New Here. Out Of My Depth.

[notsureatall]

Hey everyone. I've lurked here for about two years. Spent the last year reading (Come as You Are, Ethical Slut, etc). Still stuck.

Firstly, I don't want to take up space here, as we aren't in this LS yet, or maybe ever. However, maybe what's going on with us will ring bells for people and they can offer advice.

My wife and I have been married for 14 years. For a lot of years, my wife was quite repressed sexually. Then, she started a new job and ended up with work friends, a few bisexual women and a hotwife. At the time, I didn't really understand some of the stories she would tell me of their nights out together. She came out of her shell a lot, and came out as bisexual 4 years ago.

We ended up having a weekend away from the kids to connect. Ended up having the best sex of a decade that weekend. She was really interested in what kind of women I was attracted to, which puzzled me. I found she would talk about me and other women and have no jealousy. She would rarely mention men and women on her side. I didn't get jealous.

The past four years have not been smooth sailing. Occasionally, when we had a weekend away, she'd say she would like to have a girlfriend. I asked her what that would look like, and instead she'd change the subject to what I wanted. She focussed on me being with another woman. This went on for about two weeks, discussing it each night. What would we tell the kids about daddy having a girlfriend? (She figured we could make them understand and not be hurt. I was less convinced.) What we would tell friends and family?

She became really keen on me finding someone to go on a date with. When I didn't, she seemed to get pissed off and said she hadn't meant anything by what she said; she was just being sarcastic.

From my side, I wanted to take things slowly. I also noticed that we hadn't talked about what her path would look like at all. The conversation went dead for a bit.

Then she invited a friend of hers to join us for dinner at a romantic restaurant. She was very giggly and jokey and happy about it. The woman had cold feet and cancelled last minute. My wife was pretty down for a few weeks. She would give any reason other than the friend who ditched us for why she felt bad.

Now she has come out of her funk. We have talked, and she has said that she does want us to have a threesome, or maybe a third, but she wants it to be totally organic. To me, that is totally unrealistic and inviting disaster. I've told her I'm not willing to go down that route. I don't see us organically walking into a thrupple, or a threesome. If we've not discussed boundaries or guidelines, it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I'm well aware that we aren't ready for this. Even if this path is right for us, it's years away. What bothers me is my wife's total focus on my partner and my needs, and almost no mention of what she wants. She always changes the subject back on to me.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello notsureatall,

Have you explained to your wife that you need her to discuss what it would look like if she had a second partner? If you have, what was her response? or did she just again switch the topic over to a second partner for you? in direct contradiction to what you asked? Did you then firmly repeat your first statement, asserting that you don't just want to talk about a partner for you, you want to talk about a partner for her too. You might have to push, before she'll talk about her side of the equation. Or does she change the subject no matter how much you push? If so, I don't know how you can make any forward progress. Heck, maybe this is all just a fantasy to her, and that's why she doesn't take it more seriously.

Sorry you find yourself stuck like this,
Kevin T.

 

[dingedheart]

Hey, notsureatall. Welcome to the forum.

To me, this is feeling like frog-boil manipulation at best, and at worst, a good old-fashioned trap.

 

[Evie]

Hi and welcome to posting! Since you've been here a couple of years, you know the warnings against unicorn hunting, so you can outright tell your wife that you refuse to engage in it. Actually, it sounds like you have said this, but she's not listening, she's all caught up in her fantasies. That's definitely a recipe for disaster as despite her use of the word "organic" I suspect she's got the whole thing scripted out in her mind.

Threesome, thrupple, N shaped polycule, it sounds like she's entertained all of these ideas over the last four years, probably from the influence of these colleagues. But it still sounds like she's withholding her deepest truth about why she wants this. Perhaps she truly doesn't know, or doesn't have the language to express it, or simply doesn't want to admit to it.

But bottom line is, fantasy and reality differ drastically. I had a meta that, prior to it actually happening, kept insisting her husband meet another woman, get a girlfriend. She got hugely annoyed and distressed when he met multiple new women, she had it scripted in her mind that there would be just one other. Regardless of them agreeing to being out with their respective people 3 nights week, she was hurt that while she found one person to go out with all three nights, he could be out with someone different each night. Same time commitment, totally different experiences. ISSUES.

 

[notsureatall]

Have you explained to your wife that you need her to discuss what it would look like if she had a second partner? If you have, what was her response? Or did she just again switch the topic over to a second partner for you, in direct contradiction to what you asked? Did you then firmly repeat your first statement, asserting that you don't just want to talk about a partner for you, you want to talk about a partner for her too? You might have to push before she'll talk about her side of the equation. Or does she change the subject, no matter how much you push? If so, I don't know how you can make any forward progress. Heck, maybe this is all just a fantasy to her, and that's why she doesn't take it more seriously.

Sorry you find yourself stuck like this.

She really avoids talking about women. It's very hard to even pin down if she is attracted to women. About 5 years ago, she had an intense attraction to a married lesbian colleague that I only found out about recently. Beyond that, it's hard to even know if there is much desire there or for you. I've asked multiple times and she will deflect to talking about me with other women, or shut down the conversation entirely.

My goal isn't necessarily polyamory, as I'm not sure we will ever be right for it. My goal is to understand where my wife's head is. For example, just before we got married, she wanted me to go out on a date with her best friend, just because her friend was single and had done some nice things for us. My wife wanted me to take her to her favourite Italian restaurant. At the time, I knew nothing outside monogamy and it freaked me out. I've done a lot of reading since then. My wife still throws out these kind of hints, but I don't feel she's educated herself or moved on.

We have a bookshelf of books on the topic, and she doesn't even read the ones she buys, let alone mine.

 

[notsureatall]

Since you've been here a couple of years, you know the warnings against unicorn hunting, so you can outright tell your wife that you refuse to engage in it. Actually, it sounds like you have said this, but she's not listening; she's all caught up in her fantasies. That's definitely a recipe for disaster as, despite her use of the word "organic," I suspect she's got the whole thing scripted out in her mind.

Threesome, thrupple, N-shaped polycule, it sounds like she's entertained all of these ideas over the last four years, probably from the influence of these colleagues. But it still sounds like she's withholding her deepest truth about why she wants this. Perhaps she truly doesn't know, or doesn't have the language to express it, or simply doesn't want to admit to it.

But bottom line is, fantasy and reality differ drastically. I had a meta that, prior to it actually happening, kept insisting her husband meet another woman, get a girlfriend. She got hugely annoyed and distressed when he met multiple new women. She had it scripted in her mind that there would be just one other. Regardless of them agreeing to being out with their respective people 3 nights week, she was hurt that, while she found one person to go out with all three nights, he could be out with someone different each night. Same time commitment, totally different experiences. ISSUES.

I'm dead against any sort of unicorn hunting. I find my wife's suggestion of this happening organically concerning. When do we get to have the conversations about needs, wants, boundaries and expectations? I don't think I even understand what she wants.

Polyamory may not be for us. This might all be better as fantasy, but I'm tired of years of my wife hinting at various forms, me educating myself, doing the emotional labour, only for her to act like one day we might just fall into this by accident. Sometimes I shut it down, but a year or so later I find it pops up in a slightly new form.

Her parents were swingers, which I think may have influenced things.

 

[notsureatall]

To me, this is feeling like frog-boil manipulation at best, and at worst, it’s a good old-fashioned trap.

I know what you mean, but why would she do this? Does she want rid of me, so she can be have multiple partners?

 

[dingedheart]

I know what you mean, but why would she do this?

It wouldn’t be the first time opening/poly was used to cover up an affair, or as a soft exit from a marriage. Guilt can be a big factor for some. I think it feels better knowing they helped their spouse start dating again and find someone to love and who enjoys having sex with them. It soothes the guilt of destroying the guy emotionally, and maybe financially, if he had some companionship already lined up.

It could be a way of dragging things out into the open, and at the same time, pretending it was ethical and aboveboard.

Does she want rid of me, so she can be have multiple partners?

Hard to say, but I’d think there’d be easier and quicker ways to be rid of you. However, she could want multiple partners, and fears your reaction. By innocently getting you in the pool having fun, it will be a “see isn’t this fun?“ moment. Time to take off your water wings. I’m signed up for a gangbang. Hope you don’t mind. As graphic, extreme or crazy as that might sound, I’ve heard crazier. Or I guess the definition of crazy or extreme gets super-subjective for a newbie.

 

[Magdlyn]

Your wife was raised by swingers. Maybe she was confused by that. Maybe she never truly understood it. Maybe she tried to ask questions and was shut down, or things were denied, or she was lied to... I have no idea. It seems something is making her be so in denial about wanting a gf of her own-- because that seems to obviously be what's going on. Maybe she's already having an affair, or a series of affairs.

She seems to have some kind of internalized homophobia.

Meanwhile, she's trying to get you interested in having another gf. But you're not interested, because she's being so shady, and also refusing to do the proper research and reading into ethical non-monogamy. Instead, she's possibly just getting all her info from the queers and swingers at work, and that's all she's willing to do.

I see you say you shut down this conversation from time to time, but she keeps opening it up again. I would suggest drawing a firm line in the sand: "I refuse to discuss this with you again unless we do it in front of a couples counselor." Period.