Advice on my first non-monogamous experience

[MystifiedLion]

I've been with my GF – Cathrine – for nearly three years. We've been mainly monogamous although eventually "opening up" have been an ideal for us (plus some causal sex with others). We're both poly virgins. To begin with Cathrine had a stronger preference for non-monogamy than me, but the balance has gradually shifted.

Ten month ago a met a girl (Lou), and asked Cathrine if I could pursue a sexual, non-romantic relationship with her (Lou is a colleague of mine). This was rejected by Cathrine and we agreed to be monogamous for the next three month (and then renegotiate). In retrospect I can see that I made this agreement out of fear of losing Cathrine, and I felt very restricted and cramped during these months. During these months I also developed strong, emotional feelings for Lou (through small chatters at the workplace and one kissing-session). I told Cathrine about my feelings, and asked her permission to begin a romantic relationship with Lou (it was more or less a take it or leave it offer). Cathrine accepted to try it out, but was worried about going too fast.

Lou and I started seeing each other (approx. 2 sleepovers a week) with lot of NRE. This lasted for 3-4 month also consisting of:

• Cathrine feeling jealous and insecure about my feelings for her. In doubt of whether this form of non-monogamy is right for her.
• Lou feeling uncomfortable about "hurting" Cathrine's feelings. Lou in genuine doubt of whether non-monogamy is something for her.
• Myself not being able to communicate my own needs, but instead trying to balance the views of Cathrine and Lou. Both feeling I took the others position.
• Both Cathrine and Lou feeling pressured by me into "going too fast".
• Cathrine wanting to meet Lou, and Lou feeling pressured into meeting Cathrine.

Lou ended the relationship two months ago. She was in too much pain, not feeling either of us were ready for this kind of relationship. She had been open about her concerns and I supported her decision. Afterwards I have told her that I would like to get back together under the right circumstances. We have both communicated a wish to maintain some kind of connection/friendship.

My relationship to Cathrine has improved significantly after the breakup with Lou, but she is still feeling insecure due to my feelings for Lou.

Two months after the breakup I still have strong emotions for Lou. I really want to try to establish a connection with Lou again, but know that Cathrine will have a hard time about this (and possible me and Lou as well). What do you think I should do?

I'm interested to learn if you have ever felt like this and any advice would be great.

xxx / MystifiedLion

 

[Evie]

Lou might just have to be a one that got away. Cathrine clearly isn't okay with [this form of] non-monogamy. Slower might make a difference with someone else in the future, but there's probably a lot of internal work that needs doing alongside discussing the ways you'll navigate this as a couple if Cathrine agrees to ever try it again. Once bitten and all that.

I'm sure you'll get much more helpful advice from the pros around here, but having kinda been in Lou's shoes before, I'd just say let the girl go, move on.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello MystifiedLion,

Before deciding on your next move, ask Lou how she feels about the situation. Is she ready to get back together with you? If not, you must at least give her some more time. And of course even if Lou wants to get back together with you at this time, you still have Cathrine to consider. Does Cathrine consent to you getting back together with Lou? If not, you either need to let Lou go or, let Cathrine go, if you feel that strongly about it.

It sounds to me like Lou and Cathrine both have reservations about the whole situation. It isn't like Cathrine is ruining things all by herself. Cathrine and Lou both felt you were going too fast. So, if you and Lou do get back together, you need to go slower. Perhaps two sleepovers a week is too much? I'm just thinking out loud here. I hope that the three of you can work things out.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

Welcome MystifiedLion,

I'm sorry your first foray into poly didn't work out well. How much reading had you done before actually starting into a relationship with Lou? You said you and Cathrine had an interest for all 3 years, especially her, at first. Did you look at any websites or books about poly, and how to do it, how to prevent (some of the) jealousy, how to share time, how to handle the strong new feelings of infatuation, etc., etc.? Or did you just sit around and fantasize about how great poly would be?

If you hadn't done much reading, you've come to the right place. There is a search function here where you can find stories on first ventures into poly, and the attendant mistakes almost all newbies make.

There is also a website called More Than Two. And a book of the same name. And a book called Opening Up. Read these resources with Cathrine.

It's hard for some not to move "too fast" when infatuated (or in "new relationship energy" aka NRE). It's a hormonal rush put there by nature to cause pair bonding and reproduction. It feels great. But it's difficult for an established partner to watch and deal with. It's up to the person who is dating to rise above it and keep the established partner feeling safe and desired.

I hear you tried to reassure both your partners, but both felt you favored the other one! And your own needs weren't met either. That must have been frustrating. Poly takes patience and lots of communication and sensitivity and generosity, on all sides.

As hard as it might be, it would be wise to take a break from Lou. Maybe Cathrine should go on a few dates, meet a few people, since she is interested in poly? Then she'll see NRE from the other side, and might have more understanding of how crazy you went over Lou.

 

[MystifiedLion]

@Evie
Thanks! It is hard to read, but I think you might be right on Lou. I probably have to let her go. I've told her that I still have strong feelings for her, but that it is not working out right now; none of us are ready. That said I still hope it might work out in the future.

Cathrine wasn't okay with this form of non-monogamy. We're communicating great again. She is committed to work hard on her end, and we're working as a couple to heal what have been harmed. I think we're improving – slowly slowly.


@kdt26417
Thanks! You're right Lou and Cathrine both have reservations about the whole situation.

Lou is not ready to get back together. It has been a very hard process for her. She says that she cannot see a path with my where she is not going to be hurt. And she has already been hurting a lot. She still has strong feelings for me. She definitely needs some more time (a lot probably)! The question is more whether we should continue seeing each other as friends.

Cathrine does consent to me getting back with Lou (either as lover or friend) under the right circumstances. For one think it needs to go slower. She also needs to be comfortable with Lou and to be able to meet Lou (they have met once on Cathrine's initiative, but Lou was hesitating). And most importantly her relationship with me needs to be more solid. She is doing a lot of work and self-development.

"It isn't like Cathrine is ruining things all by herself."

You're definitly right – I'm probably the one who have been ruining things the most. By forcing everyone to go to fast and not being able to communicate well enough.

@Magdlyn
Thanks for welcoming me.
I had done some reading – mostly in Opening Up and Ethical Slut – before getting together with Lou (and Cathrine had as well), but definitely not enough given that we had been together for 2 years and talking on and off about opening up. We had also talked about it in couples therapy, but I would definitely have liked to be more prepared.

I think you get it quit right in respect to NRE (topped up with an incredible feeling of finally being 100 per cent honest with Cathrine). I was too infatuated to make any wise decisions (I felt invincible) and to keep Cathrine safe and desired. I could read in the books that thinks wasn't right, but I still thought we were different and could make it.

Cathrine have been on some dates. It has definitely enhanced her understanding, but she hasn't experienced a lot of NRE yet. But thanks for pointing it out for me. I will encourage her to go on some more dates.

Thanks for listing some other resources – I will look into them.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry things did not pan out. I mean all this kindly, ok?

Just some things to think about maybe if you try to poly again in future.

Ten month ago a met a girl (Lou), and asked Cathrine if I could pursue a sexual, non-romantic relationship with her (Lou is a colleague of mine). This was rejected by Cathrine and we agreed to be monogamous for the next three month (and then renegotiate). In retrospect I can see that I made this agreement out of fear of losing Cathrine, and I felt very restricted and cramped during these months.

Why are you agreeing to things out of fear of losing Cathrine? At the start, you both wanted to arrive at non-monogamy. 3 years in, what work was actually done to prepare?

If you have prepared, and Cathrine has not prepared? And you are ready to move on? Why are you asking her for "permission?" She is not the boss of you.

What you are asking for is her CONSENT to participate in a non-monogamous model. Is she WILLING? Is she ABLE? Does she CONSENT?

If you are ready to end the current model and change to non-monogamous model and she is not even though this was the plan? Then you could part ways and just end model. You go ahead and continue to ride the bus to Poly Town. She does not. The kind thing to do is let her get off the bus, while you carry on with the trip.

That allows you to be FREE TO move on. And allows Cathrine to be FREE FROM things she isn't ready for yet.

If you put your own need to move on aside due to fear of "losing Cathrine" and you end up feeling cooped up/restrained/restricted? You haven't actually met your own (need to move forward) very well. It's a good way to grow resentments toward Cathrine. Rather than accepting you are both are on two different paths.

During these months I also developed strong, emotional feelings for Lou (through small chatters at the workplace and one kissing-session).

Was this kissing/make out thing with coworker Lou cheating on agreements with Cathrine? If so? That is not good. That would explain her hesitation/insecure feelings. Nobody wants to take up polyshipping with a cheating partner/their cheating affair partner. Kissing might seem mild, but emotionally it might be huge to Cathrine. Like if she cannot trust you to keep agreements with small stuff, what are you gonna do with big stuff?

It may be easier for Cathrine to blame Lou -- the outside party. Like she has cast a spell on you or something. Rather than hold YOU accountable for breaking agreements.

I told Cathrine about my feelings, and asked her permission to begin a romantic relationship with Lou (it was more or less a take it or leave it offer). Cathrine accepted to try it out, but was worried about going too fast.

Don't do "take it or leave it" ultimatums to people. That is not nice. Esp after three years of lukeawarm/non-action? I think it is safe to just call it "Cathrine was willing to talk about it, but is not actually wanting to go there." Pressuring her to go there is not a kind thing. Esp if she also has that fear of breaking up thing.

To me it would have been kinder to say "I'm ready to do non-monogamy. I want to do this clean. I do not want to cheat on agreements. You don't seem excited about going there. We need to part ways respectfully and break up."

End things with Cathrine in a forthright way FIRST. Then you can kiss/make out with whoever without cheating on agreements.

I think getting involved with coworkers is not a good thing, but I'll set that bit aside.

Two months after the breakup I still have strong emotions for Lou. I really want to try to establish a connection with Lou again, but know that Cathrine will have a hard time about this (and possible me and Lou as well). What do you think I should do?

You seem to want to practice polyamory/non-monogamy of some sort.

Lou is not all that sure sounding if she wants non-monogamy for herself. And because she's not sounding sure? Don't take up with Lou again. At least not for a long while so she has time/space to make up her mind about it. Finish your time of grieving post Lou break up too. Not rush to get back together to assuage break up pain. It's only been 2 mos.

I also think you could break up with Cathrine. She doesn't sound like she wants to do non-monogamy after 3 years of talking about it. You sound like you do. So you guys are not compatible. Then give yourself time to grieve that break up too.

I would consider ending it with both and being on your own for a while. Work on your own stuff and your own self first.

If you are trying to do poly with partners who are not sure they want poly or actually prefer monogamy? You are shopping at the wrong store. Why do this to yourself and to them? Rather than upset yourself and partners more than need be? You could reassess if you are dating the right people for what it is you want to be doing.

In future? Could spare all of you the grief by choosing the right kind of partners to begin with. People who share your values and want to be doing poly from the start. Not "lukewarm" sounding people. Obtain a "joyous yes" consent to participate. To me anything less than a joyous yes is a "working no."

Myself not being able to communicate my own needs, but instead trying to balance the views of Cathrine and Lou. Both feeling I took the others position.

Were you trying to placate each one so neither of them dumps you? Was that fear of "losing them" triggering on both sides of the V?

I think you lost sight of what YOU need. And you could work on articulating that better. You can go down this list and circle the ones you are missing.

http://www.cnvc.org/Training/needs-inventory

I also think you could become ok standing on your own two feet whether people stay in relationship with you or if they break up. Then you aren't held "prisoner" by this "fear of losing them."

I never understand that fear. No break up is FUN. But if a romance shape is not the right fit, can't square peg round hole it and FORCE it to be. Best to accept and let that part of it GO and let the relationship shape change to something that DOES work -- like perhaps friendship. If people wish to remain friends after a break up, they CAN. They don't have to be lost from your whole life. They do have to be able to participate in your life in the right shape way so both you and the other person can feel ok and not miserable.

A hinge has to show care and concern for their partners, certainly. But not before showing care and concern for THEMSELVES. And I do not mean that in a selfish way. I mean that in a self-care way. If you are burning out/spread too thin trying to attend to other people and skip attending to your own self care? That's no good. That is the path to growing resentful of the people existing because YOU keep shelving attending to yourself in favor of attending to them.

Just because you are the hinge doesn't mean you do all the work. Are you good at saying "I'm sorry. No. " to people? Because if you say "yes" to Cathrine about things you don't really want to be doing just because you are afraid she will break up with you? And do similar with Lou?

It might be a case of you being WILLING to do poly, but not ABLE to do poly well yet because you need to grow some skills.

At minimum the skills of

• understanding and articulating your own wants and needs
• the ability to tell your partners "No. I'm sorry you struggle. I cannot help you with that at this time." Having strong boundaries.
• the skill of being able to break up well. Understanding that it is not FUN, but sometimes it is needed

Hinges are not everyone else's free therapist. Sometimes I see newbie hinges trying to make all the partners happy because "I get to be the hinge, so I have to do double the work" when that is just not so.

If people CONSENT to be here, everyone does their fair share.

If you ended up "carrying" Cathrine because

• She didn't prepare even though you were talking about if for 3 years
• you didn't want to say " I prepared, I'm ready to move forward. You did not prepare, so we have to part ways"

And you ended up "carrying" Lou because

• Lou was not sure about non-monogamy but chose to jump in anyway
• Lou was overly concerned about what Cathrine was doing/feeling

then I have to wonder about this bit:

Both Cathrine and Lou feeling pressured by me into "going too fast".

It is possible you were going too fast.

It is also possible they failed to speak up for themselves and saying "No. I'm Sorry. I cannot do that at this time. This does not meet my need for a slower pace." And then they perhaps blamed it on you like you are supposed to mind-reader what they want.

Maybe even both things were happening.

Here's another thought. When a group of "people pleaser" types get together, they can easily lose sight of their OWN needs in the attempts to make everyone else happy. And then NOBODY is happy. YKWIM? Did any of that sort of thing happen here?

• It is almost like you were WILLING but not ABLE due to lack of some skills
• Cathrine is NOT WILLING AFTER 3 YEARS and NOT ABLE but here anyway due to ultimatum
• Lou is NOT SURE WILLING and NOT SURE ABLE but here anyway.

How is this a recipe for success? Poly is challenging enough. Starting with stronger foundations is not a guarantee, but I think it gives better odds for success. Here the foundations did not sound all that good.

Galagirl