expand...

Is that a problem in this relationship? He says "whatever" in the moment but doesn't really mean it? :confused:

Including making agreements with you and then not keeping them?

Or making agreements with you and then he finds "loopholes" to get out of them rather than just owning it and saying "No, I do not agree" from the beginning?

It's not like poly is magic or something. One can still cheat on their poly agreements.

So if you don't think you can trust him at his Word, and he does a lot of "whatever"-ing at you just to get you to shut up about something or avoid conversations. And doesn't really MEAN it when he says those things? Like Mr Slippery Fish all the time?

Maybe you could rethink this whole miscarriage thing. Yes, there was a loss. But it's also a fresh start place.

It's ok that people grieve differently. But if you are disappointed in him in general? That he wasn't kind to you during grief? Or he makes agreements in bad faith when all he has to do it say "No. I don't want to. So I do not agree to do that" up front? It's becoming mentally and emotionally exhausting for you to deal with him in conversations?

If that is happening... Maybe it's ok to let it all go and practice poly with more like minded people who are easier to deal with?

I remember my miscarriage years ago. I just had NO patience left for stupid or energy draining things. YKWIM?

So if this is just not something you want to deal in any more remember you do not have to.

You guys have only been together a year. NRE wears off 6 mos - 2 years in, so if you are seeing his true colors and don't like it? You don't have to stay.

Since you are the one actually there and know the full details of what's going on, I suggest some soul searching so you can figure out how much you want to keep going with him or not.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top