FMF poly with kids kinda situation

[Etherealbeing]

I wanted to share a bit about my life and see if I can find some poly support.

I live alone with two kids and am dating a man who is married and polyamorous, with two kids, as well. I know the wife, and we get along okay. I've been in this kind of relationship before, and it was difficult and beautiful. Now, with more experience, maybe a little bit better, but struggling with some areas.

I want a close relationship, to live together and all of it. I am someone who throws themself fully into a relationship. It doesn't really work for me to be a little bit of something. And as we have been dating for a 1-2 years, depending on how we count, I do like to be involved in my partner's life, more and more every day, and see it going somewhere, with a mutual desire to live together one day, but no hurry, as there are kids involved.

Things I'm currently struggling with:

1. Metamour relationship

In order to live together I would have to be friends with the wife, or at least get along well. I do like her. There has even been some sexual/romantic interest, but I am scared of getting closer because of some red flags and my previous experiences. This summer I decided to get to know her better, as I have time and space inside me. I just find myself very tired after getting to know her more. She is beautiful and interesting, but also suffers from mental health stuff. I know she needs an ear and support. But being in this role of her therapist and support person, when I don't feel the same level of support from her, makes me weary. I have told her before I can't help with their relationship problems, and am not the person to talk to if she has grudges with her husband. I just direct her to talk to him, a friend or a therapist, not me. Still, having to uphold this boundary is exhausting, and I see she would really want and need me to be her support person, or maybe an ally, to understand, and take her side in her struggles with her husband. There I draw the line. I have my own struggles with my partner (luckily, not the exact same ones, or the same way of dealing with them as they do), and I can't really help, because it's just not my place and because my answers wont work for her.

I'm feeling a bit of relief just writing about this. I see I just have to find a way to get to know her, while keeping boundaries with her. From my position, of being the new person coming to their house, to their life, taking my kids there, I would like to have her take me in with some more hospitality, I don't know, respect, some boundaries. She does like me there and wants me there, but she doesn't really, for example, prepare a bed for me and my kids, or ask what we or I would need to be comfortable, ask me how am I doing, etc. It feels more like she needs me to be the grownup in this relationship, and a listening ear, to make her comfortable, give her attention when I come to see my partner, and so on.

I sometimes help with their house and kids. I do have boundaries around this. Sharing life like this is my desire, but I need it to be mutual. My partner does help me with stuff too. In their family dynamic, my partner does most of the taking care of the house, and she is unable to admit this. At first I though it was just a regular couples quarrel about household chores, but as time has gone by I see my partner is right. The wife struggles with being alone with the kids, feeding them, participating in cleaning, etc. When I am with them we do these with my partner. She mostly focuses on her art and stuff. She does crafts with the kids, and is a loving mom, but the day-to-day housekeeping is minimal, just helping with something every once in a while. It's really exhausting for my partner. She is oblivious to it, and easily triggered when confronted about the subject.

So... I really don't have a choice of whether I want a relationship of some sort with her. There will be, at least, the metamour relationship, figuring out how or if it is possible to create a life together without burning out. I am too grown up to think people will change. I know she has good intentions, even if she doesn't know naturally what to do. I'll probably have to keep clear boundaries, and make some requests, while, to some degree, accepting her for what she is, and that living together would mean me and my partner take care of the house. Feels a bit heavy, but I am doing it alone right now anyway, so... Still, I'd at least would need her to admit that's the situation and be a little grateful for it. Any advice?


2. The imbalances

Sometimes it feels heavy, wanting to commit deeply to this relationship, as I feel society will never see me as a full partner. I am afraid I am putting my kids and myself in a precarious situation by thinking of moving in with them one day, even just being here with him/them now. A lot of it is stigma and minority stress. I've had really bad experiences with this before, and it still hurts. They do seem to have a real openness to sharing life with me. But there is a rule, basically, that no more children are be had. I also know marriage is not possible because of the law, even though we can make some other sorts of rituals and commitments. Also living together depends in reality on my ability to accept the wife in my life.

Sometimes I worry about becoming their nanny and maid, and her support person, especially considering the wife's personality traits, I see this could happen very easily. Being the one without any legal protection or backdrop to fall on if things go sideways it does feel like walking a bit on thin ice. There is a backdrop, of course. I have my own friends and family nearby where I live. And from experience, I know, going into a situation like this could easily end up where I am giving up my own life to join theirs. Or is this a fear of mine? Both a fear and a possible reality if I don't keep my boundaries? Right now, I'm just considering if it would feel good to go to their place more this summer and spend more nights there, slowly, while keeping my own home safe and still separate. Wanting to go there, not to join their life and relationship dynamic, losing myself, rather creating something new together.

3. Seeing other people

I like long committed relationships. I don't like chaos or constantly changing relationship dynamics. In a way, the ideal situation for me would be to just be with my partner for a few years, maybe five, for the relationship to settle before opening up to new people. But I have encountered some interesting people before making a clear decision on this, and as my partner is married, I feel it difficult to just be with him for so long. It feels uneven, and maybe the occasional date and texting with other people helps me feel like I still have my own life and opportunity for intimacy outside of the partner/wife/me polybubble. A little room to breathe outside the dynamic. But I often find myself torn between needing this little breathing room and at the same time wanting to commit to this fully and giving the dynamic time to settle before introducing anything new.

I go back and forth between just wanting to be with him/them and needing freedom to explore other connections. Some sort of attachment confusion at play here, for sure. But also, just real needs for safety, connection and, on the other hand, freedom, autonomy. Any thoughts on how I could stop the back and forth and find clear ground here?

Many themes in this one message. Mostly it just helps me get it out there, as we live in an area where the polycircle is small and I don't feel comfortable going to a poly meeting to open up about things and have everyone know our difficulties. Feels better here, covered with some anonymity. Talking to monogamous friends mainly hurts again, because they just wonder how can I be happy just being the side chick. They ask me if I wouldn't want a "real" partner. Ugh. They try, but too often these thoughts shine through, or come up at some point. My partner does his best to treat me like a princess. Even though he is not perfect and has a busy life, he manages to makes time for us. He has been making space for me in his life, while respecting his commitments to his wife and family. It's sometimes frustrating to be having to juggle time like this, which is also why I believe living together would be best in the long run, if we can make it work. Any advice and/or thoughts are very welcome.

 

[Tinwen]

Just for inspiration about living arrangements:
I'm not great friends with Meta. I don't hate her, we have common social circles and did some music together in one of them, but her personality is just overwhelming. So I'm not gonna make her a roommate (or rather kitchen-mate) ever.
What we did was get two apartments in the same house. It took some time. But now the hinge partner can just walk from one flat to the other within two minutes. I mostly just meet Meta at the door when they need to exchange some stuff or so.
Their kid can also just run downstairs and ring if they want to talk to dad.
Waaaay less overwhelming than true "living together".

 

[IndieSolo]

It sounds like you always go to their house to be with your partner. Does he ever come to yours?

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Etherealbeing,

It kind of goes without saying that the right thing for your metamour to do would be to grow up a little, at least enough to see a professional about her mental health issues, and stop venting to you about her husband. Unfortunately, I don't think she will do that, and you have the unenviable task of repeatedly asserting boundaries with her, on what you can and can't do. You'll have to decide whether moving in with her (and her husband) is worth all that bother. I don't think she's going to extend the hospitality toward you that she should, she just isn't capable of considering your feelings, and it doesn't look like she ever will be. Can you live with that?

You have other obstacles, such as never having spousal privileges or the protections of the law. But you said it yourself, you are not a person who goes halfway, it is all or nothing with you. This isn't necessarily a bad way to be, but it does mean you have to cope with the challenges of moving in with this couple. You also have the dilemma of whether to date other people during the first five years with your husband. I'm not sure what to advise in this regard. As the disadvanted "third" in this relationship, you need to date others, yet it would interfere with your intention to go all in. In any case, there is much to be gained by moving forward with this.

Sympathy and regards,
Kevin T.

 

[MeeraReed]

It sounds like living with this couple would be a disaster. You'd be miserable in their dynamic.

Can you imagine a long-term committed future WITHOUT all three of you living together? As Tinwen suggested, maybe two residences near each other, where the husband can split his time with each of you.

Also, I think you should put effort into dating to try to find a second partner for yourself. Maybe you would end up with another serious partner with whom you can plan a future of living together, without a challenging metamour dynamic. Maybe you will one day split your time between a home with your other partner, and visiting your boyfriend and his wife in their home.

I just mean, polyamory has so many potentially possibilities and configurations, I would suggest you not let yourself get "locked in" to one particular dynamic or one particular vision for a future.

 

[GalaGirl]

I don't know if this helps you any. Here's what sticks out to me.

But being in this role of her therapist and support person, when I don't feel the same level of support from her, makes me weary.

Don't do this role.

From my position, of being the new person coming to their house, to their life, taking my kids there, I would like to have her take me in with some more hospitality, I don't know, respect, some boundaries. She does like me there and wants me there, but she doesn't really, for example, prepare a bed for me and my kids, or ask what we or I would need to be comfortable, ask me how am I doing, etc. It feels more like she needs me to be the grownup in this relationship, and a listening ear, to make her comfortable, give her attention when I come to see my partner, and so on.

Do you not expect the hinge to prepare all this stuff, since he's the one you're actually dating, and the one who is hosting you all there as his guests? Why would your metamour have to do it?

Why would all three of you have to live together in one home? Couldn't you have a nest, and your metamour have a nest, and then the hinge splits his time living with each one of you? It could flats in the same building, a duplex, a house with a garage apartment, houses in the same neighborhood, or similar. The hinge would spend one week here and one week over there.

Then you could live part-time with hinge, skip being the nanny/maid at your metamour's nest, and make space to date other people when you want to.

You wouldn't have to give up your life, or stress as much about legal protections, or losing your home. Your nest would be yours already.

I go back and forth between just wanting to be with him/them, and needing freedom to explore other connections. Some sort of attachment confusion at play here, for sure. But also, just real needs for safety, connection and, on the other hand, freedom, autonomy. Any thoughts on how I could stop the back and forth and find clear ground here?

Some people do polyamory because they want more commitments. They want them with more than one person.

It's ok for you decide when you feel like dating and when you do not. Do not promise to close the relationship. If you take break from dating others, it's because you want to take a break from dating, not because you can't date. When you feel like dating again, you date again.

What are the approximate ages of the kids? If they are all younger, like elementary school age, there is going to be a lot of hands-on parenting still. If they are in HS/college, the teens want to be on their own, with their friends, etc., so the parenting load eases up some.

Galagirl

 

[Etherealbeing]

It sounds like you always go to their house to be with your partner. Does he ever come to yours?

He does. Actually he mostly comes to mine, because I've been listening to myself and keeping that as a boundary. That I will spend time at theirs only when I feel comfortable. So often I feel burntout and overwhelmed after being at theirs, that I decided already in the beginning of us dating, that we should start by doing things that feel comfortable. That means my place. But I don't see the relationship can grow unless we learn a way of being at theirs too. That's what I decided to do this summer, to try it out, see if we can be together the three of us. If my discomfort is a boundary speaking or something else. Or if we can create boundaries and ways to meet also my needs when we are at theirs.

 

[Tinwen]

But I don't see the relationship can grow unless we learn a way of being at theirs too.

Can you articulate this more? Why isn't parallel good enough? What needs of yours aren't met well enough?

Does your metamour agree with your assessment?

 

[Etherealbeing]

Hello Etherealbeing,

It kind of goes without saying that the right thing for your metamour to do would be to grow up a little, at least enough to see a professional about her mental health issues, and stop venting to you about her husband. Unfortunately, I don't think she will do that, and you have the unenviable task of repeatedly asserting boundaries with her, on what you can and can't do. You'll have to decide whether moving in with her (and her husband) is worth all that bother. I don't think she's going to extend the hospitality toward you that she should, she just isn't capable of considering your feelings, and it doesn't look like she ever will be. Can you live with that?

You have other obstacles, such as never having spousal privileges or the protections of the law. But you said it yourself, you are not a person who goes halfway, it is all or nothing with you. This isn't necessarily a bad way to be, but it does mean you have to cope with the challenges of moving in with this couple. You also have the dilemma of whether to date other people during the first five years with your husband. I'm not sure what to advise in this regard. As the disadvanted "third" in this relationship, you need to date others, yet it would interfere with your intention to go all in. In any case, there is much to be gained by moving forward with this.

Sympathy and regards,
Kevin T.

I think you are right. And this is where I struggle, and the thoughts I keep returning to. I don't see her being malevolent or intentional in her disregard, but she just seems to have these difficulties, which she denies, which ends up in more parent-child, caretaking dynamics. I see the emotional needs she is presenting me, see they are real and she is honest, but it would never be reciprocal.

Admitting the situation is hard. I feel like I am putting her in the position of a child. Is that fair? Can I trust my judgement, or do I see her wrong? Sadly, I know I don't. Still, it bothers me on many levels that I can't see her as a full adult. But she doesn't behave like one. So expecting it would lead to more disappointment and pain for me. She is not bad, I don't hate her, but the dynamic is heavy.

Can I live with it? I see it would be like a caretaking situation, and I am good at that. But it is part of my work also. Do I wanna? Can I do this in my free time? Would I do that? I am even considering. Don't know if it wise.

I see my partner carrying the load of it alone and I feel like helping. I do also see it has been his decision to marry this woman, in a way, his load to carry. But then, he gives me a lot of support. He is great with my kids.

I do joke with my partner that the situation might be easier if the roles where reversed, if I were the wife, and she the girlfriend, because I have the tendency to take responsibility, and she is overwhelmed by it. Really, the big problem for me is being the one taking so much responsibility, while being "the disadvantaged third," as you put it. This I feel heavy in my heart. I could caretake for a meta, but from that place of disadvantage it feels unfair.

As for dating others, I am open to it, because in my clear mind I see this is the right thing for me to do, to keep my eyes open. But my heart doesn't really have space for others at this point. I probably have to find clarity and some sort of closure on this situation before that space can open. The question for myself is, do I want to go all in with him, even with the difficulties? Or will I be able to make the relationship lighter, only see him maybe at my place more, and understand this will keep our relationship small? (I might not want this at all.) Or do I have to end things with him and close this chapter before I start seeing other people? As I like to go all in, I really struggle with the idea of keeping our relationship as something smaller than what it would organically be. I've considered that a number of times and just the idea hurts really bad, but so does the idea of breaking up.

 

[Etherealbeing]

Can you articulate this more? Why isn't parallel good enough? What needs of yours aren't met well enough?

Does your netamour agree with your assessment?

Currently things are quite good actually. He comes to my place to spend the night once a week or so. We talk on the phone a lot, support each other that way. Spend time with kids together. It's good. But I am lonely sometimes, would need support sometimes, and his commitment priority is to take care of his home and kids. Also mine to take care of my home and kids. So there is that distance and being left alone when I would need closeness, a hug, things like that.

Also our kinky/sexual relationship is at a hault almost, because I don't want to be left alone afterwards. Well, not at a hault, but it is smothered. We try to make time for this, but my aftercare needs + his time restrictions and family obligations make it difficult. I need and want that sexual/kinky connection and time, but I need my partner there with me later on, also the day after preferably, or at least night after. We used to do this regardless, and it hurt me. So now we just do it, when we have that proper time together. It's fine for some time, but I see it'll end up affecting us in the long run.

I also want to live with someone. Share the day to day. Have future plans. They have a house they just bought a few years ago. There is plenty room, and neither of them is wanting to move. Considering I live in a rented flat, living together in their house, and maybe, if we can afford it, building a smaller apartment for the then teens on their property would be the best idea. Completely separate houses, I don't think any of us sees as a solution.

But having enough space could maybe work, depending on my boundaries with the wife, of course. She and I both have this vision of a tribe. That is what our ideal polyamory is. There we do coincide, which I am happy about. But I'm unsure if she is the kind a person one could create a tribe with, or if that would be too heavy on me. We have talked about living together, and she does want to. She is okay with us three living together, but unwilling, for example, to give up a room she has for her crafts so that we would all fit in the house.

Also it is a big need of his for us to spend the holidays together, and live together. He doesn't bring this up with me too much, because he understands my boundaries. I just see him light up when we are together at theirs, and when he sees me and his wife get along.

 

[Etherealbeing]

It sounds like living with this couple would be a disaster. You'd be miserable in their dynamic.

Can you imagine a long-term committed future WITHOUT all three of you living together? As Tinwen suggested, maybe two residences near each other, where the husband can split his time with each of you.

Also, I think you should put effort into dating to try to find a second partner for yourself. Maybe you would end up with another serious partner with whom you can plan a future of living together, without a challenging metamour dynamic. Maybe you will one day split your time between a home with your other partner, and visiting your boyfriend and his wife in their home.

I just mean, polyamory has so many potentially possibilities and configurations, I would suggest you not let yourself get "locked in" to one particular dynamic or one particular vision for a future.

Thank you, MeeraReed. It does sound like it would be a disaster. And it does feel like it. I am happy and very well looked after by my partner, which is what keeps me here.

I can see a long-term committed future without the three of us living together, but that would entail me being more open to finding other partners. I do put in effort to meet others, and consider possibilities in poly, as I oscillate between wanting to be with him for now, and feeling it is wise and healthy to meet others.

I've been poly long enough that I know what I want. I am a bit of a boring relationship person. I want deep commitment, can't take things lightly. But I do consider new people, I talk to people, I go on dates even from time to time. I just believe a relationship would be best if it had time to grow into some clarity before adding new people into the mix. With kids I am even more careful about being intentional. So, I enjoy being able to have these conversations here to figure out a way to go. The younger, free-er me would've just tried and seen.

 

[Etherealbeing]

Do you not expect the hinge to prepare all this stuff since, he's the one you're actually dating, the one who is hosting you all here as his guests? Why would your metamor have to do it?

Why would all three have to live together in one home? Couldn't you have a nest, and your meta have a nest, and then the hinge split his time living with each one of you? It could be flats in the same building, a duplex, a house with a garage apartment, houses in the same neighborhood, or similar. The hinge could spend one week there and one week here.

Then you can live part time with the hinge, skip being the nanny/maid at your metamour's nest, and make space to date other people when you want to.

You wouldn't have to give up your life, or stress as much about legal protections, or losing your home. Your nest would be yours already.

Some people do polyamory because they want more commitments. They want them with more than one person.

It's ok for you to decide when you feel like dating others, and when you do not. Do not promise to close this relationship. If you take a break from dating others, it's because you want a break, and not because you can't date. When you feel like dating again, you date again.

What are the approximate ages of the kids? If they are all younger like elementary school, there is going to be a lot of hands-on parenting still. If they are more HS/college, the teens want to be on their own, with their friends, etc., so the parenting load eases up some.

Yes, that is not a good role. But it's the one that is offered time and time again. Maybe that's why I would like my meta to do something concrete, or abstract, to show me she too is going out of her way for us to have a relationships as more than metamours, which, from my point of view, is what she is asking of me. I am happy to be a support person and whatever to my friends and family, meta too, but not if it is not reciprocal.

Splitting my partner's time in half wouldn't do. He has kids with my meta, and she can't handle a lot of it alone. Also, none of us is into this kind of arrangement. I like to have many people in my life, but I am very community oriented, and would struggle having very separate lives with different partners.

Yes, I shouldn't promise to close. That is a good idea, and where I end up: being open to dating, while holding onto the truth that I am probably not ready yet, maybe will be at some point.

Kids are all middle-school-aged.

 

[Magdlyn]

To me, to be honest, it doesn't sound like this man is the right person for you. In my opinion, you are asking too much of him and yourself, to try and work around the struggles his wife has with her apparent mental/emotional issues. I don't think this guy is cut out for polyamory at this time.

He has young kids, preteens or young teens. Unlike what GG said, I think kids of all ages need a pretty big time and energy commitment. Just because teenagers can dress and feed themselves, doesn't mean they don't need a lot of care. They need rides to events, extracurricular activities, doctor or orthodontist appointments, haircuts. They need supervision as their bodies change, as their sexuality blossoms, as they begin to go to mixed-gender social events, to parties and dances, on dates. You need to help them choose and shop for appropriate clothing. Their school workload can be huge and they need assistance with that. They are messy. They need reminders about doing their chores and taking care of their hygiene (especially those stinky careless boys!). Etc.

Oh, and food! They eat a ton and someone has got to get nourishing food into them, and do those everlasting dishes. Maybe they are starting to do their own laundry, but they need reminders, probably.

Adding in that your metamour can't seem to deal with her own children for more than a couple hours at a time, your bf just doesn't seem to be that available.

Sure, the sex/kink sounds intense and enjoyable, but he can't even take the time to do aftercare, either leaving you a subspace mess, or neglecting his kids at home with his incapable wife.

It sounds like you're trying to be willing to care for the wife, as well as her kids and your own, just to get to be with your bf once a week or so. You're also willing to put your kids in a home with this mentally-ill woman just to get access to your bf?

(Also, having had kids myself, I don't know how it's even possible to do an intense sex/kink scene in a house with 4 or more middle-school aged kids. Even if the house is big, you can still get interrupted.)

When I was more actively dating, I eventually gave up on dating men who were in their 30s and 40s, with several kids, and at the most intense stage of building their careers. Sometimes they also had complicated custody arrangements with exes. They really didn't seem able to have the actual time to devote to a second adult, sexual, romantic, kinky, relationship. I found it better to date men with no kids, either single, or solo poly, or men whose kids were actually in college or older.

And I don't prefer to date people with untreated mental illness. If their other ("primary") partner has mental issues, they should also be in treatment and working at managing their symptoms. I don't like fully being someone's therapist. There is a line between being a friend, and allowing yourself to be used like that. I look askance at people who like to "white knight" others.

No one is perfect. I don't mean never date anyone because they will never measure up. But have standards, know your value and what you deserve. Don't settle.

 

[IndieSolo]

Ethereal Being, while reading your posts and replies here, I am struck by your frequent use of the term "all in." I think you may want to examine and perhaps deconstruct what that means to you. I say that because it seems that you consider "all in" to only mean living together 24/7. And with your current partner that also means as a blended family.

The way I see relationships, each person in a relationship is 100% responsible for their part in it. No such thing as 50-50. So, when there is mutual love and a commitment to being in a relationship together, how could it be anything other than "all in?"

For me, it's not necessarily the structure of when, where, and how often I see someone that determines whether I'm in that relationship completely or not. I can be "all in" with my love, commitment, and attention even if our time spent together is limited. If it starts to feel like less than 100%, then I know there are issues to be addressed or it's coming to an end.

So are you sure that living together and forming a tribe with your partner (whose wife would likely make it unbearable) is the only way you can be "all in?" Just something to ponder.

 

[GalaGirl]

But I don't see the relationship can grow unless we learn a way of being at theirs too. That's what I decided to do this summer, to try it out, see if we can be together the three of us. If my discomfort is a boundary speaking or something else. Or if we can create boundaries and ways to meet also my needs when we are at theirs.

If parallel is comfortable enough, why go over there? Why would that limit your relationship growth with him?

Or do you mean you want to grow a different meta relationship with her? I think it is what it is. She's a patient person. You don't have to become her free caregiver.

I see my partner carrying the load of it alone and I feel like helping.

Maybe appropriate support for him is letting him come over to your place so he gets caregiver breaks and respite?

That doesn't mean you have to go over there and do some of the caregiving for him. Not appropriate.

Yes, that is not a good role. But it's the one that is offered time and time again.

Doesn't mean you accept it. It's ok to not do it any more because you already see it is not reciprocal. Don't have to be rude or anything. You just hold your personal boundary. If that gets exhausting? Stop going over there to where she is. You tried the experiment over summer and learned "No. Don't want to hang out together more "

You don't hate her or anything. You two just don't click.

That's ok.

Splitting my partner's time in half wouldn't do. He has kids with my meta, and she can't handle a lot of it alone.

Then you let go of the desire to live together part time til the kids are older. MS is still young. Late HS and college they are doing more of their own things and drive themselves to activities. Once they are adults? Moved out? Then part time living together maybe becomes possible because she doesn't have to handle kids any more.

Def don't promise to close. You might not want to date other people now, but you might later on. Keep your own nest.

Maybe you want to look over the relationship menu. See what's actually doable at this time, what might be on the table later when kids are grown, and what is NEVER on the table? Do it yourself, then maybe do it with him and see what aligns.

https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/pwkdxp/v3_relationship_components_menu_last_update_for

GG

 

[Etherealbeing]

To me, to be honest, it doesn't sound like this man is the right person for you. In my opinion, you are asking too much of him and yourself, to try and work around the struggles his wife has with her apparent mental/emotional issues. I don't think this guy is cut out for polyamory at this time.

He has young kids, preteens or young teens. Unlike what GG said, I think kids of all ages need a pretty big time and energy commitment. Just because teenagers can dress and feed themselves, doesn't mean they don't need a lot of care. They need rides to events, extracurricular activities, doctor or orthodontist appointments, haircuts. They need supervision as their bodies change, as their sexuality blossoms, as they begin to go to mixed-gender social events, to parties and dances, on dates. You need to help them choose and shop for appropriate clothing. Their school workload can be huge and they need assistance with that. They are messy. They need reminders about doing their chores and taking care of their hygiene (especially those stinky careless boys!). Etc.

Add in that your metamour can't seem to deal with her own children for more than a couple hours at a time, your bf just doesn't seem to be that available.

Sure, the sex/kink sounds intense and enjoyable, but he can't even take the time to do aftercare, either leaving you a subspace mess, or neglecting his kids at home with his incapable wife.

It sounds like you're trying to be willing to care for the wife, as well as her kids and your own, just to get to be with your bf once a week or so. You're also willing to put your kids in a home with this mentally-ill woman just to get access to your bf?

(Also, having had kids myself, I don't know how it's even possible to do an intense sex/kink scene in a house with 4 or more middle-school aged kids. Even if the house is big, you can still get interrupted.)

When I was more actively dating, I eventually gave up on dating men who were in their 30s and 40s, with several kids, and at the most intense stage of building their careers. Sometimes they also had complicated custody arrangements with exes. They really didn't seem able to have the actual time to devote to a second adult, sexual, romantic, kinky, relationship. I found it better to date men with no kids, either single, or solo poly, or men whose kids were actually in college or older.

And I don't prefer to date people with untreated mental illness. If their other ("primary") partner has mental issues, they should also be in treatment and working at managing their symptoms. I don't like fully being someone's therapist. There is a line between being a friend, and allowing yourself to be used like that. I look askance at people who like to "white knight" others.

No one is perfect. I don't mean never date anyone because they will never measure up. But have standards, know your value and what you deserve. Don't settle.

My thoughts exactly on some moments. He is too busy. Even though the situation is not quite as bad as it may sound. With kids 24/7 I don't think many relationships are possible (or easy) unless living in the same household and getting along well. Or would be if a less time consuming relationship would be okay. And still, specially alone time is rare and will most likely create conflict or the relationships will stay small out of lack of time. That is also why I find it difficult to have many partners at the moment. Even though I live alone, with the kids I feel my capacity is almost full already with this relationship. Just to be clear though, he does come to my place to sleep once a week, and wife can cope and is learning to cope with this. We also have a weekly meeting just the two of us when we go to this hobby of ours. Also easier for wife as it is regular. He takes me to lunch often on weekdays. Then on weekends if I have kid free time we might have a date night, or he might come to my place with the kids or we go to theirs. Not every weekend offcourse, but we do see each other quite a lot. What worries me is not knowing if the relationship can grow, and that's what we are figuring out now.

Yes, kinky time is difficult to arrange with kids. And we don't do it if the kids are at home. So, it's not only relationship dynamics, but the fact that we both have kids that challenge this. Maybe there are too many challenges though. Not taking proper care of aftercare did leave me wondering if he cares at all or is actually just wanting to use me. We did talk on the phone during those times, and he is always present that way. Through these experiences I ended up finding out better my aftercare needs. But had to make very clear boundaries towards him as well. Having to have to be so clear about something that should be clear from the first time it's said did break my trust some. I see he needs and finding boundaries with wife in order to organize time for us. But it doesn't feel right to me either if that means the kids are not well cared for because of that. I have had an experience of being with a couple with kids before (I had kids too). In that sitation having three adults created a lot more opportunities for alone time, kinky time, whatever, as there were more of us and two homes. Maybe I hoped we would be able to do that here.

Yep, I do trust the feeling in my body and mind that comes after spending time with meta. Not interested in being anyones saviour, allthough I do believe in support when it's fair. And yes, she should get help. I don't think for a second I could change her, or their dynamic. That's why I am considering if living together I would be willing to carry the load with my partner while she does her thing. But it doesn't seem like that is an option really. And bringing the kids to live with her? It's not like she is completely nuts. But yes, I do think about if it would be a good idea.

Being in this situation does make me grateful though, for my own life. I think about having made myself a life, a home, cut off relationships that wore me down, do I really want to take on an other adult to babysit? I know I could find an other partner/s who are able to carry themselves, don't need an maid or a therapist. But it feels cold. It's not like emotions listen to sense. I care about my partner, they have helped me through a lot and I feel better with them in my life. Something will have to happen though. Maybe grieve the loss of a shared future and allow the relationship to be what it can now, maybe date other people once my heart is ready for it.