A BDSM, wife found a dom and excludes me completely

So who told you the bf is "taking all the best of your wife, and throwing her back at you for what's left over"?

My wife told me he said that, I guess it was supposed to be a joke. This was said closely before my testosterone treatments started working.
 
Actually when I came here and started, I did feel left behind.

I admit I am not the most mentally stable person in the world, but I am quite in tune with my own feelings, needs, wants.

Yes, I started to push her away. At first it was a defense mechanism. Then it just became anger. Now it's just self-preservation. The less close I feel to her, the less hurt. Now, sadly and unfortunately, it's just a complete and total change in the marriage dynamic. She can see him all she wants. I actually want her to now, because it means I can have the house to myself.

He can be the primary, and get ALL of her. Not just "the best parts", but also those parts he joked he could send back to me.

I tolerate less. She raises her voice, she makes poorly timed jokes, she nags and criticizes, I just shut her down now. She wants to stay married, but I won't be some poly safety net. I'm also not going to bankroll anymore of her little gifts and toys and lingerie to use with him like she used to. She doesn't bring in enough income to put 50% into the household, so my money isn't going towards her lifestyle choice.

And that IS my choice. I am choosing to stay married under MY terms, not hers. She insists she won't be the one to leave, so that is HER choice.

Funny thing is - we don't fight anymore. We get along almost as good as before I even hit my depression-low last year. No sex, little intimacy. I'm fine with it. Still working on my exit plan in case things go south again, but if they stay like this, I'm content enough. I figure if she wants this marriage to be happier, she can make some effort herself for a change. She hasn't really, so it is what it is.
 
You sound better. More firm of purpose, and with clearer personal boundaries around what you will and will not put up with.

Good for you!

Funny thing is - we don't fight anymore. We get along almost as good as before I even hit my depression-low last year. No sex, little intimacy. I'm fine with it.

Still working on my exit plan in case things go south again, but if they stay like this, I'm content enough.

Also good for you.

I figure if she wants this marriage to be happier, she can make some effort herself for a change. She hasn't really, so it is what it is.

Yup.

You can't be doing your side of the marriage stick AND her side of it.

If for now, you are content enough with things as they are and you are feeling better than before? Good!

Galagirl
 
Hi LB, it is good to hear from you again; on the one hand I am sorry things have sunk to such a low point between you and your wife, but on the other hand I'm glad that you have found a way to make your own kind of peace with the situation. It's like GalaGirl said, you can't be the one to hold up both your part in the marriage and her part as well. If she won't do her part, then she can hardly complain when you distance yourself from her (for your own protection).
 
I am sorry to hear that this is where your marriage has come to rest but glad to hear that you are in a place of, relative, stability for now.

I (an internet stranger) would encourage you to continue to maintain your “exit strategy”, as your contentment in your current situation may wane.

You do mention financials as part of the dynamic. My situation is, naturally, very different. I am the primary financial provider, both for my husband and for my cohabitating boyfriend..

MrS, at times, has felt that this financial dynamic has limited his options. I am of the very firm opinion that finances should NOT dictate relationship choices so our agreements have always included some degree of financial freedom. Currently, I portion off a percentage of my income as “his” - which would allow him, theoretically, to maintain a separate modest residence if he felt the need. (Or, he could elect for gainful employment and manage his own finances.)

What sort of arrangements do you have with your wife? (NOT asking you answer that here! Just rhetorical!). I was, myself, peeved when Dude (who has no income) was paying for dates with his other girlfriend with what I saw as MY money. Would it make sense for you and wife to come up with a financial contract regarding what money was “shared” and what was “personal”?
 
What sort of arrangements do you have with your wife? (NOT asking you answer that here! Just rhetorical!). I was, myself, peeved when Dude (who has no income) was paying for dates with his other girlfriend with what I saw as MY money. Would it make sense for you and wife to come up with a financial contract regarding what money was “shared” and what was “personal”?

There is honestly no possible contract we could come up with that will make it anymore fair for me. I make too much, she makes too little. Even if she got a part time job and took over every chore around the house, it would fall grossly short. I already mentioned once that she couldn't spend my money on crap for/with him and she freaked out. Already I am going to have to foot stomp that point and probably start filtering my money into my separate account. That will just give her more fuel to fan the "My husband is a mean, selfish person and bad guy" flames. Shrug. When the divorce hits, she can have half of it then.
 
There is honestly no possible contract we could come up with that will make it anymore fair for me. I make too much, she makes too little. Even if she got a part time job and took over every chore around the house, it would fall grossly short. I already mentioned once that she couldn't spend my money on crap for/with him and she freaked out. Already I am going to have to foot stomp that point and probably start filtering my money into my separate account. That will just give her more fuel to fan the "My husband is a mean, selfish person and bad guy" flames. Shrug. When the divorce hits, she can have half of it then.

Sounds bad, but if you are honestly planning for divorce, try to communicate this stuff via text. You could use the transcripts showing her attitudes as proof of alienation/separation before formal paperwork is filed (depending on the state anyway). She might not get half if your state has at fault divorces.

Hubby and I have made different amounts at different times. We have always agreed on an amount for each of us to be put aside as personal money. The rest goes to bills and joint funds for us to decide how to spend together.
 
I am surprised people are advocating holding finances over a partner as a means to control their behavior.

How is having a set budget holding finances over someone's head? If she wants more money, what is stopping her from getting a part time job? I work overtime when I want extra money for dates.
 
How is having a set budget holding finances over someone's head? If she wants more money, what is stopping her from getting a part time job? I work overtime when I want extra money for dates.

What is the set budget? That she can do whatever as long as she's putting no money towards the other relationship? OP hasn't indicated she's going nuts and draining the bank account or anything. He is complaining that she is spending anything at all, not anything outside a budget.

Since we don't know their whole living situation since the beginning of their relationship, I am making some assumptions. I am assuming that she took care of the household while he was off being in the military. That should have some value, right?

Sure, she can get a job, maybe. Good luck in the current job market. Plus, how many women give up a career in order to take care of a husband? But sure, she can get a job and he can do more around the house. Or she can leave the ungrateful guy who is holding money from her out of spite.
 
There is honestly no possible contract we could come up with that will make it anymore fair for me. I make too much, she makes too little. Even if she got a part time job and took over every chore around the house, it would fall grossly short.

This makes me wonder what "fair" for you would mean.

In my world, fair is not about equivalence in the monetary (or nominally monetary) "worth" of something, but rather about things like needs, capacity, effort. In a household, do we all feel like we're "pitching in" as we are able?

When it comes to how to divide incomes, if one person's ability to earn is being supported by others, it's not solely "their" money.

Your reasons for why a "fair" contract isn't possible don't add up to me. If you had a lucrative full time job, and she had a much less lucrative part-time job AND did all the chores, a fair agreement could be:

  • you cover all household bills with your income
  • her income is her personal spending money
  • whatever income you have left (after household expenses) is your personal spending money apart from X amount put towards joint/household savings
Or pretty much anything you both agree on, that you think is "fair" given each person's needs and contributions to the running of the household / partnership.

For example, AlwaysGrowing's setup:

Hubby and I have made different amounts at different times. We have always agreed on an amount for each of us to be put aside as personal money. The rest goes to bills and joint funds for us to decide how to spend together.

Why is such an agreement not possible for you and your wife?

Whatever amount of money is allocated as her discretionary spending should be out of your control. If she wants to use her budget on dates, that's up to her. This avoids you exerting control over her through withholding finances if you disapprove of something.

Relationship finances are often not a problem... until they are. Dating separately can sometimes require you to formalise how you share money and household responsibilities, so that each person has freedom to make separate choices while still being fair given each person's contributions (whether it's income-earning, caregiving, chores etc).

(To reiterate Magdlyn - please choose a nickname for your wife if you're going to continue to post here. I don't think she has a name yet. Forgive me if so.)
 
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What is the set budget? That she can do whatever as long as she's putting no money towards the other relationship? OP hasn't indicated she's going nuts and draining the bank account or anything. He is complaining that she is spending anything at all, not anything outside a budget.

Since we don't know their whole living situation since the beginning of their relationship, I am making some assumptions. I am assuming that she took care of the household while he was off being in the military. That should have some value, right?

Sure, she can get a job, maybe. Good luck in the current job market. Plus, how many women give up a career in order to take care of a husband? But sure, she can get a job and he can do more around the house. Or she can leave the ungrateful guy who is holding money from her out of spite.

They don't have a set budget. Jane and I both recommended they do. Also, in my area there are TONS of jobs. They just aren't necessarily the ones people really want. Caregiving. Childcare. Lawn care. Cleaning services. Grocery stores. Factories. Delivery. Farm work.

Hubby has a very professional full time job, but when he really wants to save up for something he goes out and does manual labor part time for a while. It sucks, but it works.

Agreeing that wife and op each get x amount every paycheck as their own money to spend on whatever they want while the rest is for household expenses isn't controlling. It's life. If she wants more than the x amount, she can get a job, even if it is a shitty one. If she hasn't been working for years it would honestly be good for her since op is planning to leave.
 
They don't have a set budget. Jane and I both recommended they do. Also, in my area there are TONS of jobs. They just aren't necessarily the ones people really want. Caregiving. Childcare. Lawn care. Cleaning services. Grocery stores. Factories. Delivery. Farm work.

Hubby has a very professional full time job, but when he really wants to save up for something he goes out and does manual labor part time for a while. It sucks, but it works.

Agreeing that wife and op each get x amount every paycheck as their own money to spend on whatever they want while the rest is for household expenses isn't controlling. It's life. If she wants more than the x amount, she can get a job, even if it is a shitty one. If she hasn't been working for years it would honestly be good for her since op is planning to leave.

I totally agree with you, especially on that last part. The controlling part comes in when the one holding the wallet decides they don't want their partner to spend any of the money allocated to them on dating. That is a classic patriarchal attitude. He is basically punishing her. He's saying there is no way she can make enough to pay half the bills and have her own spending money. To me, that even goes beyond whatever her allocation is. He's saying he pays the bills, therefore it's his rules.

I'm not saying I don't get where he's coming from, but he needs to work through that if it's going to work. It sounds like even if she gets a job to pay for dates he's not going to be happy because she's not contributing to the household. The real issue is that he doesn't like the guy so he's trying to make things difficult.
 
I am surprised people are advocating holding finances over a partner as a means to control their behavior.

I am surprised that you are interpreting anything that has been posted as "advocating holding finances over a partner as a means to control their behavior".

How is having a set budget holding finances over someone's head? If she wants more money, what is stopping her from getting a part time job? I work overtime when I want extra money for dates.

What is the set budget? That she can do whatever as long as she's putting no money towards the other relationship? OP hasn't indicated she's going nuts and draining the bank account or anything. He is complaining that she is spending anything at all, not anything outside a budget.

A set budget is the one that you negotiate, outlining how the household finances are handled. Which money is "his", which money is "hers" and which money is household and both people have to account to each other for.

This will look differently for each person/couple/polycule. For instance, MrS worked while I was in graduate school - he brought home a paycheck and I did work-study and took out loans (which we were trying to keep to a minimum). He kept a portion of his weekly pay plus any tips and overtime as "his" that he could spend any way he liked (we called it "hookers and drugs" money - HAHA!). I kept a portion of my work-study funds.

As time goes on and circumstances change, the agreements change as well. I would not have been able to go to school and achieve a high salary as a professional if MrS hadn't been supporting me (in many ways, not just financially) - so he has earned a "stake" in our current wealth even though he doesn't earn an income.

Dude, who came into the picture later, contributes to the household now in ways that certainly "earn his keep" - he does the majority of the shopping and cooking and all of the car maintenance, etc. But he isn't entitled just to "opt in" to the financial situation that we took 20 years to build before him! :eek: My financial agreements with him look different - because the situation is different.

They don't have a set budget. Jane and I both recommended they do. ...
Agreeing that wife and op each get x amount every paycheck as their own money to spend on whatever they want while the rest is for household expenses isn't controlling. It's life. If she wants more than the x amount, she can get a job, even if it is a shitty one. If she hasn't been working for years it would honestly be good for her since op is planning to leave.

... The controlling part comes in when the one holding the wallet decides they don't want their partner to spend any of the money allocated to them on dating. That is a classic patriarchal attitude. He is basically punishing her...

Yes, that is/would be controlling - but I don't see anyone here advocating for that. I was asking what were their agreements (apparently, they don't have any).

I think that it is absolutely vital that each person has access to funds that are not controlled by someone else - whether that is money from a "side gig", a set percentage of household income, an estimate of a "fair wage" for work they do (how much would it cost to hire a housekeeper, nanny, personal shopper, etc.?) - hell, even "their share" of gifts or tax refunds. (Back when we were broke, any "found money" - gifts, rebates/refunds, cash-back bonuses - got split 3 ways - 1/3 to me, 1/3 to him, 1/3 to household for investment or student loan payments).

With regards to the OP - if his wife usually spends x amount of money per year (a de facto budget) and he felt that was fine - then, if she is spending the same amount but using it for other things (i.e. dating) then perhaps he is being "mean" (if she is giving up a mani/pedi and spa days to spend money on a hotel with her BF then the net is the same). On the other hand, if she is spending the same amount as previously on regular stuff and wants hubs to foot the bill for the extra expenses generated by BF? That seems fresh.
 
So let me get this straight:

Me - replaced, neglected, betrayed, make far more money, give her a nice home and a comfy lifestyle

Her - less money, boyfriend she gives all of herself to, does less around the house since this started, wants money to spend on/for him

And I'm supposed to allow it?

NO!

Seriously. It isn't using finances to control behavior. I am at a point where I don't give fuck all about her behavior. But if I don't work - my retirement and disability still comes close to doubling her income and together - we make ends meet. With me working, that is cash in bank. So either: 1) I work so she can spend my earnings on some other guy, or 2) I don't work and have zero spending cash period.

Set budget? At this point the set budget is if she can't put 50% into the household, she doesn't get a dime. That's the damned budget.
 
I am just going to focus on my exit plan. I doubt her time with her parents, no matter how long, will fix anything. She said I pushed her too far away, and honestly she has done that to me now.

Did the couple counseling help any?

She sounds like she totally got obsessed with the new BF and neglected the marriage big time. Also neglecting her home responsibilities. Not hearing you when you raised concerns.

At this point you seem to be planning to move forward with divorce. And working through things like betrayal, anger, etc. Perhaps some grief over the impending lost marriage.

Already I am going to have to foot stomp that point and probably start filtering my money into my separate account. That will just give her more fuel to fan the "My husband is a mean, selfish person and bad guy" flames. Shrug. When the divorce hits, she can have half of it then.

Well, you could do it in three accounts now. Like your money, her money, the house money. You seem to accept giving her half after a divorce. Could detach emotionally from the money and just view it like starting to pay your divorce bills now rather than starting to pay them later.

Could start filtering yours to yours. And hers to hers. And leave the house for the house bills.

Then the finances start being separate. Whatever you start putting in her bank would be counted as part of the division of assets.

(And if she blows it all on cupcakes or Dude, that's her problem. She really could be planning for rent on a flat or whatever in post divorce life.)

I know some places you can download the divorce forms and bring already filled out to the courthouse and file it. But things are weird in pandemic so... find out how it works now where you are. Call up the courthouse or email them.

Set budget? At this point the set budget is if she can't put 50% into the household, she doesn't get a dime. That's the damned budget.

You sound angry. And I get it. You have a lot to be mad about.

Even so, try your best to get through as quick and peaceful a divorce as possible. Remember you loved her for 15 years. Even if she seems to have gone bananas now.

Even if you could get your digs in financially, maybe doing "starve the wife" like some people do when divorcing...

Even if it is asking a lot of you to take the higher road when you feel so low...

Aim for quick, clean, as peaceful divorce as possible.

Not so much for her, but for YOU and your healing. So when you look back on it you can know you carried yourself out of this mess with dignity. Whatever wackadoo was going on around you.

Maybe you could set another appointment with the counselor for just you? And this time talk about navigating divorce and what support you might need?

I'm very sorry this has blown up like this. What a mess. :(

Galagirl
 
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Sounds bad, but if you are honestly planning for divorce, try to communicate this stuff via text. You could use the transcripts showing her attitudes as proof of alienation/separation before formal paperwork is filed (depending on the state anyway). She might not get half if your state has at fault divorces.

Hubby and I have made different amounts at different times. We have always agreed on an amount for each of us to be put aside as personal money. The rest goes to bills and joint funds for us to decide how to spend together.

That first paragraph is what rubbed me the wrong way. What a way to do poly. Truck your wife to say things in text that you can use against her so you don't have to give her money in a divorce.
 
So let me get this straight:

Me - replaced, neglected, betrayed, make far more money, give her a nice home and a comfy lifestyle

Her - less money, boyfriend she gives all of herself to, does less around the house since this started, wants money to spend on/for him

And I'm supposed to allow it?

NO!

Seriously. It isn't using finances to control behavior. I am at a point where I don't give fuck all about her behavior. But if I don't work - my retirement and disability still comes close to doubling her income and together - we make ends meet. With me working, that is cash in bank. So either: 1) I work so she can spend my earnings on some other guy, or 2) I don't work and have zero spending cash period.

Set budget? At this point the set budget is if she can't put 50% into the household, she doesn't get a dime. That's the damned budget.
Allow?

Seriously, it is using finances to punish her. Do her a favor and leave. You obviously don't love her. Are you just getting off on punishing her?
 
Hi LeftBehind,

It seems to me, that your wife isn't playing fair with you. And you are saying, that if she isn't playing fair with you, then you don't have to play fair with her. If she is going to throw you into the furnace, then you don't have to help her heat the furnace up. She can find her own way to do it. I have to say, this is a mindset that I can understand.

I think you are telling her, "This is what I'm offering. Take it or leave it." And you are ready for her to leave it: for her to divorce you. My only suggestion would be, have you considered divorcing her? If you do it, then you don't have to wait to be free of her in your life. Or are you hoping she'll come to her senses, and start to play fair with you?

I do think you're getting the short end of the stick.
Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
 
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