Hello, I am very confused

A

azurebonds

Active member
Hi, everyone!

I very recently (2 months) entered what I think is a poly relationship. I have been trying to read up and learn.

My wife (38F) and I (37M) have been married for 14 years. When I discovered that my friend (39F) had feelings for me, I went to my wife to ask what to do. This included the option of potentially ending my friendship. After some discussion and outside opinion, we opened our relationship.

Both of them have zero interest in being with anyone but me. I have always been introverted, so this is likely my maximum too. We’ve discussed and set the expectation that the relationship is closed to additional partners.

My understanding is that this is polyfidelity, which is part of polyamory; however, there seems to be an implicit assumption within my online readings that openness is a requirement of polyamory. Furthermore, my current girlfriend has expressed interest in becoming another wife, which is polygyny, which I understand is not considered ethical within ENM.

So, in summary, I am confused on where I belong.
 
I think you had more options for a response to your friend developing feelings for you, such as, "Okay, she has a crush. She can live with that and just continue to be a platonic friend." Monogamous people can get crushes and choose not to act on them.

Do YOU have deep loving romantic feelings for her too? You don't say.

Why did you choose to take her on as a gf just because she had a crush on you?

Is your wife just suddenly on board with you having another lover too?

Are you and friend having sex?

Why does she want to jump right to being your second wife? Does she want to move in? Why? It sounds to me like she has NRE and is acting a bit crazy because of it.

Would your wife want to share her home with another partner of yours? Why or why not?

If you are determined to actually romantically date or have sex with this friend, why get so serious after just two months?

Finally, poly-fidelity is fine if everyone in the network agrees. In your case, it would be polygyny, one man/two women. But it's only oppressive if you, the man, order the women to not date anyone else. There's a chance one or the other of them could develop a crush on another person. They can choose not to act on this, but it shouldn't be an order coming from you that they only date/fuck you (one-penis policy, aka OPP).
 
My understanding is that this is polyfidelity, which is part of polyamory; however, there seems to be an implicit assumption within my online readings that openness is a requirement of polyamory.
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Well, you, your wife "Red," and your new partner "Blue," get to arrange yourselves however you like. If you all want to be a closed poly V with nobody dating anyone else at this time, cool. Be polyfidelitous.

If one of you changes your mind and wants to date others, could talk it out at that point in future, and renegotiate or disband.

But for now, be okay being how you are. You are two months into poly dating for the first time and and learning as you go.

Furthermore, my current girlfriend has expressed interest in becoming another wife, which is polygyny, which I understand is not considered ethical within ENM.
Click to expand...

Why not? Your personal ethics are your PERSONAL ethics. There is no "global ENM collective" that declares what is ethical or not.

You and Blue would need to talk that out if you both (over time) share a desire to marry. You and Red would have to talk, too.

Unless Red and you want to divorce and change to ex-spouses who continue to date each other, you could have a commitment ceremony with Blue. But it would not be a LEGAL marriage in most places. It would only be a legal marriage if you divorced Red first.

Some poly people talk to a lawyer about forming LLCs and things to help protect partners.

But again... this can be stuff to figure out much further into the future. This is only 2 months in. One doesn't make major life decisions that early into dating.

It's okay to feel a little weird about it because it's new. It's okay to be where you are at now -- at the start of things.

Do not rush. That is my suggestion to you. Keep reading, but remember, ultimately your poly practice and how you do it is up to you, not other people and whatever it is they are doing.

Galagirl
 
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Magdlyn said:
I think you had more options for a response to your friend developing feelings for you, such as, "Okay, she has a crush. She can live with that and just continue to be a platonic friend." Monogamous people can get crushes and choose not to act on them.

Do YOU have deep loving romantic feelings for her too? You don't say.

Why did you choose to take her on as a gf just because she had a crush on you?

Is your wife just suddenly on board with you having another lover too?

Are you and friend having sex?

Why does she want to jump right to being your second wife? Does she want to move in? Why? It sounds to me like she has NRE and is acting a bit crazy because of it.

Would your wife want to share her home with another partner of yours? Why or why not?

If you are determined to actually romantically date or have sex with this friend, why get so serious after just two months?

Finally, poly-fidelity is fine if everyone in the network agrees. In your case, it would be polygyny, one man/two women. But it's only oppressive if you, the man, order the women to not date anyone else. There's a chance one or the other of them could develop a crush on another person. They can choose not to act on this, but it shouldn't be an order coming from you that they only date/fuck you (one-penis policy, aka OPP).
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Let me start by saying that I am a trust and regret it later person. So, I am going to start from the assumption that these questions are in good faith and that you are simply trying to make sense of my behavior.

Know that you are in good company. It’ll likely take me a few years to unravel the motivation behind the mess that I have created. All I can say is that it seemed like a good idea at the time.

That being said, after reading your message this morning, it got me started on that “dangerous pastime” of thinking.

I think some context into my background is warranted. I have some severe trauma around infidelity, mostly derived from my parents. In fact, if you wanted to look at a pair of individuals who should definitely not have children you’d have to look no further and yet their genes will inherit the Earth.

So, I think that it was this fear that drove me to over communicate to my wife as it appeared that strong feelings, not physicality, were developing. That and I am not the type of person that likes surprises, either on giving or receiving. In fact, I would likely be startled and scream if anyone ever threw me a surprise party.

Long story short, I’m convinced that the entire thing was driven by a manic episode.

And yet, here we are. Both monogamy inclined women seem surprisingly onboard with the situation. So, I am just rolling with it at this point.

It has certainly increased happiness rather than hurt, so I don’t think any real harm has been done.
 
azurebonds said:
Let me start by saying that I am a trust and regret it later person. So, I am going to start from the assumption that these questions are in good faith and that you are simply trying to make sense of my behavior.

Know that you are in good company. It’ll likely take me a few years to unravel the motivation behind the mess that I have created. All I can say is that it seemed like a good idea at the time.

That being said, after reading your message this morning, it got me started on that “dangerous pastime” of thinking.

I think some context into my background is warranted. I have some severe trauma around infidelity, mostly derived from my parents. In fact, if you wanted to look at a pair of individuals who should definitely not have children you’d have to look no further and yet their genes will inherit the Earth.

So, I think that it was this fear that drove me to over communicate to my wife as it appeared that strong feelings, not physicality, were developing. That and I am not the type of person that likes surprises, either on giving or receiving. In fact, I would likely be startled and scream if anyone ever threw me a surprise party.

Long story short, I’m convinced that the entire thing was driven by a manic episode.

And yet, here we are. Both monogamy inclined women seem surprisingly onboard with the situation. So, I am just rolling with it at this point.

It has certainly increased happiness rather than hurt, so I don’t think any real harm has been done.
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Part 2:
I realized that I didn’t answer everything, specifically about marriage and living arrangements.

I suppose that I must make claim to my impulsivity, but we are talking about down the road for marriage. I have not proposed. It’s more like, she wouldn’t say no if I did.

In terms of moving in, that would make my girlfriend and my relationship a lot easier as it’s fairly long distance.

What about my wife? Well, she would never have to live with her because I technically own two houses, though one is an ADU.

It wasn’t always this way, I actually grew up quite poor (e.g. free lunch, church donated clothes, cloth diapers). I, however, was given the gift and the curse of OCD.

Basically, after the mortgage crisis started, I got laid off and could not find a job for 3 months, as I lost my first job in my field. Those were hell, but they triggered something in me, a near compulsive need to hoard wealth.

So, yes. I am a hoarder. I just hoard money and assets. This over the course of 15 years has made me a millionaire, so I can pretty much afford to keep them happy in whatever home they want, together or not.
 
GalaGirl said:
Well, you, your wife "Red," and your new partner, "Blue," get to arrange yourselves however you like. If, at this time, you want to be a closed poly V with nobody dating anyone else, cool. Be poly-fidelitious.

If one of you changes your mind and wants to date others, talk it out at that point in future, and renegotiate or disband.

But for now, be okay being how you are, two months into poly dating for the first time and and learning as you go.



Why not? Your personal ethics are your PERSONAL ethics. There is no "global ENM collective" that declares what is ethical or not.

You and Blue would need to talk that out if you both (over time) share a desire to marry. You and Red would have to talk, too.

Unless Red and you want to divorce and change to ex-spouses who continue to date each other, you could have a commitment ceremony with Blue. But it would not be a LEGAL marriage in most places. It would only be a legal marriage if you divorced Red first.

Some poly people talk to a lawyer about forming LLCs and things to help protect partners.

But again... this can be stuff to figure out much further into the future. This is only 2 months in. One doesn't make major life decisions that early into dating.

It's okay to feel a little weird about it because it's new. It's okay to be where you are at now -- at the start of things.

Do not rush. That is my suggestion to you. Keep reading, but remember, ultimately your poly practice and how you do it is up to you, not other people and whatever it is they are doing.

Galagirl
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Thank you. You’re the first person to address the ethics question. I have been wondering what the basis was for “ethical” in ENM (e.g. Kant, Utilitarian, Social Contract), but it often appeared to be subjective.

I hope that I am not going to anger anyone with this statement, but I have noticed a certain amount of group think online, which ENM has not been spared from; however, that may simply be the nature of online platforms.

As for making the marriage recognized by the government, I don’t see that happening any time soon or really important. Most rights, except for tax advantages, can be conferred by legal documents anyway.

I would probably be most interested in the LLC route, but that’s definitely for a later time.

Thank you again. I am feeling more OK with our path here.
 
Glad it helps you some.

I have noticed a certain amount of group think online, which ENM has not been spared from; however, that may simply be the nature of online platforms.
Click to expand...

I think that's just life with both online and offline groups. People are people.

GG
 
Greetings azurebonds,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

I have a similar situation to yours, it is polyfidelitous like yours, it is a V like yours but MFM instead of FMF. Also the three of us share a home together. It is very much like our hinge partner, the female, has two husbands, so maybe you would call that polyandry, but we consider it a subset of polyamory. If you have any questions for me, let me know.

The "ethical" part in ENM has to do with mutual consent. For that reason ENM is often referred to as CNM (consensual nonmonogamy). This is my philosophy also. If whatever you do is done with mutual consent, then what you are doing is ethical (and moral). Granted, ethical doesn't always correspond to legal, e.g., it isn't legal to have multiple legal spouses.

Hopefully that helps,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

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If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
Thanks for answering some background questions. This isn't reddit. You can see that if you read around the boards a bit. We are respectful here and really try to help.

I don't waste time offering advice if I don't understand the situation.

If you're a millionaire with two houses, and the ladies both love you, and everyone is so happy with the current poly situation, how is this such a "mess"? Why are you so confused and asking for help?
 
Magdlyn said:
Thanks for answering some background questions. This isn't reddit. You can see that if you read around the boards a bit. We are respectful here and really try to help.

I don't waste time offering advice if I don't understand the situation.

If you're a millionaire with two houses, and the ladies both love you, and everyone is so happy with the current poly situation, how is this such a "mess"? Why are you so confused and asking for help?
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My primary purpose was to introduce myself to this community. It was less a seeking help post, but perhaps it should be? Though the following may certainly go beyond what’s acceptable within this introductory thread.

I was confused because, as you say, Reddit is less than helpful. For example, I have a psychiatric appointment next week. How do I even begin to explain my current situation that developed between the last appointment? It would be nice if I fit into a nice box, something acknowledged by the poly community, but I don’t.

When I say that the polyamory community appears to see openness as a requirement, it seems to conflict with polyfidelity in the sense that its closed nature may be fundamental to the relationships, not as a choice after it’s formed. Sure there’s always the option or choice to leave the group, but as someone once said to me, it doesn’t seem free. Is that freedom a requirement or not?

The reason that I called it a mess is that if I am making so many life changes while manic, I must be extremely high. The low swing will probably be suicidal. If I am able to regulate myself, I may find myself in a polycule that I didn’t want, now sterile and with at least 6 more piercings. Or it could be exactly what I want, it’s hard to say. I have yet to do something that I didn’t truly want while manic, it’s just in excess. For example, last month I got my ears pierced and then almost proceeded to buy a $10k pair of earrings. I still want some earrings, but maybe not at that price.
 
For example, I have a psychiatric appointment next week. How do I even begin to explain my current situation that developed between the last appointment?
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"Pysch, I need to make you aware that since our last appointment, I've started poly dating and now have two partners. What's your experience in treating poly patients? Have you read these?

https://www.communitysolutionsva.or..._Professionals_Should_Know_About_Polymory.pdf

Polyamory: A Clinical Toolkit for Therapists (and Their Clients)​

Is this going to be an issue in my patient care? Should I be seeking an additional counselor to field some of the poly stuff?"

There are poly-friendly professionals.

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory
www.polyfriendly.org


When I say that the polyamory community appears to see openness as a requirement, it seems to conflict with polyfidelity in the sense that its closed nature may be fundamental to the relationships, not as a choice after it’s formed. Sure there’s always the option or choice to leave the group, but as someone once said to me, it doesn’t seem free. Is that freedom a requirement or not?
Click to expand...

WHAT "poly community?"

Some people prefer or require open. Some prefer or require closed. Some are open or closed, depending on where they are in their life in the moment. People get polysaturated.

There is no "one answer fits all."

Sure there’s always the option or choice to leave the group, but as someone once said to me, it doesn’t seem free.
Click to expand...

People getting to make their own decisions for themselves is not them exercising their free choice to you?

The reason that I called it a mess is that if I am making so many life changes while manic, I must be extremely high. The low swing will probably be suicidal. If I am able to regulate myself, I may find myself in a polycule that I didn’t want, now sterile and with at least 6 more piercings. Or it could be exactly what I want, it’s hard to say.
Click to expand...

Doing your patient-management things is something else. What's your guideline for making decisions while manic or not? Like, if you get manic and buy a dozen bags of M&Ms, all right. It is a lot, but not the end of the world. You can eat some, return some, freeze some for later, give to friends, etc. It's fixable.

Buying 12 cars would be another thing.

I have yet to do something that I didn’t truly want while manic, it’s just in excess. For example, last month I got my ears pierced and then almost proceeded to buy a $10k pair of earrings. I still want some earrings, but maybe not at that price.
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Because you have that kind of money, you might have to talk to professionals about managing it properly, if you have a health condition to manage, as well. Like, you could go manic and blow up to $X at the most, but your trust fund, or whatever you set up, won't let you blow your principle or run through the whole shebang. It would cut you off before you made too huge of a mess.

I don't have experience with that kind of money, but perhaps it is best you talk to someone about it.

Galagirl
 
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GalaGirl said:
"Pysch, I need to make you aware that since our last appointment, I started poly dating and now have two partners. What's your experience in treating poly patients? Have you read this? https://www.communitysolutionsva.or..._Professionals_Should_Know_About_Polymory.pdf

or

Polyamory: A Clinical Toolkit for Therapists (and Their Clients)​

Is this going to be an issue in my patient care? Should I be seeking an additional counselor to field some of the poly stuff?"

There are poly professionals.

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory
www.polyfriendly.org



WHAT "poly community?"

Some people prefer or require open. Some prefer or require closed. Some are open/closed depending on where they are at in their life in the moment. People get polysaturated. There is no "one answer fits all."


People getting to make their own decisions for themselves is not them exercising their free choice to you?


Doing your patient-management things is something else. What's your guideline for making decisions while manic, or not? Like, if you get manic and buy a dozen bags of M&Ms, all right. It is a lot, but not the end of the world. You can eat some, return some, freeze some for later, give to friends, etc. It's fixable.

Buying 12 cars would be another thing.


Because you have that kind of money, you might have to talk to professionals about managing it properly, if you have a health condition to manage, as well.

Like, you could go manic and blow up to $X, at the most, but your trust fund, or whatever you set up, won't let you blow your principle or run through the whole shebang. It would cut you off before you made too huge of a mess.
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Those look like good resources. I’ll read up on at least the PDF before my appointment. Thanks.

Perhaps I should get off of Reddit. There is certainly a hive mind there that acts in unison on positions.

The reason that I brought up that example regarding decisions was specifically because it was brought up to me about my situation. Basically, since we all agree that the group is saturated as is, the expectation is that it will stay that way. If that changes, we’ll likely dissolve or set new expectations, which, to me, is 100% reasonable.

I am not enforcing a 1-partner policy. I have been told that is what they want for themselves. It’s now a part of what I have agreed to. And since that’s the case, and neither of them want to have additional children, then logically it makes sense for me to get a vasectomy. This raises a whole bunch of expectations that are probably far beyond this thread.

When I have a manic episode, I might move states, do body alterations, gamble or spend vast quantities of money, become a landlord or apparently, become polygynous. I have done all of these. I have been lucky in all of these circumstances; however, I have put in multiple safeguards so that I don’t have full or quick access to the vast majority of it. I have limited the blast radius to ~$25k, but I may need to reduce that to $5k. My girlfriend jokingly calls my life story “failing upwards.”
 
I have limited the blast radius to ~$25k, but I may need to reduce that to $5k. My girlfriend jokingly calls my life story “failing upwards.”
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Yup. Limiting the blast radius to $5K might be a good idea.
 
I don't go to reddit because 10 years or so ago I ran into redditor-type trolls on another board and found them extremely unpleasant. From what I read here from a few members, the poly subreddit is annoying and full of group-think, as you say. Just don't go there. They can have their opinions and do their bullying, but there is no reason on earth you need to expose yourself to it. There's no use going there to debate and try to change anyone's mind. I don't debate people who are entrenched in their ideas. It's just a waste of my time.
 
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