Am I being cruel? I was polybombed.

[costanza]

I've been struggling for about 4 months now. My parents died recently and I was in a deep state of emotional ruin. A few months after the death, while I am still trying to figure out how to cope, my wife of 20 years pulls me aside and tells me she is polyamorous, has a boyfriend, and wants to know if she can proceed.

I'm in such a state of ruin. I am afraid her depression (which seemed related to the recent election and how the world is going) would get worse if I said no. She has a history of self harm, and I wondered if she would act out on that. I was afraid for her, so I agreed to "allow" her to explore and understand this internal emotion.

She asked for rules, but I have been in a one-sided poly relationship in the past, and rules always got bent, broken, amended, and in the end I was just an empty shell of a human. I honestly don't know how I survived. I explained to her that my mindset is that the least harmful path is the one of consideration and respect, but that I am not ready to share my wife's body with anyone.

I am aware of the perspective she is sharing her body with me, but I don't know how else to state it.

If she was ever in doubt that I would be ok with something, just ask. I realize this is far too open-ended for comfort, but I don't know how else to structure something like this.

I should mention that she knows I am pretty much completely against the polyamorous lifestyle for myself, but I do not hold it against others if they feel that is their calling.

I don't know what to make of a 20-year marriage with almost zero conflict, 2 amazing children, and a very fulfilling and deeply connected partnership, suddenly expecting to be polyamorous.

If I do not consent to a physical relationship involving intimacy, but fully allow an emotional one, am I being fundamentally cruel? Or is that perfectly logical, given we now have opposing ideologies, but neither one of us want to hurt the other or be apart from one another?

I've been very supportive the whole way through. She asks for advice on how to respond to things he says or does. In many ways, I feel I am being self-destructive, but I do enjoy seeing the life in my wife's eyes and having something of a catty gay couple relationship when we talk about the man we refer to as our boyfriend. There is plenty that is fun in all of this. Don't get me wrong.

But try as I might, I just cannot get over the physical thing. I just don't get it. She knows it would kill me. But I have no way of weaning into that kind of lifestyle, and honestly, I don't want to. Not now or ever.

I said this to them both, and they both seemed to be accommodating to the idea. However, when I hear him refer to my position, he speaks like I will come around some day and we will all be in threesomes. I sincerely do not want to build his hopes up, or my wife's. But I feel that if I consent to them being physical, it will lead to me being left in emotional ruin and that I will no longer see my wife with the desire and adoration that I still have now.

I also fear that not consenting would lead to an affair, or my wife agreeing to end this effort, and then becoming depressed and possibly suicidal again.

I need to be able to function to take care of our children, but this is all-consuming and I have no way to regulate the anxiety, loss of sleep, appetite, or frankly, desire to keep living. I have no idea why I am so affected by this, but it is the honest truth and I would appreciate not being shamed for having feelings that would normally end up with an intervention. I am just purely devastated.

I help facilitate dates we all go on. He dates couples, and in this case, a couple where one is poly and the other is not. It seems like a futile effort to me if sex is the goal. But if it is about comradery and building a stronger future for both of our families. and sex is not involved, then I can see why this whole thing could be beneficial, and maybe in the long run I might not be bothered by the sexual nature of this relationship, if it should surface. But that could be far down the line, which may be torturous for all of us. So I encourage movie nights, cooking together, going to events, anything to get used to one another and see how we bond as humans. We do all of this and we all have a great time. But then I will have a wave of sadness and my wife instantly collapses, stating how cruel I am being by having negative reactions that I legitimately cannot control and would prefer not to hide.

Sometimes I just panic attack and my wife has to talk me back into reality. Sometimes she freaks out saying she is an awful wife for doing this to me, and I calm her down and remind her we are so much stronger and closer after all of the heartache and difficult conversations revolving around this, and that she has done nothing wrong. She is a wonderful person and I do not believe anyone should accept being anything other than themselves for anyone.

But here we are. Being me would demand she does not have a sexual relationship with others. Being her might not include exclusivity. So we have these emotional rifts often. Not fights, mind you. Just meltdowns that are usually compassionately handled, and when they are not, we don't argue. We just sort of lie in despair trying to think over the subject at hand.

At our worst times, she will bring up the importance of autonomy and freedom, which I believe we all just intrinsically have. We just don't have impunity. I openly admit this could end our marriage, and she gives me this look of complete devastation. She has a strong rejection complex, but I cannot lie to her and pretend our marriage will be ok if I have to just accept this way of life. I can't help what I am any more than she can.

My fears are woven in experience and the familiar emotions that came with all that happened in the past. While trauma shouldn't block you from truly living, there is no way I want to risk the ruin I experienced for something like sex, and I wonder why anyone else would.

Our home could vanish. Our children-- what would they think? Would they vilify either of us or both? They both know we have a boyfriend, but they don't know I am not consensual about the physical end of things.

So I wonder if I am just being cruel by supporting her in this effort, or if I have to just outright tell her I cannot function properly when all I can think about is why my wife suddenly wants a sexual relationship, and seems to have no concern for how it will affect our marriage or children's life.

I hear a lot of buzz words, which I hate. I don't like labels; even the "polybomb" one seems offensive to me. But when I hear things like "authentic self" and "autonomy and freedom" from so many people I know, all at the same time, I start to wonder if this is truly polyamory, or an interesting idea seeped from a ton of social media feeds.

She was depressed, after all, and I was an emotional wreck from my parents' death. I can't blame her for finding joy in something new. But I want to be positive it is real before just allowing some guy from the internet to have sexual relations with my wife. I mean, what if he's just a really cunning man who looks for lonely housewives?

My wife hates the emotional boomerang. I am elated one day because I love seeing her glow. Then I am deeply depressed another day and cannot hide my sorrow, which brings her down, and then we both spiral. I can't stand hurting my wife's feelings, and she can't stand hurting mine. So how can I be supportive of her? How can I actively encourage my wife to experience a poly lifestyle while it ruins me from the inside? I don't want to leave her. I don't want her to ever be in the emotional space I am in now. She was suicidal, and now the roles have reversed. I think about suicide constantly, but probably because it is easier for me to just brush it off and say I can always just end it all instead of legitimately trying to find out how to live with this. It is selfish, but isn't it also selfish to insist your husband accepts this lifestyle all of a sudden? I just don't know what the ethical path is here.

I am overwhelmed. I am terrified. I am devastated. But I recognize a newness and glowing life in my wife that I haven't seen in a long time. A glow that I fear will vanish if I leave her over this. I just don't know what to do. Am I being cruel by not ending this relationship now? Am I being cruel if I ask her to step back from this and try to turn the relationship platonic? She has said I can ask her to stop at any point, but I don't do that because I think that in itself is cruel. It's only been 4 months, and I just feel completely drained, exhausted. I haven't slept since this began. I have no idea how I will survive another month, year, or more. I do not want this life. I want what most people who have been bombed want. I want my spouse back, the way we were. But that... would be cruel.

Has anyone else here been in this spot? What are your stories? What did you do, or what are you doing? I would like to hear from others.

 

[Tinwen]

I'm so sorry, this is very sad reading.

I think you are both in immediate need of help with your mental health. Can you get or afford both individual and couples' counseling? Because the underlying depression and grief, they are beyond this internet forum.

From a poly perspective, "I have a boyfriend" is cheating in the open. This is not kind of your wife, quite the contrary. If we're going to call some action cruel, this is it. However, I can see how this new love came in a state of desperation.

There's no telling if you could accept the physical aspect of her having an affair (or "poly" relationship) if you were in a better state of mind and had time to prepare. However, it sounds like you are pretty adamant that this relationship style is not what you want. If so, you will sooner or later have to be honest with the fact that you can't picture yourself accepting the physical aspect, ever, making this a "me or him" (or "me or poly") situation. We usually don't recommend committing to a poly relationship if you can't find advantages to the lifestyle for yourself.

Best case scenario I can picture in your case is this:
Your wife can accept the limitations on sex, and you are able to ride her emotional NRE together. In a year or so, her new relationship calms down to a deep friendship. At that point, she can reassess this newly emerged "poly" side of her, you may be in a state to dip your toes into the joys of dating others yourself, and you can have the talks again from a much calmer state of mind and assess the continued compatibility of your marriage.

That being said, it's truly hard to hold off on physical intimacy in NRE, if they continue seeing each other.

The alternative, of course, is peaceful divorce and co-parenting. Then you are free to build an amazing monogamous relationship with someone new.

As for you facilitating and being involved in their dates so much, I don't think you are truly helping yourself. If you're having fun, sure, go ahead, watch a movie with them. I myself find it much easier to let my partners' time with others be their time and have my time for my own stuff. I handle jealousy better if I know "just the right amount" of info-- enough to feel happy for them, not enough to be triggered.

Btw, even if you do decide to give a green light to the physical aspect, there's absolutely no reason to picture threesomes. Most poly people don't have them with their "metamours."

To reiterate: Please get immediate and intense real-life help. This triple load of grief (your parents' deaths, the loss of exclusivity and the potential of loss of your marriage altogether) is no good.

 

[FeralGeek]

To reiterate: Please get immediate and intense real-life help. This triple load of grief (your parents' dead, the loss of exclusivity and the potential of losing your marriage altogether) is no good.

this. There’s very little polyamory in this situation, mostly just grief and trauma.

 

[Magdlyn]

I am so very sorry for your loss.

I agree with everything Tinwen said. Seek, specifically, grief counseling.

Stop wearing yourself out going on dates with your wife's bf, stop being her "gay bestie" and kiki-ing about him and the romantic stuff she feels for him. You are not required to involve yourself in all that. It's obviously hurting you.

You want your wife to be happy, but at what cost? You can't sleep, you're having panic attacks, suicidal ideation, etc.

Perhaps your wife was polyamorous all along, or perhaps she never imagined she could love two people at once. Perhaps she has just grown in ways that you haven't. I am not saying you haven't grown, just that you've grown in different directions. You don't have to stay together forever. Maybe it's time to move on.

My husband and I were together for 30 years and split when I was in my early 50s because we'd grown apart. Best thing I ever did. My "authentic self" was being stifled by being with him. We both moved on and found partners who were much more suited to whom we'd become. It's never too late to start again.

But for you, right now, it's not time to make any big changes or decisions. Please seek help. Find a place where you can vent, heal, get coping skills for where you are right now.

 

[costanza]

Thank you all. I think you are all correct. I am not required to do anything, but I am also not required to just consent to this. She knows my limits, but insists she doesn't ever want to be without me. I feel the same about her. Apparently we're both willing to torture each other to see what our thresholds actually are. In the end, I think it will all end up the same. We will have to accept that what we want doesn't work together, and if a poly relationship is what she wants, we will have to be divorced. Sad, but what can I do?

I'll see if I can wean some kind of therapy in.

 

[FeralGeek]

I'll see if I can wean some kind of therapy in.

Please prioritize your mental health, even consider a short-term anti-depressant (if you feel that’s appropriate after discussing it with your favorite licensed medical professional), but mental health IS health, and you’ll be making the best choices if you’re in your best place.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello costanza,

It sounds like you are really in a pickle, you are not ready for your wife to do this, but you feel you have no choice. Sorry about losing your parents like that, that is really hard. You are not being cruel, you are just expressing your feelings. Do not let your wife push you around, and hold herself hostage. You are trying to work out a compromise where she does not have a physical relationship, but does have a fully emotional one. This gives you a little, and her a little. She should be okay with that. In a healthy marriage, both spouses compromise. It's not one spouse doing all the giving, and the other spouse doing all the taking. If you become okay with a physical relationship later on down the line, great; if not that is okay too.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry for your loss. Grief can be super-challenging to navigate.

While I am still trying to figure out how to cope, my wife of 20 years pulls me aside and tells me she is polyamorous, has a boyfriend, and wants to know if she can proceed.

Honestly, if you two were monogamous before, this is Wife admitting that she was stepping out and cheating on the monogamous agreements, and now trying to "whitewash" it by waving the polyamory brush at it. Her timing for this "reveal" was super cruel. Smack during your mourning period.

You can't keep her in a monogamous relationship if she doesn't want that anymore. But that doesn't mean you have to sign up to do polyamory with her. You can say "No, thanks, I am not up for that. I also consider this to be you cheating and trying to cover it up with polyamory. This is not how healthy polyamory works."

I am afraid her depression (which seemed related to the recent election and how the world is going) would get worse if I said no. She has a history of self harm, and I wondered if she would act out on that. I was afraid for her, so I agreed to "allow" her to explore and understand this internal emotion.

Those are not healthy reasons to choose polyamory for yourself. Those are reasons for her to seek healthcare.

To me, unmanaged mental health is a reason to break up. People cannot help having things, so I'm ok staying if they are working on it, and trying to follow the patient-management plan set by their doctors. I am not going to stick around if they will not work with their doctors at all, and seek to "self medicate" with other stuff -- drugs, drinking, cheating affairs, self harm, etc.

You sound like you are way tangled up in your wife, and could benefit from talking to a poly-friendly counselor. Internet people might be able to help you with one or two things, but you have a LOT going on here. In case it helps you find one:

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

www.polyfriendly.org

I think you need to set stronger personal boundaries with your wife, and stop enabling poor behaviors. She is making you responsible for:

• Managing her feelings for her, especially her not feeling guilty for her poor behaviors
• Facilitating her other relationships
• Shouldering the bulk of relational responsibility

You are going against your core values and compromising your own well-being by bending into pretzels. You seem to know it.

Ask yourself why you are doing that. You aren't responsible for everything. You sound like you are self-abandoning and/or subsuming yourself to the relationship. This doesn't sound like a healthy dynamic. I am very concerned for you.

It's like you bend over backwards to create a safe space relationship for her. But do you create it for yourself? Does she create it for you? Does this relationship have accountability, personal responsibility, mutuality? Or do you basically "carry" her, and she's happy to be carried?

In case these help you reflect while seeking a counselor:

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf

Home

Healthy relationships for young adults can be confusing. Love is more than just the way you feel, and we're here to help.

www.loveisrespect.org

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don’t know how to work through, or don’t even know if you should? We’ll talk you through making these choices, including how-to’s on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.

www.scarleteen.com

Polyamory doesn't mean all sense flies out the window. It doesn't mean dinging your own well-being just to poly date.

There is NOTHING wrong with wanting monogamy. And if you do want polyamory, you don't have to do it with HER in this weird and wonky way. You could split up. And after healing from all that, go on to poly-date healthier people in healthy ways. You know that, right? So, why do you excuse poor behaviors?

That's what you unpack with the counselor.

However it is you decide, I hope you create peace and healing for yourself.

Galagirl

 

[costanza]

You sound like you are way tangled up in your wife, and could benefit from talking to a poly-friendly counselor

Thanks, GalaGirl.

I have talked with a poly friend who gave some kind counseling. Our situation is a little unconventional and it is hard to explain thoroughly. This friend also said the polybomb was wrong, poor timing, etc., but acknowledged that her own grief may well have been severe enough to justify this as something of an "I can't hold this in any longer for my own mental health" - and to be fair, they only had an emotional connection at the time and I did not feel they had gone too far. I have been in open relationships before and I understand we all may have our own set of needs. They just all went wrong, communicated badly, and I was not at all prepared to lose my wife of 20 years to the same issues I faced in the past.

You are going against your core values and compromising your own well-being by bending into pretzels. You seem to know it.

Ask yourself why you are doing that. You aren't responsible for everything. You sound like you are self-abandoning and/or subsuming yourself to the relationship. This doesn't sound like a healthy dynamic. I am very concerned for you.

It's like you bend over backwards to create a safe space relationship for her. But do you create it for yourself? Does she create it for you? Does this relationship have accountability, personal responsibility, mutuality? Or do you basically "carry" her, and she's happy to be carried?
Galagirl

You are right. I am doing that. I have always tried to live an open-minded life. I never want to judge people. But if something truly jarring is presented to me, I feel it would be cruel and irresponsible to not do whatever I can to find out if this is something I can handle. For all I know, it would be eye opening and lead to new and exciting things.

She knows this. I explained this with no lack of detail. She knows this is how I have handled all of my relationships in the past. This has always been seen as exploration and discovery to me, for both of us, and not intended to go past the lines of physical restraint. I don't know if she fully embraced that notion, or just piggybacked my pseudo-willingness to continue this experience for her and her interest. So I don't know if she is "happy to be carried."

I am very concerned for myself too. In a recent discussion I had said I don't think I can handle this, and asked her to respond with compassion and not hostility. I got hostility, and the line "I want bodily autonomy," with no explanation for that that means. She's not in prison. Seems like a red flag to me.

I am bending over backwards, I know. But I also don't know if I should be. I might be forcing them to feel their magnetic pull while refusing to let them get close. That could harbor resentment, pain, suffering in ways I cannot experience and may not be able to empathize with. I don't know if it is best for everyone if I simply say right here and now-- "This is not going to work. Choose to be platonic or an amicable divorce." That seems like I am insisting on an ultimatum that will almost positively be seen as an attempt to control their lives. That may seem like manipulation on all ends.

Deep down, I feel like I am expecting my wife to kill a part of her soul to remain in a marriage that might be completely fulfilling in every way except the multiple-sex-partner way. I don't know how hard that is for poly people to deal with, and everyone is different, so there may be no universal answer.

Conversely, I feel almost like I am being bullied into consenting to her having an affair. I'm sorry if that is a crude way of looking at it, but as a mono, I don't know how to bend that reality in a way that sounds less offensive. As I see it, a non-consensual extramarital sexual relationship is an affair. Not a soul search, not testing the strength of our relationship, not amicable. So, it is what it is.

She recently said something like "We need to take a month away from each other," which sounds a lot like she is expecting to run off, leave me with the kids for a month, do whatever she wants, and then expect me to be there when or if she comes back. I think this was a moment of frustration that she later calmed down on and apologized for, but the fact that it came out at all makes me think she has been pondering this for a while now. This feels like a time bomb to me.

Thanks for your response. I appreciate the counseling.

 

[Evie]

"I got hostility, and the line "I want bodily autonomy" with no explanation for that that means."

I suspect it means that she is now perceiving marriage and the inbuilt expectation of monogamy as restrictive and would like to feel free to have physical intimacy of whatever form with whomever she pleases. She wants *full* control over her own sex life. I know I did.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi costanza,

It sounds like your marriage is just about perfect in every way, other than this one little thing. The only problem with that is, it's not a little thing -- not at all. You may have come up against a line of hard incompatibility. In which case you may be going through the stages of grief, in anticipation of what's surely to come. Maybe you are in the stage of bargaining right now. I'm sorry to say that, I hope I'm wrong.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[costanza]

"I got hostility, and the line "I want bodily autonomy" with no explanation for that that means."

I suspect it means that she is now perceiving marriage and the inbuilt expectation of monogamy as restrictive and would like to feel free to have physical intimacy of whatever form with whomever she pleases. She wants *full* control over her own sex life. I know I did.

I get that part. What I don't get is why she chooses to say this with such abstraction and not specifically stating that it means she wants a sexual relationship vs something far less problematic, like asking if she can go to movies or something with him. It's like she doesn't want to say the words to me in fear of my reaction, since I am not polyamorous.

I also don't know why she is so offended when I suggest an amicable divorce is necessary if she wants multiple sexual partners. How is that more shocking than your wife basically saying she wants to be married to you, but also wants to sleep around, regardless of how I feel about it? I have no problems elaborating on the necessities of moving forward in any direction, but she won't even admit that she wants sex from this man. I feel it is invasive for me to ask directly, but really, this is kind of important, so maybe I should just buckle up for a weekend of feeling like crap while I try to convince my wife to talk like an adult about critical adult things.

 

[costanza]

It sounds like your marriage is just about perfect in every way, other than this one little thing. The only problem with that is, it's not a little thing -- not at all. You may have come up against a line of hard incompatibility, in which case, you may be going through the stages of grief in anticipation of what's surely to come. Maybe you are in the stage of bargaining right now. I'm sorry to say that. I hope I'm wrong.

Possibly. I can tell there are definitely stages. I don't know if they follow a particular pattern or order conventionally or if this is literally it:
denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance

For me, it was sympathy first. My wife was hurting and needed something I was either not providing or not able to provide, so I went down the path of support.

I was in denial that this was a long-term physical thing. I was sold on an internet boyfriend thing and that crossed the digital divide fairly quickly.

Jealousy/anger-- I don't know. I suppose in some kind of confusing way. I don't tend to get that feeling of jealousy, exactly. I know my worth and what I do for her. I just don't understand the part where others want a tangential relationship in addition. Not my life though, so I can't dictate that.

Bargaining-- maybe. Aren't we all always? Good communication is a constant bargain. We discuss where we go next and take it slowly. But I have never amended my stance from the beginning, and she has never directly asked for more. She has alluded with phrases like wanting bodily autonomy, but she has never actually sat me down and stated it is something she needs. When we say things in a sort of heated moment, we tend to reflect on and examine what we said, and if we mean it. It's just how we communicate. So even though she threw out wanting bodily autonomy, she has never asked for it in the format we agree on. Likewise, I mention not being able to handle this, and that she may need to divorce me, but I didn't actually ask her to stop in the format we agreed on.

I am just talking to her like a human being. If the day comes where I genuinely believe someone will be irreversibly hurt by what we are doing, I will then invoke my right to abort and see if she honors the agreement or defects. I haven't done this yet, because I still feel I haven't given this an honest try. I have no idea what that means exactly, but I think I will when I hit the stopping block, if that happens. I expect this to be hard, and it is very hard. But I am not willing to give up on my wife so easily.

Depression-- way ahead of this list. I was depressed over the death in my family. That sort of lifted when this polybomb happened, and I was actually doing very well at first, because she seemed so happy. But as time went on and she consistently checked off the list of things that went wrong in my other poly relationship, I started seeing this as an inevitable disaster. My only hope was to be far more skeptical about things and move much slower. She has been agreeable on that front. Her boyfriend, however, seems to want to go full speed, no matter what I say. He's a self-declared "bull," and says he has to exercise restraint to conform to my schedule, which, there is no schedule. I'm a more go with the flow guy and make no promises.

Acceptance-- maybe that's apathy. I'm close. I never want to jail her. I have always, even from the beginning of our marriage, accepted that we would need a divorce if either of us ever wanted a life outside the one we joined into. People change. Things happen. It is a reality. I am not one of those people who will ruin another life to maintain whatever I call picture perfect. It would devastate me, but it would be far less painful than having to endure the excruciation I would be facing if I consented to my wife having an affair, blatantly or secretly.

However, I am thoroughly convinced she avoids the subject because she knows how her daughters would choose if custody became an issue. I am a very "let them decide for themselves" person, and given this situation, I feel it would be hypocritical of her to insist on having autonomy, and then forcing the kids to divide their time, and spend any of their lives in this man's house, knowing what they know about it all. (I'm assuming her move would be to move in with him, but I'm not sure.)

I am very open. I talk to my daughters about everything. They know how this is affecting me. I would be genuinely shocked if either chose to live with her, even 50/50. So I don't think I am the one who hasn't accepted reality. I just don't know if I am being cruel by even trying to work with them.

I hope you're wrong, too. Maybe she is just weighing things and will decide this is something she doesn't really need. I would like to talk to her to make sure it hasn't gone too far into the serious realms. The more exposure they get, the more likely that new relationship energy will resonate. At least that's what I believe, having seen this in others.

 

[GalaGirl]

I hope you feel better for talking it out some. I still think you'd benefit from an actual poly counselor. Suicide is SERIOUS. Talk to your health care people.

You are grieving a recent death. You also seem kind of "people pleaser," and losing yourself in all that. You put everyone else first, consider your well being last. Even in a plane crash they tell you to put your own oxygen mask on first.

www.polyfriendly.org might help you find a counselor. You might also consider family therapy. I don't know the ages of the kids, but be careful you aren't oversharing TMI details with them.

You know too much about the "Bull BF." Your wife is oversharing with you, or he is. It sounds like a lot of poor boundaries here.

I don't know if it is best for everyone if I simply say right here and now - this is not going to work. Choose to be platonic or an amicable divorce. That seems like I am insisting on an ultimatum that will almost positively be seen as an attempt to control their lives. That may seem like manipulation on all ends.

What's wrong with you hitting your dealbreaker point? You are allowed to have them.

If you don't want to frame it that way, like she has to choose? YOU choose, then. You could say, "I'm not going to tell you what to do about your BF, or how to share your time, energy, or body. But this isn't working for me, so I'm stepping back."

And then you do whatever "stepping back" means to you -- separate bedrooms, moving out to your own place for a year's lease and trial separation, or even filing at the court house for as amicable a divorce as possible.


Your consent to do things or not belongs to YOU.

• You do not have to accept her cheating affair.
• You do not have to try to help "convert" the affair into poly
• You do not have to do polyamory/open marriage with her. Or at all.
• You don't even have to do marriage, if over the years you both have changed and are not compatible.

Deep down, I feel like I am expecting my wife to kill a part of her soul to remain in a marriage that might be completely fulfilling in every way, except the multiple-sex-partner way. I don't know how hard that is for poly people to deal with, and everyone is different, so there may be no universal answer.

I would not kill my soul for you. I'd disband the marriage. But I also don't cheat on agreements, which is how all this got started. She started up a cheating thing and is trying to repackage it as polyamory.

Gently... do you kind of "expect" your wife to do soul-killing things because YOU are willing to do them to yourself? Is there any codependency here? If so, you might talk to a counselor about that, and look into www.coda.org , also.

Why is "saving the marriage" more important to you than "save the well-being of the people?" You changed before. You used to not know each other. Then you met, became friends, dating, engagement, marriage, cohabitation, kids, in whatever order those happened in. What's wrong with changing again to a divorced co-parenting family, if that allows people to be healthier and at peace, rather than all tied up in knots?

What are you trying to model or teach the kids here for when they grow up and date? Healthy things or unhealthy ones?

Conversely, I feel almost like I am being bullied into consenting to her having an affair.

Not you aren't.

Even now you can say "No, I tried. But I am just not ok with this." You might benefit from reading the consent cartoons.

Everyone should see these cartoons about society and sexual consent

Alli Kirkham is a cartoonist from Los Angeles. When the editors at the Everyday Feminism site asked for a comic on consent, she said she immediately volunteered.She came up with seven three-panel comics on the theme of "what if we treated all consent like society treats sexual consent", and they...

www.indy100.com

She recently said something like "we need to take a month away from each other" which sounds a lot like she is expecting to run off, leave me with kids for a month, do whatever she wants, and then expect me to be there when or if she comes back.

I actually think a trial separation for a month or even longer might be a GOOD thing.

You could agree and you both go talk to a lawyer about separation agreements. Maybe one of you moves out and you agree on coparenting things. And you live your life and she lives hers. See what that's like. Go to couples counselor or not during the separation. Date other people or not. Figure stuff out.

One family I knew got a two-bedroom flat so each parent got their own room. They took turns being at "The Kid House" or "Parent at the Flat" so changes for the kids was minimal. They could not afford two flats so the parents got their own. They did that for a year while organizing divorce things during their separation. Some things take time to disband. But theirs was intentional decoupling. Not everyone has the temperament to take that path.

It was better for the kids than another divorcing family I know, who traded the kids off at school DAILY. That was terrible for those kids.

One doesn't decide things and make big decisions on a whim -- so I encourage you to take a deep breath and talk to a counselor first so you have some support. Then add the other professionals you might need.

But NO. You do not have to be up for this.

Galagirl

 

[Evie]

I get that part. What I don't get is why she chooses to say this with such abstraction and not specifically stating that it means she wants a sexual relationship vs something far less problematic, like asking if she can go to movies or something with him. It's like she doesn't want to say the words to me in fear of my reaction since I am not polyamorous.

I also don't know why she is so offended when I suggest an amicable divorce is necessary if she wants multiple sexual partners. How is that more shocking than your wife basically saying she wants to be married to you, but also wants to sleep around regardless of how I feel about it? I have no problems elaborating on the necessities of moving forward in any direction, but she won't even admit that she wants sex from this man. I feel it is invasive for me to ask directly, but really, this is kind of important so maybe I should just buckle up for a weekend of feeling like crap while I try to convince my wife to talk like an adult about critical adult things.

It certainly sounds like you're trying get blood out of a stone, communication wise. You could just bite the bullet and separate. Start moving towards that divorce option even if she won't talk about it.

 

[Magdlyn]

My wife was hurting and needed something I was either not providing or not able to provide, so I went down the path of support.

Was she hurting because of your parents' deaths too, or something else?

I am sorry you and wife are going through this, but I feel the need to be blunt. Call it tough love. I want to cut through some of the... ahem, bull.

I was in denial that this was a long-term physical thing. I was sold on an internet boyfriend thing and that crossed the digital divide fairly quickly.

Where on the internet did she meet him? Is he local? How did this even become a thing, wife enmeshed with a bull, of all things?

I don't tend to get that feeling of jealousy, exactly. I know my worth and what I do for her. I just don't understand the part where others want a tangential relationship in addition.

I don't get jealousy from what you've written. Jealousy stems from fear of loss, and you seem quite willing to step aside and let her start a new life with this guy. ("Tangential relationship in addition": fancy words for: have sex with horny bull dude.) That sounds kind of... detached? Submissive? Something... Aren't you interested in "fighting" for her, for your relationship? She's only been seeing him for a few months, and you've been with her 20 years, you have two kids. She never showed signs of polyamorous tendencies before.

You're just going along with it to make her happy, but at what cost?

Good communication is a constant bargain.

I think the "stages of grief" consideration is the wrong tack. Good communication means being clear and honest, stating needs and desires, being honest. You might work out compromises, but it's not a "bargain," per se.

We discuss where we go next... She has never directly asked for more. She has alluded with phrases like wanting bodily autonomy, but she has never actually sat me down and stated it is something she needs.

Maybe she has trouble talking about sex. Obviously if this guy is, as you say, a "self-declared bull," who "plays with couples," he's looking to make you his cuck, and you're going along with that, letting him woo the both of you. And you do this giggle giggle, gay besties thing with your wife. Why? Are you bi? It sounds like you're against polyamory now, since you tried it in the past once and it didn't go well.

Why flirt with it now?

"Just to make my wife happy" is not an acceptable answer.

Even though she threw out wanting bodily autonomy, she has never asked for it in the format we agree on. Likewise, I mention that she may need to divorce me, but I didn't actually ask her to stop in the format we agreed on.

What is this "format you agreed on"? (More fancy wording that isn't clear.)

I am just talking to her like a human being.

How do you talk to someone "like a human being"? As opposed to what? An animal? An alien?

If the day comes where I genuinely believe someone will be irreversibly hurt by what we are doing, I will then invoke my right to abort and see if she honors the agreement or defects.

You mean, you will leave her. Your language is vague. "Abort." Maybe you both use euphemisms instead of speaking plain. "Abort," "bodily autonomy," instead of "divorce," "sex with another man."

Then you both turn to self harm? Turning your pain on yourselves? Self harm, thoughts of suicide? That's fucking serious, my dude. Why so resistant to therapy?

I haven't done this yet, because I still feel I haven't given this an honest try. I have no idea what that means exactly, but I think I will when I hit the stopping block, if that happens.

This is more word salad, in my opinion. I'm sorry, can you be more clear? What's this "stopping block" metaphor?

I was depressed over the death in my family. That sort of lifted when this polybomb happened, and I was actually doing very well at first, because she seemed so happy.

You let her NRE endorphins work on you like a drug. You are so entangled with her, her excitement over her crush actually lifted your depression/grief?

My only hope was to move slower. She has been agreeable. Her boyfriend seems to want to go full speed, no matter what I say. He's a self-declared "bull," and says he has to exercise restraint to conform to my schedule. There is no schedule. I'm a more go with the flow guy.

Um, if there is "no schedule," it's okay if he just fucks her tomorrow? I don't think so. "Going with the flow" does not mean that, right? You're not eager to sit in the cuck chair, right?

Bulls aren't into relationships for dinner dates and walks in the park. He's got an agenda. He's willing to play the game. He might even be getting off on the pursuit. But be assured, as a "bull," he has a definite goal. SEX.

He might be a player. Your wife may be a bit naive... She might be thinking vaguely on purpose, or because she's used to burying her feelings (and turning to self harm instead of seeking therapy, when she's upset?).

maybe apathy.

You do seem strangely apathetic. Dissociated? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I have alway accepted that we would need a divorce if either of us ever wanted a life outside the one we joined into. I am not one of those people who will ruin another life to maintain whatever I call picture perfect. It would devastate me, but it would be far less painful than having to endure the excruciation I would be facing if I consented to my wife having an affair.

What has changed? It doesn't seem you even know. We aren't therapists here. And this isn't polyamory. A bomb was dropped, but I wouldn't call it a polybomb, even, exactly.

We never recommend "relationship broken, add new people" though.

You and wife both seem dangerously on the edge of hurting yourselves, quite literally, and are now hurting each other, emotionally. To me (and I could be wrong), instead of facing this situation head-on, you're coping with 3 dollar words, vague euphemisms, metaphors, and slightly hysterical gay bestie giggles.

She avoids the subject because she knows how her daughters would choose... I am a "let them decide for themselves" person. I feel it would be hypocritical of her to insist on having autonomy, and then forcing the kids to divide their time, and spend any of their lives in this man's house, knowing what they know about it all. (I'm assuming her move would be to move in with him, but I'm not sure.)

NO, your wife doesn't move in with her "bull" of a few months. What on earth makes you think that? He's looking to bang your wife in front of you. He doesn't even want a real gf to date, much less live with, as if she were wife material. At least, by IDing as a bull, that is never the intent.

Why do you think polyamorists immediately move in with their new partners if their long-term marriages/relationships are harmed by opening up? Most people (mono, poly, or whatever) don't move in with lovers of a few months. And if they do, they shouldn't. That's a bad, NRE-drunk, immature action to take, that usually doesn't go well.

Unless your wife was really dissatisfied in your marriage, and wanted out from the beginning, and is using the word "polyamory" to cover up a desire to "monkey branch" out into another relationship as she exits the one with you, in which case, ugh. She barely knows this guy. She's a mom of two minor children. If she wants to leave you, she could/should get her own place. The kids don't need a horny bull step-daddy.

I am very open. I talk to my daughters about everything. They know how this is affecting me. I would be shocked if either chose to live with her.

How old are your daughters that you've told them "Mommy has a boyfriend, and I am devastated"? Is that really appropriate or helpful to them at this time? Are you VENTING to them?

Even if they are older teenagers, this is not their problem. It's yours.

I don't know if I am being cruel by even trying to work with them.

Maybe she is just weighing things and will decide this is something she doesn't really need. I would like to talk to her to make sure it hasn't gone too far into the serious realms. The more exposure they get, the more likely that new relationship energy will resonate. At least that's what I believe, having seen this in others.

Oh, she's in NRE already.

Please get some counseling. I don't call this polyamory. It seems to be some sort of unhealthy coping strategy for un-dealt-with deep emotional issues of some kind or another. On both your parts.