Condoms and such

[shykitten]

Hello. Not sure if this is something someone has posted before but I need insight.
My husband and I opened up to poly a little while ago after much discussion. I currently have one male partner in addition to my husband.
Shortly after my newer partner and I got together, we had a condom break and I got pregnant. Unsure of the paternity of the baby, but I miscarried a week and a half ago.

Now that I'm recovering from the miscarriage, my husband keeps bringing up what types of measures he wants me to use with my partner to avoid pregnancy. We had found a new type of condom and hadn't had any breakages with it, but he wants us to use condoms in addition to my partner pulling out before he finishes.
I feel that is too controlling over our relationship but he doesn't. I do not use any other form of birth control at the moment.

Has anyone been in a slightly similar situation and can offer some advice?
Am I being unreasonable for not wanting to do both? I personally want to get pregnant again and don't care about paternity, but my husband is very adamant about me not getting pregnant by anyone but him.

Edit to add that neither me nor my partner like using condoms. We were originally only using them because my husband asked us to. Just feels like him asking my partner to pull out is just too much

 

[Evie]

How about you use a diaphragm (plus condom) with your boyfriend?

Let's face it, no matter how much hubby wants your boyfriend to pull out, it's not going to happen.

 

[Magdlyn]

I once had a bf who for the entire time we dated (about a year) always pulled out before ejaculating. I think he'd just always done it and it was completely a habit. I was post-menopausal and there was no reason for him to do so, but he just did it automatically!

Anyway... there is always a small chance of pregnancy from birth-control failure. If you and hubby want to get pregnant, I assume you're not using contraception with him. If you do become pregnant, and even if you are, say, using both a condom and a diaphragm during sex with bf, there is still a tiny chance the baby could be his. Is your hubby so insistent on raising his own biological child that he would insist on a DNA test once the baby was born? What would happen if somehow, the baby was from bf's sperm? I just wondered. Would he disown the child, refuse to raise it, divorce you?

 

[dingedheart]

My husband and I opened up to poly a little while ago after much discussion.

how long ago? Was pregnancy part of those discussions ?

Am I being unreasonable for not wanting to do both? I personally want to get pregnant again and don't care about paternity, but my husband is very adamant about me not getting pregnant by anyone but him.

No you’re not being unreasonable with the attitude of wanting to get pregnant and NOT caring about paternity.

Edit to add that neither me nor my partner like using condoms. We were originally only using them because my husband asked us to. Just feels like him asking my partner to pull out is just too much

then Stop using condoms and let him deal with it….let’s see how long it takes to get pregnant again with the pull out method.

 

[GalaGirl]

I hope your healing from miscarriage is going well.

I personally want to get pregnant again and don't care about paternity, but my husband is very adamant about me not getting pregnant by anyone but him.

What are the laws where you live?

Cuz in some places if you are married, your DH would automatically be listed on the birth certificate and responsible for child even if he's not the bio dad.

Have you discussed that?

DH doesn't seem to want that. What if the other partner did want to be listed as the dad on the birth certificate? Then what? Would the laws where you live be problematic? And would it be a dealbreaker for DH if you got pregnant by your other partner? Would DH want to still be together but not married? Divorce? Would pregnancy by the other partner cause you to lose family support from your own or extended relatives? Cause difficulties for the half siblings growing up?

If the concern right now is having "two methods" to try to prevent unwanted pregnancy? And DH suggested condoms and pulling out and you are willing to use condoms but not the pulling out?

How about BCP for the second method? Diaphragm? Having Plan B ahead of time in case of another breakage? Other options?

Galagirl

 

[Marcus]

I personally want to get pregnant again and don't care about paternity, but my husband is very adamant about me not getting pregnant by anyone but him.

Are you guys lords or something? Paternity is a silly outdated concept that serves only to control the reproductive practices of the people in a relationship. So unless you are lords and need to have a legitimate heir so that they can inherit their title, I don't see the value in paternity.

I say, move into the current millennia and stop worrying about feudal age nonsense.

And just out of curiosity, is the plan to get a paternity test should you get pregnant? And if that poor child turns out to be someone other than your husbands will he divorce you and throw you out on the street? Will he allow you and your bastard child to stay in his lordly manner?

Just feels like him asking my partner to pull out is just too much

Do you guys generally tell each other what to do like that? Is it common for one of you to lay down the law about how the other behaves when they are out living their life?

I would have a lot of difficulty not laughing in someone's face if they told me how I need to be having sex with someone else. I decide what my sex life looks like because I am an adult human.

Now, I can say that because I don't have a bunch of financial and social encumbrance with a partner. It sounds like you are pretty entangled and your decisions might be linked with this other persons. If that's the case then I guess you need to weigh living your life against living the life that your husband will allow you to live.

 

[Dagferi]

Are you guys lords or something? Paternity is a silly outdated concept that serves only to control the reproductive practices of the people in a relationship. So unless you are lords and need to have a legitimate heir so that they can inherit their title, I don't see the value in paternity.

I say, move into the current millennia and stop worrying about feudal age nonsense.

And just out of curiosity, is the plan to get a paternity test should you get pregnant? And if that poor child turns out to be someone other than your husbands will he divorce you and throw you out on the street? Will he allow you and your bastard child to stay in his lordly manner?



Do you guys generally tell each other what to do like that? Is it common for one of you to lay down the law about how the other behaves when they are out living their life?

I would have a lot of difficulty not laughing in someone's face if they told me how I need to be having sex with someone else. I decide what my sex life looks like because I am an adult human.

Now, I can say that because I don't have a bunch of financial and social encumbrance with a partner. It sounds like you are pretty entangled and your decisions might be linked with this other persons. If that's the case then I guess you need to weigh living your life against living the life that your husband will allow you to live.

Marcus in the US if a married woman has a child with another man while married the child is automatically deemed the child of the husband and he is one the hook for that child. Some states you can state a different father but have to go through a legal process to do so.

Children are expensive and it is well within a man's rights not to be stuck legally responsible for a child that is not his own.

 

[Inaniel]

But if the husband has a serious paternity concern why is he suggesting pulling out as reasonable prevention?

 

[HaloOnFire]

Marcus in the US if a married woman has a child with another man while married the child is automatically deemed the child of the husband and he is one the hook for that child. Some states you can state a different father but have to go through a legal process to do so.

Children are expensive and it is well within a man's rights not to be stuck legally responsible for a child that is not his own.

And not only that, depending on the state, BOTH the husband and the BF may be on the hook for child support. And the husband still may have a devil of a time trying to get out of paying child support for a child that is not biologically his.

I feel that is too controlling over our relationship but he doesn't. I do not use any other form of birth control at the moment.

how long ago? Was pregnancy part of those discussions ?

I agree with @dingedheart. How long ago were these discussions? Was pregnancy even discussed? If it wasn't, WHY was it not discussed? Where there any agreements on condom usage prior to this? And again, if not, WHY not?


I have attempted to put myself in your shoes as DH and I have been discussing this for almost 3 years now. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that you seemingly think your DH is "controlling" you when you became pregnant and paternity is in question. Only now he wants extra assurances that any children that are produced are actually his.

You have not outlined any rules and/or boundaries that may or may not have been in place at the time of your opening up your marriage. DH and I have discussed this aspect and we have a hard and fast rule of NO creampie until 365 days have been clocked in. After that, discussions need to be had and everyone has to be cool with it. This is because we want kitchen table poly and not perpetual dating. If perpetual dating is your jam, that's on you, but I think you are being VERY unfair to your husband if you expect him to just accept whatever children you bear as his, despite paternity. Put yourself in his shoes. Would you want his GF doing this to you?

 

[HaloOnFire]

But if the husband has a serious paternity concern why is he suggesting pulling out as reasonable prevention?

Possible compromise? Iuno. There is a LOT of information left out and I don't know about anyone else in the room, but something smells fucky to me about this whole scenario. I can't put my finger on it, but something is....off.

Iuno. I am probably tired and need to go to bed.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello shykitten,

You said, "I personally want to get pregnant again and don't care about paternity, but my husband is very adamant about me not getting pregnant by anyone but him." This, to me, is your main problem, the question of condoms and pulling out are just incidental to the main problem. I think if you had your druthers, you would use zero birth control with both of your guys. The fact that your husband is making you use any birth control at all, is already going against your will and nature. Shy of divorce, I don't know what the solution is to that problem. At the very least I don't think your other partner should have to pull out prematurely. Just my opinion.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Token2]

A little different. Both my guys have had the snip, and we're fluidbonded - a remnant of a time we were close mfmf swinging friends.

My partner of 27 years gave me a set of rules in the beginning that became guidelines. One was the my boyfriend couldn't come in me unless my partner was there.

Boyfriend and I haven't been 1 on 1 dating for long or regularly too. Initially I just agreed. Then I decided it's my body, my boyfriend, where was this coming from? Control in the bedroom?

So I negotiated, my boyfriend has issues climaxing sometimes and I didn't like another barrier up, partner understood, heard me when I asserted that it's my body not his.

Happy Ending.

 

[icesong]

Are you guys lords or something? Paternity is a silly outdated concept that serves only to control the reproductive practices of the people in a relationship. So unless you are lords and need to have a legitimate heir so that they can inherit their title, I don't see the value in paternity.

I think it has value for the kid though, or can. I’ve gone into my weird backstory on the adoption thread, but short version is that I don’t know who my paternal grandfather is and frankly that is deeply weird to me. Not knowing who my actual father was would be even stranger, even if narrowed down to two possibilities. (And yes, DNA tests are a thing, I just twitch every time I see happy poly people doing the “kid could belong to either guy, we don’t care and are actively not finding out” thing - great for the adults, sure, but IMO unfair to the child.)

 

[HaloOnFire]

I just twitch every time I see happy poly people doing the “kid could belong to either guy, we don’t care and are actively not finding out” thing - great for the adults, sure, but IMO unfair to the child.

There are also possible health concerns involved. Genetics are a mfer and the child, who one day will grow into an adult, may want to know not only paternity, but any possible negative heath concerns by DNA sequencing. Not to mention the fact that word WILL get out that Mom doesn't know the father of the child. As if the child won't ask who their father is and then spend a lifetime trying to figure that out.

Cue the resentment towards the parent and subsequent bullying in school, not to mention the vicious gossip that will ensue because you can bet your sweet bippy that little Dakota with a silent f will run home to his mom Tiffany with a ph and blab that his friend doesn't know who is father is. Then you're gonna have to deal with THAT during PTA meetings. And for what? A 5 second cream pie and "my body, my choice"? While that is certainly true, however, @shykitten will ultimately have to deal with the ramifications of all of that. And that has no way of ending well. Especially for the child and/or any other children she may elect to have. Because if the question of the paternity of the first child is up for debate, you can yell until the cows come home that all of the subsequent ones are your husband's, I can pretty much tell you very few people will believe you.

And I am also going to address the elephant in the room, the taking away of your husband's consent to all of this. If the shoe were on the other foot and he took away YOUR consent to this, you would be screaming to high heaven. Put yourself in his shoes for a minute. If OP were solo, I think there would be a tiny bit more wiggle room, however, marriage puts a whole other spin on things.

I think it is terribly short sighted to think that none of the above would not ever be a thing at best. And flat out ignorance at worst.

 

[dingedheart]

Are you guys lords or something? Paternity is a silly outdated concept that serves only to control the reproductive practices of the people in a relationship. So unless you are lords and need to have a legitimate heir so that they can inherit their title, I don't see the value in paternity.

ARE YOU SERIOUS with this ?? Family planning means nothing ….being on the hook financially means nothing having another very labor intensive little human being in your house means nothing. You have women and society clamoring for men to step up their responsibility for the children they actually shire and you’re suggesting that the guy who’s specifically concerned over this just shut the fuck and relax unless he’s got a Noble title. We’re not talking about a puppy here. Paternity as a way to control reproduction.?? Where ?

I say, move into the current millennia and stop worrying about feudal age nonsense.

do you have any children …..that you know of ?

And just out of curiosity, is the plan to get a paternity test should you get pregnant? And if that poor child turns out to be someone other than your husbands will he divorce you and throw you out on the street? Will he allow you and your bastard child to stay in his lordly manner?

I’m not sure you know how the system works. If the poor child turns out not to be his and stated from the beginning he wasn’t up for or good with if he decided to divorce over that issue it would be him being throw to street. the system favors the mother and children. Kiss the fucking manor good bye.

Do you guys generally tell each other what to do like that? Is it common for one of you to lay down the law about how the other behaves when they are out living their life?

I don’t think you’re getting the bigger picture here It’s not the behavior it’s the consequence. If everyone was infertile I doubt this would be an issue. Lets say you’re nesting partner decides she wants to bring home 2 St. Bernard puppies…NO big deal right? How about human twins.

I would have a lot of difficulty not laughing in someone's face if they told me how I need to be having sex with someone else. I decide what my sex life looks like because I am an adult human.

nice that you have that luxury

Now, I can say that because I don't have a bunch of financial and social encumbrance with a partner. It sounds like you are pretty entangled and your decisions might be linked with this other persons. If that's the case then I guess you need to weigh living your life against living the life that your husband will allow you to live.

you convinced me. She needs to be the rebel and preemptively divorce his ass send a strong and clear message. Fuck him and his controlling ways. Save yourself.

 

[shykitten]

I once had a bf who for the entire time we dated (about a year) always pulled out before ejaculating. I think he'd just always done it and it was completely a habit. I was post-menopausal and there was no reason for him to do so, but he just did it automatically!

Anyway... there is always a small chance of pregnancy from birth-control failure. If you and hubby want to get pregnant, I assume you're not using contraception with him. If you do become pregnant, and even if you are, say, using both a condom and a diaphragm during sex with bf, there is still a tiny chance the baby could be his. Is your hubby so insistent on raising his own biological child that he would insist on a DNA test once the baby was born? What would happen if somehow, the baby was from bf's sperm? I just wondered. Would he disown the child, refuse to raise it, divorce you?

He would prefer it be his, and would want a pat test, but im pretty sure he would raise it regardless

 

[shykitten]

But if the husband has a serious paternity concern why is he suggesting pulling out as reasonable prevention?

Hes wanting pulling out in addition to the condoms

 

[Marcus]

I just twitch every time I see happy poly people doing t the “kid could belong to either guy, we don’t care and are actively not finding out” thing - great for the adults, sure, but IMO unfair to the child.

That's a bit of a different scenario, but I see what you are saying. I suppose my question becomes, why were YOU so interested in proving paternity? My guess would be because you grew up in a society that put value on that; value that I think is misplaced.

Not to mention the fact that word WILL get out that Mom doesn't know the father of the child. As if the child won't ask who their father is and then spend a lifetime trying to figure that out.

Is the OP suggesting hiding the paternity of the child from them? It sounds like the husband is going to drag her into the doctor to get documentation on the lineage of the child to prove if it is his heir to the throne, so it's not like they aren't going to know who the father is.

This topic isn't about that as far as I can tell, but about whether or not the wife is going to capitulate to the demands of how she is allowed to have sex with her other partner.

Because if the question of the paternity of the first child is up for debate, you can yell until the cows come home that all of the subsequent ones are your husband's, I can pretty much tell you very few people will believe you.

While I disagree with the fundamental assertion that proving paternity matters at all, I would also bring into question the health of a relationship in which one party has absolute distrust of the other. I get that paternity is the excuse here, but I don't think that's the real issue at hand in that scenario.

 

[Marcus]

ARE YOU SERIOUS with this ?? Family planning means nothing ….being on the hook financially means nothing having another very labor intensive little human being in your house means nothing. You have women and society clamoring for men to step up their responsibility for the children they actually shire and you’re suggesting that the guy who’s specifically concerned over this just shut the fuck and relax unless he’s got a Noble title.

Proving paternity, guys. Proving paternity is what is being discussed, not family planning, not having a frank conversation with your doctor, not taking care of yourself, and not how expensive it is to have a child.

We’re not talking about a puppy here. Paternity as a way to control reproduction.?? Where ?

This thread is specifically about her husband telling her what methods of birth control she is required to use, in service of the concept of being able to prove paternity.

Thus controlling her reproduction. This thread specifically is the answer to "where?"

do you have any children …..that you know of ?

This seems like a set up for a personal attack which I am not going to make available for you. You are making this a pretty unsafe for discussing that sort of thing, don't you think?

 

[icesong]

Children are expensive and it is well within a man's rights not to be stuck legally responsible for a child that is not his own.

Hell, in some states it doesn't matter if everyone involved 100% intends on the genetic father not being involved - there's a case up right now in my state where a lesbian couple got a friend to informally "donate" so they could have a kid; years later the couple has broken up and the custodial mother has fallen in hard times, and the state is going after the donor in question for child support... so yeah, paternity DOES matter even when people "join this millennia" and make reproductive choices in a very modern way...