New, want it to work, but struggling at times

[vixtresses]

Isn't it weird how people can be so ready to engage in an affair, but freak out when it is legitimized by your approval? I don't really know how else to put that. I'm not thrilled with my choice of words, but I don't know what else to say. That was one thing my boyfriend and I discussed in the beginning, that both of us were not okay with embarking on an external relationship under the guise of an affair.

I don't think you're nuts for how you felt in bed with your wife after she'd been with Trent. It actually sounds very familiar to what went on between Romeo and me the first couple of times I was intimate with another man. So if you're nuts, then so are we.

I really appreciate being able to read about the struggles of some of the men on this forum. I feel like it gives me some perspective into what might be going on in my boyfriend's head, and gives me an idea how to support him ,and not trample all over his feelings, while we figure this whole thing out. What you've written is very raw, honest, and real, and I appreciate you sharing it with us.

 

[IndieSolo]

​

Today's update. She woke up and told me she had plans to meet Trent for coffee.

This is a yellow flag for me. I think that perhaps any difficulty you might have with their relationship could be assuaged by knowing in advance when they go out and how often, etc. A schedule. It can't be as considerate or easy for you, for her to just spring on you that they're getting together on the same day. What if you have plans or wanted to surprise her with something? You can't do that if you don't know what days she's with you. When you are not traveling, I think her time with you should be prioritized, and a schedule for her time with him needs to be established (or at least an agreed-upon number of days per week allotted to him). From what I've seen here, spouses deal better when liaisons with OSOs are scheduled and spouses are informed and, therefore, prepared. You can have a looser arrangement when you're out of town, but also set up a schedule for her to have talks/video chats/contact with you when you're away, so you can feel included.

​

One thing I learned yesterday that I didn't appreciate was that the whole time they were together he was under the impression that I was not aware. When she told him that I knew where she was he kind of freaked out. She told him there can be no lies or deception. I think that's great on her part. I am not thrilled that he was so ready to continue 'behind my back'. He says he cares about me and doesn't want to break up my marriage, but then he is very quick to betray my confidence. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I am not losing sleep over it, but it does bug me a little.

I have a feeling it is just due to inexperience. He surely knew that you were aware they are seeing each other; he just probably didn't realize what level of details was out in the open.

​

The other thing I thought I would throw out is how I felt yesterday when she and I were intimate. It was a real turn-on for me to think that she was with him earlier and then she was with me. It felt 'dirty' but also felt right. Any thoughts on that? Am I nuts?

Lotsa guys get into that. From a woman's perspective, I think it's a very empowering thing to be with more than one man in a day, and I am sure her feeling of being in command of her sexuality translates to some awesome sex for you.

 

[Carma]

... The whole time they were together he was under the impression that I was not aware. When she told him that I knew where she was he kind of freaked out. She told him there can be no lies or deception. I think that's great on her part. I am not thrilled that he was so ready to continue 'behind my back'. He says he cares about me and doesn't want to break up my marriage, but then he is very quick to betray my confidence. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I am not losing sleep over it, but it does bug me a little.

... It was a real turn-on for me to think that she was with him earlier and then she was with me... Am I nuts?

The trust required to be in a V is an interesting dynamic. Not only do you have to trust that this man is not trying to steal your wife, he is trusting that you are not going to suddenly freak out and kill him!!! That is some trust, right?

(In the beginning, each time we were together, Butch would ask me, "Are you sure we're cool?" Remember, the Sundance Kid was a sure-shooter, haha!)

Also, there is a lot of sketchiness over the male code of honor and respect. My husband could easily lose respect for a man who is sleeping with a married woman, let alone when that woman happens to be his wife! On the flip side, my BF could lose respect for a husband who shares his wife and seems not to value her enough to fight to keep her exclusively his, the old-fashioned view prevailing that a wife is property. There has been a historical shame in being a "cuckold" -- but I believe the shame lies in being duped, the husband being the last to know, more than the actual wife having sex with another man. Even though, with our honesty, we have removed that element, I think it is still scary for my husband to be in this position. Naturally no man wants to set himself for judgement or humiliation in the community. Being in a V makes them each very vulnerable to that. I am amazed when I stop and think about the way my men trust each other. It's not always easy, for either of them.

Speaking of cuckold, and the second issue you mentioned in your post, at the beginning of our arrangement, I looked up some stuff on the internet on "hot wife" and "cuckold," and it was very erotic and a new perspective I had never heard of before. We're not quite as kinky as the people who are really into that stuff, but it did spice things up and make us realize that nothing is so taboo and horrible as we once may have thought! Check it out and you may find some fun surprises.

 

[sagency]

Today's update. She woke up and told me she had plans to meet T for coffee. I told her to have fun and tell him I said hello.

RC, this is a good sign. It's the healthy type of response I'd expect from a successful relationship. Nycindie is right in suggesting prioritizing your in-town time and have a schedule as helpful, but that will take practice, so chalk it up for the future. You're doing well.

One thing I learned yesterday that I didn't appreciate was that the whole time they were together he was under the impression that I was not aware. When she told him that I knew where she was he kind of freaked out. She told him there can be no lies or deception. I think thats great on her part. I am not thrilled that he was so ready to continue 'behind my back'.

On some level this could be surprising ("he's trying to be sneaky!"), but dial it back just a bit. I'd bet this guy is just as new to this situation as you are. (Yes?) If that's the case, is his surprised (surprise plus emotion = freak out) reaction that surprising?

Consider how things work in the traditional mono world. A man and a woman for a couple. They may only have each other as intimate and sexual outlets. Any violation of that is automatically horrid. So, if a man or a woman are to have outside interactions, then it must be hidden and deceitful because there is no other option.

Now, if that's how his worldview operates, it becomes clear that he very possibly could have been operating under the assumption of deceit because "that's how things are done." This isn't the same as seeking deceit. Thus, his freak out was a combination of feeling caught (how it works under traditional mono) plus finding out that hubby is much more aware that expected (poly-adjustment syndrome). A freak out in this case isn't a big surprise then, and it could indicate that your image of him (challenged in his mind by this revelation) is important to him. In short, he's likely freaking out for similar reasons to your freak outs--it's new and it's not how you've been programmed. Your progress may even serve as an example to him.

As for the wife's role, there are two things. First, I have to point out that her clarity level with him previous seems low. I suspect she's adjusting, too. Therefore I won't wiggle a finger, but I know from my own experience and hesitancies in the past that talking to people and partners about poly life gets easier with practice. I advise that sooner is better than later (though it always is scary when you're admitting to something that could challenge people's traditional views).

Second, and much more important, "no lies or deception"... excellent. There's a reason nycindie says honesty is sexy. Poly life involves levels of honesty that you'll come to find are likely beyond what you imagined. Being honest with each other and especially with yourself is vital. Good on her for articulating.

The other thing I thought I would throw out to this audience since you are so helpful is how I felt yesterday when she and I were intimate. It was a real turn on for me to think that she was with him earlier and then she was with me. It felt 'dirty' but also felt right. Any thoughts on that? Am I nuts?

Of course it felt dirty--society has spent decades telling you it's a bad thing. (I'll spare you a whole thing on patriarchy and controlling female sexuality.) But deconstruct it a bit: your wife is a person who is able to love many people--you, her children, her new guy. She was with him, but then she comes home to you (as a poly with a mono at home, I cannot put in words how important that connection I feels in when coming home). Because you're trying to open your understanding up, she can feel that you're accepting her and desiring her not for the image she's projecting (traditional mono wife) but for the person that she is. Your shared intimacy then served as a concrete example that her care for the new guy doesn't diminish her love for you.

If you are a student of history, there's also many examples of "shared women." Working girls have existed throughout history, Geek temples had women that would service the men, and many tribal cultures have woman sharing elements. The end result is actually quite often a closer bond among the tribe. I'm not surprised you'd feel excitement with your wife because you're starting to really let her be free from traditional bonds, and given her freedom, she returns to her beloved husband with renewed energy. Pretty sexy.

I also asked if she and I could spend some quality time later to just chill. No deep conversations, no stress, no need for xanax (lol). She was open to that so I am hoping we can try and resume a normal life.

RC, you've made a lot of progress. It's impressive how well you managed to hang on when a lot of emotion and decades of programming were getting in your way. I'm glad to hear that you're getting to a place where you can relax and enjoy your new normal. When bumps come up again (they will, it's to be expected), you'll have more experience and results to help you. Me and mine are happy for you and yours.

*hug*

 

[RobertCourage]

As always thanks to all who responded. Vixtress, I am glad my experience is helpful to you.

Today's post is about fear. As I work to accept this lifestyle I am often challenged by the fear of what will happen. My inclination when things are broken is to fix them and fix them fast. This is often self-defeating. So as I sit here now, fearful of the future, I turn to you all instead of trying to solve everything right now. Because I know this will take time and patience. And patience is another thing I am not so good at.

My biggest fear tonight is that I won't be 'chosen.' I wonder if her long-term goal is to make a choice that does not include me. I know that she has the best of both worlds now, but I wonder if she's looking for a new start. We were in a jewelry store today and she looked long and hard at engagement rings. Could be her simple love of diamonds. But in my fearful mind, I wonder if she's wishing she could start over with him. I know I am being paranoid and stupid. And because I know that, I won't act on this. But I still don't trust that her ultimate goal is to maintain the polyamory forever.

That's it for now. Gonna be patient and ride out the insecurities.

 

[TruckerPete]

Regarding engagement and such, I catch myself sometimes thinking about these things with my boyfriend ... Then I remember that we can't. And that's kind of sad.

But none of this has anything to do with hubs.

 

[RobertCourage]

Fuck. I can't stop thinking this is too hard, and questioning if it's worth it. So much risk. So much pain. I hate this. Time moves too slowly. I just want closure!

 

[RobertCourage]

And thinking I need to start protecting myself. I'm trying so hard and putting all of myself out there. What if she decides to leave? Then I am devastated. Do you think I need to adjust my mindset and leave a little of myself protected? I am going to focus on finding that nugget of me that is not at risk when my marriage ends. It's in there somewhere annoying need to dig it out and protect it. Call it contingency planning.

 

[NeonKaos]

I am going to focus on finding that nugget of me that is not at risk when my marriage ends. It's in there somewhere annoying need to dig it out and protect it.

That is exactly what you should be doing. You should be focusing on yourself, whether your marriage may be ending or not. It is also better to have a life that stands on its own, with or without a partner, even if you have a lot in common with your partner(s) and enjoy spending your free time together.

 

[sagency]

RC, a slightly different take on NeonKaos' post...

Yes, focus on yourself for a bit. If she's out doing stuff, keep yourself busy. It's not about protecting yourself, though. It's about being happy with yourself.

As far as her looking at shiny things with you around, consider this, she's doing this openly and obviously. She is not hiding. If she was really plotting to leave you, do you think she'd do it where you would see it? No. She allows herself to look around with you nearby. It might be a way of sharing. Your presence makes her feel safe enough that she can have happy thoughts.

When it comes to my mono partner, K, I'd happily wear a ring or a modified ring for particular partners if the situation was right. It doesn't mean in any way, shape, or form that I'd ever turn away from K. It's hard, after decades of mono programming, to get away from love as a zero-sum game, but poly folks grow love, not steal it.

In the meantime, patience is hard, because it means waiting. I know you're a man of action. As I recall, we had a plan to relax this weekend, spend three days at work next week, and then head back home. Stick to that plan, okay? The plan is there and is a good one. Right now you're in the relax and be RobertChill phase.

*hug*

 

[MonoVCPHG]

That is exactly what you should be doing. You should be focusing on yourself whether your marriage may be ending or not. It is also better to have a life that stands on its own, with or without a partner, even if you have a lot in common with your partner(s) and enjoy spending your free time together.

I'm with Neon on this, wholeheartedly. I think it is important to protect yourself in all fronts, including emotionally. I don't see anything wrong with pulling back a bit while she explores this. You're wife is so new to this that I doubt if she really knows if she is actually poly yet. Her journey of self-discovery is as new as yours is.

Good luck and look out for yourself.

 

[RobertCourage]

Thanks. Going to try and be positive today, but am pulling back on my expectations to protect myself. I can't sit here every day, wondering if she will be close to me or distant from me, when all I want is for her to be close. So in order to manage my feelings and not drive her nuts I will reset my expectations. I will assume that she wants space and work to cope with that. If she decides to focus on me, then I will engage. If not, I will look for other ways to burn off that pain and negative energy. No small task, but I will try.

Will keep you all posted.

 

[RobertCourage]

We had a brief conversation about her desires. She very much wants to keep both Trent and me in her life, so much, in fact, that she wishes we could all just live together. Unfortunately, given my children, this will never happen, which got me thinking that a lot of the pressure she's dealing with is the fact that she wants more of him, but her life is in the way.

I am trying to be flexible and support the time she wants to be with him. I hope she doesn't get to the point where she is so frustrated that she pushes me away, since I am connected to all the hard stuff that is making it difficult for her to be as connected to Trent as she would like.

Maybe once school gets back in session and the kids are not at home all the time, things will be better. But I need to get through the next 7 weeks or so, and hope that the hopelessness of having the kids 'cramp her style' doesn't push her over the edge into the deep end. I really believe that if there were not kids involved, we would all be able to work out a schedule/arrangement that would be good for everyone. So as I work on myself, I also work on solutions for getting more help with the kids and freeing up more of her time to see Trent. The hypothesis is that if she can see him often enough to feel good, she will think more logically about the big picture, and not get all caught up in NRE.

Thoughts?

 

[redpepper]

We had a brief conversation about her desires. She very much wants to keep both Trent and me in her life... she wishes we could all just live together... this will never happen... she wants more of him, but her life is in the way. I am trying to be flexible and support the time she wants to be with him. I hope she doesn't get to the point where she is so frustrated that she pushes me away, since I am connected to all the hard stuff that is making it difficult for her to be as connected to Trent as she would like.

Maybe once school gets back in session and the kids are not at home all the time, things will be better. But I need to get through the next 7 weeks or so and hope that the hopelessness of having the kids 'cramp her style' doesn't push her over the the edge into the deep end. I really believe that if there were not kids involved, we would all be able to work out a schedule/arrangement that would be good for everyone. So as I work on myself, I also work on solutions for getting more help with the kids and freeing up more of her time to see Trent. The hypothesis is that if she can see him often enough to feel good, she will think more logically about the big picture and not get all caught up in NRE.

Thoughts?

NRE sucks. She just has to suck it up. Seriously. It isn't your problem or the kids' problem that she wants to loll around with her boyfriend all day while you take care of things.

Man, I remember that feeling when I met Mono. I had to suck it up, and so does she.

Don't play into that shit! She will have to get her priorities straight, and that's that. She created her life; she will have to be responsible for it. If she has a hard time with that, tell her she can talk to me about it. I am ready and willing to knock some sense into her.

I remember that PN just kept quiet and got about making sure there was balance. He didn't let me wallow in my whiney thoughts and feelings of being hard done by. After a very short time of him not budging, I just shut up, and got about working on that balance also. I was not a single woman. I had responsibilities. I had to rise to the occasion. I could see that I was being selfish and inconsiderate to them. I made a commitment to them and I needed to honour that. My life is not my own in the realm of my family life. and that's that.

My kid suffered for a time with this. He has come around and his life is really good now, better than it ever has been. But it took me sucking it up, PN being consistent and firm with the balance I had to have, and Mono being considerate of the time and space I needed to be with my family. It took some time for me to figure out a balance.

The moving-in idea will have to wait, I think. It took us 18 months before Mono moved in. PN had a really hard time with it; I had a hard time with my lack of time to myself; and Mono didn't want to push anything, and was wary for his own reasons.

The NRE has to be good and over before it will work, I think. Also, there has to be a rapport built between you and Trent, a friendship that goes beyond what you have ever known before. You don't seem to be anywhere close to that!

You and your wife might want to read my blog to catch a glimpse of how it might go down. For us, it was a matter of going at a snail's pace. Rushing things means that something gets missed and the whole balance of plates on sticks topples.

Just when I thought things were covered and we could move forward, fear, anxiety, hidden assumptions and expectations would rise to the surface. My son was the biggest challenge, as he doesn't communicate as we do. It had to rise up in his behaviour for us to get to the bottom of it. Then we would come together and deal with it as a tribe/family, including Mono, so that he felt that we were all there for him. It took a long time for him to trust and believe that.

Sorry if there is any kind of frustration in my tone here. I'm trying my best not to lash out at her. I seriously want to hit her upside the head.... mostly because I so know what she is going through. I hear you, as I heard PN. If I could say anything to her it would be "Come on, sweetheart, get your act together. Buck up and pay attention. You are not a child. Put your big girl panties on and be a grown up. You have a responsibility here to three people now, as much as you do yourself. Put yourself aside for now, as you got what you want, and get about taking care of those around you."

I suggest that you read the "Lessons Learned" thread here, and bring her attention to it. There is a thread on "Foundations" also. It sounds to me like getting to the foundation of where this is going could help.

Try sitting down and making a concrete plan of how this is going to play out. What to expect, how she is going to manage her time and emotions. This might help you at least feel stable and like nothing is going to smack you upside the head.

Remember to stay true to your boundaries for yourself and the kids. She shouldn't be allowed to make all the plans. This is your life too. Taking off for coffee or whatever whenever she wants is just going to become tantalizing and a tease, and she will expect to get to do that always. If she spends any significant time away from him, the NRE will wear off for a bit and she will see clearly enough to be the responsible adult that she is supposed to be. Call her out, put your foot down on that. You are not her doormat.

Try and think of this as her being addicted. This is how I felt. I needed some help to realize that I needed to create moderation with Mono. I needed to be reminded of my responsibilities. Sure, I blew up over it, but so what? It was the smack across the face I needed. PN stood up for our family, and I am more in love with him than ever for it.

 

[sagency]

Quick note: Both RC and his wife sound new to the life. As much as we want them to be fluid poly geniuses, let's recall that both (and lately his wife especially) have a lot of learning and growing to do. What we might take as obvious is still new for them.

RC, it's good you're focusing on keeping yourself safe and busy. Chill is your friend right now. And while you can be the great dad you are and look after the kids extra, your wife should still be there to some degree-- no abdicating just because of NRE!

Baby steps are still steps.

 

[RobertCourage]

Oddly enough, I feel the need to defend my wife. While she does want to spend time with Trent more than anything, she is taking care of the kids' needs first. She is getting them where they need to be, which is no small task sometimes. She went to one of the kids' games today to watch them play. She stayed home with me today, just to hang out. So while she wants to be with Trent, she is doing what she needs to do for the kids. And today, for me too.

My concern is whether she resents us all for making her miss out on time with Trent.

She will be meeting him tomorrow morning. I have fair warning so I can plan around this and work through the emotions.

I just finished reading a post of someone whose marriage is over. That saddens me. I wish them the best. I am fearful I am going to face the same fate as my wife works towards autonomy. Let's hope not!

When I started this thread, I said I want to make this work. I have been up and down since then. But fundamentally I really do think that if everyone plays this the right way, it will work

Life is short, fragile and precious. Love is important and valuable. I don't want to lose precious time worrying about happiness. I want to be happy now, even if it means figuring out this unconventional relationship. She makes me happy when we click. This should not change that, right?

 

[sagency]

RC, you and your wife may click in ways you never dreamed of.

I believe the two fundamental aspects of a successful poly relationship--like a successful traditional relationship--are the people and the work. I see you working, and that's good. I hope that you are also the right people (personalities).

Rider and RBR made me sad, too. They were working, but Rider and RBR missed on the people part. You and wifey are not them though. The two of you are dealing with this at a different time in your relationship, and with different life experiences. Learn from it and let it strengthen you.

I'm super glad you and wifey got to hang out some today. Don't worry about her resenting that time. Just thank her tomorrow for the time, as she heads out. As a poly living with a mono, I know that domestic tranquility is important. Feeling my wife's thanks and support are important for my happiness, as I expect your thanks and support are important to wifey. And when I spend time with K, or your wife does with you, you each can know that, yes, we could be elsewhere, but your loves are so important to us that we need that safe and quiet time to recharge, just like you do.

Your care and assistance and good wishes for her success will go a long way to reducing any resentment. And as NRE levels off, and you two gain experience, you'll worry less.

*hug*

 

[RobertCourage]

Here's an interesting twist. We talked tonight about me being home more so that we could connect. I got a lukewarm response. The basic idea is that since I have been traveling for so long, she is kind of used to having me only around on the weekends. She compared it to an older couple who retires and then they don't know how to manage all that time. So what she would prefer is that we keep things the way they are. I keep traveling, so that she has the week to herself, and we then connect on weekends.

I have no idea how I feel about that... Part of me is relieved, since I don't have to apologize for being away. Part of me is hurt, because she doesn't want to spend that time with me.

I am trying to take an optimistic view, which is to say that when I am home, if things are good, then maybe everyone will be happier. If I am home too much it will make her feel pressured as she tries to perform her balancing act with two guys.

I am still playing a very cautious game. I told her today that this poly thing is part of a cycle that started a couple years ago, of her redefining herself. She is not done with that cycle. I let her know she has to determine if she wants me in her newly-defined life (as she figures it out). I am willing to wait it out for a while, as long as I am treated well. Can't wait forever, though.

Still keeping the kids in mind too. The status quo works for them. It's better if I can be home more, but leaving my job now (if I can even find a good new job) means a pay cut, maybe relocation, lots of disruption. So it appears that the best answer is to keep doing what I am doing, provide the financial support needed to keep things going, and have my marriage operate on a Friday to Sunday basis.

How the hell did I end up here?

 

[sage]

How did you end up where you are? In my opinion, if your relationship was a lake, you let it become very polluted. Your wife has adapted to life inside that polluted lake and you are struggling with her adaptations.

I want to thank you, Robert, because reading your posts has helped me realise that I have let my own lake get a bit polluted, not to anywhere near the same extent, but the clean-up process is going to be similar.

I can't really feel the tremendous love I have for my partner at the moment. Initially I thought it was because he is flat: there is uncertainty of job security where he works and an old friend of his has breast cancer. He hasn't been as loving to me as a result, and where I would normally have the emotional energy to comfort him, I haven't, because I've let resentments build up. I find the poly thing exacerbates issues like this because, although this has nothing at all to do with his being poly, I already feel I'm doing more than my fair share in this relationship.

Like you, I am asking myself: do I want to be in this long term? Maybe instead of asking ourselves that question, we should be trying to commit to our relationship on a day-at-a-time basis. After all, how much more can anyone guarantee?

Instead of trying to control outcomes, I am going to do the very best I can do today with my relationship as it is. This might sound easy, but it is actually quite powerful, and brings in acceptance, taking responsibility for our part in getting it where it is, and releasing any notion of control over the eventual outcome.

This is big stuff. Thanks again for getting me thinking like this.

 

[RobertCourage]

Thanks, Sage. I agree on the take it day-by-day approach. It's too uncertain and complicated to think about the long term. Every day in life is precious. So we can worry them away or we can embrace whatever we can to find some solitude, peace and happiness. That's what I am trying to do.

My wife is meeting with Trent right now. She said she will be home in a little while and then she is all mine. So I am going to focus on the later part, when I get quality time with her, and not obsess about right now. I woke up worried about the long term, to be honest, and quickly stopped myself, because it's simply not productive. If the long term is a mess, I will deal with it then.