Accidental Poly Husband - Wife Full of Angst

JanetDammit

New member
There is a lot of backstory to this that I feel is relevant to my situation, so this is going to be very long. I am the wife. We've been in a mono married relationship over 30 years but much of it was platonic. (We hadn't had sex in about 15 yrs.) Although Brad has always loved me and been very dedicated and loyal (and patient), his self-esteem became very low. I recently found out that he had suspected that I had had affairs. It was not true; his imagination was simply fueled by that low self-esteem.

About 3 yrs ago, Brad told me that he hadn't planned on it but had fallen in love with someone else. He told me that he still was devoted to me, hadn't consummated anything and wouldn't pursue it if I was not ok with it. It was a shock, but since I'd been familiar with the concept of poly relationships and knew of some successful (and some not so successful) ones, I told him it that it was possible to love more than one person romantically.

We spent a lot of time discussing what would/could happen next. I listened to many podcast about poly. I got to know Maggie via skype and messaging a little more. After much contemplation and soul searching, I told them both that I had decided that I was ok with them getting intimate. Honestly, my mindset at the time was that because I just couldn't emotionally handle sex, maybe she could fulfill that for him and it would take the pressure off of me.

Shortly after that though, I had an epiphany that I think was partially induced by the thought that even though I had secretly thought it would be nice for Brad to have someone else to fulfill his sexual needs, the reality of that set in. The other thing that had brought it about was a report that had been all over the news about an older brother admitting that he had sexually assaulted his sisters. I suddenly realized that my aversion to sex had been building up due to a sexual assault on me when I was 12. I had buried the memory. After this realization, I took steps to work through the emotional trauma of it and swiftly began to regain my sexuality. Some of this was with the help of Maggie who had been a rape counselor. Brad and I began having enjoyable sex on a regular basis and this was all before he and Maggie had sex. Even so, I thought I was still ok with their relationship continuing.

Fast forward and because of some financial issues, she picked up and moved into our house. We had all discussed it and agreed to it and thought that as grown 50-something adults we could be mature enough to handle this big change. Wrong. Too much, too soon. After 2 months, we asked her to move out, but we offered a rental house we luckily had available. During that 2 month period, I watched Brad start smoking heavily (he had been a non-smoker for many years), lose sleep, and just be all around stressed all of the time. When we were alone, Brad would vent to me about how Maggie was acting and what she was saying, and it probably tainted my attitude toward her. After she moved out, they were continuing to see each other, but I didn't really want to have much to do with her. He was still coming home to vent to me about her and the situation.

At the beginning of this whole poly thing, they had agreed that if I wasn't good with their relationship, I had veto power to shut it down. Well, after a heated texting conversation between the two of them, I had finally had enough (It wasn't the first). I had been getting the feeling for weeks that he really wanted me to cut if off and he admits now that he was relieved when I did.

They both went through a mourning period and then started talking to each other. As Brad tells me, they began actually communicating, admitting their mistakes, working through how they have different ways of expressing themselves. Brad and I talked as well. We all admitted that we all made mistakes. Now Maggie feels that she didn't get a chance for their relationship to work. Brad would like to try again too since he still loves her. It's all up to me because he says he won't do anything that would jeopardize our relationship.

They occasionally have lunch together, they still message each other and send "Love" stickers. He hasn't hid any of that from me and I don't want to ask him to stop doing it. I know I can't ask him to stop loving her, but I just can't bring myself to say I'm ok with them getting intimate again.

I know that much of her bad behavior while she was living with us was due to the stress of it all. I honestly can sympathize. I would probably have been just as crazy. But I've seen her ugly side, I just can't like her anymore. I also don't want to see Brad in turmoil again so I'm being protective. I know that I didn't communicate well with her, but in the beginning much of that was me trying not to make waves and mess up their relationship. Brad has taken most of the blame for all of the miscommunication and realizes that he shouldn't have been a mediator when she and I should have been talking directly. Am I jealous too? As much as it pains me, because I typically don't get jealous, I have to admit that it is a factor as well. Would I be as jealous if I liked her? I don't think so. I was able to have compersion for them even when she was living with us and he was spending the night in her room before it all went south.

I am suspicious by nature. I believe that Brad is in love with Maggie but I question how it all came about. He had low self-esteem, she paid attention to him, she's pretty and shapely, and he wasn't having sex or even intimacy with me. I think it opened him up to allowing it to happen. Maggie is always sure to physically present herself in a way that seems she has on a facade and she has a personality type they I have never really meshed with. She's on the high end of the extrovert spectrum and I am at the high end of introvert. Even though we're at opposite end, we are both alpha females. I don't understand her and therefore skeptical of her love for him. I know that isn't very logical, but I just can't trust her. I am eternally grateful for her helping me work through my sexual trauma, and the whole shock of the poly thing, but I still can't trust her.

I am really torn about them getting back together again. He won't do it without my blessing. If I love him I should set him free. If I set him free I will be... I don't know, but it's currently causing me angst and sleepless nights.

I didn't ask to be part of a poly relationship, but I allowed it. Because I allowed it, is it fair for me to now want to close our relationship? Even though I thought I was evolved enough to be open to it, maybe I'm not really. What do you experienced poly people think?
 
I am sorry for your situation. I'm a mono (former almost poly) who enjoys the discussions on this board, and cannot really offer any advice in your particular situation. But I wanted to let you know that I empathize.

One thing I MUST state though; accepting poly does NOT mean you are more "evolved." You have enough negative self-talk going on right now and you don't need to burden yourself with fallacies.

The others will be along shortly!
 
I'm sorry to hear you have been through so much. FWIW, here is my opinion...

At the beginning of this whole poly thing, they had agreed that if I wasn't good with their relationship, I had veto power to shut it down.

And you agreed to this? Was this a 3 person yes, or this role being foisted on you by the other two? Why do you have to be responsible for EVERYONE? Rather than just be responsible for your own self? :confused:

I think you could just be responsible for just YOU. State where your willingness lies. Every person could speak up for their own self, and then the group can sort what lines up and what does not.

You already tried it once. It doesn't sound like it was your cup of tea. You don't want to do it again. At this time, your preferences seem to be

  • 1st choice: You want to be in a Closed marriage.
  • 2nd Choice: You will learn to deal with breaking up with him.

I think you could speak your truth PLAIN. Then let DH figure out where his own willingness lies. If he wants to stay Closed, or if he wants to disband so he can be free TO pursue Maggie.

Both ways make it so you can remain free FROM anything poly and free FROM dealing with Maggie, a person you dislike. Be responsible for YOUR choices. State your willingness because he cannot be a mind reader.

After that? Expect him be responsible for his own choices.

I don't like it when people put their responsibilities on me. And talk like "I can't do that because Galagirl won't let me" as if I am their mom.

When really it is "I don't want to do that. But I don't want to sound mean or like the bad guy. So I blameshift on to Galagirl like she's the one preventing me. I make excuses in order to avoid taking personal responsibility for my behavior choices."

Is something like that happening here? :confused: You are being turned into the "parent" of the group and they get to be the responsibility free "kids?" Rather then it being 3 adults in the group, each one responsible for their own choices/actions?


I didn't ask to be part of a poly relationship, but I allowed it. Because I allowed it, is it fair for me to now want to close our relationship?

Yes. It is fair to change your mind and want to do Closed now. You are allowed to change your mind. Having done something once doesn't mean you are locked into doing it forever. Maybe looking at these consent cartoons help clarify that for you some.

https://www.boredpanda.com/consent-rape-comics-alli-kerkham/

Your initial consent and continuing consent to participate in things belongs to YOU. You could not consent to do anything in a half-hearted, passive way. Be firm FOR it. Or just don't do it. Be more decisive with your initial consent. Then if over time you learn new stuff or find a situation doesn't work out? Be ok NOT giving your continuing consent. It's ok to bow out.

Even though I thought I was evolved enough to be open to it, maybe I'm not really. What do you experienced poly people think?

I don't think it has anything to do with "evolved enough." Are you being your own self bully with talk like that?

You are allowed to prefer the relationship shapes you like best. You are also allowed to like/dislike the people you like/dislike. And both those things are allowed to change over time or after learning new information. It could be you just like Closed better. It could be you are up for Poly, but not with THESE people who bicker and fight like that and then turn you in the mom of the group. Only you know what you are/are not up for.

If I had to guess? You sound like you tried something. Had a learning experience. Some good came of it -- healing from past trauma. Some ugh/meh came out of it -- dealing with all their roller coaster and moving her in too soon. You don't have to be her "rescuers." Some new realizations came out of it -- that maybe you aren't as into doing poly as you first thought or not into poly like this with these specific people.

Net result sounds like -- "Ok, I had a learning experience but no need or desire to repeat it." #6 on the link above.

People cannot be mind readers. It is your responsibility to clearly state where you currently stand. At this time it sounds like you stand at "No. I don't want to do that again." So state it.

When we were alone, Brad would vent to me about how Maggie was acting and what she was saying, and it probably tainted my attitude toward her.

Why's he oversharing to you? Esp since you are IN the system? He could talk his problems with Maggie out with Maggie herself or with someone else OUTSIDE the system. It would stink if your relationship becomes "talk about their relationship" all the time. When does your OWN relationship with him get to happen? :confused:

I had been getting the feeling for weeks that he really wanted me to cut if off and he admits now that he was relieved when I did.

Why are you doing his break up jobs for him? If he was unhappy he could do his own breakups directly.

I don't blame you for not wanting to start this all up again. It sounded like a drag.

I think you could say "No, thanks. I prefer Closed marriage. If we need to break up so you can be free TO pursue Maggie and I can remain free FROM poly stuff I do not want? I don't love that choice. But if that's the conversation we have to have? Then I'm willing to have it."

State where you stand.

Expect him to state where he stands.

Then sort it out and let the chips fall where they may.

Galagirl
 
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Hello JanetDammit,

I am thinking that your best route would be to go by what you *want* in this situation. Do you *want* to be okay with Maggie? Do you *want* to be okay with Brad and Maggie getting back together again? because if your heart's not in it, there's probably no way you can transition into being okay with those things.

If you do want to be okay with Maggie, then it might be possible to accomplish that by you spending some time with her just you and her, going out and doing something fun, getting to know her better as a friend, getting better acquainted with her positive side. It's not guaranteed that will work, but it's conceivable. Certainly you should not try it if you don't really want to be her friend.

Ask yourself, "Do I really want this do work? Do I really want poly to work? Do I want poly to work with this particular individual (Maggie)? with these particular individuals (Brad and Maggie)?" If that's not something you really want at this time, then I would say don't try to pursue it. Just be honest with Brad and tell him you don't want him to get back together with Maggie. And leave it at that, let there be an end to it.

Those at any rate are my initial thoughts.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Hi, Janet.

The short version (something I don't do much ;)) is that Brad is NOT "in love with" Maggie, but rather clinging to an idealized somewhat Maggie-like image. When faced with the day-to-day reality, he wigged out from the cognitive dissonance of trying to wedge the fantasy into that.

And he/they are both being highly irresponsible to continually dangle the "veto" at you. IMO, you most certainly DID NOT separate them with a veto -- rather, you saw them become ridiculously childish, bickering constantly, & you sent them to their rooms because it was giving you a headache. ("he really wanted me to cut if off and he admits now that he was relieved when I did.") So, you've been made BOTH the authority figure AND the villain in this little melodrama.

Get Maggie out of ALL your property, ASAP. (You don't need to be at all mean about it.) Firstly, it is certainly NOT the responsibility of you &/or Brad to bail Maggie out for her little "financial issues." If she does not have family & friends willing to help her out ("temporarily," of course), then you MUST ask yourself whether she's burned all her previous bridges, & what that portends for YOU.

And bless you for seizing hold of your old damage & taking steps to heal!! But it raises a thought: what happens as your desire for closeness with a man you love increases (sex &/or affection) but Brad is still swinging bipolar, either giddy about Maggie or pissed off about Maggie, little between to share with you? If he's unwilling to do HIS homework & take steps to fix himself, might you be interested in following Brad's example & finding someone who is willing to be there for you? How long are you willing to beat down your desires to support Brad chasing the Maggie ghost?
 
Thanks for all of the insights.

To Galagirl: Quote:
I said: At the beginning of this whole poly thing, they had agreed that if I wasn't good with their relationship, I had veto power to shut it down.
Galagirl said: And you agreed to this? Was this a 3 person yes, or this role being foisted on you by the other two? Why do you have to be responsible for EVERYONE? Rather than just be responsible for your own self?
My answer: She had never been poly either, but she fell in love with Brad. Initially, she also had a primary BF, but they broke up before she move in with us. The two of them had come up with this veto thing - her BF or I could veto. I hadn't planned on using it. When everything went south and Brad was coming apart emotionally with all of the stress, I used the veto.

This isn't a typically poly. Brad is only committed to me and to her. He's not looking to date others. Maggie is not interested in dating others. I'm not interested in dating others. I suppose you could describe it as a closed V.

Brad has stated that he will not leave me, even for her. So he has told me that it is up to me to "allow" him to date Maggie. I resent being put in that situation and recently told him that is his choice, not mine.

To kdt26417: I do want my husband to be happy. Not being able to have an intimate relationship with Maggie makes him sad, although he says he can deal with it. I feel like I can be a selfish person, so I might be too hard on myself for feeling like I'm being selfish about not wanting him to be with her. I know I have the right to be happy too but doesn't there need to be compromise at times?

Ravenscroft: Thank you for saying what you did about the "veto". It gave me a chuckle. You're right - they were being very childish. And yes, I guess I'm being made the villain to some extent, because in their minds, I hold the so-called power to decide their future together.

I appreciate all of your input. :)
 
Brad has stated that he will not leave me, even for her. So he has told me that it is up to me to "allow" him to date Maggie. I resent being put in that situation and recently told him that is his choice, not mine.

Meh. I dislike passive relating like that. :mad:

But it might be more efficient to solve your angst by accepting the unwanted role this one time, be President of All, and just say "Ok, don't date her." There. Solved. No more angst for YOU in your emotional management.

And leave him to cope with his own feelings about it.

Later work on how he frames things -- this "allow him" stuff that you don't like. Ask him to stop framing things like you are his boss, parent, or caretaker. Deal with one thing at a time.

I do want my husband to be happy.

I believe feelings ensue after behavior. Either action behavior or thinking behavior.

If he gives away his choices for you to make for him? (Action behavior)

And then he doesn't like what you pick out because he secretly wanted something else and wanted you to mind reader it? And your inability/unwillingness to mind reader makes him sad? (Feelings that ensue)

He could learn from that. He could change his expectations to more reasonable/rational ones:
  • He could start making his choices himself.
  • He could stop expecting you to mind reader and state his things clearly.

Not being able to have an intimate relationship with Maggie makes him sad, although he says he can deal with it.

Could believe him that he can deal with it. Take him at face value.

My MIL used to expect mind readering. She would say one thing and if people did not guess the "right" answer, you'd be in the dog house with her and she'd snub you, silent treatment and other stuff. Passive aggressive BS.

My husband started taking her at face value after I complained that our family was inconvenienced by her many times. She was in hospital once and he offered to come visit that night after work. She said "No, weekend is fine." So we saw her on the weekend. She was mad he was the only adult kid not to show up that night -- his other siblings "read between the lines" and showed up.

He told her he had offered to come that night. That she said no and the weekend was fine. He believed her. Tried to honor her preference. Here he was with his branch of the family on the weekend. Now she was mad at HIM because she lied to him and gave false info. If she wanted something different, he expected her to say what she really wanted the first time. So he was going to ask. Did she want him to stay for the weekend visit? Or go away? Because he was going do what she said.

She didn't like being called on her poor behavior.

But she did shape it up with him from then on and started speaking more plain. She stopped the passive aggressive BS with him and their relationship improved as a result.

All while she continued to do the mind reader thing with his siblings and do the passive/aggressive thing with them. :rolleyes:

I think you could take husband at face value. Keep it easier on you. Let natural consequences follow like my husband did with his mother. She said weekend, he went on weekend. Natural consequences.

Your DH says he can deal with it if you say no? Ok. Say no and let him deal with it. Natural consequences. How is believing him at his Word you being selfish?

I feel like I can be a selfish person, so I might be too hard on myself for feeling like I'm being selfish about not wanting him to be with her. I know I have the right to be happy too but doesn't there need to be compromise at times?

It is one thing to come to compromise. Like splitting the last popsicle so you both get some now. Then do grocery later tonight and have another then.

It is another thing to compromise your values, and subsume yourself to the relationship. Do stuff that hurts you to try to please others. You have to be able to say "No. I love you a lot. But not even for you will I do stuff that hurts me or goes against my own grain. I have to love me too."

Doing what YOU need to stay mentally/emotionally healthy is you doing your self care. That is not being selfish. You are not obligated to be up for everything your spouse is up for. You don't have to be joined at the hip -- you can be a couple and at the same time, individual people with your OWN preferences.


  • Selfish = mememe! All about me! I ignore other people and their needs.

  • Selfless = themthemthem! All about them! I ignore my own needs.

  • Self Full = I meet my needs and do my self care FIRST so I don't burn out and I can operate from a full tank of gas. Then I can gift my help to others in meeting their rational and reasonable needs. I consider my needs and other people needs in a healthy, balanced way. (<-- all people could do this.)

I do not think my spouse making me responsible for him and his choices is a reasonable or rational request. He's healthy. He's not my child. I don't have to be his parent. He's not impaired He's not my patient where I have to be making all the caregiver choices for him because he is temporarily incapacitated -- what clothes he wears today, what food he eats today, when he takes his meds, when to toilet him, etc.

I think a healthy Closed V happens at the consent of all 3 people. Not 2 yes and 1 dragged along against their will. That's not a healthy thing.


I get things might FEEL hard, but the actions seem plain: You do not have to do stuff you don't want to do.

I guess I'm being made the villain to some extent, because in their minds, I hold the so-called power to decide their future together.

Not true. They hold the power to determine their future.

YOU make YOUR choices. You don't have to ride the bus with him and her to Closed V town. That's not being selfish. That is exercising YOUR choices. You could honor your preferences so YOU can stay healthy.

If they ask if you want to and you don't? They can have a future together without you. It's in the realm of possibilities. If they really want a Closed V, and you don't want to take that trip again? He can go off to be with her. Go find some other person to be in a 3 people V. It doesn't have to be you.

If they make you responsible, and if you choose something they don't like? You say No Closed V? Then they make you out as the "big meanie?" Tough. Don't vote you "President of All" next time then. Make their OWN choices themselves.

I think it is better if everyone person chooses things for their own self. (behavior)

  • Things in common that line up, will. Everyone could accept it lines up and express joy appropriately.(Possible feelings that could ensue.)
  • Things that don't? Everyone could accept it doesn't line up and express their disappointment appropriately (Possible feelings that could ensue.)

Rather than giving away their choices, feeling upset mind readering doesn't happen, and then doing “you big meanie, you won't let me have my way!” tantrum stuff.

Galagirl
 
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he has told me that it is up to me to "allow" him to date Maggie.
I hold the so-called power to decide their future together.
They have already had a taste of "their future together." You've clearly said that they SUCK at it.

I am not at all a subtle person. :D Placed in that situation I'd say "thanks for making me Lord High God here. Now my decree is that thou SHALT get thy shit together muy DAMN pronto elsewise Maggie is out the nearest airlock & you ever MENTIONING HER NAME is grounds for finding your baggage on the curb with divorce papers on top, CAPISCE?" :cool:

To use the Eric Berne model, you obviously want to be an Adult, but they both expect you to be a Parent. Well, given that, you ought to go ahead & BE the Parent.
 
Wow, you guys/gals don't talk like I expected poly people to talk. I really appreciate you being advocates for me standing up for myself. I guess that is a poly trait. But you haven't called me out on my jealously - I expected that. :)
 
You have the right to feel whatever you feel. You don't sound like you are doing poor behavior to self or others. Just struggling with some inner conflict. It happens.

Some feelings are fun to feel: happy, excited, enthusiastic, etc. If you like feeling that? You could keep doing the behavior(s) that lead to feeling that and/or continue to be in the situation that leads to that.

Some feelings are less fun to feel : sad, mad, scared, jealous, etc. If you don't like feeling that? You stop doing the behavior(s) that lead to feeling that and/or you get yourself OUT of the situation that leads to feeling that.

Being able to feel the full range of human emotion isn't terrible. Sunny days or rainy skies -- all feelings (fun or not) usually pass in time. Why would you need to be called out on simply feeling some stuff and having some emotional weather while dealing with a situation? You are not a robot.

It isn't like poly people are magically free of feeling "the less fun feelings." They still can feel all those things. They could choose to express it appropriately. Or not. Just like anyone else could.

Galagirl
 
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There is a lot of backstory ...
Thanks for sharing. I think your story sounds like an absolutely wonderful emotional adventure with all the ups and downs between people who have a very deep and meaningful history and love for one another. My advice FWIW is to continue being as positive and honest and loving as possible between you all and continue the adventure!
 
Hi Janet, I love the names you chose for yourself and Brad! lol! Welcome to the board.


At the beginning of this whole poly thing, they had agreed that if I wasn't good with their relationship, I had veto power to shut it down... She had never been poly either, but she fell in love with Brad. Initially, she also had a primary BF, but they broke up before she moved in with us. The two of them had come up with this veto thing - her BF or I could veto. I hadn't planned on using it. When everything went south and Brad was coming apart emotionally with all of the stress, I used the veto.

"The two of them came up with the veto." Why did you consent to have this kind of power? Know that, in mature ethical poly arrangements, vetoes are almost never used. It's disrespectful to the new partner. And besides, it doesn't work. You can veto their ability to see each other, to have sex, to communicate by phone or text, but you can't stop their feelings, or the resentment against you from you hindering them (even if they agreed to your veto, they can very well still resent you using it).

I once had a veto arrangement with my ex husband, in my first attempt at poly. I used it on him and his gf. It failed. They still loved each other. Even though they saw each other rarely, and kept things platonic when they did, they still communicated online and by phone. The feelings stayed very much alive. My ex h fell out of love with me since I was "keeping them apart."

This isn't typical poly. Brad is only committed to me and to her. He's not looking to date others. Maggie is not interested in dating others. I'm not interested in dating others. I suppose you could describe it as a closed V.

Closed V's are actually quite common in poly! Do you think typical poly is people running around madly dating and screwing a constantly changing cast of characters? Au contraire. Dating sucks. Poly people may love some variety of partners, but dating jerk after jerk gets tiring. We don't have the time or energy for it. Not to mention, the bigger the group of lovers is, the more risk there is to sexual health. A small poly network is usually desired. Few of us have more than 2 partners, maybe 3.

Brad has stated that he will not leave me, even for her. So he has told me that it is up to me to "allow" him to date Maggie. I resent being put in that situation and recently told him that is his choice, not mine.

There is no "allowing" in poly. Just as in any adult relationship, there is "consent." In the case of poly, you need to read and inform yourself so your consent is informed and joyous. Doing it out of confusion, sadness, and lack of emotional connection caused by your childhood sexual trauma is not a good reason. I am so glad you uncovered those memories and got therapy and have become more healthy emotionally and sexually. Now, you get to reconsider your consent, as we always do. We can give consent, we can withdraw it, even during one sex act. Why not in a larger context, such as the demanding terrain of practicing polyamory?

I do want my husband to be happy. Not being able to have an intimate relationship with Maggie makes him sad, although he says he can deal with it. I feel like I can be a selfish person, so I might be too hard on myself for feeling like I'm being selfish about not wanting him to be with her. I know I have the right to be happy too but doesn't there need to be compromise at times?

You can take care of your needs. That doesn't mean you're selfish. You need to put on your own oxygen mask first. However, Brad's low self esteem (and his lack ofsexual/emotional nourishment in your marriage), has led to some less than healthy dynamics. If I were you, I would refuse to be the veto giver. I'd consent to Brad doing what he wants with gf. I would not however, consent to be a constant sounding board to what is going on between him and her. That's between them and their other friends and/or therapists to sort out. You could be kind and leave them to it, whether you remain married to Brad or not.

Thank you for saying what you did about the "veto". It gave me a chuckle. You're right - they were being very childish. And yes, I guess I'm being made the villain to some extent, because in their minds, I hold the so-called power to decide their future together.

I disagree with Ravencroft's harsh judgmental tone. There is no reason to be condescending. I don't think anyone is anymore "childish" than anyone else. Just recently, your were unable to emotionally or sexually relate to Brad because of your childhood trauma. If he is still operating under low self esteem because of his own childhood traumas, it is not kind, or helpful, to judge him as more "childish" than you.

It sounds like he chose you, and was loyal for a long time, despite your limitations. No sex for... 15 years? Is a long long ass time for a man with normal strong sex drive to go without. I think he's worth a vote of gratitude for his loyalty.

Maybe now that you're regaining some health around emotional/sexual life, and you and Brad are having regular sex and healthier emotional relations, you two can continue to progress. He could make the choice to work on things with you. Or he could say, enough is enough, I choose to be mono with gf. You two can work this out to the least stinky choice that will afford all concerned the happiest life going forward.

Wow, you guys/gals don't talk like I expected poly people to talk. I really appreciate you being advocates for me standing up for myself. I guess that is a poly trait. But you haven't called me out on my jealousy - I expected that. :)


Jealousy is based on fear, usually of loss. If you don't feel Brad is ripe to choose gf over you, you have no big reason to fear loss, and feel jealous. Sure, you have had some uncomfortable experiences with her. You chose to move her in. That's on you. It wasn't her fault it didn't work out. Sure, she's more outgoing than you. That doesn't matter. If you request Brad quit reporting about their dates to you, you won't need to think about her.

You have mixed feelings about gf since she helped you recover from your rape trauma. Maybe you resent feeling beholden to someone who is sharing Brad's love right now. It's complicated.

However, you don't need to be friends with her. You don't need to see her. If a brief meeting can't be helped, you can be politely casual. No need to be intimate bffs just because Brad is enjoying (or not enjoying :rolleyes: ) her company.
 
I don't think anyone is anymore "childish" than anyone else. ]If he is still operating under low self esteem because of his own childhood traumas, it is not kind, or helpful, to judge him as more "childish" than you.
You are down-talking Janet's feelings (or opinion or assessment or whatever) as somehow less-than-totally valid, yet pretending that this is somehow "supportive" of her because it'd prop up her ostensible husband.

If Janet's story is at all accurate, then Brad got his wishes, moved The True Love Of His Dreams into the house, & quickly fell to petty bickering.

One or more of Janet's "partners" then WEASELLED her into "breaking them up" in order to resolve a situation that NEITHER of them could step up to.

In the Berne (TA) model, there are exactly three modes: Child, Parent, Adult.

Here, Janet is attempting as an Adult to speak to other Adults. But they are acting in Child mode & speaking up to her as the Parent to fix THEIR bullshit, then resentful whe she actually DOES.

They will continue to fall back on CHILDISHNESS until firmly expected to step up as Adults.

His past traumas are HIS PROBLEM to deal with (& hopefully resolve).

I think he's worth a vote of gratitude for his loyalty.
And where EXACTLY is demonstrated this "loyalty" of which you speak? Where is it that Janet has let HIM down?
 
There is really no need for all the caps and italics, Raven. We have a difference of opinion. No need to "yell" and over-emphasise every other word.

I do not know about Berne and their "exactly three" modes of behavior. That seems overly simplistic though, if that's all you've got. We all are programmed by our childhood experiences, trauma, inexact parenting, and act in childish or grownup ways according to how much we've worked through things. Sounds like Brad and Janet both had issues that led to less than healthy relating over a couple decades. I feel calling one or the other of them a "child" in this case, close to namecalling, which is not allowed per the rules of this board, for good reason.

She agreed to a veto. He didn't force her into it. Having vetoes is a common poly newbie mistake. Now she is questioning its efficacy and ethics. And maybe Brad would see the pointlessness of the veto if they were to just discuss it.

Why ask where his loyalty was? I stated it. She couldn't/wouldn't have sex with him for 15 years, yet he stuck by her.
 
There is really no need for all the caps and italics, Raven. We have a difference of opinion. No need to "yell" and over-emphasise every other word.

I do not know about Berne and their "exactly three" modes of behavior. That seems overly simplistic though, if that's all you've got. We all are programmed by our childhood experiences, trauma, inexact parenting, and act in childish or grownup ways according to how much we've worked through things. Sounds like Brad and Janet both had issues that led to less than healthy relating over a couple decades. I feel calling one or the other of them a "child" in this case, close to namecalling, which is not allowed per the rules of this board, for good reason.

She agreed to a veto. He didn't force her into it. Having vetoes is a common poly newbie mistake. Now she is questioning its efficacy and ethics. And maybe Brad would see the pointlessness of the veto if they were to just discuss it.

Why ask where his loyalty was? I stated it. She couldn't/wouldn't have sex with him for 15 years, yet he stuck by her.

Well said. Also love your signature line.
 
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I do not know about Berne and their "exactly three" modes of behavior.
...
I feel calling one or the other of them a "child" in this case, close to namecalling, which is not allowed per the rules of this board, for good reason.

Not a fan of namecalling, either. But I think that identifying transactional analysis roles in a situation (such as the one described by the OP) is not namecalling. It is certainly debatable whether the roles have been validly identified. In this specific case, I think they are apt. And I think Ravenscroft made a point of introducing the term within the context of Bernian analysis to avoid confusion over namecalling.
 
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