A BDSM, wife found a dom and excludes me completely

LeftBehind

New member
I'm having some trouble, I am a late 40s man married to a late 30s woman for over 15 yrs now. From day 1 of our relationship, we have not been traditional. We've been swinging, playing with the cuckold/hotwife thing on a few short term occasions, and we both knew we were poly able.
I was in the military for most of this, and throughout that entire time I had a roaring sex drive. Being in the military, everything had to be very low key, cautious, etc. About five years into our marriage, her sex drive began to diminish to nothingness. She would still do it after some persistence, but then it began to feel like it was forced so I started to feel guilty just asking for it. Throughout all of this time she told me to go find someone else. Now I roll my eyes at this for a few reasons: 1) I'm a guy, and while I don't consider myself ugly or unattractive by any means, I am not some blow-you-away type from the start, and 2) We were stationed at all these small bases, small communities - everyone knows everyone. Now I did try, carefully, to no avail.
So that's how it was for near a decade. We finally get stationed Stateside and she's at rock bottom with the sex drive. It's starting to cause problems. First she finally opens up to me that sex hurt...like extremely bad. I'm at the "WTF?? Why didn't you tell me???" stage, and I am feeling hurt, angry, and extremely GUILTY (to this day with the guilt). So since we're back in the States, the medical care we can get is far better (because we're not limited to military care). So she starts seeing a doctor and starts working on it. She still hurts so she goes back to the "find someone" thing. Well I kept trying and a few years later I actually did find someone.
That someone was also married, but separated. She just wanted a play partner. I just needed a play partner. It grew into something more, and my wife was perfectly accepting of it. Things were ok. My wife was working on her medical issue and I wasn't bugging her for sex. My void was full.
Well that girlfriend had to move further away. At the same time, I was being medically removed from the military due to some injuries, so I started to slip into a bad depression. I was also on testosterone replacement therapy at the time and the military stopped it due to prostate concerns. Meanwhile my wife was now powerlifting and had a personal trainer, dropping weight like nobody's business, and she saw her drive coming back. At one point she said her trainer was expressing a lot of interest in her sexually, so of course I was more than happy to say "By all means, explore!". He was very, very, very well endowed (much bigger than me, and that's not a problem at all...but it explains something). She didn't feel pain! It worked!
But then *I* started to lose my sex drive. The stress of being removed from the military and that depression, the uncertainty of my future or even my identity (I was in the military over 20 yrs) was pressing on me hard. So after my retirement, I became a "house husband". She still worked, I stayed retired...alone, in my head, sinking further.
I had suggested we finally check out the swingers club (now that I am not in the military, it's not a problem). She was on board. I figured getting and going out, being around like minded/care-free'ish people, a sexually charged environment would do us both good. It did - for her. Not for me. I was still sinking. So I did for her what she had done for me - I said "Go find someone". And she did. And it was working.
Now at first she was treating it like our past cuckold play. She would come home and want to tell me about it. I didn't want to hear about it. I wasn't in the mood. In fact after a few of her play dates I found myself in the opposite mood - sex was disgusting me. So I told her that by all means keep playing, be happy...but leave me out of it. I don't want to hear about it.
Now after that, she finally saw where I was. She started to push me to go to a men's clinic and get back on testosterone. I didn't want to. So for a few months I remained indifferent to her activities. Far as I was concerned, that was the best outcome. We still had a very loving, caring marriage at home and she was getting her sexual needs met elsewhere. Win-win.
Well between her and my now very long distance/haven't seen in a few years girlfriend that I still talked to - they both got on me to get on testosterone. So I went to the clinic, had second thoughts, my wife said "Just try it!", so I did. The shots have started working. By the fourth week, I noticed urges and erections and sexual thoughts. By week five...I was feeling like a full blown monster.
So I tell my wife about it, thinking she's been pushing for this so she's ready to go too - and she hits the brakes.
Seems her and her playmate became something I never imagined. She became a full on sub to him and he is her Dom. She had NEVER expressed that to me ever in the past as even an interest. She has a closet full of new outfits and toys and I am completely blown away. Now I am not angry, I said I didn't want to hear about it. That was my bed that I made.
Then I start hearing about all the shit they were doing. They'd go out to a vanilla bar or club, and he'd finger her inside the club. I would never have gotten away with that...she would have pulled away in a heartbeat. He gets her anally. WTF? She was 150% against anal throughout or entire relationship. Deep throat/face f***ing. Same thing. And then the tasks. He ordered her once to clean his room naked. She has never been naked outside of our bedroom or bathroom our entire marriage. She says "I'll never say no to him". GAH WHAT!?!?
So she sees my shock and we start talking through it. Then she hits me with the bricks. She could NEVER sub to me, we're equals and she doesn't fear me at all (part of this for her is the slight fear thrill she gets). I can never have her anally or get deep throat style blowjobs or make her do tasks or finger her in public because she only does that as a "sub". So with me being her "equal" that doesn't cause her any fear, I can be told no on whatever request she'll say yes to him for.
So to shorten this already too long background to lead to a question, here's what's happening:
1) My sex drive came back with a vengeance, but now because I told her to go have fun without me - she has developed new kinks and interests that she can't/won't share with me. She feels we can move forward with plain old vanilla sex.
2) She'll stop if I ask her to stop. We all know what will come of that on her end, and I know it won't change anything on my end. I don't see any benefit at all from this stopping. I can't unhear the stories. I can't unfeel what I felt (betrayed, hopeless, hurt). I just have to accept this is a piece of her that is fully hers and hers without me.
3) She's not in love with this guy. She is 100% sure he'll get bored with her and move on. I, however, don't really think any guy in his right mind would ever give something like this up. So if I don't push for it to stop, it will continue.
I guess the question is - how do I get past this? We're talking like mad, covering everything from start to today. My honest to goodness suggestion was I stop taking the shots, she goes back to not telling me what they do, and we move on with the rest of our happy marriage. No shots = no sex drive = no loss for me. She says she wants to have sex with me...but in the same breath she talks about how thrilling it is with HIM, and that all these thrilling things she won't do with ME. It almost feels like "Oh your drive is back (that I pushed for you to get back), well here's a bone/pity-fuck".

Am I wrong here?
 
You are not wrong to have feelings.

You might be wrong to try and make comparisons. I don't think that's healthy.

For me, one of the joys of poly is the difference between partners. Your wife doesn't want to do anal with you? Big deal. Find a partner who does. My wife didn't like anal. Two of my girlfriends did. Problem solved.

Your wife made a mistake giving you details like that. I an into BDSM, my wife wasn't. Two of my girlfriends were. I didn't share details of what we did. Two reasons. One, it was none of her business. Two, I knew she had feelings of inadequacy due to not being submissive. I didn't fret about her not being submissive. I enjoyed her for who she was with me.

Also, it doesn't help to view her parts as objects you are fighting to share, as if you own her ass and how dare she give it to someone else.

Now if her not doing these things with you was a result of following orders as a sub to the other guy I would have a problem with that. That would require your consent to be part of their D/s dynamic.
 
LeftBehind,

I'm so sorry you're hurting. I would like to offer you an alternate way to think of your wife's new relationship - while the details are wildly different some of the ... dynamics between you and your wife and her Dom remind me a little bit of me, my Knight, and my Artist (If you want lots of backstory, check my blog, but to sum up Artist is my Dom, although we don't usually use that word for it, and Knight is my husband.)

The thing about kink, especially power exchange kink, is that sometimes it requires a certain amount of ability to objectify your partner - and that's something that honestly is lost by the time you've been dating/married to someone for 20+ years. And it requires a certain amount of being able to see yourself as that object. (At least for me, everyone else's mileage may vary). So a relationship that was already well established with no power dynamic simply *can't* just turn into a D/s one - it feels too strange, too much of a change from the way you already interact - this is why she said she couldn't do this with you as you were equals and had always approached sex as such.

I do that same compartmentalization, although I don't know that there are any acts that I would do with Artist that I wouldn't do with Knight - the feeling behind them, however, would be very different. Another difference is that I don't believe Artist will move on, but I digress.

The thing is that you're assuming that because she does (x, y z) with Dominic (see what I did there? ) that she cares for him more than she does you - and that doesn't strike me as necessarily true. Part of it, I'd guess, is that she doesn't want to *be* the person who does such things with you - more than a little bit of internalized madonna/whore complex, I think, recognizing it as something I've felt myself.

I agree with Vinsanity that it does sound like you're feeling a lot of ownership around your wife's body and sexual activities which... at least in my opinion isn't a great place to start from. And you're also assuming that kink sex is somehow MORE than vanilla sex - and honestly it's not, at least not if it's good vanilla sex. The two are *different* connections - but not *better/worse*. So I know you're hurting right now, but please consider that. Like I *want* to have intimate, caring sex with Knight, or even rough passionate sex - just because I don't want kink with him doesn't mean I don't want him - good god I wouldn't angst as much about whether he wants me if it did.

I don't know if that helps or not, but I hope it gives you something to think about.
 
Hello LeftBehind,

I think it's rather heartbreaking that your wife has opened herself up to this other guy in so many ways, and refuses to do so with you. :( I don't think you did anything wrong, to deserve to get treated like that. And, I'm afraid that no matter what you do, it will still hurt. You could stop taking shots and that would allow you to not need sex any further, but, you would still know that your wife rejected you and that would hurt. You could look around and maybe find another woman who would do those things with you, but, you would still know that your wife wouldn't do those things with you. Your wife! of all people! This is always going to make you feel like a lesser person, inside. Like, a person who has no value, or who has inferior value. I would suggest a divorce, but I have a feeling you wouldn't want to go down that road. The only other option I can see is to make peace with the fact that this is the door that was opened/closed when you told your wife to stop telling you about this guy.

Things are not going to be easy for you; that much is clear.
With much sadness for your situation,
Kevin T.
 
A good point was brought up about not owning my wife's body. Very true. I do admit, complete honestly, that sometimes it is easy for me to get caught up in the "this is mine" mentality. I also, complete honesty, reflect when I feel that way and remember that she and I are both individuals and adults.

It was the shock of it that really got me. For the entire time I knew her, it wasn't off limits because I wasn't "dom enough" or "too big", it was because she "didn't like it, period, end of story". So of course, you respect that. I did revisit it a few times, the answer never changed over the years. Her body, her preference, her choice. But then to find out that this dude not only got it because he "said it was going to happen", but that she also LIKED it...that is what threw me completely off balance. Then during the talks she said that would always remain a "dom/sub" thing, and I would never be able to dom her - that threw me for a loop as I came crashing down. It really wasn't a sense of thinking I owned it, but learned she did it, liked it, but STILL not for me is what hurt.

We've been very much talking all this week...like 12 hr marathons. We're making a lot of progress. She and I will be ok. Our *us* is still on solid footing. This is an obstacle we will clear.

The more I read from others point of view, the better. It has helped me. On another forums (strictly BDSM) I copied/pasted this post word for word, so I am getting that point of view as well.

I knew from the beginning this was MY "issue" to solve, but of course in this marriage any one person's issue is both of ours. She is not at fault, necessarily. She went forward with my full blessing and zero restrictions. Just because I was in a slump and didn't want to see it/hear about it/know about it, doesn't mean she did anything wrong. I know that. Again, it was the shock factor that got me and got me hard.

So thank you all. I hope to hear from more folks. Like I said, it does help and I am appreciative.
 
Your wife doesn't want to do anal with you? Big deal. Find a partner who does. My wife didn't like anal. Two of my girlfriends did. Problem solved...

Now if her not doing these things with you was a result of following orders as a sub to the other guy I would have a problem with that. That would require your consent to be part of their D/s dynamic.

I agree of most of what you wrote Vinsanity - but, these two ideas struck me as ...problematic? Or at least deserving of closer scrutiny.

One of MrS's "mock rules" (back when we started and still had "rules") was - "No anal with him if you won't do anal with me." It's a "mock rule" because - a.) no one can really make rules for anyone else, and b.) because I won't do anal with anyone (major SQUICK!). There is a difference between your wife and OP's wife - your wife "didn't like anal", his wife is refusing anal with him (which he would like) and accepting anal from someone else. Apples and oranges - NO ANAL vs. no anal, FOR YOU.

Fine, OK - each person gets to decide what to allow with their own anus...
But then you go on to say that that the "reason" she doesn't allow anal with the OP makes a difference. So let's look at those possibilities:

1.) Doesn't want anal with ANYONE (me and your wife) - OK, no one who doesn't want anal should have to have anal.
2.) Doesn't want anal with someone with a large penis which causes pain - OK, no one who doesn't like pain should have to have pain inflicted. (I can't tell if this is relevant here - I don't know if the Personal Trainer that is "well endowed" is the same partner who is the Dom - but I can see where this could come up).
3.) Doesn't want anal with someone who is not her Dom, because she can only do/enjoy anal when subbing - and she can't sub to the OP. - I don't know if this is the case, but where does that fall on your OK/not OK spectrum?
4.) Doesn't want anal with someone because her Dom TOLD HER NOT TO. - You say that THIS you would have a problem with?

1 and 2 are valid, 3 is maybe, but 4 is no-go? Aren't all of these ultimately her decision? It's still her anus, right?

I'll go read the rest of the thread to learn how wrong I am :p (I don't know much about BDSM - so I'm sure I will learn something...)
 
I'd like to clarify the uncertainties so the convo can continue on with the most accurate information.

#1 was what she expressed to me since day one of our relationship. Yes, she tried and entertained it, no it didn't work out. Throughout the years I would revisit it, she was still "nope, it hurts". Okie dokie. No issue.

#2. This could have been it, but she even admitted it isn't. Her trainer, being the incredibly hung as a horse guy, didn't want anal. She just started doing him when her drive came back from her weight loss. We talked it over, I said go for it. She did. She came home SCARED (lol) but after a few times they made it work. It didn't last long, as she didn't want to be having a sexual relationship with too many ppl...so since the guy who is now the Dom was her top pick, she let her trainer know no more sex (and he was ok with it). From what she tells me, I am "bigger" than her Dom. Not much she says, but enough to notice. So she did say that now she realizes she can do anal AND like it...

#3. She then goes from "no way, it hurts and I don't like it at all with anyone period end of story" to "Oh wow I find I DO like it....buuuuuuut now I only like it when subbing". People change, I get it. Preferences change, I get that. It still doesn't negate my feelings on the issue. Also I want to make clear that anal is just one thing she lets him do that she never let me do in the past nor expressed an interest in doing with me at all.

#4. This guy, her Dom, has been VERY GOOD actually in not doing anything INTENTIONALLY to put our marriage at risk. If anything at all, he would be the lone victim in all of this if I had thrown the red flag. She started with him when my drive was near the bottom of the slope, and when they started to get more acquainted/serious/familiar - I was rock bottom, saying "I don't want sex, I don't want to hear or think about it. You go do you and take care of your needs. I can't, and I don't know if or when I can." So then she says "Hubby doesn't have sex anymore, oh and by the way this dom/sub thing turns me on, let's explore it". So what else is a guy supposed to do? He says "Well I don't like sharing" and with me being out, that became the path they went down. That is 100% my fault, if fault can be assigned. My problems/issues created a path they could go down. While she was pushing insanely hard to get me to get my issues fixed, she didn't look ahead to the consequences of what they had created with each other. I didn't want to be told about any of it, so I couldn't have known either.

So I hope that clears some things up. To Vinsanity though, I do take concern with what you said of: "Go find someone that does". If it is as easy for you as you advise, I am truly very happy for you. That is something to be very proud of, as it is an ability many would die for. I am in my late 40s now. I'm not a gym rat fitness type, I shave my head bald because the hair thing stopped working for me. I'm tall. I'm in good enough shape to be healthy. I am not ugly by any means...but just going out to find someone isn't something that has ever worked well for me. I can post ads, I can go to socials and mixers, I can get friend zoned in a heartbeat. I'm not everyone's cup of tea...and I am OK with that. My wife is a damned hottie (when we met, when she put on weight, and now with her weight loss - always the head turner). My last girlfriend (who is still in my life but lives to far for us to really have a relationship) is a hottie and head turner also. She also hates anal and has no interest in dom/sub or other stuff. We connect on other levels anyways. So I got lucky with two wonderful women.

If I go my entire life without having a woman that enjoys anal ever again, I am not going to consider my life ruined. That's not even really the point of my post. It was the sudden change, the new interests, and the automatic "not for you" mentality. It came as such a shock because that is just something I would never, ever say to her and she never said to me in the past. That's what I think this is really about and why I reached out for input (and while I didn't agree with that one particular point of your input, I appreciated it ALL!).


I agree of most of what you wrote Vinsanity - but, these two ideas struck me as ...problematic? Or at least deserving of closer scrutiny.

One of MrS's "mock rules" (back when we started and still had "rules") was - "No anal with him if you won't do anal with me." It's a "mock rule" because - a.) no one can really make rules for anyone else, and b.) because I won't do anal with anyone (major SQUICK!). There is a difference between your wife and OP's wife - your wife "didn't like anal", his wife is refusing anal with him (which he would like) and accepting anal from someone else. Apples and oranges - NO ANAL vs. no anal, FOR YOU.

Fine, OK - each person gets to decide what to allow with their own anus...
But then you go on to say that that the "reason" she doesn't allow anal with the OP makes a difference. So let's look at those possibilities:

1.) Doesn't want anal with ANYONE (me and your wife) - OK, no one who doesn't want anal should have to have anal.
2.) Doesn't want anal with someone with a large penis which causes pain - OK, no one who doesn't like pain should have to have pain inflicted. (I can't tell if this is relevant here - I don't know if the Personal Trainer that is "well endowed" is the same partner who is the Dom - but I can see where this could come up).
3.) Doesn't want anal with someone who is not her Dom, because she can only do/enjoy anal when subbing - and she can't sub to the OP. - I don't know if this is the case, but where does that fall on your OK/not OK spectrum?
4.) Doesn't want anal with someone because her Dom TOLD HER NOT TO. - You say that THIS you would have a problem with?

1 and 2 are valid, 3 is maybe, but 4 is no-go? Aren't all of these ultimately her decision? It's still her anus, right?

I'll go read the rest of the thread to learn how wrong I am :p (I don't know much about BDSM - so I'm sure I will learn something...)
 
" 1 and 2 are valid, 3 is maybe, but 4 is no-go? Aren't all of these ultimately her decision? It's still her anus, right?"

I don't see it like that. There are some things in life one would really like to be an option but they can live without them. Could be anal. Could be sleepovers. Going without this thing because your partner isn't into it is one thing. Going without it because your metamour has forbade your partner from sharing that with you is another.
 
The anal is a red herring, the MacGuffin.

After that long long saga of sex and kink and the military, and depression upon retiring, roaring sex drive, lack of T, lack of sex drive, swinging, hotwifing, girlfriends, boyfriends, polyamory, weight loss and more muscle, open marriage, on and on and on...

It does not all come down to who gets the butt secks. lol

There has been a lot of change and a lot of partners, and a lot of water under the bridge between LeftBehind and (wife who needs a nickname).

I applaud you for riding out all these changes. A lesser person would have bailed.

I think it comes down to, (wife who needs a nickname) has changed over the years. She's changed her appearance, from young hottie, to middle aged spread but still hot, to gym body. But her psyche, like those of many of us, is the important thing.

We are allowed to change in our sexual and kink practices. Life has its ups and downs, and so do long term marriages. Anal is a tricky practice. I have experienced it as painful, or as a neutral feeling, or as a turn off, or as mildly pleasant. The best times is when I am super turned on from sex already, just in a sort of plateau, in a fog of cumming over and over. Sometimes then my whole body becomes an erogenous zone and the anal sex can feel... OK. I still never love it.

It does depend on who is doing it to me. Not just whether he or she is a Dom, but whether he or she has taken the time to really warm me up first, and to keep stimulating my clit while s/he does it. Things like that.

But anyway, the whole D/s dynamic can definitely get you doing stuff you'd never dreamed you'd do. Things you found disgusting (like you found all sex disgusting) can seem fantastic when you're deep in subspace.

I think when one is in 2 long term relationships, that are both pretty serious, it's good not to tell one lover what you do with the other, other than in broad terms. And it's definitely not good to ask or demand to be told.

When you're swinging, or hotwifing, it's couple-centric. The hubby wants to hear about or see how his wife looks having sex with another. But in a V like this, one arm being vanilla and very long term, the other arm being shorter term, less serious emotionally, and D/s, I recommend your wife keep what she does with either of you private from the other guy. It serves no purpose to share details.

If your libido is good now, try to focus on what you and she both desire from each other, and consent to. It's pointless to be greedy and think, I get to have everything the other guy gets. That's just not how it works.

My long term partner Pixi and I are both kinky, and we are equals, but she does things with her Master that she doesn't do with me. On the other hand, we do things as kinky equals that she doesn't do with him! And not just sex/kink things, I might add, but other activities. Variety is the spice of life. Poly is about celebrating the uniqueness of each lover, not about trying to get what the other lover gets, in equal doses.
 
I'm sorry you struggle.

Let me sum up in my own words so I know I get it how you mean it. You correct me if I get it wrong ok? I quote just to visually block it off.
PEOPLE

  • You
  • Wife
  • Her Dom

BACKGROUND

  • You are late 40s retired military. Now a house husband who is kinda in a slump because you don't know who you are now.
  • You and wife have been married for 15 years. You have enjoyed swinging, playing with the cuckold/hotwife thing on a few short term occasions, and both know you could do poly. Actual practice was limited though while you were military.
  • You recently broke up with (?) your GF who moved away or coming to terms with thinking of her as an "ex" and not "gf"
  • You have recently dealt with testosterone issues at a clinic. (Andropause things?) You told wife to find another sex partner while you had your issues. With treatment, you have regained your sex drive after a slump there.
  • You also have depression. (What are you doing to address this? And how is untreated (?) depression coloring this whole experience?)


PROBLEM

Wife recently took up with a Dom.

1) You feel shocked she's into that. Even though for a time you kinda checked out sexually because you were dealing with depression and slump stuff and told her to find a new sex partner doing whatever she wants.

2) She is interested in sharing sex with you. She's not interested in doing any BDSM things with you. This is a problem because...

  • You feel left behind/left out/not included in wife's BDSM thing. (Do you still want to share sex with wife even if not BDSM things?)
  • You want to quit your testosterone meds and go back to not having a sex drive. Then you don't have to deal with your libido or feelings. You can go back to depression non-feeling because feeling numb is easier than feeling so much in technicolor. (I am guessing. Is any of that true?)
    • You think that solution would be a happier marriage for you. (But would that be happy marriage to HER? She was the one urging you to go to the clinic.)

3) Intellectually, you know it's her body, her choices, her preferences. But she hasn't dated a whole lot outside of you. Just gym trainer and now her dom. So you haven't had much practice sharing her with others and the emotions that sometimes brings up.

4)She also hasn't had much practice sharing either because she babbles at you with TMI details thinking she's including you that way but really it drives the wedge deeper that she has this whole other life over THERE that you are not a part of. (What are you and wife doing to foster connection between just you two? How do you contribute to that? How does she?)

5) Dating others is work. You talk down about yourself. You have a hot wife and had a hot GF, and think you got "lucky" somehow to have them. (Again... what are you doing about your depression?)

Is that about right?

You also seem stuck on this.

It really wasn't a sense of thinking I owned it, but learned she did it, liked it, but STILL not for me is what hurt.

She then goes from "no way, it hurts and I don't like it at all with anyone period end of story" to "Oh wow I find I DO like it....buuuuuuut now I only like it when subbing". People change, I get it. Preferences change, I get that. It still doesn't negate my feelings on the issue. Also I want to make clear that anal is just one thing she lets him do that she never let me do in the past nor expressed an interest in doing with me at all.

Even with the swinging and stuff... it did not occur to you that different bodies just go together different? It sounds like you have a bigger penis than Dom does. So she can deal with anal with him easier than you. If YOU were having anal penetration, could you deal with a smaller or bigger penis easier back there? Smaller, right?

WITHOUT the bdsm part of it, would she still want to do anal? Or clean his room naked? Or... whatever else? Sounds like she's into the stimulus of the head games BDSM brings.

There's a lot of stuff I dislike. But I love to dislike in the context of BDSM. It's not the thing itself, it's the "loving to hate it" that's the turn on.

I mean, c'mon. Who really wants to clean a room naked? All this dust and guck and stuff getting on my clothes is bad enough. Getting it on my bare skin? Nrgh. Without the turn on of the head games from BDSM, it's frankly just a stupid way to clean a bathroom or bedroom or whatever from a cleaning efficiency POV. I NEED the kink angle to make it fun.

I suspect wife is discovering similar -- stuff she doesn't like she likes now IN A BDSM CONTEXT. It sounds like she's tried telling you that.

It doesn't sound like she thinks this relationship with her Dom is going to last. And while she offered to end it with him now, you don't want to tell her to from fear that she will resent you later.

I might be wrong here. But to me it sounds like you are struggling with these things that are made more complex because

  • you deal with them when just coming out of depression
  • there's just so many sticks on the fire
  • If a large part of your identity for the last 15 years was "military dude" and that's gone, or "lover & BF to X" and that's broken up, or "lover & husband to Y" and that's been on the shelf due to medical... you are going to already be feeling rudderless and bummed out without BDSM complications on top.
  • It kinda sucks there's the Dom here with power exchange happening when you are at a time in life where you feel kinda powerless in some areas (career, testerone libido thing, depression thing, etc)

1) While intellectually, you know it is her body and her preferences and you don't "own" her?

Emotionally you have enjoyed a long period of just you and her on that side. Like even when you had your GF, wife wasn't seeing anyone else. So on that side, it was just you and wife and you didn't have to share her with anyone else.

So you haven't had much time to grieve "the old normal" changing to this "new normal" where you DO have to share her time and attention because she seeing someone.

2) She sucks at sharing because she's not learned how. And she's OVERsharing, telling you TMI things. Like her faucet is turned on too high.

She might be so happy to have you "back" -- one who isn't struggling with libido, depression, etc as much -- that she's like some pent up person babbling at you now. Like her spouse is "back" and trying to participate in the marriage again. Rather than being this "kinda checked" out dude. So yaaaay!

But you feel something like "Damn, girl. Hold up there some! Don't overload me right off the bat! I'm edging back in the shallow end of the pool here being back to "being alive" rather than the "being walking dead" of depression. And this isn't a new hobby of knitting or tennis here. This is wrapping my head around the fact that you are into BDSM and have a Dom now." (Is that it?)

3) When your lover finds BDSM and you are not part of that world. That's another change and another thing to grieve. Not the volume of the faucet. More like what IS this coming out of the faucet? I was expecting something like X if you were gonna tell me you found a new BF. Not Y.

4) When you realize you have based your ideas around intimacy mainly around physical acts and have to update what you think intimacy is. Not just physical intimacy, but emotional intimacy, mental intimacy, etc.

You talk like you are being "Left Behind" but really? I read she still wants to be with you, she still wants to share her ideas and emotions with you, share sex with you, share marriage with you. And she sounds true blue -- she's been here a long time and she's willing to talk all this out.

You seem to recognize that and value it.

What I am NOT hearing is a plan for how to deal with multi-griefs and changes, while supporting you "coming back to life" from depression. As well as long term depression management.

So what's the plan there? Are you guys taking a step back to talk about all that? Or are y'all stuck on the "butt sex and why not meeeee?" stuff?

Cuz you seem to be hung up on the anal sex or kinds of sex she doesn't want to do with you right now... maybe because it's an easier hook to hang it on than look at the bigger picture?

But maybe part of the reason you get so hung up on that is the (untreated?) depression? Because looking at the bigger picture overwhelms a patient with depression?

On top of all that...

I am in my late 40s now. I'm not a gym rat fitness type, I shave my head bald because the hair thing stopped working for me. I'm tall. I'm in good enough shape to be healthy. I am not ugly by any means...but just going out to find someone isn't something that has ever worked well for me. I can post ads, I can go to socials and mixers, I can get friend zoned in a heartbeat. I'm not everyone's cup of tea...and I am OK with that. My wife is a damned hottie (when we met, when she put on weight, and now with her weight loss - always the head turner). My last girlfriend (who is still in my life but lives to far for us to really have a relationship) is a hottie and head turner also. She also hates anal and has no interest in dom/sub or other stuff. We connect on other levels anyways. So I got lucky with two wonderful women.

You talk down about yourself a lot there and think you just "got lucky" with two hot women.

Is that a habit? The depression talking? Or what?

Galagirl
 
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I agree of most of what you wrote Vinsanity - but, these two ideas struck me as ...problematic? Or at least deserving of closer scrutiny.

One of MrS's "mock rules" (back when we started and still had "rules") was - "No anal with him if you won't do anal with me." It's a "mock rule" because - a.) no one can really make rules for anyone else, and b.) because I won't do anal with anyone (major SQUICK!). There is a difference between your wife and OP's wife - your wife "didn't like anal", his wife is refusing anal with him (which he would like) and accepting anal from someone else. Apples and oranges - NO ANAL vs. no anal, FOR YOU.

Fine, OK - each person gets to decide what to allow with their own anus...
But then you go on to say that that the "reason" she doesn't allow anal with the OP makes a difference. So let's look at those possibilities:

1.) Doesn't want anal with ANYONE (me and your wife) - OK, no one who doesn't want anal should have to have anal.
2.) Doesn't want anal with someone with a large penis which causes pain - OK, no one who doesn't like pain should have to have pain inflicted. (I can't tell if this is relevant here - I don't know if the Personal Trainer that is "well endowed" is the same partner who is the Dom - but I can see where this could come up).
3.) Doesn't want anal with someone who is not her Dom, because she can only do/enjoy anal when subbing - and she can't sub to the OP. - I don't know if this is the case, but where does that fall on your OK/not OK spectrum?
4.) Doesn't want anal with someone because her Dom TOLD HER NOT TO. - You say that THIS you would have a problem with?

1 and 2 are valid, 3 is maybe, but 4 is no-go? Aren't all of these ultimately her decision? It's still her anus, right?

I'll go read the rest of the thread to learn how wrong I am :p (I don't know much about BDSM - so I'm sure I will learn something...)

(With apologies to the OP. I know it looks like we are focusing on the anal part, but we are just using that as an example that applies to many things.)

1 and 2 are not points anyone would disagree with.

Number3 is more complicated. While vanilla people tend to focus on the physical acts we do, BDSM has a very mental aspect to it. I think Mags explained that nicely. In Wife's case it's a sub space. In my case it's a Dom space. There are things I've done with women that I wouldn't have been comfortable doing with my wife even if she had come to me and said she wanted to be submissive. I just wasn't in that same space with her.

I'm not saying that if she suddenly liked anal with one of her boyfriends but not me, that wouldn't cause me to have feelings about it. I like to think I would be able to work through them by applying my philosophy on poly.

Number4 isn't about rules per se, but about consent to those rules. I remember reading about one member here who's husband asked her to not perform a certain position with any of her boyfriends. She lets them know this up front and it's up to them whether they agree to that or not. That's fine because all parties know.

Sprite was the first ongoing relationship I had with a sub who had a Master. He had three rules for her that mildly affected her other relationships. One had to do with how she dressed when meeting prospective partners. I was appreciative of that one lol. Another one was that she had to ask permission to play with someone else. That was largely symbolic as he always granted permission. The third was to not use his collar in BDSM play, which I found reasonable (she had a solid metal ring she had to wear at all times that appeared to be a necklace to the outside world).

So there is a place for rules in BDSM relationships that intersect with poly, but care should be given that they are ethical. I've seen situations where a couple opens up their marriage and one of them discovers they like being submissive. However, their (IMO) unethical Dominant may start to impose rules on their other relationships. The sub is experiencing two forms of NRE, one being with a new partner, the other being with a new lifestyle. I think the OP's wife is experiencing both of those, but it doesn't sound like she is being taken advantage of.

As Seasoned pointed out, this sort of thing isn't exclusive to BDSM. BDSM just adds another layer to it.

I hope that explained my position more clearly even though I got lost in nostalgia for a minute lol.
 
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Galagirl you are hitting some very valid things that are really close to home for me (it's a good thing).

So for the background questions:
I do suffer from moderate PTSD, Anxiety, and Major Depressive Disorder (the first two due to military service, the third due to incidents before and during military service). They are all controlled through medications and occasional therapy. While I have a good grasp on all three, yes - they are still there. I do have to concede to the points that, as much as I'd like to deny or dismiss it - they are probably playing a part (a much larger part) than I'd care to admit. I had testosterone issues the last few years in the military. They treated it, it was working great but then they became worried about my prostate numbers. They did a biopsy which came back negative, but I got a very bad infection because of the procedure (hospitalized for almost a week). So they stopped it. After I got out of the military, gained a little weight, had zero drive and motivation, the VA (now in charge of my medical care) wanted to play with the meds a bit (didn't work out well) so after a few months we ended up back on the meds that worked...but I was already heading downhill pretty fast sexually. The now long distance GF and I still talk often, we are very much in love, but she's too long distance to have any physical connection with. Plus she has her needs, so she's trying to date and move on with her life. I wouldn't want it any other way. I equally want her happy as I do my wife.

To answer your blues:
2) Yes, I do want to share sex with her again..but my issue now is that I don't want to share BORING sex with her. When she opened those floodgates and told me everything, the excitement on her face was so evident. As we talked, when we were on that subject, I could tell she was trying to tone it down for my sake, but she still had this look about her. It's something I want to have with her too.

Yes, you hit it square on the head. If I stop my testosterone, I do believe my libido will go back down, my interest will become non-existent, my indifference will return, and she can continue doing this and I won't be causing her so much grief (as I have this past week). She gets her sexual needs and wants taken care of elsewhere, and I'm back to being celibate/non-confrontational hubby. Everything else in our marriage is great. So...it is a consideration/sacrifice(?) I am willing to undertake for the sake of peace.

The happy marriage thing...hard to answer. She was worried and upset because my sex drive was gone. When her drive was gone for 10 years or so, mine was roaring. Hers came back with a vengeance, mine left with a vengeance. So I can see in her eyes how it was extremely uncharacteristic of me. She truly did want it back, but again...I don't think she looked into the future of pushing me to get it back while telling someone that he had her all to himself. So now she's torn on what to do (she made commitments and promises to us both), and even I am torn (because I believe I am a nice person and I don't want him to be betrayed or felt lied to or otherwise wronged). I was at a point back in Dec/Jan where the thought of sex was actually disgusting me. So not having a sex life, for ME, was already getting ingrained in my head as perfectly ok. For ME, it wouldn't have affected the marriage. For her? Yes, now - it would...BUT...she's also getting needs met elsewhere and in some great and kinky and thrilling ways. So me being me, I am like "well what's the problem". Her being her (caring for and about me) says "That's not a solution".

For #3, I don't know if we can consider it practice sharing her with others or not, but we did toy with the cuckold lifestyle a bit. Nothing was ever long term though (being in the military), so no real relationships ever bloomed from it. Most were very very short term FWBs deals...but I did get to watch, get the play the part of the denied/humiliated cuck and she played her hotwife role as best she could, and I (having a sex drive) would go through that "reclaim" process after her "bull" left/she came home. As far as poly goes, this dom and her - this is her TRUE first relationship with someone besides me. Here's where my waters get murky on it all. 1) In the cuck sense, I never thought I'd have a problem with her having a long term relationship (sexual and/or romantic) with another man (or woman). I never felt a single twinge of jealousy or worry or stress, but in the cuck sense I was there (physically, psychologically, emotionally) at the start and then it evolved gradually from all three of us to eventually the two of them. I was ok with that...even turned on. I think I am STILL ok with that. That didn't happen here obviously because I checked out and told her to go forward. This doesn't have the cuck kink, nor does it have a romantic relationship. It is something totally different. It's a relationship, and on that side of it I am still ok with it. It's the type of relationship that threw me into a tornado of emotions, especially how she detailed it as "can't do it with you".

For #4, this isn't as much her fault as it is mine. She was always used to coming home from encounters or "dates" and we'd get in bed, she'd tell me all her dirty details of that date, and we'd get it on pretty hot and heavy. In this case, I didn't want details. I didn't want any knowledge. I was angry. I had zero interest in sex, so hearing about it just reminded me that I had no interest in sex. I told her NOT to tell me....then I told her months later (last weekend) TO tell me. Neither of us expected my reactions. She told me EVERYTHING. I wanted to hear EVERYTHING at that moment (because, holy shit - I have a sex drive! Catch me up!). So she did what she thought was what I wanted. I had her do what I thought I wanted. It just became too overwhelming (oh you like smoking a cigarette...well here, smoke this whole carton right now).

So that's where we at on #4. We are talking and trying to figure out how to foster new connections. It's almost like we have to start completely over. I got so used to NOT getting sex from her for so long (thus a lot of masturbation), to finally getting some sex with another woman for a very short time (until she had to move away), back to no sex and a lot of masturbation again. Then, when her drive came back, mine died...so I was still pretty sexless (only this time it was because of me and my thought of staying that way). One thing I asked her this, and it hurt her, and I felt like crap saying it...but in my mind it was a legitimate question at the time: "Do you really believe we can ever have a happy sex life together?", and I told her my answer to that was no. Hers was dead for SO LONG, and while we found out how to make mine work much faster...it also means we know how to make it not work. So if we are to have a sex life, we do need to pretty much learn each other all over again.

Finally - yes, my depression talks a lot BUT I also actually believe what I say there in a "face reality" sense. I am not ugly. I'm probably above average. I am not HOT. I am good looking enough and when I am social, I can be the life of the party...but I was never the type of guy that could have his pick. I am not the type that gets a lot of right swipes on dating apps (even if my profile doesn't mention I am married, and I hate doing that so most of the time it does). My wife shows me what she gets matched with on her dating apps, and yea - she's matching with some high level hunks. Maybe that is another thing about it. Her trainer, obviously, is a stud (professional body builder, really good looking). Her dom works out constantly, so he has some serious muscle definition and he's also very good looking. Girls flock to him all the time. Me? I never had that level of muscle definition even when I was in the best shape of my life. I worked out a lot of work, but I only did it for work (when I was in the military). It wasn't anything I ever enjoyed. It was WORK. It became a relief to not have to do that stuff anymore. My physical injury prevents me from doing sports I used to like (football, softball, even golfing), so I do realize I will NEVER have a toned definition. I need to control my weight with dieting (and for the most part I do well enough, but I am still a total dad-bod).
That's why I get irritated whenever I get told by my wife, or my long distance GF, or others to "just go find someone else". My wife, to find someone else, needed to swipe right a few times then had meet/greets at a bar lined up for days. My gf - same thing. Just finding someone else, for ME...nowhere close to that easy. Just the opposite, it has been damn near impossible.

So yes, a lot of depression talking and obvious self-esteem issues, but there is the reality of it all too. Even when I wasn't depressed, or as depressed, it never happened the way so many people act like it should because it does for them.

Wow Gala. I'm sorry for the book...but WOW. You have to be some sort of counselor, lol. Thank you.
 
To Vinsanity though, I do take concern with what you said of: "Go find someone that does". If it is as easy for you as you advise, I am truly very happy for you. That is something to be very proud of, as it is an ability many would die for. I am in my late 40s now. I'm not a gym rat fitness type, I shave my head bald because the hair thing stopped working for me. I'm tall. I'm in good enough shape to be healthy. I am not ugly by any means...but just going out to find someone isn't something that has ever worked well for me. I can post ads, I can go to socials and mixers, I can get friend zoned in a heartbeat. I'm not everyone's cup of tea...and I am OK with that. My wife is a damned hottie (when we met, when she put on weight, and now with her weight loss - always the head turner). My last girlfriend (who is still in my life but lives to far for us to really have a relationship) is a hottie and head turner also. She also hates anal and has no interest in dom/sub or other stuff. We connect on other levels anyways. So I got lucky with two wonderful women.

If I go my entire life without having a woman that enjoys anal ever again, I am not going to consider my life ruined. That's not even really the point of my post. It was the sudden change, the new interests, and the automatic "not for you" mentality. It came as such a shock because that is just something I would never, ever say to her and she never said to me in the past. That's what I think this is really about and why I reached out for input (and while I didn't agree with that one particular point of your input, I appreciated it ALL!).

I understand it is not as easy as it sounds. I've been extremely lucky myself. I've also had a run of bad luck, especially these last few years. I'm a 57 year old long haired hippy dude who doesn't work out at all and has strange sexual proclivities. I think you are better off than me lol. I just never give up hope, though I've been close a few times. But my point is to enjoy what you have with whoever you are with at the time. Focus on what you have, not what you don't have. Again, I realize that can be easier said than done.
 
You'll find an agreement here, and in the larger cyberdating world, that women have an easier time getting dates and sex. But we women have just as much difficulty finding a truly loving relationship, especially in poly land, as men do.

Even your wife (who still needs a nickname please, to respect her selfhood), suspects she's just one in a long line of subs for her current Dom, and he will probably, sooner rather than later, tire of her and move on to the next sub.

Subs are a dime a dozen. Good Doms are more rare. Everyone is lazy and wants to be bossed around! lol

And he may not be a "good" Dom. He might turn out to be a Dom-ass, as I call them.

Whereas you, bald head and dad bod and all, have been with her for a decade or more, tried and true blue. And you've got a good hard decent sized cock. And you wanna fuck! So, go fuck her.

Believe me, just because she has this Dom, doesn't mean her "needs are met." Having sex with one of your lovers does not mean you don't still desire your other lover. I speak from experience!

And if you do neglect an established lover to only have sex with Mr New and Shiny, you're being an asshole.

Go get her.
 
Just to give you some hope—I used to be like your wife when it comes to butt-secks—been there, done that, got the T-shirt, etc.—then I got interested in it with one of my boyfriends, and I actually ended up liking it better with my husband (who has a really big dick, too), after all. Actually I liked it even more with my dildo which is even bigger than my husband :eek:, lol, but YMMV. Don't give up hope, but don't pressure her of course. She may yet come around to you in that regard.
 
Thank you for more info. I hope you fee a bit better writing things out.

Glad it helped some. Not a counselor. Just try to listen to people.

I do suffer from moderate PTSD, Anxiety, and Major Depressive Disorder (the first two due to military service, the third due to incidents before and during military service). They are all controlled through medications and occasional therapy. While I have a good grasp on all three, yes - they are still there.

I hope you are getting those seen to ok. Glad you considered how much they might color this.

Yes, I do want to share sex with her again..but my issue now is that I don't want to share BORING sex with her.

What are you each doing to revitalize your married sex life that is NOT kink things? Reboot the excitement you share with each other? Get reacquainted again?

So...it is a consideration/sacrifice(?) I am willing to undertake for the sake of peace.

How does (checking back out) help (foster connection building with your wife?)

Does it occur to you that leaning IN rather than leaning AWAY would be more considerate of both of you if the goal is growing more connection with wife?

So now she's torn on what to do (she made commitments and promises to us both), and even I am torn (because I believe I am a nice person and I don't want him to be betrayed or felt lied to or otherwise wronged).

Things in Life happen that require promises and commitments to be updated.

Her feeling torn about her stuff? Her emotional management is her job. So are her choices about how to updated her commitments and promises.

Why are you worried about Dom's feelings and emotional management if she makes some choices in future? His emotional management is HIS job.

You could focus on dealing with your own emotional management with your NOW things. Rather than worrying about the other two's maybe FUTURE things.

How are you being nice to YOU when you do behavior like that? Skip/neglect doing your own emotional management in favor of spending your time and energy doing other people's job for them?

Does that behavior ADD to your stress load or TAKE AWAY from your load?

So me being me, I am like "well what's the problem". Her being her (caring for and about me) says "That's not a solution".

It isn't a solution because if she desires to be close and connected to you, and you want to go back to the “checked out no libido space?” That doesn't help anything.

Esp when you also tell her you want to be close and connected. It comes across like "I want to be close and connected... so long as I don't have to do work or make changes or feel things."

Also frustrating if she wants genuine connection with you through sharing sex and you call it a “pity fuck” because of your self esteem, depression or whatever.

Keep that up, and you may be at risk at damaging the relationship with her. Because she'll start to feel like dealing with you is dealing with the never ending black hole. Putting in all her energy with little to nothing back.

And your “solution” is to go further in the hole? Like it's some big favor or sacrifice you are doing for her? That's why I asked if your other conditions are well in management -- the PTSD, depression etc. ) Don't let your illness "drive" when you need to be the one driving.

She was always used to coming home from encounters or "dates" and we'd get in bed, she'd tell me all her dirty details of that date, and we'd get it on pretty hot and heavy.

In this case, I didn't want details. I didn't want any knowledge. I was angry. I had zero interest in sex, so hearing about it just reminded me that I had no interest in sex. I told her NOT to tell me.

...then I told her months later (last weekend) TO tell me. Neither of us expected my reactions. She told me EVERYTHING. I wanted to hear EVERYTHING at that moment (because, holy shit - I have a sex drive! Catch me up!). So she did what she thought was what I wanted. I had her do what I thought I wanted. It just became too overwhelming (oh you like smoking a cigarette...well here, smoke this whole carton right now).

Could both acknowledge that her in a BDSM thing is new to both of you. And dealing with it isn't going to work out like how you both dealt with her outside sex life in the past, because this is NOT like the past FWB casual sex stuff. It's another kind of thing.

You both could cut both of you a break for being newbies at this and making that mistake.

And when talking, tell her you want to hear but slow down the faucet. It is NOT like before. This is a new situation that DOES NOT turn you on here.

Could put a timer on for 10 min to think, 5 min each to speak and share whatever. Then say thanks. Then take a break to digest it.

Not her GUSHING all her NRE lalas at you.

Nor you GUSHING all your depression doom/anger out at her.

I can imagine this is hard and the temptation to throw hands in the air and go "Fine! Back to my hole I go!" is there. Because feeling numb is at least a familiar discomfort compared to this new discomfort. But I don't think that will serve you well.

You are actually going to have to talk first about HOW to talk together about this subject before you get to the talking. Like meta communication, info management. How much is TMI and how much is ok. THEN have the actual conversation.

So you both accept this BDSM side of her at the “Goldilocks” place. Not too much. Not too little. Just right. Not telling you so much TMI she overwhelms you. But maybe enough for you to know she's safe enough and she's being treated well.

Then set it aside to deal with the bigger problem of a long neglected marriage relationship due to various illness and making repair.

One thing I asked her this, and it hurt her, and I felt like crap saying it...but in my mind it was a legitimate question at the time: "Do you really believe we can ever have a happy sex life together?", and I told her my answer to that was no. Hers was dead for SO LONG, and while we found out how to make mine work much faster...it also means we know how to make it not work.

If you need reassurance, you could learn to ask for it with "I" statements.

"I feel lost. I need reassurance that you think we can get back to happy sex life. Could you please say kind words?"

There's enough problems without dealing with the problems that "you" statements can cause in a conversation.

Which brings up something else. Does she have the skills and patience to deal with you when Depression is in the driver's seat and talking blahblahblah? (I'm not minimizing your illness -- just trying not to write a novel. I do want to lift up that that's another stick on the fire -- Is she doing Spouse of Depression/PTSD support groups and whatnot? Cuz military life on its own brings a whole host of things to a marriage that non-military do not deal in.)

So if we are to have a sex life, we do need to pretty much learn each other all over again.

And this is horrible to you? Getting to know you wife again at THIS retirement stage of life? That's what long term companionship IS.

I'm not like I was in my 20s. Neither is my spouse. We've had to stay in touch and keep up with each over over the decades. As people and as lovers.

Pregnant sex? Was NOT like the sex before that. Sex with kids in the house? Not like before. And then perimenopause sex? That's not like the sex before that. Times of sex during medical things from surgery and stuff? Yup. Not like sex before that.

Loving him as young adults in college? Was a lot easier than loving him through the deep funk of his grief for the death of his mother in mid life. I've had moments where I've been no picnic myself.

Life is long. If you have a long term companion, changing to make new accommodations for whatever is going on (in sex or love) is gonna happen.

Let me try again on that other point. There is nothing wrong with a “dad bod.” I think there IS something wrong with you getting hung on whether or not you are “successful” at dating right now. You are "face reality" about your attractiveness. I am saying "Face THIS OTHER reality."

Because you have ENOUGH on your plate without adding that one to the pile. Say you had a hot gym bod and successful with dating tons of women. Then what? You still have not solved the problem of “more connection with my wife.” You don't solve "more connection with my wife" with "I go date other people."

People on forums will suggest all sorts of stuff but its on you to figure out which ideas are actually usable and which ones not so much. And not get hung up on it. Like chasing a new depression squirrel down a new hole. For what? Having depression sucks. It's not fun. Sometimes you have to learn to say "Thanks, new doom squirrel. But no thanks. I'm full today." And just be ok with the current load without piling on more.

When you have THIS much on your plate and you cannot solve all your “sads?” You might have to figure out how to REDUCE your load. And I think that dating one you could safely drop as "Doesn't even apply here right now, not wasting my spoons on it."

(You sound like a long term patient, so I assume you know about managing your spoons. )

If you were going to make a clear short list of your current load of “sads” what are they? In order of severity?

Because it if was like

40% A
30%B
20% C
10% D

Ok, fine. Getting rid of C and D still leaves you with 70% load, but at least it's lighter than 100% load. Right?

I encourage you to LEAN IN with your wife, and try to get rid of the loads you can just dump. Lighten the overwhelmed load. So you can weather out the storm a bit better.

Galagirl
 
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Well she saw the post (left open on my computer) and of course it's 90% anger because she feels I didn't tell the whole story (she could be right, but rereading it i think she's more upset that it was my perspective) and 10% hurt that I felt so negatively about her. Apparently though, since I said I didn't want to take that relationship away from her that also means no pause or time out so we can just finish fixing it. Now she doesn't feel we are ready to start having sex with each other because she's afraid when a round is done I could go into a negative tailspin and that would cause her all sorts of grief. Soooo, she still plans on spending the night with him later this week, and she doesn't want me to masterbate (she feels of she is the cause of my orgasms we can get synced up again). So keep sex drive. No sex. No release otherwise. Deal with her getting sex. I can't win.

We never had these level of issues when her drive was gone for the extreme length of time. Mine was gone less than a year. I have no idea what to do. We have to stop talking about it because we're that exhausted and stressed. She will not pause or take a small break with this guy. She is 100% certain he will end it. So she says. I have trouble buying that he is that unreasonable given how highly she speaks of him. If I do put my foot down to end it, she will resent me. If I don't, I think I will resent her for putting this fantasy life before our marriage.
You know, I'd probably deal with this either easier or in a different light if she admitted she was in love with him. She denies it vehemently.
So that's where we are at. Thanks for your help all.
 
Well she saw the post (left open on my computer) and of course it's 90% anger because she feels I didn't tell the whole story (she could be right, but rereading it i think she's more upset that it was my perspective) and 10% hurt that I felt so negatively about her.

Well... it is your side of the story. And on your side you are hurt and feel negatively. It is what it is. Sometimes you just are gonna feel ugh stuff. There's no need for her to get all tangled up in your feelings or your experience of this.

If she's been hard to talk to lately, and you chose to talk on some forums to get help anonymously... what's she mad about? That you are trying?

We have to stop talking about it because we're that exhausted and stressed.

Could take a break.

1) So she cools off.

2) So you can cool off.

3) Learn to talk about this in installments rather than trying to solve it in long marathon sessions. Like "we talk about this for 30-60 min on Friday night. Only then. "

So in between the talks, you have some "normal life" happening together. Like having dinner, watching a movie, folding laundry, etc.

If talking on your own is hard, find out if you can do teleconference with a marriage counselor and/or sex counselor maybe.

Apparently though, since I said I didn't want to take that relationship away from her that also means no pause or time out so we can just finish fixing it.

She is in charge of her calendar. What exactly is stopping her from setting time on her calendar?

  • Like day 1 for taking care of herself?
  • Day 2 for talking to you about problems?
  • Day 3 for a date with you NOT talking about problems?
  • Day 4 dates with Dude?
  • Day 5 for friends / family?

Does she have poor time management?

Now she doesn't feel we are ready to start having sex with each other because she's afraid when a round is done I could go into a negative tailspin and that would cause her all sorts of grief.

What? That seems convoluted.

She is not going to share sex with you because she's afraid you will feel moody and then that will make her feel sad. She doesn't want to be sad. So she's not going to share sex so you don't get moody and make her feel sad.

Might be more emotionally honest if she just said she doesn't want to share sex right now because she's mad after reading the posts on your computer. Like OWN her own feelings. Rather than pass the buck on to you.

Soooo, she still plans on spending the night with him later this week, and she doesn't want me to masterbate (she feels of she is the cause of my orgasms we can get synced up again). So keep sex drive. No sex. No release otherwise. Deal with her getting sex. I can't win.

It works both ways. You do not own her body. She does not own yours.

If you feel like masturbating -- go ahead.

She will not pause or take a small break with this guy. She is 100% certain he will end it. So she says. I have trouble buying that he is that unreasonable given how highly she speaks of him. If I do put my foot down to end it, she will resent me. If I don't, I think I will resent her for putting this fantasy life before our marriage.

I think you could set everything about Dude to the side. Whether she dates him or not is not the problem at the moment. The problem is that she won't make time on her schedule for the marriage.

Tell her what she does with Dude is her business. Ask for time on her calendar for a) fun dates for just you and her and b) times to talk about solving problems.

If she's neglecting the marriage/taking you for granted? Then that has nothing to do with Dude. I mean, she could be obsessed with bowling or tennis and be neglecting the marriage. It's not participating in the other activity... it's the neglecting the marriage part. Right?

You know, I'd probably deal with this either easier or in a different light if she admitted she was in love with him. She denies it vehemently.

I get that. Like you could understand if she was in love and all lalala twitterpated and not making sense from that. But to neglect the marriage for a guy she thinks is gonna dump her that she's not in love with? That rankles.

If she's not in the habit of being emotionally honest, maybe she IS in love with him but not ready to own it. If it makes it easier on you to believe that? Go ahead. Believe it. Make it easier on you. If it turns out you were wrong about that later? So what? At least it made it easier for you in the moment.

It sounds like poly hell to the max, but in a BDSM flavor. But it's the same sort of demotion, displacement, intrusion, etc.

She might be all lalala twitterpated over BDSM. Like not even Dude matters -- it's discovering this new thing, the BDSM part. But that is neither here nor there. Again... it could be an obsession with bowling or tennis. It just happens to be an obsession with BDSM.

If she doesn't pay some attention to her marriage, that neglect could damage the marriage.

Hopefully she gets over her upset from her reading your posts and becomes more willing to set time on her calendar to try again to talk things out.

Galagirl
 
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Well she saw the post (left open on my computer).

Good! Try leaving more pages open on your computer so she can see. I'm kinda serious. I think seeing this conversation probably gave her a lot of insight into your thoughts and feelings. And seeing the responses was probably a kick in the pants for her, a needed one, imo.

[She is feeling] 90% anger because she [thinks] I didn't tell the whole story ([but] I think she's more upset that it was my perspective) and 10% hurt that I feel so negatively about her.

Anger is a cover-up emotion for fear, or other true emotions. Usually there is something underneath anger, or jealousy. Usually it's fear of change, fear of loss.

It kinda sounds to me like she's getting a little "domly" with you. Maybe she thinks she can boss you around like her Dom bosses her. Oddly, military men are often submissive in relationships, since they have to be so decisive and fearless in combat. Check that out. Are you letting her tell you what to do, and even how to feel?

Apparently though, since I said I didn't want to take that relationship away from her...

You can't. That is called a veto. And I don't think you have a veto agreement in place. And even if you do, you already know how that would backfire. You don't own her, so you can't tell her what to do. You can only make your opinions, needs, desires known, and request she meet them. She can refuse (which would be very telling), or she can agree and negotiate meeting them with you.

... that also means no pause or time out so we can just finish fixing it.

That's her her idea (not taking a break to be with you) and you acceding to her wishes, submissively.

Stand up, man. Ask for what you need. Do the work. Lean in. Do you think she's worth fighting for?

Note my edits in the next paragraph.

Now she doesn't [think] we are ready to start having sex with each other, because she's afraid when a round is done I could go into a negative tailspin, and that would cause her all sorts of grief. So... she still plans on spending the night with him later this week.

And she doesn't want me to masturbate (she [thinks] if she is the cause of my orgasms we can get synced up again). So [I should] keep [my] sex drive [unfulfilled]. No sex. No release otherwise. [She says I should just] deal with her getting sex.

I can't win.

She doesn't get to tell you to not masturbate. Maybe her Dom has given her rules about when or if she can masturbate. Because that's just a very odd attitude and idea.

You sound defeated. You are tired. Maybe you aren't sleeping, eating well, exercising. And everything is fucked up with the lockdown too.

Take care of yourself. Do what makes you feel good and feel healthy. If that includes masturbating 3 times a day, fucking do it. Enjoy yourself! Leave your porn site open on the computer. Buy a Fleshlight and let it sit on the coffee table. :D ;) Again, I'm not entirely kidding.

Maybe you'll make her jealous! Good. Shake her up. Be in her face.

We never had these level of issues when her drive was gone for the extreme length of time. Mine was gone less than a year. I have no idea what to do.

You're doing something by getting advice here. You could also read up on BDSM, power exchange, kink. I think you said you joined Fetlife? That's a great resource. There are also great books you can order online, for your Kindle or actual books. Look up the topic on Amazon.

By the way, I was thinking about you the other night. And I thought that just because she is currently enmeshed in this power exchange thing, does not mean you and she can't do kinky things to increase the excitement of your sex life. As I said to buy sex toys, be obvious when you use porn, you could also look into kinky things you enjoy, and display these ideas in one way or another. You don't need to have long drawn out conversations about it. But for you own good (and possible future benefit, especially if her Dom does dump her) you could prepare.

We have to stop talking about it because we're that exhausted and stressed. She will not pause or take a small break with this guy.

That really sucks. That is NRE at its worst. Gala said it's poly hell, and she's right.

She is 100% certain he will end it. So she says. I have trouble buying that he is that unreasonable, given how highly she speaks of him.

Maybe he will though, and she wants to get all the kink she can as fast as possible. I could understand if that was the case. It's not attractive, but it could be possible.

If I do put my foot down to end it, she will resent me. If I don't, I think I will resent her for putting this fantasy life before our marriage.

It's not a fantasy life though. It is the blossoming of her sexuality, and a big change in her life. It does suck that it's coming at the total expense of your marriage, though! That hurts like nothing else! It's just gut wrenching and so destructive to your ego and self image and esteem, to see your trusted spouse becoming a totally different person.

I experienced that when my ex husband was in NRE when we first opened our relationship. It's just so weird! You feel baseless, lost. Everything you believed in or thought you knew seems to be based on lies.

You know, I'd probably deal with this either easier or in a different light if she admitted she was in love with him. She denies it vehemently.

Whether it's "love" or not, meh. What is love, anyway? It takes time for love to grow, and going through experiences both bad and good. She's definitely definitely infatuated, both with him and with the power exchange. That's enough. NRE can be so overwhelming the first couple times you feel it. NRE is based on an illusion, and on powerful hormones. You can read up on it and learn more about how to deal with it.
 
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