sifting through the ashes

Bugger bugger bugger

Somewhere along the way I miscommunicated again (and have not yet fixed the misinterpretation)... Had a talk with K last night... he's under the impression that I am not going to send the letter to T...
I said that I may not need to... it's like I keep hoping that the more K proves how much he loves me, i think my feelings for T will resolve and go away... I have got to get it through my head that the truth in my heart is the damn truth and to stop fighting it...
It's not that I don't want this - I do, I want it so much I could burst with it... but it would be so much simpler if I didn't feel the way I do for T.

Essentially, K seems to be under the impression, that while I have been honest with him, that I will ignore it, how I feel. He doesn't understand that by acknowledging it all, by revealing it to him.. I have ended up with even more drive to get this to work... That the only way I will be able to put this away from me is if T will have nothing to do with it... and even then I will grieve for this wonderful thing lost - that I never had to begin with...

Am i confusing enough yet?

Short end of it is - that I need to have another talk, that we need to keep talking, I need to stop fart-arsing about and send the letter on to T... I also need to make clear that my relationship with T, is mine - he doesn't get to say whether we can be friends or not - yes they have let their friendship explode... but... I can't fix that, and I didn't damage it - contribute maybe, but, they are the ones who let it die - not me. Boundaries are another matter - sexual side of things is off the table by MY choice for now anyway - I have too much going on - not to mention I will be in another country again soon... As for how deep the friendship goes... regardless of whethr we are talking or not - it is one of the deepest friendships I have known... and to take that away from me... to pander to his insecurities is just damn rude...

Yes, I agreed that if he were to get involved with another woman - I would feel threatened... I'm sorry but he doesn't get the concept of poly so how exactly does he think I would feel secure? Am I supposed to answer honestly to a direct question or am I supposed to put a whole pile of conjecture in there... growlies. I also didn't get the opportunity to point out that that would be my baggage and that I would work through it...

aaaaargh... help please... I don't know where to direct the discussion we have next and how to start it off...
 
I see a number of problems here:

K doesn't understand poly and you are pushing for a poly relationship

K & T are FORMER friends. K will see this as a competition (T might also). Basically you have instigated a pissing match where no one can win.

You may have to approach this from the mono standpoint (since K doesn't get poly). T is your friend. If you plan to keep your relationship with K, it can't move beyond that until he can accept being in a poly relationship.

You have a lot of stuff going on - take a step back and slow down. Not everything will be solved at once. Take one step at a time and expect to slip down a few and have to climb back up the same steps again.
 
SNeacail said:
T is your friend. If you plan to keep your relationship with K, it can't move beyond that until he can accept being in a poly relationship.

You have a lot of stuff going on - take a step back and slow down. Not everything will be solved at once. Take one step at a time and expect to slip down a few and have to climb back up the same steps again.
Click to expand...

The problem is that right now K wants to put his head in the sand, not even have me communicate with T...

I NEED to try and fix the FRIENDSHIP I had with T... everything else can wait... but, the problem is K is now insecure and struggling with the mere concept of T being involved anywhere in our lives...
I RESENT that - I stuffed up, I did not acknowledge the true depth of my feelings while they were developing - even when K pointed out concerns... even when T pointed out concerns... I am headstrong, wilful and prideful and damn do I make a mess of things... but... it's MY friendship and I WANT to fix it - if he doesn't want to fix his relationship with T that's up to him... disappointing but thats his concern...

I don't know how to explain that I NEED to try and fix this, if I can't then thats fine... but I NEED to TRY...

I have no problem with stepping up and slipping back and doing it all again - what I have a problem with is doing absolutely NOTHING...
 
K and I currently have a tacit understanding that I do not communicate with T without his go-ahead, since I sent the bday message without his prior knowledge...

So I can't ask T what he thinks as K doesn't want anything to do with him, and doesn't know if he EVER will...

This is simply not acceptable to me - if it was a definitive time, maybe...

I feel as though I am being not genuine... um.... not behaving with integrity as K has read my letter - which was written to BOTH of them, while T has not... I sent the letter to K first as I wanted to deal with his reaction and help him feel more secure, BEFORE I went ahead and sent it on to T... however I did not foresee K shutting down completely... I will not send the letter without his ok but at the same time I am not happy with not sending it... I need for both K and T to be aware of my core feelings... regardless of what the reaction or fallout is, regardless of where we all move towards from there - I NEED the integrity of having been honest to both of them.

Does that make sense?
 
*Rueful snigger*

LOL thanks RP... you and Mono are absolutely AWESOME on here you know - other s too but you two I personally have found the most helpful and inspirational... to me personally... just reading your posts and your story have helped me to evolve my own ideas and thoughts in a slightly less sledgehammerish way :p

I will definitely keep at it, I just hope that K will be able to stretch a little soon... treading water just doesn't suit my nature.
 
FlameKat said:
just reading your posts and your story have helped me to evolve my own ideas and thoughts in a slightly less sledgehammerish way :p
Click to expand...

There is a reason that sledgehammers are reserved for demolition:p. Ever try to bend a piece of wood? It is a sloooow process that can take days and it may require extra encouragement, such as steam, water, clamps, etc. making minor adjustments as you go. Bend it too fast and it will break and splinter.
 
SNeacail said:
There is a reason that sledgehammers are reserved for demolition:p. Ever try to bend a piece of wood? It is a sloooow process that can take days and it may require extra encouragement, such as steam, water, clamps, etc. making minor adjustments as you go. Bend it too fast and it will break and splinter.
Click to expand...

you are so wise... your posts help me so...


Flamekat.. all I gots for you darling are hugs... I think if B told me to cut all contact with J I would be very very angry... and sad.... and Yet I would get it... on so many levels...

right now I hurt for both of us struggling to make the men we love understand that we have enough love to go around....
 
We had another chat yesterday, didn't move forward on anything I have been whinging about in my last few posts... didn't mention anything along those lines at all.

K brought the subject up and I just let him get it out, I had him read a little of the stuff on xeromag, he wasn't much impressed.

i am hoping to have the guts tonight to sit down and really go through the xeromag stuff, and also this forum (thats where the guts come in - letting him read these posts... sigh... i am finding it very difficult to let him simply because of baggage from my ex - when I separated from him - he hacked all my email/facebook/msn accounts and posed as me, threatened my friends etc - now I have no fears of that with K but I am finding it hard to let him into my internalisations as a result...being this open shouldn't be this big of a deal to me, I know we are committed to working through this together so what the hell am I afraid of???)

anyway, hopefully he will sign up and start talking on here to get help with the things he is feeling... those of you who are mono and willing to chat to him if he does sign up please welcome him if/when he does - or maybe let me know who you are so I can nudge him in your direction?
 
Hi Flamecat- hope that he decides to start looking at some of the issues that are coming up... denial is rather painful for those who are trying to be aware and make changes...

Mono is a great source of support for a lot of mono folks. I can't speak for him, but I would certainly be willing to talk to him as I have some grasp on what goes on in a mono/poly relationship having talked about it for the last two years almost daily... :cool:

Anyway, if I can help, I will give it a shot. It would be best if he did a bit of a search on here first though.
 
FlameKat said:
those of you who are mono and willing to chat to him if he does sign up please welcome him if/when he does - or maybe let me know who you are so I can nudge him in your direction?
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I'm always available on here or in PM. I'll offer whatever support I can from my perspective if it is relevant to what he is feeling....which would be for him to decide :)
 
Thanks guys, I will be sure to let him know...

I am having the letter sending talk with him (*shamed head - va text...) we have too much stuff to do in the evenings to really chat about this stuff, I only have a few weeks left before I am gone for another year and I hate using up our precious time together with hurt...

sigh... discussing the possibility of T starting to communicate again... he wants there to be no contact between T and myself unless he is involved... not sure exactly what he is meaning by that... and feeling rather untrusted and controlled by that idea...

what a mess...
 
FlameKat said:
Thanks guys, I will be sure to let him know...

I am having the letter sending talk with him (*shamed head - va text...) we have too much stuff to do in the evenings to really chat about this stuff, I only have a few weeks left before I am gone for another year and I hate using up our precious time together with hurt...

sigh... discussing the possibility of T starting to communicate again... he wants there to be no contact between T and myself unless he is involved... not sure exactly what he is meaning by that... and feeling rather untrusted and controlled by that idea...

what a mess...
Click to expand...

I don't think I would be comfortable having all my contact with someone monitored.....
 
Just sent the letter to T

Sorted out the contact thingy - he wants me to be able to talk to him about anything we (me and T) discuss... this was an issue before as T was disclosing some personal issues that he was having to me, but not to K, and I felt a need to respect his personal boundaries - however that became a problem when I had difficulty remembering which issues were ok to talk about and which weren't (I also suffer short term memory loss) and resolved my dilemna by making any personal topics offlimits.

because of that - I would have made that a clear consideration anyway - that i be able to talk to either of them about whatever I want...whether personal to themselves or not... if I am needing to talk about it then I should be able to do so with the people closest to me that I trust...

This is now a comfort level thing for me - as I mentioned before - I have a real need for my private communication to be private... I shouldn't have to discuss it... however I see the sense in being this open... it is just hard for me to actally be that open in my communications... whereas I am fine in person (LOL sometimes too fine with way too much info :D) is a new lesson for me to learn...
 
T finally responded to the letter...

"Unfortunately I know that I cannot have the type of relationship you dream of nor even a friendship with boundaries as we are well past that..."

I am gutted.

The pain I have caused everyone that I love overwhelms me. The loss of such a deep friendship... I am not even feeling the true depth of that pain yet.

K said that he believes we might be coming to an end, he is starting to think he was meant to be the 'conduit' for me to meet T, that I am meant to be with T, not him.

The sheer pain of those words... I have felt like a deer in the headlights ever since he uttered them, despite that he reassured me he would be sticking by me through anything.

I am completely lost right now... words of advice are really really welcome right now...
 
Oh flamekat, I'm so sorry *hugs*

Maybe a little bit of time and patience and keeping things light will help him process and find it in his heart to be friends...?
 
redpepper said:
Oh flamekat, I'm so sorry *hugs*

Maybe a little bit of time and patience and keeping things light will help him process and find it in his heart to be friends...?
Click to expand...

I so very much hope so...

It's the way he worded it that hurts me so... "as we are well past that", I cannot help but be severely hurt that it is easier for him to walk away from our connection, from the love we share... than to try and keep trying to find a balance we can all live with.
 
That does hurt... but perhaps because you are past all that he will decide to make an effort after regrouping...

Maybe giving it all a break until after the holiday season will help. I don't know about you but I find it hard to deal with stuff at this time of year. It's a hard time yet a wonderful time for so many... is it possible to ask if you can just enjoy being friends until then? and talk about it if he wants then?
 
I am in the last week of my stay here in Canada (I leave on Friday). It would hurt K so much for me to be dwelling on the loss of T. He is somewhat relieved by T's response - and knows and has admitted how very selfish that is of him... I don't think it's selfish, at least - not if he stops me from communicating or tries to make me feel guilty for being upset...

He (K) has said that he feels the matter is at an end, that T has been quite clear, and that if I push further he (K) would be incredibly hurt.

For me it is still unclear, I want to know does T mean never, ever or maybe after some time has passed we can look things over and see how we stand?

K thinks I will keep pushing until I get the answer I want - that T will be willing to try.

And I can't say that he is wrong... I don't think so - but maybe he is right about me... I am so very stubborn when things feel right. And a relationship with T feels SO right. at least the idea of it does...

How do I answer my questions? without causing more hurt to everyone? is it even possible or am I being incredibly selfish?
 
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