Being 'Cold' In A Relationship

[Ostrich]

I've attempted to initiate sex with my spouse, DAG. Yesterday, he told me he'd like to have sex with me, but sometimes I use 'cold' logic (is there any other kind?) when discussing relationship issues with him, which makes him feel I put some distance between us.

I feel I need to put logic in place when dealing with him, as for me, putting any emotional equity in some of my issues with him, puts me in a vulnerable place. I've learned in the past to not do this as I get emotionally damaged in some of the things he does.

I am speaking from a Four Agreements standpoint (the book). Mainly towards the 'don't take it personal' stand point. For me to not take it personally, I need to disconnect from my emotional side.

My question is, does anyone else feel they need to disconnect their emotions from a situation or issue with their S/O? Also, does anyone else follow the Four Agreements within their own relationships?

 

[GalaGirl]

The four agreements didn't sound hard to me when I read that book.

• Be Impeccable With Your Word.
• Don't Take Anything Personally.
• Don't Make Assumptions.
• Always Do Your Best.

I've attempted to initiate sex with my spouse, DAG. Yesterday, he told me he'd like to have sex with me, but sometimes I use 'cold' logic (is there any other kind?) when discussing relationship issues with him, which makes him feel I put some distance between us.

A bit odd to bring it up during starting sex/sex to me.

If it's that Dag doesn't want to share sex right then because he needs to cuddle first or chat first or do ____ to reconnect first and not just jump into sex? Well, Dag could be clearer about that or you could ask.

Otherwise I would take that as "random announcement" and accept it at face value. When you talk to Dag with logic, it makes him feel like you put distance between you.

Nobody's making any actual requests of you. Nothing to fix or solve.

I need to put logic in place when dealing with him, as for me, putting any emotional equity in some of my issues with him, puts me in a vulnerable place. I've learned in the past to not do this as I get emotionally damaged in some of the things he does.

And that's what you need to do to deal with Dag. If he's not going to change his way of going so you don't end up dinged? You do what you gotta so you don't end up dinged.

My question is, does anyone else feel they need to disconnect their emotions from a situation or issue with their S/O?

It depends on the situation or issue. Could you give an example?

Because listening and taking things situationally rather than personally? I get that. Usually when people talk, it's more about what's going on with them than anything about me.

Disconnecting or "going numb" -- that's another thing.

In general...

I need to have done my own emotional management first.

The ones I need to "disconnect" most from are the dementia elders. I know I'm going to be in for a long, loopy, make no real sense conversation and that requires patience. Because whatever emotions I come in with, they are going to sense it and mirror it.

With anyone?

I need to know how I'm supposed to be listening. Like just letting them air out whatever and my job is to go "There, there. I'm sorry you had to deal with that" or if I'm supposed to listen and offer suggestions, solutions, advice. Maybe I'm listening for something else.

I also need to know how we are supposed to be talking and what the goal is.

Is this going to be a "feelings" talk or is this supposed to be an "actions" talk or a bit of both? Because with some people they get all bogged down in all the "feelings" it starts to feel like on and on and on to me. Esp if it comes at a time when I just want actions.

"Are you willing to do this? Yes or no?"

I just want an answer . If yes, great. Get on with it. If no, fine. I'll solve it another way.

But then people want to tell me their life story like why they can't do the thing or why it's so hard to do the thing.... and I don't care. If I haven't signed up to be listening like "let them air out" and apply "there, there?" This was just supposed to be an "action" conversation? I just want to get on with MY life and not be stuck here listening to random whatever. It amazes me how many adults feel the need to tell me "stories" because they are not used to other people just respecting their "yes" or "no" plain from the start and not make a big deal about it or try to guilt trip them or they don't have enough listeners in their life.

One of my kids calls it "The kindness starved people." You are basic polite and kind to them and here they come dumping out whatever it is they were gunnysacking.

So if I need to talk about anything serious or I'm just low on spoons, before I get into the conversation I ask the other person for data.

If they came to talk to me -- "What kind of conversation is this? How am I listening?" Then I either give my consent to do it right then, or say I can't do that right then and set an appointment to talk when I can deal with it better. Sometimes I also put it on a timer "I can only do 20 min. Does that work for you?"

If I go talk to them -- I explain what kind of conversation I want and ask if this is a good time for that or not. And how long I think it is going to take. Basically obtain consent from them.

That also amazes me -- how many people don't obtain consent from their spouse to have a conversation. They just assume the spouse is up for it any time all the time.

Well, I'm not. If I'm resting, I don't want to get into anything big. I also want conversations to get to the point. And at some point in the day? The office is closed. I'm winding down and trying to chill, not get all cranked up again. So unless something is on fire, put a note on my desk or email me. I'll get to it tomorrow.

I don't know if any of that helps you.

But I think it's ok to maintain personal boundaries with a spouse. I think one could maintain personal boundaries with everyone.

Galagirl

 

[Ostrich]

It depends on the situation or issue. Could you give an example?

For instance, (Mags is going to get on to me about this ) I apologized to one of of my metas, in an attempt to smooth things over, so they would feel comfortable in coming to our house to visit DAG. I had a conversation about that with DAG and basically told him I would never do that again, as I wasn't apologizing for something I did, but to make things easier for DAG and my meta. I said I would only apologize for something I did against someone (spite), not for anything else, or to help someone out. He thought that was 'cold' logic. As if I was making that decision, or implementing my apology plan, without emotion.

If they came to talk to me -- "What kind of conversation is this? How am I listening?"

I really like this. I'll start with this question when approached to talk and I sense it will be an 'involved' conversation. But with DAG, it's always an involved conversation.

That also amazes me -- how many people don't obtain consent from their spouse to have a conversation. They just assume the spouse is up for it any time all the time.

I see at some point in your life, you've met DAG. He approaches me without asking me if I'm busy, and starts a monologue. Sometimes I tell him that I'm busy, but then he takes it personal.

The four agreements didn't sound hard to me when I read that book

I haven't read the book, but read some of the bullet points associated with the agreements. I had some questions about 'not taking anything personally' and talked about it with my therapist. I now have a better understanding about that one, although it's hard for me not to take something personal from someone with whom I am close. Making assumptions is my weak point, as my mind jumps to all sorts of conclusions, but I am learning to ask questions for clarification.

 

[GalaGirl]

I had a conversation about that with DAG and basically told him I would never do that again, as I wasn't apologizing for something I did, but to make things easier for DAG and my meta. I said I would only apologize for something I did against someone (spite), not for anything else, or to help someone out.

Was this recent?

So you did a behavior. You were apologizing for things you did not do. That behavior did not pan out well for you.

Rather than you learning from the experience and just setting a new personal boundary for yourself that you won't be doing that again? And then just obeying your personal boundary?

You had to go explaining it to DAG? What for? It is your personal boundary. Not his.

Is it possible you two are a bit enmeshed and need to detangle some?

He thought that was 'cold' logic. As if I was making that decision, or implementing my apology plan, without emotion.

That's nice. He can think things.

Just like you can think things.

And? Where is problem?

Are you listening with judge-y ears on all the time and everything that gets said comes in through some kind of judgement filter?

Or can some things just be "random announcements from my spouse" that you don't have to actually do anything about and are not responsible for?

Or you just don't tell DAG when you updated your personal boundaries. They aren't for him to obey. You make them for YOU to obey. So then you get to skip any comments from the side about he thinks this or that. Because this is a private conversation you have in your head with yourself as you sort out your boundaries. He's not invited to this one.

But with DAG, it's always an involved conversation.

And that is fine for him. He is in charge of him.

It doesn't have to AUTOMATICALLY mean YOU have to be doing "involved conversations" all the time. You are in charge of you.

I haven't read the book, but read some of the bullet points associated with the agreements. I had some questions about 'not taking anything personally' and talked about it with my therapist. I now have a better understanding about that one, although it's hard for me not to take something personal from someone with whom I am close. Making assumptions is my weak point, as my mind jumps to all sorts of conclusions, but I am learning to ask questions for clarification.

You get to choose. You can either "react" or "respond." Neither is right or wrong. Just that one way is better than others depending on situation.

Car coming and kid in street? I'm gonna react and push them out of harm's way. Because one can heal from scrapes on the sidewalk and I can apologize later. You don't get to come back from being dead. It is NOT the time for debate, discuss, etc.

But just "reacting" like that is not a good approach for other situations that would be better served by taking a breath and considering a measured response.

Are you always "on guard" around him because everything is involved conversation with him and you don't know how NOT to be responsible for everything?

Or try to "head anything coming" off at the pass? Like you jump to the conclusions that something's gonna be "bad" or an "attack" so you rush to "defend?"

He approaches me without asking me if I'm busy, and starts a monologue. Sometimes I tell him that I'm busy, but then he takes it personal.

So he takes it personal rather than just a statement of where you are at in the moment.

If he wants to do that, it's his problem. Not yours.

If he has an expectation of "My spouse is my captive audience whenever I want" and he has moments where he bumps into this not actually being true? Why's allowing him to experience whatever emotions he experiences hard for you? It's just natural consequence of having an unrealistic expectation. He can either adjust the expectation to something more realistic. Or not.

Do you get upset if he goes out in the rain with no umbrella? And then has to feel however he feels that he got all wet?

You don't have to take his feelings on board for yourself. It doesn't mean you don't care about him at all. Just means you know the stuff and maintain good boundaries.

• Some of the stuff? His stuff and his stuff alone. His job, his responsibility.
• Some of the stuff? Your stuff. And your stuff alone. Your job, Your responsibility.
• Some of the stuff? Is "our stuff." It belongs to both of you. It is a shared responsibility.

On your end you could say "I'm doing this right now. I can't listen now. I could listen at ___ o'clock on ___ day. Could that work for you?"

It either does or it doesn't.

• If not? He can go find someone else to monologue at right then.
• Or he can wait til you are ready to listen.
• Or do a combo -- talk to someone else first while waiting for the appointment with you.

Again... it's ok to have personal boundaries in general. And it's ok to have them with a spouse.

You don't have to be up for everything they are up for.

Galagirl

 

[Ostrich]

GG,

As always, very insightful and helpful. Thank you for taking time to respond!

You bring to light some things I need to think about and develop additional boundaries and make my current boundaries stronger. I still have a lot of work to do.

With that:

Why's allowing him to experience whatever emotions he experiences hard for you?

because that's when *I* feel cold and/or unfeeling. Like I'm more disconnected than I need to be. As in 'you're feeling that way? too damn bad' I can be pretty black and white, when gray is more appropriate.

 

[GalaGirl]

Glad it helped you some.

Why's allowing him to experience whatever emotions he experiences hard for you?

because that's when *I* feel cold and/or unfeeling. Like I'm more disconnected than I need to be. As in 'you're feeling that way? too damn bad' I can be pretty black and white, when gray is more appropriate.

He can't have separate feelings from yours?

And if you detach... Does it have to come with the chip on the shoulder?

If things are coming at a loud "volume" -- well, what are you so angry about that isn't being heard? Cuz you don't HAVE to be here you know. You could walk away from this relationship.

Like if he went out with no umbrella and got all wet. Then he fusses.

You are gonna be like "You feel that way? Too damn bad!"

Or can it be ok to come at it on two layers? Out loud you say "Oh, that's too bad. You are all wet." Because it's ok to give sympathy to a spouse.

While thinking the rest only in your head. "OMG, Take the umbrella already!" because it is ok for your to feel frustrated with it.

Or simply detach and not even engage. He fusses about wet. And you go "Yes. I hear you" or "Yes, I see that." Simple declaration of fact. Your ears and eyes are operational.

And you think "Well, that's what happens. Natural consequence. You get wet if you go in the rain with no umbrella." And if he feels happy or sad or whatever? Has wet clothes? It's his deal to solve. Not your job or responsibility. Not mean about it. But this is NOT your stuff.

Because YOU get to decide what you are gonna get excited about and what you aren't. "Rain is wet" doesn't have to require any emotional response from you.

I have to do that a lot with the eldercare. They do things I think is nuts. But you know what? Dementia patients.

So I really do say "Oh, that's too bad. You are all wet. Next time maybe umbrella." and think whatever else in private in my head like "As if you'd even remember next time. You don't remember what you ate yesterday. Sigh."

Or I just mirror. "Sure is. All wet." And I do nothing else about it.

Because in the end? I don't HAVE to be doing this. I choose to be here. I can walk away if I don't want to assist any more with their care.

Just like with doing the apology when you didn't do anything wrong... make sure you aren't bending yourself into pretzels to be here while going against your own grain or ignoring your own needs.

It's ok to be angry, but you have to listen to where it is coming from and why it is there and not just act it out.

Like taking it out on him rather than being up front about it to yourself if you are outgrowing this dynamic.

Or have problems to solve that have been swept under the rug too long and you are tired of waiting to clear that out and the lump under the rug is impossible to walk on.

Like being all GRR and complaining about X when REALLY it is about Y.

YKWIM?

Galagirl

 

[Ostrich]

You are gonna be like "You feel that way? Too damn bad!"

LOL In certain situations, yes. I try to treat him like an adult. If he makes mistakes and then wants my sympathy for the outcome of certain things (your umbrella example), sure, I'll lend a sympathetic ear. For relationship issues with one of his friends+, too damn bad. Per one of my boundaries, I am not getting involved in that. He agreed with them to start a relationship, so it's up to him to deal with it. By the same token, I don't expect him to have sympathy whenever I have issues with one of my friends. I'll deal with it on my own, or talk to my therapist about it. If we have a mutual friend, I stay out of it and don't bring it up during my conversations with him or that friend. None of my business.

Oh, I know about passive/aggressive behavior. Which is one of the reasons I am in therapy.

 

[GalaGirl]

I guess that's where we differ then, even though we have the same boundary. In the "how" we say it.

My DH is very easy going but one of his firm things is that he is not the "clean up" man. He's very "I don't date them. You do. Don't bring weird stuff from that side over on to me on this side."

I share the same sentiment. I don't like getting sucked into other people's drama. So I just don't.

If I noticed he was struggling, I'd say "I'm sorry this is happening and you feel upset. I'm not the right person to talk about it with though."

Still treats DH like an adult. Still holds up my personal boundary.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Ostrich,

I think you've had to pull away from DAG, in order to protect yourself. DAG can see that you have pulled away, and so he has pulled away in turn. That is, he is turning you down when you try to initiate sex. At least that is the situation as I understand it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Does DAG know why you resort to pure logic sometimes, instead of investing yourself emotionally? If he does know, what does he have to say about it? You have been emotionally damaged (in the past) by some of the things he did (and in many cases still does). Has he apologized? Is he willing to make changes?

I take it you want to make sure you carry your share of the load. That you want to take responsibility for the part of the problem that you cause. That's very commendable on your part. Just leave room for DAG to take responsibility for the part of the problem that he has caused.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Ostrich]

GG,

My DH is very easy going but one of his firm things is that he is not the "clean up" man. He's very "I don't date them. You do. Don't bring weird stuff from that side over on to me on this side."

I am fairly easy going. Just don't be the back seat driver and don't bring your outside relationship drama to me, we should be fine. It is interesting that he never really brought his Polo drama to me, but damn if he didn't try to bring his Bruiser drama to me.

Kevin,

I think you've had to pull away from DAG, in order to protect yourself. DAG can see that you have pulled away, and so he has pulled away in turn. That is, he is turning you down when you try to initiate sex. At least that is the situation as I understand it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You pretty much nailed it on the head. I don't think he knows why I resort to a 'cold' position when I feel I need to do so. My problem was communicating to him how emotionally involved I was with him before opening up the marriage. He definitely didn't know that. I will go out on a limb and assume (lol) that had he known how invested I was, the open marriage situation would have moved in a more positive direction (i.e. we both would have been more on board and fully developed boundaries would have been in place).

He's apologized for certain things and that is enough for me. Trust me, I apologized to him for the things I did. So no saints on either side.

I appreciate you both for answering my question regarding 'cold' thinking/behavior.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am fairly easy going. Just don't be the back seat driver and don't bring your outside relationship drama to me, we should be fine. It is interesting that he never really brought his Polo drama to me, but damn if he didn't try to bring his Bruiser drama to me.

Is all this bubbling up because it's been about a year around now since DAG broke up with Bruiser and Fisticuffs? Hopefully DAG changed his behaviors since then and has stopped dumping weird at you. If you have both apologized for each one contributed to the situation making, maybe it's ok to just let it go once and for all and stop letting that episode cast shadows over the present day.

As for having personal boundaries with spouse -- I still think it is ok to have them. You seem to recognize you didn't have very strong ones back then. It's good you are working with a therapist to help you develop them.

Galagirl

 

[icesong]

I've attempted to initiate sex with my spouse, DAG. Yesterday, he told me he'd like to have sex with me, but sometimes I use 'cold' logic (is there any other kind?) when discussing relationship issues with him, which makes him feel I put some distance between us.

I feel I need to put logic in place when dealing with him, as for me, putting any emotional equity in some of my issues with him, puts me in a vulnerable place. I've learned in the past to not do this as I get emotionally damaged in some of the things he does.

I am speaking from a Four Agreements standpoint (the book). Mainly towards the 'don't take it personal' stand point. For me to not take it personally, I need to disconnect from my emotional side.

I've been pondering this question for a couple days, since really Knight is the logical type and I'm the emotional one. Here's the thing - every time Knight goes into the "logical relating and avoiding feelings" dance, I feel more distant from him. I honestly don't *care* what he thinks, in a lot of cases, I care what he feels... and to deliberately lock me out of that in order to not feel vulnerable is *absolutely* distancing.

Sex is vulnerable. OK, not all the time - it's totally possible to have a physical-only or FWB relationship. But within a emotionally involved / romantic relationship? Sex is absolutely vulnerable and if someone isn't willing to have emotional vulnerability with me, or isn't willing to be fully emotionally present when I am fully present with them? I have no interest in physical connection. (Conversely without physical connection, emotional vulnerability is also difficult - there's a bit of chicken and egg there but still).

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from Ostrich):

"I don't think he knows why I resort to a 'cold' position when I feel I need to do so."

Is that something you think you could explain to him? If I understand it right, you resort to a "cold" position because you don't want to get hurt again. He should be able to appreciate that.

 

[Ostrich]

GG

Is all this bubbling up because it's been about a year around now since DAG broke up with Bruiser and Fisticuffs? Hopefully DAG changed his behaviors since then and has stopped dumping weird at you. If you have both apologized for each one contributed to the situation making, maybe it's ok to just let it go once and for all and stop letting that episode cast shadows over the present day.

That situation is what caused me to re-think my view on my relationship with DAG and to change my approach in how I interact with him on certain issues. The statement he made about me being 'cold' was within the last couple of weeks. He also made the statement about me using 'cold' logic (I thought all logic was 'cold') earlier in this year (January or February, I think).

Yes, the comment he made about not being intimate with me because I came across as 'cold' sounded odd. As if someone is using some logic to navigate a relationship is somehow not sexual. Dude, I am a bleeding volcano (thank you Mick Jagger) and he knows it.

But within a emotionally involved / romantic relationship? Sex is absolutely vulnerable and if someone isn't willing to have emotional vulnerability with me, or isn't willing to be fully emotionally present when I am fully present with them? I have no interest in physical connection.

This helps a good deal. DAG is demi, so he has to have that connection before he even thinks about sex. Evidently, in my effort to become less emotionally vulnerable when practicing poly (because I am NOT putting myself in that position again), maybe I have shied him away from having sex with me. Fucking awesome (and not in a good way). We have a counseling session this afternoon. I plan to bring this topic up during the discussion.

 

[Magdlyn]

I know that sitch with Bruiser and Fisticuffs has left a deep scar. Those will never go away, but the scar tissue will hopefully get thicker.

On to the present. It sounds like DAG is very emotional and in your face. He wants you to be emotional in and his face too? Not "cold." Maybe he thinks he wants you to be like him... but then what would you have, a boxing match, blood and spit spraying around like in a Rocky movie? This reminds me of a time when my more than averagely-angsty teen daughter actually angrily complained to me that when there was a problem in our family, or with her, I was "too calm." "Why don't you yell and scream sometimes?" said she. lol Yeah, that would've helped. Not.

Maybe DAG is an Aries like my daughter.

 

[GalaGirl]

Being emotionally open and vulnerable only works for me in a safe space to do that in.

I read it as you (Ostrich) had already been open and vulnerable before when discussing relationship issues. Then you ended up getting emotionally damaged due to some Dag behaviors. You have both apologized. And are trying to move it forward.

So now you choose to be more "cool" when dealing with relationship issues and having to resolve conflict. Not all the time -- just in this area. So hopefully you don't sustain emotional damage again. Fair enough. Try a different approach and see if that works out better for conflict resolution.

If Dag complains that he doesn't like this style? Well... Dag can suggest another method to try then. Could work with therapist to come up with something. Could change the behavior that was originally causing the emotional damage in the first place so you aren't getting damaged any more and a "warmer" approach can happen.

Because what does he want? Wailing and gnashing of teeth? To somehow "prove" that you love and care about him even if going about things that way causes damage? Craves "excitement" or "drama?" (Cuz some people do.) Just wants to shoot all your ideas down without offering suggestions himself?

You have to find some kind of balance here that works for both.

If you two were super enmeshed as a couple before?

Dag may not perceive you cooling off and trying new things as you "finding a healthier balance" or "getting stronger." He might perceive it as "Ostrich is abandoning me." Or maybe he likes the old you better. This new you that holds the line and holds him accountable? He may not enjoy that. On the flip side if you were enmeshed with Dag, even though the healthier thing is to have some better personal boundaries? Letting this happen more:

• Some of the stuff? His stuff and his stuff alone. His job, his responsibility.
• Some of the stuff? Your stuff. And your stuff alone. Your job, Your responsibility.
• Some of the stuff? Is "our stuff." It belongs to both of you. It is a shared responsibility.

Rather than EVERYTHING being "our stuff" all the time whether it really is or isn't? Like joined at the hip?

You might experience guilt watching him flail or get upset because of the changes. Or you might feel weird doing less because you were used to overdoing.

I hope the counseling sessions helps you both figure out what is going on here and how to work on it without raising unnecessary hackles or defenses. That sounds like it would just keep it in the stuck rather than moving forward.

Galagirl

 

[Evie]

I'm curious to hear how the counseling session goes.

There's obviously a massive issue around the word "cold" right now so perhaps there is a lot of subtext to it. When it comes to logic, I believe the delivery can be done in different ways. Perhaps it's not the logic itself, but way it was delivered that was perceived as cold. More Vulcan than human?

 

[Ostrich]

GG

Because what does he want? Wailing and gnashing of teeth? To somehow "prove" that you love and care about him even if going about things that way causes damage? Craves "excitement" or "drama?" (Cuz some people do.) Just wants to shoot all your ideas down without offering suggestions himself?

Why yes, yes he does. He loves conflict in a relationship. It's a rush (maybe adrenaline) for him. Which is why he still has a relationship with Polo. That's a relationship from which I stay away.

If you two were super enmeshed as a couple before?

DAG tells me several times a week that he wants to be around me 24/7 (I assume that's textbook 'enmeshed'). That confuses me. Why need other romantic relationships if you want to be around me that much? We've talked about that. His response is this want is a 'fantasy' and in 'reality' it wouldn't work. If that's what one really wanted, wouldn't they work to make that happen? With Covid, it's definitely happening now.

You might experience guilt watching him flail or get upset because of the changes. Or you might feel weird doing less because you were used to overdoing.

Nope, no guilt from me. If what I am doing is helping me move forward and experiencing a more happy and fulfilling life, then I can't help how he feels about it. It's not like I am improving myself to hurt him.

Evie

I'm curious to hear how the counseling session goes.

I'm a little disappointed about how it went. We have a new counselor and this is the second time we've met with her. She wanted some family background from both of us, so that used up all the scheduled time. No worries, it's on my agenda for the next meeting.

You guys are incredible. I responded to Mags in another thread with this: I know I can be tiring with my issues, but you all have been very supportive and willing to listen. This means a great deal to me and I can only hope I can help others just as much. Thank you!!

 

[Ostrich]

Mags

On to the present. It sounds like DAG is very emotional and in your face. He wants you to be emotional in and his face too?

He can be, yes. Not as much as I have been. The shouting matches (mostly from miscommunications) during the B/FC era were epic (The Last Night of Games immediately comes to mind). Which is why I'm in therapy and why we are in marriage therapy. We've discussed about his need to see a therapist. He is for it, but needs to do the financial math to make it happen. Please know there has been NO physical violence between us. I will NEVER let it get that far. I know I wasn't asked about this, but I feel it still needs to be said.

Maybe DAG is an Aries like my daughter.

No, he is a Libra like me. LOL. Go figure.

Edited because my proofreading skill are sketchy today.

 

[icesong]

On to the present. It sounds like DAG is very emotional and in your face. He wants you to be emotional in and his face too? Not "cold." Maybe he thinks he wants you to be like him... but then what would you have, a boxing match, blood and spit spraying around like in a Rocky movie? This reminds me of a time when my more than averagely-angsty teen daughter actually angrily complained to me that when there was a problem in our family, or with her, I was "too calm." "Why don't you yell and scream sometimes?" said she. lol Yeah, that would've helped. Not.

... I have literally had that conversation with Knight. Not one of my finest moments... especially because the times that Knight _does_ approach things more emotionally do end up in epic shouting matches (or have, that hasn't really happened in years.)

But seriously for people who live life, hmm, emotions first - of which I'm one and it sounds like DAG is as well - displayed emotion is a barometer of not just *what* someone feels, but *how much* they feel it. So "cold" logic feels as if the person I'm talking to doesn't give a damn.

Because what does he want? Wailing and gnashing of teeth? To somehow "prove" that you love and care about him even if going about things that way causes damage? Craves "excitement" or "drama?" (Cuz some people do.) Just wants to shoot all your ideas down without offering suggestions himself?

For me, at least, it's that I crave *passion*, in all its forms. Calling it craving drama is I think a bit judgemental.