I met a friend this morning and later my Mom for lunch, and in both cases I had a much deeper and much more honest time with them. It seems this journey into the truth is not only transforming my marriage, but my other relationships as well. I was more emotionally and spiritually present today. I felt like... myself again. Felt good.
I'm in over my head
- Thread starter Freetime
- Start date
TruckerPete
New member
I hope your night passes with ease, Freetime!
Beodude123
New member
I'm glad I can help, man. I just went through (am still going through?) the same thing you have been, so I think my advice is pretty relevant, even if it is a slightly different situation. Either way, I'm glad that I've been able to help. It's what I like to do.
I've gone from acceptance to fear and back again about a dozen times tonight, not knowing what's going on. A good friend, the only one who knows about this, came over to help me not go out of my mind.
He's left now and I'm feeling... all right. Not great, but not bad, either. I keep reminding myself I just have to get through tonight, that's all. Tomorrow isn't my problem. Easy to say, tough to do.
Tess is not home yet. We touched base briefly by phone. She wasn't sure that Mr M was interested or that anything would happen. But who knows? Night ain't over yet.
Stay well, folks, and thanks for giving me a place to go.
He's left now and I'm feeling... all right. Not great, but not bad, either. I keep reminding myself I just have to get through tonight, that's all. Tomorrow isn't my problem. Easy to say, tough to do.
Tess is not home yet. We touched base briefly by phone. She wasn't sure that Mr M was interested or that anything would happen. But who knows? Night ain't over yet.
Stay well, folks, and thanks for giving me a place to go.
Definitely good to have a friend you can confide in about these things. That was one piece of priceless advice I recall getting from the first poly workshop we ever went to.
Good on you for biting the bullet and letting Tess try moving forward, despite your reservations. Sometimes a trial by fire is required to really sort out where issues lie, or if there are any at all.
I was actually discussing your situation a bit with my gf earlier tonight, and she mentioned that sometimes we need to risk everything in order to gain anything.
Enjoy the night, and the aftermath, and let future-FT worry about tomorrow.
Cheers.
Good on you for biting the bullet and letting Tess try moving forward, despite your reservations. Sometimes a trial by fire is required to really sort out where issues lie, or if there are any at all.
I was actually discussing your situation a bit with my gf earlier tonight, and she mentioned that sometimes we need to risk everything in order to gain anything.
Enjoy the night, and the aftermath, and let future-FT worry about tomorrow.
Cheers.
Indigomontoya
New member
Wow, FT, thanks for sharing all of this. I just did a full read-through at the behest of my wife, TruckerPete. I can say that it is reassuring to hear so many have the same feelings as I did.
That being said, you really are going about this in the right way: open, honest, sometimes brutal communication is necessary.
One thing I did realize from your posts is that there is an undertone of having to accommodate her feelings and her NRE at a loss to your own comfort. I had this same feeling, like you're doing something wrong by not being totally accepting all the time. Yes?
In my case, when TP and her boyfriend Mr. A first got together, I spent a lot of time on my own, with no one to really talk to. I didn't want to bring TP down by talking with her, so I ended up in a self-created pendulum between acceptance, guilt and remorse for feeling like I was hindering her happiness, anger (how could she do this?!) and outright abject fear. The only way I broke that cycle was with communication and time.
I faced self-image issues (still do) and those fed my fear of TP leaving. In all honesty, TP did leave... But she came back.
I think, even if you don't address your self-image issues initially, you need to realize that she married you for a reason and stayed with you ("shrinking life" due to back injury or not), for a reason, or several. You've built a life together. That counts for something. And she may go crazy with NRE, but that will fade.
So, a couple of recommendations. First, understand that you have value, to yourself and Tess, and emotionally you have more value than her new guy. You've put in the time and effort, damnit. Take ownership of that, because you deserve to be heard, and you need to stop considering her feeling like 100% in control in the relationship. It wasn't until I started to assert more emotional control over how things progressed with TP and Mr. A that I felt I could do this. Nothing is scarier than loss of control. It's the base reason for most of my fears with polyamory.
So, regain some of it. You have rights in this marriage and budding polyamorous relationship. Exercise them!
Second piece: stop comparing apples to oranges, H&Ks to S&Ws, Muay Tai to Jujitsu, etc. A lot of my fear stemmed from direct comparisons and it took a lot of work to realize that there can't be one made. This guy brings things into Tess's life that you don't. That's a fact you'll have to deal with. But by the same token, you bring things into her life that this guy cannot even touch. It's back to self worth. There are reasons Tess didn't just up and leave you when she realized she wanted this. Take value in that and give her credit for her honesty. She could have been cheating instead, but she respected you enough to let you in.
Last piece: Tess wants you to find a girlfriend? Great! But don't feel you need to just to fit in. I did this for a while, desperately tried to add a girlfriend to the mix, and got really down and out because of it. Eventually I stopped looking so feverishly and gained acceptance that if it happens, great, and if not, also great.
On a side note, putting up a profile on POF did wonders for me. I listed myself as single and explained in messages about my polyamorous marriage. You'd be surprised the ego boost you get. Sure, I get a lot of "thanks, but no thanks," after initial interest, but the bright side is I'm definitely attractive to women (nurses especially, for some reason).
Just keep communicating. Don't be afraid to let your feelings and needs known, AND push for them so you feel comfortable. You're not alone, on here or in your relationship.
Thanks for sharing. Good luck.
That being said, you really are going about this in the right way: open, honest, sometimes brutal communication is necessary.
One thing I did realize from your posts is that there is an undertone of having to accommodate her feelings and her NRE at a loss to your own comfort. I had this same feeling, like you're doing something wrong by not being totally accepting all the time. Yes?
In my case, when TP and her boyfriend Mr. A first got together, I spent a lot of time on my own, with no one to really talk to. I didn't want to bring TP down by talking with her, so I ended up in a self-created pendulum between acceptance, guilt and remorse for feeling like I was hindering her happiness, anger (how could she do this?!) and outright abject fear. The only way I broke that cycle was with communication and time.
I faced self-image issues (still do) and those fed my fear of TP leaving. In all honesty, TP did leave... But she came back.
I think, even if you don't address your self-image issues initially, you need to realize that she married you for a reason and stayed with you ("shrinking life" due to back injury or not), for a reason, or several. You've built a life together. That counts for something. And she may go crazy with NRE, but that will fade.
So, a couple of recommendations. First, understand that you have value, to yourself and Tess, and emotionally you have more value than her new guy. You've put in the time and effort, damnit. Take ownership of that, because you deserve to be heard, and you need to stop considering her feeling like 100% in control in the relationship. It wasn't until I started to assert more emotional control over how things progressed with TP and Mr. A that I felt I could do this. Nothing is scarier than loss of control. It's the base reason for most of my fears with polyamory.
So, regain some of it. You have rights in this marriage and budding polyamorous relationship. Exercise them!
Second piece: stop comparing apples to oranges, H&Ks to S&Ws, Muay Tai to Jujitsu, etc. A lot of my fear stemmed from direct comparisons and it took a lot of work to realize that there can't be one made. This guy brings things into Tess's life that you don't. That's a fact you'll have to deal with. But by the same token, you bring things into her life that this guy cannot even touch. It's back to self worth. There are reasons Tess didn't just up and leave you when she realized she wanted this. Take value in that and give her credit for her honesty. She could have been cheating instead, but she respected you enough to let you in.
Last piece: Tess wants you to find a girlfriend? Great! But don't feel you need to just to fit in. I did this for a while, desperately tried to add a girlfriend to the mix, and got really down and out because of it. Eventually I stopped looking so feverishly and gained acceptance that if it happens, great, and if not, also great.
On a side note, putting up a profile on POF did wonders for me. I listed myself as single and explained in messages about my polyamorous marriage. You'd be surprised the ego boost you get. Sure, I get a lot of "thanks, but no thanks," after initial interest, but the bright side is I'm definitely attractive to women (nurses especially, for some reason).
Just keep communicating. Don't be afraid to let your feelings and needs known, AND push for them so you feel comfortable. You're not alone, on here or in your relationship.
Thanks for sharing. Good luck.
TruckerPete
New member
Just to clarify about me "leaving," Indigo finds it reassuring when I tell him, "I'm not going anywhere I'm not coming back from."
Derbylicious
New member
Are you an engineer, by any chance? Nurses and engineers tend to get paired up at lot. Also there tends to be a high correlation between nurses and IT people. (Of course, none of this is scientifically proven at all, just some observations made from being a nurse for the past 11 years.)
Sorry about derailing your thread, Freetime. Back to you now. The only way I was able to move forward at all with my husband having a girlfriend was just to jump in with both feet and let it happen. If I didn't, there would always be some reason not to let things proceed. I did ask for some very specific things for my comfort, and still do, but I like to think I'm in a place of minimal impact on the relationship between the two of them.
Indigomontoya
New member
This is really the crux of it. You have to ask for what you need from them, because NRE will leave her blissfully oblivious to your needs sometimes, nor can you expect her to be a mind reader.
When TP and I started down this road, I had a very hard time asking for what I needed. It took a lot of breakdowns, and TP asking me constantly what I needed. But eventually I just got better at it, and that alleviated a lot of my issues.
Also, to combat the NRE, you need to set guidelines, hard guidelines, regarding her time spent with her boyfriend (if that's what he is), time spent communicating with her boyfriend (I had to ask TP to stop texting Mr. A while she was 'with me' at one time), and how much information you want to know about what's going on.
TP wants to know everything about any woman I talk to, dates I go on, etc. But I just need to know she had a good time, where she was, and for her to keep me up to date on any relationship-status changes. This seems to be the right amount of information for me, so I do not feel out of the loop, but do not feel like I am getting too much information.
That's another recommendation: figure out for yourself what you want to know and then ask for it.
What a difference a good night's sleep makes.
Tess went out with Mr M. They spent the evening talking, and had a great evening, but M doesn't want to go any further than just friends.
Forgive me if this gets hard to read, but I'm still feeling wiped out right now. This week took a lot out of me.
The funny thing is, nothing happened! I have had the most intense, emotionally-challenging week in my 47 yrs of walking this earth and... nothing happened. Every fear, every hope, every high, every low was nothing more than a product an over-active imagination. Wow.
Tess phoned me a few times throughout the night to check in. (She was out for 5 hours.) She said that she didn't think this was going to go anywhere, based on how Mr M was acting and responding to the conversation. Tess brought up polyamory, sex, alternate relationship styles, and sex yet again, as topics of conversation, and Mr M missed every cue to move the discussion in that direction. Finally, as Tess was driving Mr M home, she flat-out asked if he wanted to have an ongoing sexual relationship with her, and he declined. Nicely too, I might add, from what Tess shared.
My night showed me I need both more time and help getting comfortable with this lifestyle change. Tess and I have agreed to a 30-day moratorium on any further action looking for or pursuing another relationship. I need a break and time to recharge. I'm also going to use the time to get at the core of what's going on for me and why I end up going to some pretty dark places.
All of that fear-- of loss, of being alone, of being replaced by a younger man, of not being good enough, of living a "small life," and nothing happened.
On the other side of this, I've also experienced a greater, deeper love for Tess, and a heartfelt appreciation for who she is and what she means to me. When you remove all the bullshit, sweep away all of the small and petty dislikes we acquire for one another over time in a marriage, you find what's real and what's true. And for us that's Love, Trust and Faith. We are soul-bound, Tess and me. It just took a little work to remember that.
I refuse to go back to how I'd been living before this started. It's time, and has been for a while now, to get back into the noise and adventure of living life as it was meant to be lived, loud, large and with love. No more stories, no more excuses, no more feeling sorry for myself. This week has shown me just how fortunate and capable I really am.
My journey into polyamory has just begun. I have so much to learn, so much to do. I'm not sure if you folks realize just how much you mean to me, and how much help you've been and continue to be. Your support, wisdom, and gentle boots to my arse have made a world of difference. On behalf of both T and me, thank you for everything.
I'll post more later, but right now I need to go have a coffee and consider just how far I've come, and how much farther I have yet to go.
Tess went out with Mr M. They spent the evening talking, and had a great evening, but M doesn't want to go any further than just friends.
Forgive me if this gets hard to read, but I'm still feeling wiped out right now. This week took a lot out of me.
The funny thing is, nothing happened! I have had the most intense, emotionally-challenging week in my 47 yrs of walking this earth and... nothing happened. Every fear, every hope, every high, every low was nothing more than a product an over-active imagination. Wow.
Tess phoned me a few times throughout the night to check in. (She was out for 5 hours.) She said that she didn't think this was going to go anywhere, based on how Mr M was acting and responding to the conversation. Tess brought up polyamory, sex, alternate relationship styles, and sex yet again, as topics of conversation, and Mr M missed every cue to move the discussion in that direction. Finally, as Tess was driving Mr M home, she flat-out asked if he wanted to have an ongoing sexual relationship with her, and he declined. Nicely too, I might add, from what Tess shared.
My night showed me I need both more time and help getting comfortable with this lifestyle change. Tess and I have agreed to a 30-day moratorium on any further action looking for or pursuing another relationship. I need a break and time to recharge. I'm also going to use the time to get at the core of what's going on for me and why I end up going to some pretty dark places.
All of that fear-- of loss, of being alone, of being replaced by a younger man, of not being good enough, of living a "small life," and nothing happened.
On the other side of this, I've also experienced a greater, deeper love for Tess, and a heartfelt appreciation for who she is and what she means to me. When you remove all the bullshit, sweep away all of the small and petty dislikes we acquire for one another over time in a marriage, you find what's real and what's true. And for us that's Love, Trust and Faith. We are soul-bound, Tess and me. It just took a little work to remember that.
I refuse to go back to how I'd been living before this started. It's time, and has been for a while now, to get back into the noise and adventure of living life as it was meant to be lived, loud, large and with love. No more stories, no more excuses, no more feeling sorry for myself. This week has shown me just how fortunate and capable I really am.
My journey into polyamory has just begun. I have so much to learn, so much to do. I'm not sure if you folks realize just how much you mean to me, and how much help you've been and continue to be. Your support, wisdom, and gentle boots to my arse have made a world of difference. On behalf of both T and me, thank you for everything.
I'll post more later, but right now I need to go have a coffee and consider just how far I've come, and how much farther I have yet to go.
Sounds to me like the last week has been a great start, with a solid action plan for next week.
Rock on.
Honesty and truth as a lifestyle choice
In the last 8 days I've experienced and expressed more raw emotional and intellectual honesty then I have in years. You folks know this. What I found happening today was backsliding. I found myself once again becoming the hero and/or villain of my story. Tess and I were out today enjoying the sunshine, and I flat-out fabricated my place in the tale I was telling. Before this, a friend wanted to get together and we made plans to meet at 10:00, but I was just too thrashed to go. Instead of just saying so, I made up some fairytale about double booking, I'm an idiot, sorry about that, maybe later.
Why am I posting this here? Because I need to see it. The only way Tess and I will make it through this journey into polyamory is with the truth. The truth in all things, no matter how small. Good news is that I caught it right away. After 8 days of what Tess and I have experienced together, I'd like to believe I've learned something, ya know?
In the last 8 days I've experienced and expressed more raw emotional and intellectual honesty then I have in years. You folks know this. What I found happening today was backsliding. I found myself once again becoming the hero and/or villain of my story. Tess and I were out today enjoying the sunshine, and I flat-out fabricated my place in the tale I was telling. Before this, a friend wanted to get together and we made plans to meet at 10:00, but I was just too thrashed to go. Instead of just saying so, I made up some fairytale about double booking, I'm an idiot, sorry about that, maybe later.
Why am I posting this here? Because I need to see it. The only way Tess and I will make it through this journey into polyamory is with the truth. The truth in all things, no matter how small. Good news is that I caught it right away. After 8 days of what Tess and I have experienced together, I'd like to believe I've learned something, ya know?
Indigo Montoya, I brought Tess up to read your post with me, because it hit so close to home for both of us. I will be using it as a reminder and a primer for what to do and not do. Thank you for stopping in and offering your voice to the others. Your words and kindness were/are well received. Please pass on my thanks to TP for me, if you would. You both rock.
TruckerPete
New member
redpepper
Active member
You're doing great. 8 days is very little time. Don't be too hard on yourself. Some people take years to work shit out! You have come leaps and bounds in 8 days. A little backslide is natural. Our brains like being in a rut, and until a new rut is created, our brains tend to pull us back to what feels natural, even if we know a better way. It's almost as if we need to go back a bit to see where we have come from and how far we have come... see it from the outside, test to see if it feels more comfortable to be where we were, or where we are now. All normal and natural behaviour. Take it as it is and move yourself to where you would rather be. Taking a step backwards is a lesson in and of itself, I think.
Indigomontoya
New member
Thank you very much for your kind words. I appreciate them immensely.
I really have to echo what Redpepper is saying. 8 days of progress is great. It took months to get over the first humps of fear I had. And to be honest, they come back to ninja my brain every so often. So it's always a work in progress, as it should be. You start feeling comfortable, and that gets you complacent, and then you stop communicating, because everything was fine, last you checked. I take those ninja moments as a reminder of how far I've come, and that I still need to be cognizant of my emotions.
You've been hardwired a long time for monoamory. It's not that easy to get over that long a period of thought process. So it goes back to what I and others have said, to allow yourself the emotions, and forgive yourself, too. It's not wrong; it's just growth.
I really have to echo what Redpepper is saying. 8 days of progress is great. It took months to get over the first humps of fear I had. And to be honest, they come back to ninja my brain every so often. So it's always a work in progress, as it should be. You start feeling comfortable, and that gets you complacent, and then you stop communicating, because everything was fine, last you checked. I take those ninja moments as a reminder of how far I've come, and that I still need to be cognizant of my emotions.
You've been hardwired a long time for monoamory. It's not that easy to get over that long a period of thought process. So it goes back to what I and others have said, to allow yourself the emotions, and forgive yourself, too. It's not wrong; it's just growth.
BlackUnicorn
New member
Your signature just cracked me up. Greets from a SOCIO/LOGY student!
Catalyst for change.
Yesterday Tess and I spent most of the day naked. We'd stop for food, water, conversation, and to go shopping for more food and water. No, we didn't go shopping naked. Although in the state we were in, we probably wouldn't have cared. Hilarity ensues.
Last night we talked about how much time to spend on a date. No, I'm not kidding. Normal date, say, with a girlfriend, 2-4 hours of dinner, talking, etc., then Tess comes home. That's the norm. But with a BF? Well, we have the normal dinner conversation timeline as mentioned above, but now we have to add in time for sex, cuddling and other such loveliness.
Can I just shoot myself and be done with it?
Sigh, so odd.
We ordered The Ethical Slut and Sex at Dawn, which both arrived yesterday, and spent time talking about... Canna remember. Too focused on the sex. Did I mention we had sex? Oh right, yes, I did. Well, it was awe-inspiring sex and worth pointing out. And yet, when we finally went to sleep, I felt sad and soul tired, thinking: after tonight, how could she possibly want/need more than this?
Edit: I also felt closer to Tess than I think I ever have in our 20 yrs of marriage.
This morning/afternoon I woke up and broke down weeping again. I'm not sure how to deal with all of this. It is clear that much of what I'm feeling isn't about this life change... It's connected, but not about. Does that make sense?
Tess and I spent an hour or so talking about what is really bothering me about this, but it's like trying to hold onto quicksilver. I think I know, but then lose the thought. We did get to a point that I'm going to share with you folks and ask you a question about.
It is right at this point in the idea of polyamory that I get bent.
Tess goes out with friends all the time. I feel no jealousy, no fear. When I think of her having sex with a guy, it turns me on. We've agreed she'd tell me all the naughty details of when she's with someone else. (My particular kink, I guess, but it is what it is.) Yet when I think about both situations as one, friendship + sex... wham! Jealousy, fear of loss, panic. You get the picture.
Today. Well I'm less Yoda-like, to say the least. I turned a great walk and talk into a dumping session where I let go. I told Tess I was pissed off she wasn't feeling like I was. I was pissed off at her being so okay with such a huge change to our lives. You may be surprised by this, but that didn't go over so well. I made her feel bad, and she cried. How awesomely stupid can I actually get here? I'm afraid to ask, really.
We talked it through. I realized I was doing or reverting to my old behaviors, and apologized. I told her what I really wanted for her-- love and happiness, to go out and have the adventure of a lifetime, filled with fun, friends and frivolity. (By the way, frivolity is a very cool word, and should be fitted into a conversation at least once a day. Okay, maybe not, but it's still a cool word.) Sorry, where was I? Right. apologizing. I shared with her that I was and am her best friend and life cheerleader, and that at the end of the day I just want her to have the best life possible.
That made her cry too. This stuff is hard. I'm going to leave off talking about anything else with Tess for a day or so. I think the sheer intensity of the past 8-9 days has been tiring for both of us.
On a side note, this is the first and only time I've ever gone online and shared anything other then pleasantries and small talk. I'm pretty uncomfortable with this. I am not sure I should be posting this here. What do you think?
Edit: ha! Waaaay to late for that conversation.
Anyway, any comments or suggestions on how not to be an asshole would be greatly appreciated.
Yesterday Tess and I spent most of the day naked. We'd stop for food, water, conversation, and to go shopping for more food and water. No, we didn't go shopping naked. Although in the state we were in, we probably wouldn't have cared. Hilarity ensues.
Last night we talked about how much time to spend on a date. No, I'm not kidding. Normal date, say, with a girlfriend, 2-4 hours of dinner, talking, etc., then Tess comes home. That's the norm. But with a BF? Well, we have the normal dinner conversation timeline as mentioned above, but now we have to add in time for sex, cuddling and other such loveliness.
Can I just shoot myself and be done with it?
Sigh, so odd.
We ordered The Ethical Slut and Sex at Dawn, which both arrived yesterday, and spent time talking about... Canna remember. Too focused on the sex. Did I mention we had sex? Oh right, yes, I did. Well, it was awe-inspiring sex and worth pointing out. And yet, when we finally went to sleep, I felt sad and soul tired, thinking: after tonight, how could she possibly want/need more than this?
Edit: I also felt closer to Tess than I think I ever have in our 20 yrs of marriage.
This morning/afternoon I woke up and broke down weeping again. I'm not sure how to deal with all of this. It is clear that much of what I'm feeling isn't about this life change... It's connected, but not about. Does that make sense?
Tess and I spent an hour or so talking about what is really bothering me about this, but it's like trying to hold onto quicksilver. I think I know, but then lose the thought. We did get to a point that I'm going to share with you folks and ask you a question about.
It is right at this point in the idea of polyamory that I get bent.
Tess goes out with friends all the time. I feel no jealousy, no fear. When I think of her having sex with a guy, it turns me on. We've agreed she'd tell me all the naughty details of when she's with someone else. (My particular kink, I guess, but it is what it is.) Yet when I think about both situations as one, friendship + sex... wham! Jealousy, fear of loss, panic. You get the picture.
Today. Well I'm less Yoda-like, to say the least. I turned a great walk and talk into a dumping session where I let go. I told Tess I was pissed off she wasn't feeling like I was. I was pissed off at her being so okay with such a huge change to our lives. You may be surprised by this, but that didn't go over so well. I made her feel bad, and she cried. How awesomely stupid can I actually get here? I'm afraid to ask, really.
We talked it through. I realized I was doing or reverting to my old behaviors, and apologized. I told her what I really wanted for her-- love and happiness, to go out and have the adventure of a lifetime, filled with fun, friends and frivolity. (By the way, frivolity is a very cool word, and should be fitted into a conversation at least once a day. Okay, maybe not, but it's still a cool word.) Sorry, where was I? Right. apologizing. I shared with her that I was and am her best friend and life cheerleader, and that at the end of the day I just want her to have the best life possible.
That made her cry too. This stuff is hard. I'm going to leave off talking about anything else with Tess for a day or so. I think the sheer intensity of the past 8-9 days has been tiring for both of us.
On a side note, this is the first and only time I've ever gone online and shared anything other then pleasantries and small talk. I'm pretty uncomfortable with this. I am not sure I should be posting this here. What do you think?
Edit: ha! Waaaay to late for that conversation.
Anyway, any comments or suggestions on how not to be an asshole would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited:
Carma
New member
My husband and I have been doing a lot of spontaneous crying this past week too. So I think it's normal! We are really going deep into the matters of the heart, here. How can it not be a mixed bag of strong emotions? I appreciate all the courage and honesty -- this thread has been especially helpful to me this week. Thanks all.
Er, one word, Freetime: letter. We talked about this, remember?