I'm in over my head

F

Freetime

New member
So here I am, age 47, married 20 yrs and helping my wife find a boyfriend. Why? Well, it's simple, really. She wants one, and as I'm her husband and friend, not her owner, I am doing what I can. However, I'm pretty certain this is it for our marriage. The old adage of "If you love something, set it free," is entirely appropriate here. But free for her and free for me are not the same thing.

My wife has found someone (age 34), who fits the bill. She will be meeting with him tonight, to possibly have sex and discuss having an ongoing relationship.

She's excited about him, describes him as intelligent, sexy, interesting. She is in a near-constant state of sexual arousal, which I've enjoyed immensely. But I am aware that she's not feeling this for me, but for another man. And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is the rub. Her emotional excitement, willingness to experiment, and joyfulness, are focused on and caused by someone other then me. I'm glad for her, happy to see her like this, but damn near close to tears that it is not for me.

If I asked her to not go further, she would stop. I know this. But I do not want to be the guy who stopped her from living the life she wants to live. It would only end the marriage on a bad note, anyway, so it's time.

I'm trying to find a way to accept this poly lifestyle, but am struggling, as you can see. There are so many things she doesn't see, and so many things I do.

Your help and advice would be appreciated.
 
I feel for you man, I really do. I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. Talking helps a lot. Try and talk through why you are feeling the way you do. If you talk enough, you start getting down through the layers, and hopefully to the base reason.

I wish I had a good fix for you, but I'm still feeling a lot of the same things you are. A lot of what she is feeling is called New Relationship Energy (NRE). It's a hard stage to go through, because it's someone else who is making her happy. For Jen and me, it brought a very deep level of communication, and we have been very close since then.

Have you met the guy yet? I would suggest maybe meeting him first before they start a relationship. That way, at least you will know who he is, and everything.
 
Freetime said:
And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is the rub. Her emotional excitement, willingness to experiment and joyfulness is focused on someone other then me. I'm glad for her, but damn near close to tears that it is no longer for me.
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When my boyfriend (of 15 years) and I had our first brush with polyamory, the result was opposite to what most folks would expect. He and I became closer. And I mean more intimate, more loving, more joyful... with one another. He had fallen in love with another guy. I let him know that that was a Good Thing, and that I wasn't afraid of it at all. It was something I welcomed. That relationship was brief, as was my own first brush, but we learned and grew in it.

What I don't know is why this sort of magic isn't happening with you and your gal. Why isn't the crocus blooming in all of the spring hearts involved here? The only way to begin to examine that question is to do so. More of the story needs telling.

That being said, a lot of us mere humans get very excited about NOVELTY. We're perhaps wired for it -- I don't know. I'm the sort of guy who doesn't have the same drink each day, sitting in the same chair in the same cafe. I'd die of boredom! Give me a drink I've never had before, and if it's tasty, I'll light up. I'll get excited. The same goes for new kisses. I love them. I'm human.

Some people, though, do happily walk into the same cafe every morning and they are automatically brought their familiar, routine cappuccino. They sit in the same chair and face the same direction and talk with the same people, and they're HAPPY about it.

Me, I need BOTH. I need routine, the comfort and security of the familiar, all of that. My partner Kevin is ALWAYS there for (and usually physically with) me. It's not always terribly exciting, since there isn't a lot of novelty, but I love him.

On the other hand, the last time I had a pretty exciting time with another guy, that guy wasn't there for me. He only seemed to be there for a while, long enough that I got more attached than was good for me. Kevin was there for me through those tears. He was there.
 
Is your wife aware that you think your marriage is over? You might want to tell her that. I would be really upset if my husband kept that from me, if I didn't feel that way. I would want to know how to make him believe it isn't, and then do those things.

This is what I did when I met my boyfriend. My husband was very honest about how he felt. I did everything I could to make sure he knew I loved him.

It's a two-way thing, not one way. If you are determined that she be happy, do you not think she would want that for you? Start setting up your boundaries with her. Negotiate. She doesn't get to have it all her way. You are still married. If she really is polyamorous (loves more than one person), she loves you just as much as she always has. Don't set her up with your assumptions. That's not fair. Tell her and talk it all through.
 
redpepper said:
Is she aware that you think your marriage is over? You might want to tell her that. I would be really u set if my husband kept that from me because I don't feel that way. I would want to know how to make him believe it isn't and then do those things. It's a two-way thing. If you are determined she be happy, do you not think she would want that for you? Negotiate. She doesn't get to have it all her way. If she really is polyamorous, she loves you just as much as she always has. Don't set her up with your assumptions. Talk it through.
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Excellent points and fair questions. No, she does not. I've just come to that realization.

I have had time to look at this from a different perspective and believe this is happening because of a number of factors:

1) I'm not what she needs or wants in a partner for her to feel fulfilled. She is afraid to discuss her unhappiness with the current state of our relationship.

2) Distance and emotional dishonesty on my part kept me willfully ignorant of what was happening. Okay... that's not true. I could see and feel the spiritual distance, but didn't know what to do to address it. I've lived a very small life in the last couple of years because of a back injury, but mostly because of my uneasiness with how things stood between us. This has only made the low-level dissatisfaction worse for her, and for us.

3) To be truly polyamorous, both parties must agree to be in this, but that agreement must come without fear of loss or rejection if the other says "No thank you." And that is where I am, right now. I've agreed and gone along with it because I instinctively knew the real reason for this taking place.

4) We all want to be with someone who we can be proud of, someone we can talk about with our friends and family and say: "Wow! look at what they did or have accomplished," and I have failed in that. Completely my fault. My lack of direction and living in fear of loss or failure have created this perfect-storm moment. When we met, I was a free spirit, afraid of nothing, willing to try just about anything. But over the years I have become... lost and forgotten, with little idea of how to get that man back. My wife simply wants that feeling and opportunity again, as any of us would. So the least I can do to try to end this on a high note for her. I hope her date tonight rocks her world, but I have no illusions as to the final outcome. Her "date" is what I used to be, younger and still building an interesting life.

5) We hide the real reasons for this behind the story of: "Trying something new, shared adventure, naughty, exciting," when what it really is, is a way of breaking up without having to address the true problem(s). My wife is a loving strong-willed person, but she has just as much difficulty discussing or addressing issues that may hurt the other, in this case, me. Her dissatisfaction has been evident for some time, but neither of us has wanted to dive in and deal. Ya know?

I'm still open... a wee bit, that this may be a good thing for both of us. But until the other stuff is sorted out, this haze of uncertainty and fear remains.

I appreciate your candor and willingness to help out. Your questions and opinions give me a lot to think about and look at. if you think I'm off course here, by all means, let me know.
 
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Freetime,

While it could be true that the time for parting is near, I think you'd be doing yourself and her a disservice if you both didn't take some significant risks in exposing yourselves to one another by talking about all the stuff you haven't talked about. You may find that there is much more love between you than either of you realize. Find out!
 
Freetime said:
My wife has found someone (age 34), who fits the bill, and will be meeting with him tonight to possibly have sex, and discuss having an ongoing relationship.
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Why "possibly have sex?" Why not just have coffee together first? If you think this will hurt your marriage so much, why move so fast? Do you want to explore polyamory or swinging? If it's polyamory, you can slow down a little. She doesn't need to jump right into balling a strange guy!

Freetime, I suggest you look for posts and threads by a member here called Vodkafan. He is monogamous, and his wife is polyamorous and has another male partner. You will see how they have made poly work for them really well. In the "Struggling Mono" thread, Vodkafan said, "The fact is that I did this because my wife is worth sharing. I would not do it for anyone else."
 
nycindie said:
Why "possibly have sex?" Why not just have coffee together first? If you think this will hurt your marriage so much, why move so fast? Do you want to explore polyamory or swinging? If it's polyamory, you can slow down a little. She doesn't need to jump right into balling a strange guy!

I suggest you look for posts and threads by a member here called Vodkafan. He is monogamous and his wife is polyamorous and has another male partner. You will see how they have made poly work for them. Vodkafan said, "The fact is that I did this because my wife is worth sharing. I would not do it for anyone else."
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Funny you should mention the swinging thing. When this first got started it, was around the fantasy of a threesome, trying something new and adventurous. However, it soon came about that my wife had a different idea-- a long-term relationship with another man. Wee bit of a difference there, I'd say.

Why have sex? Well, that's not a for-sure thing, but if the opportunity arises, hey, why not? Once again, I'm the husband, not the owner. Her choices are hers.

I will indeed read Vodkafan's posts. I absolutely agree with him, my wife is worth it. I just don't like it.

Question: do I bring up my feelings before or after her date? If I did so beforehand, it would seem as if I were trying to control her, stop her from doing what she wants.

Truthfully, I'm so emotionally challenged right now, I have no idea what to do.
 
Before!

Look, it's obvious you're a nice guy and trying to be as giving as possible, but there's a guideline in poly to go as slowly as the person who is most uncomfortable needs. It's not a rule, but you'll see lots of reference to it in these threads. It's not about controlling her; it's about mutual respect. She can slow it down as a way to respect your discomfort. Some people need to be okay with their spouse just holding hands with someone else first. That guy's (or another's) penis will still be there when the two of you have gotten more comfortable with the whole idea. Why put up with something that has you so upset, and then wait until afterward to tell her?

You said in your first post in this thread that you are happy to see her happy, but "damn near close to tears that it is no longer for me." The fact that you think it is either another man or you that would make her happy, and not having two people who could potentially make her happy equally, tells me you have some issues to resolve before diving in. Poly makes it possible to love and be satisfied with more than one person, not choosing one at the expense of the other!

Unless you two are just going after sex, swinging, with no emotions involved, slow down! There's nothing wrong with casual sex, in my opinion, but it doesn't seem like you're ready for inviting that as an element in your marriage yet. Polyamory requires thought and respectfulness for all involved, not just deferring or submitting to one person's will in the relationship. You're not her owner, but you are her partner!

Why not invite her here to post, as well? It would be good to get both sides here.
 
What she said. Good words.
 
Freetime said:
Distance and emotional dishonesty on my part kept me willfully ignorant of what was happening. I could see and feel the spiritual distance, but didn't know what to do to address it. I've lived a very small life in the last couple of years because of a back injury, but mostly because of my uneasiness with how things stood between us. This has only made the low level dissatisfaction worse for her, for us. My lack of direction, and living in fear of loss or failure have created this perfect-storm moment. When we met I was a free spirit, afraid of nothing, willing to try just about anything. But over the years I have become lost, with little idea of how to get that man back. My wife simply wants that feeling and opportunity again. The least that I can do to try to end this on a high note for her. I hope her date tonight rocks her world, but I have no illusions as to the final outcome. Her "date" is what I used to be, younger and still building an interesting life.
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You've got some work to do. Start talking. Tell her just what you said here. You have been scared. You don't know how to approach your disconnect, all that. Remember, she loved who you were when you met and loves who you have become. This man is a representation of what you were, but you are the lovable result of who you once were. That is cherished by her. Talk to her before she goes out.
 
Hi Freetime,

You are feeling pretty low right now. I can tell. I felt pretty hopeless at the beginning too. But now we are 8 months in, and my marriage is better than ever. I am not delusional. It really is better.

My wife has told me many times that she wants to grow old with me. She never wants us to split up. I feel more valued than ever before. We both feel the marriage is alive and secure, so much so that I have a hard time finding something to write about on here lately.

The first two months were a bitch, but we kept on working at it and removing every obstacle, one by one.

Don't give up.
 
OK...

So I did what you suggested. I went and talked to her at length about how I feel and what I thought this was all about-- dissatisfaction with me, her excitement about a younger man, etc. I told her, without censoring or pretending to like this idea, exactly how I felt and of my fear of loss. We had one of the best nights we've had in years. We went on a date and continued to talk well into the night.

The truth is, I was, and have been, flat-out wrong. I've been projecting my own fears onto her and this situation without actually talking to her. I'm feeling pretty damn dumb right now. She listened and understood the concerns I brought forward, and we're working together to overcome the things that currently exist and get in the way of this experience. My reaction was just flat-out panic, panic based on old tapes of life experience and past relationships, where lying and betrayal were the norm. I have stuff to work on, it seems.

I tend to mind my own business and keep my own counsel, but it's clear I need to start talking about what's really going on (with her) and stop acting like a... frightened, pissed-off child.

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the counsel and direction from you folks here. I'm going to hang around, if that's okay, and continue to learn and study how this works. My wife is now aware that I'm posting here about this, and may, in fact, stop by.

NYCindie, Redpepper, River, Beodude, Vodkafan, thanks for taking the time to offer both advice and a gentle boot to the ass to get talking about this. What a difference a day makes.

Later folks,
Freetime

P.S. Her dated never happened. We went out instead.
 
Freetime said:
I went and talked to her at length about how I feel and what I thought this was all about, dissatisfaction with me, her excitement of a younger man, etc. I talked about how I felt and of my fear of loss. We had one of the best nights we've had in years. We continued to talk well into the night. The truth is I was, and have been, wrong. I've been projecting my own fears onto her and this situation, without actually talking to her. I'm feeling pretty damn dumb right now, She listened and understood the concerns I brought forward. We're working together to overcome the things that currently exist and get in the way of this experience. My reaction was just panic, based on old tapes of life experience and past relationships, where lying and betrayal were the norm. I have stuff to work on.
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And people wonder why we keep harping on communication!

Seriously, this is awesome stuff. I've run into this several times, with my wife, lovers, lifelong friends, and of course, I've done it myself. It's so easy to get oneself spun up on imaginary conversations, to the point of making the actual conversation moot.

The real conversation is never moot! They're not always fun, or smooth. But mine have always provided a better result in the end than leaving things up to speculation.
Freetime said:
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the counsel and direction from those here. I'm going to hang around, and continue to learn and study how this works. My wife is now aware that I'm posting here about this, and may stop by.
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Totally okay. Always good to see another homeboy in the corral. Giddy up.

Freetime said:
Thanks for taking the time to stop by and offer both advice, and a gentle boot to the ass to get talking about this. What a difference a day makes.
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They rawk, don't they?
 
Welcome, Freetime.

I can really relate to a lot of your situation. My husband is a lot like you. He has had so many of the same feelings. One thing we are working on is the co-dependent nature of our relationship, and how unhealthy it had become. My husband has also narrowed his life down over the years. He counted on me, very much, to be the social director and the one growing and learning, while he just went to work and came home. We realize now that he needs to work on HIMSELF.

I'm starting to wonder if my relationship with another man came from a fear of being swallowed up by my husband's neediness. He is now working on his own life and becoming more of a fully-alive human being. We are still living in the same house and actually sharing a bed, but we are "separated" in the sense that we are both free (and encouraged!) to develop outside relationships. I believe it is the non-sexual, platonic relationships that will develop for both of us that will make the biggest difference.

Ironically enough, my boyfriend has really taken a lower priority for me now that I am free to do as I please. I am really guarding myself from jumping into yet another co-dependent relationship. It is very empowering! He has become more of a teacher, for me, than just a wild romantic infatuation. Our friendship has deepened. I realize it is not just about sexual attraction; it is also about the things in him that I admire that I want to develop in myself. Wow -- who knew?

While I hate the old cliche, "mid-life crisis," my husband thinks that women go through a big shift in their 40s. I know I am particularly working on my issues of independence and balance. I had children young (I have 6) and I feel like I've never had time just for ME. So he is very understanding.

It sounds like you are also a very understanding, caring man who loves his wife very much. Do her a favor and give her the BEST gift you could ever, ever give her -- the BEST you, the REAL you. Find him again! It's a great place to put your efforts, after working on a troubled marriage and all the stress that comes along with that. She may see you growing and changing, and become curious and admiring -- BUT, that is only a by-product. :) Good luck. I'm rooting for you.
 
This is good news, Freetime. I am very glad. I am happy that you will be sticking around. Although everybody's experience is slightly different, a lot of the same issues come up. We have all been through similar things.

You will have up days and down days, but I can tell you that you will never be bored.

From a strictly male point of view, I can identify with what you and Carma said about getting stuck in that masculine rut of going to work and coming home. Gender roles can be a ruthless tyranny. My wife was stuck at home bringing up the kids. It was sucking all the life out of us. We made various attempts to break out of this pattern, without success.

By the way, I also have a back injury. I am in a constant low level of pain, which can get worse if I don't exercise and take care of myself. I refuse to let that dictate what I do or how I live my life, though.
 
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Well, this is different

Day 2? 3? I sort of lost the timeline, it seems. In any event, the discussion continues.

I have a question. I have no issues and/or feelings of fear, loss with the sexual side of things, but as soon as I start seeing this as another relationship, I start getting bent. I'm trying to process this, but lack the poly-centric language/experience to accurately describe what I mean.

Sex with another man? Okay. Two thumbs up. But another man caring for and holding my wife? Not so much. Yes, I want her to be with someone who actually likes and appreciates her, but can't they just... I dunno, fuck and then go for coffee? This emotional work is complicated ground. I could use some direction here. Thanks.

We went on another date yesterday, and had a mind-blowing time that went into the afternoon and late into the night.

My wife has said she's perfectly all right with my getting a girlfriend. No, I'm not making that up. That's what she said. I said I already had one. Her. Am I missing something here?
 
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vodkafan said:
From a strictly male point of view, I can identify with what you said and Carma said about getting stuck in that masculine rut of going to work and coming home. Gender roles can be a ruthless tyranny. My wife was stuck at home bringing up the kids. It was sucking all the life out of us. We made various attempts to break out of this pattern without success.

By the way, I also have a back injury. I am in a constant low level of pain, which can get worse if I don't exercise and take care of myself. I refuse to let that dictate what I do or how I live my life, though.
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About 10 years ago, my wife was given some possibly life-altering news about her health. At that time, I panicked, gave up my career and stayed home with her while she built her business. I worked for her and her company. (Not really, but it sounds better then saying I just hung around hoping she didn't die.)

The back injury just added insult to injury, in that it stopped me from doing many of the things I loved to do such as hike, excursion walking, martial arts, combative shooting, etc.

I started spending a lot of money on in-house distractions (models, toys, books) and as you can see, here we are today. I used to draw, for hours and hours. I was never a pro artist, but I loved drawing. And yet, I gave that up too, at about the same time as I got married. Hmm... issues.

I'm a very outgoing funny human being, but you'd not know it by looking at how I've lived. Time to change that, it seems.
 
Freetime said:
I have no issues and or feelings of fear, loss with the sexual side of things, but as soon as i start seeing this as another relationship, I start getting bent. I'm trying to process this, but lack the poly-centric language experience to accurately discribe what I mean.

Sex? OK! Another man caring for and holding my wife? Not so much. I want her to be with someone who actually likes and appreciates her. but can't they just.... fuck and then go for coffee? This emotional work is complicated.
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Straight through the stop sign, and then left at the mall until you see a gas station. If only it were that simple, eh?

It's interesting, since with most men it's the sexual aspect that takes a long time to work through, rather than the emotional stuff.

Right now, the biggest obstacle I foresee in my wife ever finding a bf would be finding one that legitimately wanted that emotional connection, and wasn't just using her for sex. Knowing how most guys are, I could see myself having a hard time trusting that they'd actually want to care about her the way I do.

So what is it about an emotional connection between your wife and another man that is causing your consternation? You're right that it's a complicated process, but for me it's the main defining characteristic of polyamory, in relation to other forms of non-monogamy, such as swinging.

Are you worried that--
She'll love him more?
They'll have some feeling between them that you don't?
They'll have their own pet names?
With the amount of personal sacrifice you've made in the past, she'll want him to comfort and support her when things are bad, instead of you?

I'm just throwing possibilities out there, but really, this is internal-processing time, where you need to really look at what your feelings are about this, and why. Then dig deep into that, to find the root of where it's coming from. Ask yourself the hard questions, and be honest to yourself with the answers.

Freetime said:
We went on another date yesterday, and had a mind blowing-time that went into the afternoon and late into the night.
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Rock on.

Freetime said:
My wife has said she's perfectly alright with my getting a girlfriend. I said I already had one. Her. Am I missing something here?
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I used to refer to my wife as my other ex-gf, because as soon as she said "I do," she wasn't really my gf anymore, was she? She became my wife. But that's all just semantics.

Why would you find this surprising? If she's looking expand her heart to include other people, and is deriving some happiness and satisfaction from that, why would she not want her husband to have the same opportunity?

Are you actually opposed to the prospect? Do you not believe her?

I don't know about missing something, but if you're worried about the classic wife 'opposite day' thing, I don't think that'd be the case. She'll at least think she's perfectly okay with it. That doesn't mean that she might not find her own issues and processing to work through, if you take her up on the offer, and also depending on what kind of hussy you bring home. It's kinda like bringing home a girl to meet Mom, but different, because it's harder to throw a temper tantrum and say, "I don't care what you say. It's my life," to your wife, than it is to your mom. :rolleyes:

Keep working at it, buddy.
 
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