Am I getting better or worse? (cheating wife)

[redpepper]

I have a hard time when people say "put yourself first." I think I like: "I am my own primary." It kind of indicates that we think for ourselves and don't do things that we don't want to, but also consider others in that.

Dazed, I have thinking about your issue here. I am actually surprised that Nick has all three of you so wrapped around his finger. His wife, your wife, you... I don't think I've ever seen that before. I haven't known lesbians that allow that much of men in their lives. Interesting. I guess she's not actually a lesbian, really.

It's hard to know what is really going on, as I'm not there. It was just a thought. It has made me a bit angry, actually. So manipulative and controlling, somehow!

 

[DazednConfused]

Well, after another craptastic day, she got laid last night, and even had the class to come home with hickies. Gonna be awhile before I touch anyone besides myself. Majorly pissed.

 

[Mohegan]

I can't give you any advice, but I get it. I can't get turned on if Karma smells of his gf's perfume. And I have a personal distaste for hickies, so every time he comes home with one, I'm a mess. My big issue has always been if he's with someone but can't sleep with them, then comes home to me. I feel like a second-rate prize. I'm sorry. I know it isn't helpful, but I just wanted you to know I get it. I don't have an explanation, but I understand the feelings. I don't particularly have compersion for Karma and his gf, so maybe that whole comfort in the relationship theory has a lot to do with it. If he snuggles with his wife (a close friend of mine) and comes to me smelling of her, it doesn't bother me.

 

[Vexxed]

It feels like a pride thing. Why the hell do I wanna go there, if he just did, even though I REALLY want to?

I think it is possible that it is a pride thing. I've felt similar feelings. I have avoided performing oral sex on my girlfriend a couple of times because her other boyfriend is better at that than I am. He can give her an orgasm that way, and I have not been able to. So, rather than go down on her, only to think negative thoughts about how I'm inferior at pleasuring her orally, I just pass, and have intercourse with her.

That's only happened a couple of times though, because I usually still go down on her to give her a longer warm-up before intercourse, to experience the intimacy of it, and finally, to be that close to her gorgeous vulva!

 

[DazednConfused]

I had a long talk with Nora yesterday. I told her I'm at my wits end, my breaking point; that since this started, I've felt like she's leading a separate life and only involving me in the bad parts; that I need her to include me more on everything. I feel like it's my last, best hope to throw myself in as much as I can stand, and see if I can do this. We spent the day in each other's arms, I moved back into the master bedroom.

I just don't know.

Nick told her they need to cool it this week, because it's our anniversary week. She says to me 'he's one hell of a guy.' My mind goes right to, "No, the married guy fucking my wife is not one hell of a guy." I just can't help the nasty inside of me, the anger, the pain.

I forced myself to get past the hickies (grr) after writing him a biting message. He wrote back that it was an accident, that he's ready to stop for me. I just have to say the word. WTF? Mind-fuck much? Of course I can't 'say the word.' It's not up to me.

Another friend and a family member have caught on. Ugh, they are so clumsy!

We'll get the results of mom's biopsy this week, and hopefully a treatment plan. And it's looking more and more likely that my job may transfer me come October. Nora gets furious when I tell her my position might require a lot more travel. She says it will kill us, and I should just stay home and collect unemployment.

So... yeah. Mom has cancer, marriage is failing, job is failing. Feeling pretty damn good these days.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

He writes me back that it was an accident, and he's ready to stop for me, I just have to say the word. WTF! Mind fuck much? Of course I can't 'say the word'. It's not up to me.

Fuck it. Call his bluff. See if his word to you is any better than the words he says to the wife he's fucking around on. He's got zero credibility in the honesty department. Maybe he needs someone to prove it.

 

[DazednConfused]

LOL! I wish! The thing is, if he actually did end it, Nora would never forgive me for ruining it.

 

[SNeacail]

It's likely that my job may transfer me come October. Nora gets furious when I tell her my position might require a lot more travel. She says it will kill us, and I should just stay home and collect unemployment.

I'm sorry, this is just such a horrible thing to say to someone you love. There are lots of ways to make a relationship work when a job requires a lot of traveling. That comment was incredibly selfish on her part. You deserve someone who will support you. Unemployment benefits in your area must be better and easier to qualify for than where I live.

 

[DazednConfused]

I think she thinks, probably correctly, that if I wind up on the road more, with the current troubles we're having, our relationship wouldn't survive.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

If he actually did end it, Nora would never forgive me for ruining it.

I'm not sure what would be ruined anymore. You are constantly being disrespected. Maya is completely being discounted as a feeling human being as long as they continue their affair.

I guess you would be raining on their little parade. They are living in a fantasy world. I'd say they either want to get caught, to create a big change, because they aren't strong enough to make the move, or they are oblivious to the fragility of their delusionary world. For the record, they suck at having an affair. That is either a good sign, indicating a lack of practice, or a bad sign, indicating they simply don't give a fuck about how it affects you or Maya.

The whole situation reeks of selfishness, childishness, and sadness. I feel for you, my friend. Sorry it's such a downer.

 

[jkelly]

He told her they need to 'cool it' this week, because it's our anniversary week. She says to me 'he's one hell of a guy'. My mind goes right to "No, the married guy fucking my wife is not one hell of a guy." I just can't help the nasty inside of me, the anger, the pain.

I wouldn't discount your opinion here as being "the nasty inside of you." I mean, you may be angry and hurt, but you're also simply correct. Nick doesn't deserve praise for what he's doing, and it's alarming that Nora thinks he does. Just because you're angry doesn't mean your assessment of the situation is less accurate than hers.

He writes me back that it was an accident, and he's ready to stop for me. I just have to say the word. WTF! Mind fuck much? Of course I can't 'say the word'. It's not up to me.

I generally agree with everything Mono's written in his last posts, but I would also say that you're kind of right about this, and calling his bluff is probably not going to work. What is really up to you is what kind of relationship you want with Nora and your (former?) friend. I get that you still want to make your marriage work. I hope that you don't add sacrificing your career to the list of things you've done to hold onto it!

 

[DazednConfused]

I get that you still want to make your marriage work. I hope that you don't add sacrificing your career to the list of things you've done to hold onto it!

That's an excellent point I hadn't even considered.

Well, I think I have about two more months before the job decisions will come into play.

 

[AutumnalTone]

At this point, I can only wonder why you're still there. Walk on, dear lady.

 

[redpepper]

I'm wondering if you realize that Nora is not going to get out of your relationship what she needs. It looks like she will be moving on at this point, and is just avoiding the inevitable because of your sacrifices. She doesn't seem to be good at this sort of thing and is not able to achieve balance and integrity.

You are giving her the okay to be selfish and deceitful. You are also giving her the okay to treat people with disrespect. Those are not sustainable if she is to live a healthy life of vitality and happiness. I agree with whoever it was that said you are enabling her. You are, by your sacrifice. She will not be better off, is my guess.

You know, I think that if you were to bring about a crunch time it would end up with the same result as is going to happen, at this time, anyway. Its been proven that Nick has manipulated the situation. He says he will lay off fucking Nora for the week, to respect your anniversary? Bullshit. Maya is suspicious, and he's scared. That is not a "swell guy" thing to do.

Did you point that out to her? Not only that he says that if you want to call them off, he will back off? More bullshit. He's going to put this all on you if the shit hits the fan soon. He will be telling Nora that it's you who is to blame for their ending. Manipulation.

Wow, he's good! He's been walking around all proud of having his cake, and eating it too. I bet there is some of that "I converted a lesbian with my big cock" thing going on, too. "She just can't resist it. I'm going to give it to her whenever I can." I wonder if that is what he is thinking. That isn't love, that isn't respect, that's selfishness at the expense of others. These little fuck getaways they have? Are they about love, building a good foundation of relationship? I bet they aren't.

Oh, Nora is so going to get hurt with this one! He is using her up, would be my guess, and she isn't even noticing or caring. He will be sick of her soon and will look for a way out. I bet he is already doing that with his "You tell me to end it, and I will" comment. Not to mention the "we should take a break this week" one.

Have you been telling her what you are saying to us? Have your thoughts been translated into words? Have you been telling her what he says?

This so reminds me of my break-up with my wife. All my old guilt has come back. My ex-wife and I had a similar situation, whereby I introduced (current husband) PN into our lives and then did things like Nora is doing.

PN was cheating on his girlfriend with me and we pulled similar acts to be together. I was selfish and manipulative. It was years before she would talk to me again after that, even more before she would talk to PN. She was so angry.

I worked hard to earn her respect again. She deserved no less. We are all good now. I spent much time with her this week, as she is visiting. You can see the pics on FB. I still feel that overwhelming guilt of having done such a wonderful woman wrong, but that is my burden to carry. I should've been patient and respectful of her pace.

What ended it for us in the end was a big talk about our goals. We had different goals.

Emotions aside, I think that this is what you need to be talking about this anniversary. See if your goals still match up with each other, and if they don't, move on. Don't stay with someone and sacrifice. It's not fair to either of you. There is nothing that says you have to have a traditional relationship.

My ex-wife and I are best friends and were meant to be so. I wouldn't change that now for the world, as much as I would still love to have her in my life as a lover. Our happiness depended on not being together. It's better this way.

I would suggest you find out for yourself what your future should be for YOUR happiness, because if you aren't happy, you take everyone down with you.

 

[DazednConfused]

I'm wondering if you realize that your wife is not going to get out of your relationship what she needs. It looks like she will be moving on at this point and is just avoiding the inevitable because of your sacrifices. She doesn't seem to be good at this sort of thing and is not able to achieve balance and integrity.

She and I have this very candid relationship. If one asks the other a question, the answer is 100% honest. No holds barred, good, bad, or ugly. I've asked her time and time again, would you want me to leave if he were single? Every possible scenario. And she insists, almost to the point of anger, that she fully intends for us to be together for life.

You are giving her the okay to be selfish and deceitful. You are also giving her the okay to treat people with disrespect. Those are not sustainable if she is to live a healthy life of vitality and happiness. You are enabling her, by your sacrifice. She will not be better off...

I don't deny this at all. I carry the guilt of being equally responsible for the cheating.

Nick says he will lay off fucking your wife for the week to respect your anniversary? Bullshit. Maya is suspicious, and he's scared. That is not a "swell guy" thing to do. Did you point that out to her? Not only that he says that if you want them to call it off, he will back off? More bullshit. He's going to put this all on you if the shit hits the fan soon. He will be telling Nora that its you who is to blame for their ending. Manipulation.

Completely agree. I'm certain that's part of it.

Wow, he's good! He's been walking around all proud of having his cake, and eating it too. I bet there is some of that "I converted a lesbian with my big cock" thing going on too. "She just can't resist it, and I'm going to give it to her whenever I can." That isn't love, that isn't respect, that's selfishness at the expense of others. These little fuck getaways they have? Are they about love, building a good foundation of relationship? I bet they aren't.

Yup, I agree there too.

Have you been telling her what you are saying to us? Have your thoughts been translated into words? Have you been telling her what he says?

We talk a lot, probably too much. It seems to be, well, until yesterday, nothing but negative. I bitch, she listens. But we do talk.

I suspect she's peeked here more than once.

We were talking about how she'd feel if I wanted to just go out and get laid, she said she'd have to think about it, but for now, she kinda feels like it would be cheating, because, "It ain't poly if its just fucking around." I have no issue with it if she is lurking. Gosh, I wish she would more. Like I said, we're almost brutally honest as one of our most fundamental ground rules, so I have no issue with her seeing anything I've discussed with you folks.

No, I haven't told Nora what Nick has been saying. From what I've learned here, there needs to be some sort of trusting communication between him and me if this is ever going to work.

What ended it for us in the end was a big talk about our goals. We had different goals. Emotions aside, I think that this is what you need to be talking about this anniversary. See if your goals still match up with each other, and if they don't, move on. Don't stay with someone and sacrifice, It's not fair to either of you.

This is an awesome suggestion that I am certainly going to follow through with.

 

[redpepper]

I'm glad to hear you are bluntly honest. This is what has always worked best in our lives, too.

The thing is, you owe Nick nothing. I can't see one reason you wouldn't talk to Nora about what he says. He isn't used to honesty and openness. Show him how it works. I tell all my partners everything. I would let Nick know you intend to do so, though.

This whole thing about you going out to sleep with someone? It's not cheating to do so, if that is what you are into. People have open relationships to do just that.

Who is Nora to define what cheating is, anyway? She's cheating! He's cheating! Nick doesn't love her. I would bank on that. He is using her, as he has all the others he's cheated with. It's a high of some kind for him. I think he's almost done with her, actually. I wouldn't be surprised if he has his eye on another already. Pussy gets old fast when the NRE rush is over and you've just been using it to fuck. It's all good, if they are both into casual sex, but Nora thinks she loves him. It sounds like she will be hurt.

It's really too bad, because if she wanted another partner, who loves her and respects her, and whom she could love, she could've had that. It could've been good. Now it's just damage control, or not even, as no one seems to care about the damage.

Look, I am being really blunt here. You say it's what you "do," so that is what I'm giving. Of course, you don't have to agree, or it could be different for you. But it might be helpful to hear from an outside perspective. Take it or leave it.

 

[DazednConfused]

RP, you've never offended me with your honesty. Your wisdom and experience (and that of the others here) have truly been an invaluable resource for me. I agree with you almost every time.

I suspect their end isn't too far away. If Nora chooses to re-visit poly later, with a more loving effort, and a non-married partner, we may even be able to work through that. It's all the muck I have to walk through to get us there.

After yesterday, I'm at a much calmer place. Today I told her I'm moving back into the master. I requested, for now, if they could find another venue, I'd like some things sacred for just us. She agreed without holding back at all.

This week will certainly be trying. I'm pretty sure we will all be together on 3 or 4 occasions. I'm just gonna take one day at a time, and try and love her unconditionally.

 

[SNeacail]

No, I haven't told her what he has been saying. From what I've learned here, there needs to be some sort of trusting communication between him and me if this will ever work.

The trust needs to be that there will be no secrets from Nora. Nick and Nora both need to know that your relationship with her comes first. If anyone asks you to keep secrets from Nora, immediately tell them that you discuss and share everything with her, and that anything they share with you will be shared with her.

However, I agree with Redpepper here. Your descriptions of this situation just screams "teenage girl." She is acting like a spoiled teenager with absolutely no regard for the people she claims to love and wants to keep in her life. She wants what she wants, when she wants it, and everyone else better stay out of her way.

 

[DazednConfused]

The trust needs to be that there will be no secrets kept from Nora. Nick and Nora both need to know that your relationship with her comes first. If anyone asks you to keep secrets from Nora, immediately tell them that you discuss and share everything with her, and that anything they share with you will be shared with her.

He's never asked me to keep it between us. It's been assumed. If I want to say something just to him, I will tell him that. I believe he's never told me not to tell her, because he wants exactly that, to make me the bitter bad guy and start allowing him space for egress.

Nora is acting like a spoiled teenager, with absolutely no regard for the people she claims to love and wants to keep in her life. She wants what she wants, when she wants it, and everyone else better stay out of her way.

Absolutely. She has determined this is who she is at her core, and she needs to pursue it to be happy. I do not even begrudge her that, with the correct care and planning, with an unmarried poly guy. (No girls yet. I'd lose my shit.)

 

[redpepper]

Good for you, Dazed. You sound stronger. I hope that's true. Putting your foot down about the bedroom was a good call, I think. I hope it inspired you to do more regarding your own needs.