Poly mess...

[Pollyolly]

Hi, I was hoping to share my current predicament. My wife and I have been together for almost 20 years. We have lived our entire adult lives together and have three children. Over the past couple of years we have been discussing non-monogamy off and on.

We agreed that we were poly and that we should be free to explore any relationships we wish, with the rule being that we are always honest with each other. But then nothing happened; we continued with our monogamous life. That was until one day she downloaded a dating app. I thought this was a great idea and downloaded one myself one evening, helping her to write her bio. It was great fun!

She started to get matches and arranged to meet up with a guy, it was a difficult evening, but she went with my blessing, with me stating that these feelings are my problem and not hers and that she should have fun, be safe and not do anything that she would not want me to do.

When she came home she was practically floating, telling me how lovely it was that they got on well, kissed and did some heavy petting. The next day she planned to meet with him again. I suggested that she wait until I went on a date, so she can see how it feels to be the one left at home. I also suggested that it might be a good idea for us to spend the evening together to reconnect. But she was adamant that she would be fine, rejected my concerns and still wanted to go. So she went, with my blessing.

She then went to see him after work (without telling me ahead of time). She told me later the same evening. I was upset but accepting, stating that this could only work for me if we were honest. She maintained that all they did was kiss and touch. This sounded unlikely, but I accepted it at face value. She was still very happy and talking about how she felt this guy just "got her," how he could be a feature in our lives and telling me I should meet him, to which I said, "If you keep dating him, I will happily meet him."

She then planned to meet him for a fourth day in a row, but he cancelled. She felt hurt and basically decided that she no longer wanted anything to do with him.

She later admitted that she had sex with him on the first date. I was upset about the dishonesty, but not really about the sex.

She was a little hostile that evening, as I was talking to women on a dating app. But I continued with her blessing. Then I organised a date. She struggled with this, especially due to jealousy about me making an effort and dressing up but accepted it and let me go. When I got home she was very angry and upset, despite the fact that my date and I just sat, drank coffee and enjoyed a connection.

She told me that she did not want to do this anymore and that we should return to monogamy. I did not feel that this was acceptable. She'd ignored my warnings and advice, she had slept with a stranger within an hour of meeting him and spoke about him being part of our lives, but was now telling me that I couldn't have a coffee date.

I told her that this was unacceptable to me. I said that we'd made an agreement and that I would continue to explore this connection. She gave her blessing for a further date, but made it very difficult. She was very emotional, which meant that I left the house with a heavy heart to meet my date. Even so, I had a lovely second date, which ended with a kiss. I felt like a teenager again! But when I returned home, she was cold and once again insisted that we stop.

She is now saying that she will consider telling our children if I continue, and has alluded to divorce. This is not what I want at all. I love my wife very much and I love our life together, but feel that this is all very unfair. I feel like if we go back to monogamy this will be unacceptable to me, as it would just means that my wife had cheated. She feels like it is unacceptable to remain poly, saying that if I continue she would feel that I am cheating on her.

I've tried to understand where she is coming from, but she is unable to give me any insight, just stating: "I don't want to be poly. I feel like I'm losing my husband."

Any advice would be welcome.

 

[Bobbi]

I’m sorry you are going through this! it sounds like you both just jumped in without any research, true introspection and deep conversation. I’d recommend taking a big step back, reading some books (opening up, polysecure, ethical slut, sex at dawn), listening to podcasts, (multiamory) and really learn and discuss everything polyamory.

I know you want this, but it will still be here once both you and your wife have done the research and work. If at that point she still isn’t able then you’ll have to decide what you want to do. For now, she’s hurt (maybe even feels used) and scared she will lose you too. Give her time to process what happened to her and learn from it while you two explore poly WITHOUT dating others.

If you choose to not be poly after all the research, you’ll have gained a better understanding of each other, hopefully upped your communication skills and will have learned how to have a better relationship so the research is very worth it.

 

[Evie]

I tell her that this is unacceptable to me, I said that we made an agreement and that I would continue to explore this connection.

Good on you. Stick to your guns and don't let her tantrums dictate your relationship model. You could encourage her to meet more people and not have one unfortunate experience make her throw in the towel. Where's her resilience? Why did she want to be poly in the first place? One bad week and she's giving up on everything? Is there some kind of underlying personality disorder at play here? Or did you really open for the "wrong" reasons?

I suggested that she wait until I go on a date so she can see how it feels to be the one left at home,

This tit for tat isn't a great way to approach things. Notions around taking turns, or only dating when the other person is, is steeped in couple's privilege and makes it really unfair on your dating partners.

I've tried to understand where she is coming from but she is unable to give me any insight just stating: "I don't want to be poly. I feel like I'm losing my husband"

She is losing her husband, but with this behaviour it's because she's being a nightmare, not because you're enjoying a coffee, or sex, or anything else with another person. She (and you) wanted to redefine your relationship parameters - that is losing the stability and security your marriage (perhaps falsely) had - but building something new, deliberate rather than default, which can lead to more security.

If she will not articulate her actual concerns, then can you write out a bunch of specific things, like absurdly specific if need be, put them in a hat and have her draw them out and see if they resonate, or spark an idea. Maybe just do one deep dive at a time. Limit your discussion to 90 mins max. Here's some ideas: If the household is (more) financially dependent on you, she might worry about losing some of that spending money. If that's the case, how can you create a fair budget for dating? Is she worried that you'll go to a certain restaurant (etc.) that she considers a special place for the two of you? Is she worried about the kids liking or disliking any of your future partners? Is she imagining you'll end up dating someone she currently imagines is physically perfect, always fun, intellectually vibrant etc. (spoiler, no such person exists). Is she worried that a new partner will do something different and awesome during sex and you'll either lose interest in her (wife) or try to get her (wife) to do something she doesn't want to do? Get creative with all the possible things that she could be fretting over. If pulling them out of a hat is too game-ish for you, could you create a likert scale survey for her to get a visual picture of what she fears most and what she fears least.

If she's really not going to engage with the process at all, then you have to consider if you want to stay mono, or leave because she refuses to grow as a person.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle.

She then went to see him without telling me after work, she told me later the same evening. I was upset but accepting stating that this can only work for me if we are honest.

She IS being honest. You two agreed to poly date. She's dating Dude.

How micro-detailed does it have to be? Is it about the FREQUENCY? Is this like "training-wheels" agreements, because this is the first person she is polydating, and over time you won't need so many check-ins? Or is this really how you want to practice poly: checking in after every single date?

Perhaps this is showing you both need more talks and more education.

The next day she planned to meet with him again, I suggested that she wait until I go on a date so she can see how it feels to be the one left at home,

No, it is not a good idea to do a "tit-for-tat" kind of dating. People are not cookies: a cookie for her, a cookie for you.

I also suggested that it may be an idea for us to spend the evening together to reconnect.

You two DO need your own regular dates. Are those on the calendar?

She maintained that all they did was kiss and touch, which sounded unlikely, but I accepted it at face value.

Have you talked about safer sex practices? Are you and wife going back to condoms with each other?

What will continued consent look like now? Is it going to be: before you and she share sex together you both learn to ask: "Since the last time we shared sex together, have there been any new people or changes in your risk profile? Were safer sex practices used? On my side, there was..." Or have you not gotten to that part of the talks yet?

She then planned to meet him for a fourth day in a row, but he cancelled. She felt hurt and basically decided that she no longer wanted anything to do with him. She later admitted that she had sex with him on the first date. I was upset about this dishonesty, but not really about the sex.

Sigh. So are they DONE done now?

You seem willing to forgive her becoming carried away and sharing sex, but want to nip that "kid in a candy store" behavior in the bud.

So maybe it is time to talk about continued consent and what your NEW safer sex practices are gonna be. Newbies make mistakes and need a safe space to learn skills in. What is THAT gonna look like? What are you willing to chalk up to that and what are your "hard no" dealbreakers? There will be no grace for things like _____?

It sounds like you two jumped in blind.

I've tried to understand where she is coming from, but she is unable to give me any insight, just stating: "I don't want to be poly. I feel like I'm losing my husband."

Does she mean she is mourning the loss of the familiar old relationship? You both will experience the loss, and maybe not at the same time. And maybe she will not realize you are grieving the "old normal" being gone, because she is distracted with the NRE high from the new dating. There are mixed feelings all over the place.

You DID break up, on purpose, in order to create a new model called polyamory. Some people get all NRE-high, or are thinking: "This is just like before, only with new partners added!" But emotionally is is NOT just like before. Emotionally it is breaking up and ending the old monogamous relationship on purpose, in favor of creating a new model that is new, untried, untested, and shaky.

The old normal is gone. The new normal isn't here yet. And the transition space in between feels weird. Even though it's NORMAL that it feels weird, getting through it less fearfully and less wackadoo means being able to SLOW down and think this out and avoid pitfalls.

"Kid in a candy store" syndrome is one of them. So is getting all huffy and "tit for tat." You do not HAVE to have the same dating styles. You are different people.

Maybe do more reading while you seek a counselor?

Practical Polyamory

Information on relationship skills, education and activism information related to the practice of polyamory; polyamory media resource.

web.archive.org

kathylabriola.com

Kathy's new zine published by Microcosm Guide to Happy Polydays: How Polyamorous People Can Thrive Between Thanksgiving and New Year's Book Reviews by Kathy Labriola:See Below_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

www.kathylabriola.com

Even if you stop and go back to monogamy, it will not be the same as before you opened Pandora's Box in the first place.

So SLOW DOWN.

She tells me that she does not want to do this anymore and that we should return to monogamy. I did not feel that this was acceptable. She ignored my warnings and advice. She had slept with a stranger within an hour of meeting him and spoke about him being part of our lives, but is now telling me that I can't have a coffee date.

Well, what's your goal?
Do you want an apology?
To get even?
To get past these stumbling newbie things with your wife, less awkwardly?
To break up with wife?

Read "poly hell" together. Avoid these pitfalls:

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for

www.kathylabriola.com

Talk about how to handle NRE so you aren't being all NRE-drunk with each other. Do you LOVE dealing with someone drunk on beer who insists they are NOT drunk? It's a pain in the ass, right? This is similar-- NRE-drunk people insisting they are not drunk, but behaving like PITAs to their partners. Avoid that pitfall.

I tell her that this is unacceptable to me. I said that we made an agreement and that I would continue to explore this connection.

Good. Speak up about what you are and are not up for. Have clear personal boundaries. At the same time, she reserves the right to change her mind and quit. You too have the right to change your mind and quit, quit anything-- poly, the marriage.

But don't get all hotheaded, either.

I know it sucks that you were being decent and she fucked up, didn't handle her hinge skills well. She shared sex on the first date and lied about/minimized it later. And now that shoe is on the other foot and you are dating she's not handling her metamour skills well either.

And then the side questions: Were safer sex practices, like condoms, used with Dude? Do y'all have to get labs done, and then follow-up labs, because things take time to show up? Have you talked about cheating on poly agreements and what that looks like? How will you both do better and avoid THIS pitfall in future?

She gave her blessing for a further date, but made it very difficult. She was very emotional, which meant that I left the house with a heavy heart to meet my date. Even so, I had a lovely second date, which ended with a kiss. I felt like a teenager again! But when I returned home, she was cold and once again insisted that we stop.

Both will have to learn to self-soothe sometimes, and to say to each other: "No, not at this time. I have other prior commitments. I can do X instead."

I think you could counter-offer: "We can't keep going with wonky poly like this. I don't want to play tit-for-tat and make bigger messes. I don't want to hurt myself, or you, or any new potentials either. These first experiences are showing that we need more work. How about I set up a couples counselor? We both had one poly dating experience. Let's take a time-out to reassess. Would you be willing to attend counseling?"

But if she means she's done, she no longer wants to do polyamory at all, then you get to decide if you prefer to give it up and stick with wife in a monogamous marriage, or if you prefer to part ways so you can pursue poly dating on your own. It's not something to decide instantly. And you might want to talk to a counselor on your own about all that, and everything that happened, even if spouse doesn't want to.

Just because you were compatible for practicing monogamy together, doesn't automatically mean you are compatible for practicing polyamory together.

YMMV, but you could try:

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

www.polyfriendly.org

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Pollyolly,

Sadly, it sounds like polyamory is not a good fit for your wife. She is not able to be honest with you, and her feelings about poly people, and about poly itself, are all over the map. One moment she's filled with enthusiasm, the next moment she wants nothing to do with it. These things add up to being a bad sign. I know you probably want the poly to continue, but you also don't want to break up with your wife and that's what might happen if the poly continues.

You may have to choose between poly and your marriage.
With sympathy,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hello Pollyolly,

Sadly, it sounds like polyamory is not a good fit for your wife.

After one week. three dates for wife and two for the OP, it's too soon to say that so categorically. That's why we're here with advice about how to make this work for both parties.

She is not able to be honest with you.

She could learn.

Her feelings about poly people, and about poly itself, are all over the map. One moment she's filled with enthusiasm, the next moment she wants nothing to do with it. These things add up to being a bad sign.

We know that for many people, starting to practice polyamory is an emotional rollercoaster. It's too early to tell if wife can't learn to ride the wave. We know the OP wants to continue getting to know his new person.

I know you probably want the poly to continue, but you also don't want to break up with your wife, and that's what might happen if the poly continues.

It's always a possibility, but let's be optimistic and hope for the best!

 

[Magdlyn]

My wife and I have been together for almost 20 years... have three children. Over the past couple of years we have been discussing non-monogamy off and on.

Discussing it as a fantasy, but not doing the actual research, was a very common newbie mistake on both your parts.

We agreed that we were poly and that we should be free to explore any relationships we wish, with the rule being that we are always honest with each other.

Feeling like you have a lot of love to give and are poly at heart is one thing. Actually successfully practicing polyamory is going to take some work. Giving ultimatums and going off the deep end emotionally happens, but I hope you two can calm down and work through things as partners and with love.

But then nothing happened; we continued with our monogamous life. That was until one day she downloaded a dating app. I thought this was a great idea and downloaded one myself one evening, helping her to write her bio. It was great fun!

But then, reality hit.

She... arranged to meet up with a guy. It was a difficult evening [for me], but she went with my blessing, with me stating that these feelings are my problem and not hers and that she should... not do anything that she would not want me to do.

Did she know what you did not want her to do, or did you expect her to read your mind? It's best to be crystal clear. Instead, she did what she wanted to do, had sex. But maybe you had told her it was fine with you, if she did that.

When she came home she was practically floating, telling me how lovely it was... [she said] they kissed... heavy petting. The next day she planned to meet with him again. I suggested that she wait until I went on a date, so she can see how it felt to be the one left at home.

This, as others have said, is not practical. Quite often men have a harder time finding a poly or poly-friendly woman to date, while women get hit on much more often. It was unusual that you found someone nice so quickly, who is okay with dating a married man! Is this woman poly too?

Anyway, what you wished for backfired, didn't it? She freaked the hell out when you went on one coffee date, while keeping the secret that she'd had SEX on her first date!

I suggested that it might be a good idea for us to spend the evening together to reconnect. But she was adamant that she would be fine, rejected my concerns and still wanted to go. So she went.

She then went to see him after work [without telling me ahead of time]. She told me later the same evening. I was upset but accepting, stating that this could only work for me if we were honest. She maintained that all they did was kiss and touch. This sounded unlikely, but I accepted it at face value.

[/QUOTE]
Some people don't feel able to be truthful in polyamory. It's so unusual in our culture to be poly, we hold on to old beliefs that we are cheating, even though we have our partner's consent. But she took this to extremes, didn't she?

She was still very happy and talking about how she felt this guy just "got her," how he could be a feature in our lives...

She then planned to meet him for a fourth day in a row, but he cancelled. She felt hurt and basically decided that she no longer wanted anything to do with him.

Well, expecting dates four nights in a row from a new dating partner is probably expecting too much. People have lives, jobs, friends, activities... At least he cancelled and didn't just ghost. Welcome to the world of dating! I've been outright ghosted more times than I care to remember.

She later admitted that she had sex with him on the first date. I was upset about the dishonesty, but not really about the sex.

Yikes. She just went for it, huh? Did she have sex on the first, second and third dates? Did she use condoms? It's big of you to not be at least a bit concerned she had sex with a stranger on a first date... but I agree, the lying is worse. However, word to the wise: I never have sex on a first date. Any time I have broken my own boundary, that has ended up as the last date, because the guy just wanted a quick hookup.

She was a little hostile that evening, as I was talking to women on a dating app. But I continued with her blessing. Then I organised a date. She struggled with this, especially due to jealousy about me making an effort and dressing up, but accepted it and let me go. When I got home she was very angry and upset, despite the fact that my date and I just sat, drank coffee and enjoyed a connection.

She told me that she did not want to do this anymore and that we should return to monogamy. I did not feel that this was acceptable. She'd ignored my warnings and advice; she had slept with a stranger within an hour of meeting him and spoke about him being part of our lives, but was now telling me that I couldn't have a coffee date.

I told her that this was unacceptable to me. I said that we'd made an agreement and that I would continue to explore this connection. She gave her blessing for a further date, but made it very difficult. She was very emotional, which meant that I left the house with a heavy heart to meet my date. Even so, I had a lovely second date, which ended with a kiss. I felt like a teenager again!

[/QUOTE]
You got a taste of that old NRE! It's a blessing and a curse. Some people seek NRE while some poly people actually dislike it because it can feel almost like a mental illness. It's a rose-colored glasses time...

But when I returned home, she was cold and once again insisted that we stop.

Obviously, this is hypocritical, but we see it often. It's much more fun for a poly newbie to be the one on a date rather than the one dealing with their primary being on a date. But it's something all polyamorists have to work through and learn how to deal with.

She is now saying that she will consider telling our children if I continue, and has alluded to divorce.

Whew, an extremely black and white reaction. Don't use the kids as pawns! Wow. Is this kind of threat common with her when you two disagree?

This is not what I want at all. I love my wife very much and I love our life together, but feel that this is all very unfair. I feel like if we go back to monogamy this will be unacceptable to me, as it would just mean that my wife had cheated. She feels like it is unacceptable to remain poly, saying that if I continue she would feel that I am cheating on her.

There is no need to throw accusations of cheating at each other. "You're a cheater!" "Well, you're the cheater!" Instead, find common ground and admit you're both struggling with poly boundaries, choices, decisions, etc.

I've tried to understand where she is coming from, but she is unable to give me any insight, just stating: "I don't want to be poly. I feel like I'm losing my husband."

She is afraid of loss, and she didn't expect this would happen. She wants the fun but not the work. She's kind of in shock.