Am I getting better or worse? (cheating wife)

DazednConfused said:
:) Great in theory, sucks in practice. Last night Nora went to a concert with Nick and Maya... I passed and stayed home fixing up my new accommodations.

She came home, we talked for a few, went to bed.

It's all just so damn hard. This is killing my self esteem. I don't feel wanted or needed. While she says it all the time, I just can't feel it. It's not her. I'm too much in my own head.
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If I look at this from a relationship POV, I myself went through this. I broke up with my first "wife" and moved into the spare room. It was just brutal and took me some time to get over. A couple of things I did to stop my wallowing:

1. No cuddling. Relationship is done. This just ends up hurting.
2. No sex. I failed at this, but it worked in my favour. By pushing away the cuddling, she came in for sex one night, desperate. That last night of sex was the best thing for our relationship. I ended up realizing I could do better, and kicked her out of bed and moved out the next day. She was a cheater, btw, so I was very bitter at that point.
3. MOVING OUT

I would recommend you keep this separation fairly solid. Her coming into your room will only keep that wound open. You need space, you know that. Obviously, the spare room move doesn't sound like it's working.

Sorry to hear about your family's health challenges and the losses. Sending some support your way. Familial loss is always tough.
 
I really think that removing yourself should not mean that Nora gets to come in and be with you when SHE is feeling guilty or in need. She has not respected your needs, at all. I think it's time to put your foot down and tell her it's your room, your space. She doesn't get to be needy here. She hasn't earned that. You need that space to regroup. Don't give her the option. It's not her right to be in there, right now.

This is making me so angry today. I'm sorry. I don't mean to sound like l'm barking out orders. It's my opinion, of course, and today completely laced with my crap.

Keep at it, grrl. What you should do will come together, all in good time, if you get your space.
 
Not barky at all. I always appreciate the input.

Tonight Nora and I are going to the fair together, phone-free. Hopefully that will help. Tomorrow is a concert with all the usual suspects.

When Nora told me she was going out with Nick after the concert, I got a bit cranky. The thought of 'handing her off' after the concert got under my skin. Then she invited me. Grrr... either invite me in first place or don't. I sure as heck don't wanna feel like a third wheel, being pitied.

No matter what comes out of this, we're certainly going to have improved communication skills.
 
Wow. Does it matter if it's love or lust?

Nora just told me she's in love with Nick, and he with her. They declared their love on Sunday.

I don't know how to feel or react. It would be so much easier if the three of us could ever spend any darn time together and hash this out.

I don't even know if it makes a difference.

I know I love her truly, madly, deeply. I'm scared on so many levels. I don't know if this impacts it or not. I'm just kind of in shock. I was (am?) trying to accept polyamory, but neither of them are giving me the opportunity to.

Now this revelation... I just don't know. I'm still not sure if I can deal with it on a relationship level, let alone a love level. In some ways, I suppose it could be better. In others, it just turns this whole mess into a nightmare of epic proportions.
 
In your head?

It's all just so damn hard, this is killing my self esteem, I dont feel wanted or needed in the slightest. While she says it all the time, I just cant feel it. It's really not her, Im too much in my own head.
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You're too much in your own head? Maybe the reason you don't feel it is her actions aren't supporting it. Words are easy. Actions show sincerity.

Anyhow, hugs. Keep hanging in there.

Anotherbo
 
Hi DazednConfused,

I am enough of a romantic to think that it is better if there is real love, rather than just lust (not that there is anything wrong with just lust). My definition of love is Robert A. Heinlein's: "Love is the state where your own happiness is dependent on your loved one's happiness."

However, for someone that claims to love you, Nora has shown a very low regard for your happiness. Also, she might use this as an excuse to trot out that cruel and untrue canard, "All's fair in love and war." This love declaration may be an excuse for her to be even more insensitive about how she is treating you. Also, this is likely going to work as an excuse for not being responsible about Nick's infidelity.

I am not surprised you are of two minds about their bombshell.

Along with your mom having cancer, I agree with the other posters (from the other thread) that you need a time out and more emotional space.

Hang on. There are tonnes of people here on this site that honor and respect your ethics and admire how you have tried to keep to the high moral road, despite how things have gone. It is not your fault. You have every right to feel hurt about her ignoring how you feel. This is completely apart from their sleazy behavior.

Not sure what else to say. Be strong.

Very warm regards,
Rick
 
Okay. I feel that I know you a bit now, and think I can kinda give you a bit of a wake-up call.

Hello?!!!!

THEY ARE NOT POLY! THEY ARE CHEATING! IT'S ALL BULLSHIT. IF THEY KEEP TELLING EVERYONE THEY ARE POLY, I WILL PERSONALLY COME OVER THERE AND GIVE THEM A BLAST OF SHIT MYSELF.

They make those of us who actually make an effort look like the assholes they have been to you.

Please tell them from me that poly is about respectful, compassionate communication with everyone involved, and most of all, loving all of our partners enough to consider their feelings and needs.

Here is a thread about all the lessons learned about poly.
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2858

I suggest Nora reads it. I hope she gets on the poly bandwagon, or starts calling herself a cheater.

No disrespect meant. I'm just saying what it looks like me. That's my two cents on what I know of your situation.
 
redpepper said:
Hello?!!!!

THEY ARE NOT POLY! THEY ARE CHEATING! IT'S ALL BULLSHIT. IF THEY KEEP TELLING EVERYONE THEY ARE POLY, I WILL PERSONALLY COME OVER THERE AND GIVE THEM A BLAST OF SHIT MYSELF.
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redpepper said:
They make those of us who actually make an effort look like the assholes they have been to you.

Please tell them from me that poly is about respectful, compassionate communication with everyone involved, and most of all, loving all of our partners enough to consider their feelings and needs.
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Hear, hear, RP!
 
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I think I goofed by creating a new thread, mods should/could we merge?

I don't know why, but Nora's confession gave me some clarity. I don't know if it means I care more, or I'm just growing colder, or...? I am certainly spending way too much time in my head.

Yesterday I lost control. She invited me to the master bed. I, well, you know... and went back to the spare room. She was very upset by this. We discussed it. We're kind of in a "to-be-determined" place in the physical realm. She said she felt cheap and used, and I can see why.

We had a long talk yesterday. I asked her, out of curiosity, if she would be okay if I went out and found a fuck.

I've never been the relationshippy type. This is more my style, I think, than poly ever would be.

She really couldn't give me an answer. She said she needed to think about it, that she realized it seems unfair, but she's poly. I just want to go fuck someone. There's a big difference. I don't disagree.

I found the whole conversation very entertaining. I did tell her, if I were in a position to do something like that, I would touch base with her for her approval, no surprises.

We talked about the potential for her and Nick to pick up a third playmate on occasion. I told her fine, as long as it wasn't a woman. She advised me that he'd said the same about her and me and a man.

She's very frustrated by this, which I find hysterical.
 
It sounds as if Nora is just beginning a journey, one that satisfies her desire for complete free rein to do whatever she wants, with whomever she wants. It also sounds like she is discovering that finding partners quite that accommodating is often very hard.

I do find it hilarious that the guy she is having an affair with would limit whom she can play with, considering he's fucking around on his partner. He's got quite the moral code going there.
 
I agree! There's a great humor to it.

So, basically, Nick and I have both said if she wants a threesome, it will be us three. But that's not enough for her. There's quite a comedy in this tragedy. She feels uncertain now, after asking me repeatedly for a threesome between us, because she's not sure she wants to share that intimacy. Which I get completely.

But now I'm put in the position, if I want a male partner, it can only be Nick, as Nora has basically said me picking someone up makes her uncomfy, that Nick has said no other males for the two of us, but she's not certain that she wants to share that.

:eek:

While I really don't care, I can take care of business pretty adeptly myself.

There's a great bitter irony here.
 
Perhaps it's time to kick the gate to her pasture wide open and let her run free. She just has to be aware that the security she feels in the relationship you provide may not be waiting for her. In fact, you hanging out in the pasture waiting for her return sounds unhealthy and unfair to you. You sound stronger today, which is good, my friend.

What a situation, huh?
 
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I don't know if it's the love confession, or the absolute hysterical comedy of all involved, but I do feel much better today. We had some solid communication yesterday. I really don't know if it shut my heart down more, or opened it up.

Tonight I'm going to join Nora, Nick, Maya and some other friends at a concert. I understand Nora and Nick may wander off for a few minutes of alone time, which I can only interpret as a make-out session. And I'm kinda okay with it. Obviously not thrilled, but kinda okay. Maybe I've just broken, or... I really don't know.

I'm the point where I'm going to try and act with as much honor as I can, all things considered, try to get out of my head, and try to enjoy myself. I don't know if I'm giving up, giving in, or jumping in. I do know it's going to get interesting, regardless.
 
Let me get this straight... Nora can go out and pick her partners (without your input), but you are only allowed to be with the partner she picked for herself? I also don't understand why you are in the guest room, while she gets the master. This seems a bit like emotional abuse to me. Did I miss something?
 
Welcome to my convoluted world.

Now Nora is thinking she doesn't want me with Nick. She is leaning towards she's poly, but if I wanna go get a quickie, that that would be cheating, as I don't see myself as poly.

But she's still considering it, and I'm fine with giving her time to think.

I chose to leave the master bedroom, as being close to her in that intimate space, that they've now shared, is just too much. I wind up lying awake all night with all my ugly thoughts.

Nora certainly wants me in that bed every night.
 
DazednConfused said:
I chose to leave the master bedroom, as being close to her in that intimate space, that they've now shared, is just too much. I wind up lying awake all night with all my ugly thoughts.
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I can understand that. It does sound like you guys need some definite boundaries. I would never be comfortable with my partner using our bed with someone else, and vice versa. I would even have serious reservations of anything happening in my own home. But as far as I am concerned, my bed is off limits.

I know a lot has already happened, but maybe it's not to late to insist on certain boundaries from this point forward.
 
Nora hasn't respected any of the requests for boundaries that Dazed has asked for. Why would that change now? Why would she care about her request to not use their bed? I have seen little to no care all the way along.

It's interesting how much one person can put up with. Maybe I should be pushing harder for my needs to be met in my life. Fuck the going at the pace of the one who is struggling the most. Why bother when we can push each other to the brink and they still stay? After all, some people practice poly this way.

Who am I to say? I guess I just offer what I have worked towards and have found sustainable. Who says anyone wants sustainability, anyway? Maybe people like to abuse and mistreat others to get their needs met, and maybe some don't mind all that much being treated like that? Maybe my idea of mistreatment is different than others,' and in some circumstances the kind of treatment your wife has given you, Dazed, is perfectly acceptable and normal.

I would suggest that the depth of love in that kind of situation is shallow. But again, how does one rate that, anyway? It would be for me. I would suffer, now that I know what real depth is. When I am deeply in love with someone, I am completely unable to hurt them for my needs. They are a delicate flower in my heart that I cherish more than anything. I couldn't fathom squishing that for anyone.
 
redpepper said:
She hasn't respected any of the requests for boundaries that Dazed has asked for. Why would that change now? Why would she care about her request to not use their bed? I have seen little to no care all the way along.
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Sorry, I missed those posts. This is very sad.
 
I don't know if it was moving into the spare room, or just enough time passing, or I've just gotten my ass beat so bad, but I'm getting numb to the pain.

I totally get the frustration about the cheating, and I certainly do not consider it acceptable to pin it on poly. I don't believe that's what this community is about, at all.

It's interesting how much one person can put up with. Maybe I should be pushing harder for my needs to be met in my life. Fuck the going at the pace of the one who is struggling the most. Why bother when we can push each other to the brink and they still stay? After all, some people practice poly this way. Who am I to say? I guess I just offer what I have worked towards and have found sustainable. Who says anyone wants sustainability, anyway? Maybe people like to abuse and mistreat others to get their needs met, and maybe some don't mind all that much being treated like that? Maybe my idea of mistreatment is different than others,' and in some circumstances the kind of treatment your wife has given you is perfectly acceptable and normal.
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I don't think it's normal at all. I constantly ask myself "How could she hurt me like this if she loves me?"

On the same token, I love her enough to allow it. I'm certainly strong enough to take the punches, with the help of friends and mentors such as all of you, keeping me mentally in balance(ish).

I do love her enough to be totally committed to her happiness, at the sake of my own. On the same note, how can I stop her from discovering who she is? Doesn't she need to do that both for herself, and for us?

I still don't know if I'll stay, but I do know I'll try for as long as I can. It has changed us forever, but maybe I can live with the change. Only time will tell.

The two of them are so pathetic at hiding their infidelity. Neither listens when I point out their errors. I guess they just chalk it up to me being bitter. I don't know.

Last night, Maya and I talked for about an hour about her relationship with Nick, his cheating, her not wearing her wedding ring, him sleeping on the couch. I could only act as a friend (with the restriction of protecting Nora). I gave Maya hard, honest advice, like I would give any good friend, just, obviously, excluding that Nora was sleeping with Nick(!). Maya can see from his behaviour that he's still cheating on her. She ran through the weirdness of his schedule for the last few weeks, day-by-day, and she was about 90% on track.

They are being so sloppy. It's like they want to get caught. I warned them both that I thought a mutual friend was onto them a few weeks back. (This person also has it bad for Nick.) Well, last night this friend confronted Nora, that she saw them together Sunday, and she knows.

Their lack of discretion is borderline psychotic.

I think I'm just at the self-preservation breaking point. I love Nora, and will love her in every way I can, when permitted to. I now have a pretty clear picture in my head that she's going to fuck whom she wants, when she wants. The problem is, she's never had a one-night stand. I'm pretty confident that she's fallen in love with everyone she's ever fucked.

I've gotta shut off the pain it causes, live my life, enjoy Nora when/while I can, hope for the best... some middle ground, some sort of peace in my heart, mind, and body.
 
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