Am I really into non-monogamy after all?

[Ciniclibido]

Hello Forum,

I have been here a couple times asking questions about ENM.

So, my first approach with polyamory was with my most recent long-term partner. She told me she was a relationship anarchist beforehand and I told her “Let's try." Also, she had BPD (mildly treated). Tbh, the relationship went well the first months when we were just dating each other. Even so, she introduced me a guy after that “reaches out only when he is not busy working”. I was confused and my first approach was very difficult for me. I suffered extreme jealousy and I even had a breakdown after I met him. How does she get along with a guy that reaches out only when he is not “busy"? Is this a thing? Idk if it is normal in this kind of relationships. I think this is the only thing I started to “get along with”.

After that, she had a mental breakdown and I gave her some weeks of space so she could focus on herself. My surprise was when another guy appeared after this. Her “focusing” turned into drinking wine and having sex with this guy. This new partner was actually her friend. She told me before “We are just friends," but apparently it evolved during her crisis. A guy that took advantage of the situation by presenting as a “friend”? Hmmm... I am not sure if this is normal in this kind of relationship.

Now, I really wanted to murder this guy, like literally. I felt deeply cheated on. I don't know how to explain, but having sex with someone while you are anxious about her mental state weared me off. This was the moment I reached to a different therapy focused in ENM because these emotions were not normal.

After this happened, I met a girl and I starting dating her parallel to my long-term relationship. Actually, my long term was not being supportive in any way with this because it triggered her abandonment anxiety. Again, idk if this was normal.

Me and my long term broke up a month ago. Not sure if actually being monogamous could have been better for us.

Just as a side note, I have been seeing this girl I have been dating. This girl was actually never interested in polyamory and she just wanted a situationship out of me. I will break up with her soon.

After all of this that happened in a span of 5-6 months-- is this normal? Feeling so much turmoil, sadness, jealousy, trauma? I must admit that now I feel more jealous than when i was monogamous. But I also don't buy the “happily ever after” narrative of love, and I am curious to experiment with my sexuality with multiple people.

I am also scared that I could have adhd and codependent tendencies.

I read the books, listened to the podcasts, everything. I just find myself so lost, so devasted, so numb, so hurt. In relationship with mentally unstable girls and (in my view) toxic metas. Is this ENM thing being too much for me?

 

[Evie]

I am not sure if this is normal in this kind of relationships.

Let's get this straight...there is no normal in non monogamy. That's part of the point of it. We've bought out of the "normal" of monogamy. The lines blur between friends, lovers and relationships. Unless otherwise agreed. Sure polyamory can look like monogamy but with three people, but most of the time, it looks like "throw the (ridiculous ) monogamy rules that we grew up with by default and without critically examining before getting into a relationship" out of the window and actually make adult choices about adult relationships.

It sounds like you've had a hell of a lot going on in a very short time. Take a step back and get some perspective. Be the observer self for a moment. I know it's hard when you feel like you are the in middle of it, but we all have the capacity to observe our selves from the outside, even if for a moment.

You have an intellectual, possibly even emotional, understanding of non monogamy, but you're having difficulty with this experience of it. Because she is a little chaotic. It's hard being with someone with BPD. Cut yourself some slack here, you have made an honest attempt, but she may not be a good non monogamy partner for you. She's awesome and all that, but a bit self destructive. You don't have to be a part of that. You definitely don't have to save her from it. Good on you for sticking with the breakup.

And now you have a situationship that is drawing to a close. Great. Let it end.

And get back to you. You probably understand that ENM is great when you pick the right partners, and you are probably now better at picking the right partners now you've picked a couple of unsuitable ones. I did that, and now I'm happily polyamorous with three suitable partners. There is a way to be true to yourself here and just get better at it.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Cinic,

You have been experiencing/subjected to a number of things that are not normal in poly/ENM. It is not normal for her to get along with a guy that only reaches out when he is not "busy." It is not normal for a guy to take advantage of her crisis by presenting as a "friend." It is not normal (in poly/ENM) for her to not support you in any way when you have a new girlfriend. It is not normal for all of this to happen in the space of five to six months. It is not normal for you to have to feel so much turmoil, sadness, jealousy, and trauma.

You certainly seem to be interested in poly/ENM, but maybe it is too much for you. I think part of the problem is that you have been dating (trying to date) women who were not stable, who did not support you, who deviated from the norm. You may be able to explore poly/ENM if you can find better people to date. Is there something that attracts you to difficult partners? a white knight complex perhaps? I am just shooting randomly in the dark, I don't really know why you have had such terrible luck in poly/ENM so far.

I could of course be wrong.
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

You have been experiencing/subjected to a number of things that are not normal in poly/ENM.

You're welcome to your opinion, but I disagree. Here is another way to look at it.

It is not normal for her to get along with a guy that only reaches out when he is not "busy."

Sure it is. Many people are very busy and will reach out to let a partner know when they have some free time, whether it is two days from now, or right now. And we have the right to say, "I am not free to see you right now. I can see you on Thursday or Saturday," or whatever it is. Some people want to be super spontaneous. However, if someone is only contacting people to see them "right now!" they may be disappointed more often than not. Most people need a little notice to go on a date.

For example, fuckbois will message at 2am-- "u up?" We have the right to ignore that message, or to go, "Yes, I can't sleep, come over and let's have fun!" It's all about compatibility and personalities.

It is not normal for a guy to take advantage of her crisis by presenting as a "friend."

We are only seeing this from Clinic's perspective. Maybe his partner lied. Maybe she'd always had a crush on this guy. This idea that a guy took advantage of a poor drunk girl may or may not be true. Whether it's "normal" or not is besides the point. The question is around how she was taking a mental health break, and it was understood she wouldn't be dating others, but then she did have sex with someone. This does sound like the kind of spontaneous, perhaps risky behavior a person with barely treated borderline personality disorder might engage in, but really, it could happen to anyone under certain circumstances. We just don't know enough details to judge.

It is not normal (in poly/ENM) for her to not support you in any way when you have a new girlfriend.

Do we all have to "support our partners" in every way when they get a new partner? My bf dates new people from time to time. I just say, "Go have fun. I hope it goes well." And I give him some space. I don't make a big deal of supporting it. I don't invest much in anyone he dates until it's been going on for a while and is going well.

I guess Clinic might have meant his long-term gf was going into jealous rages, or crying, or whatever, before each date he tried to have with another woman. Or maybe whenever he told her he had a date coming up, she tried to make him cancel it. I don't know what he meant by unsupportive. She has abandonment issues. He has jealousy issues. These kinds of things need to be worked through to be able to have successful, healthy poly relationships.

What is "normal" anyway? No one's perfect. We can strive to be balanced and self-aware, etc., but we are all works in progress.

It is not normal for all of this to happen in the space of five to six months.

Sure it is.

It is not normal for you to have to feel so much turmoil, sadness, jealousy, and trauma.

It is "normal" to feel upset when we first try ENM. It's new. It's going to feel weird. Very weird. The "new normal" comes eventually. It's like developing any new skill, riding a bike, getting a new device, learning a new language, a new musical instrument, traveling to a new country. You're not going to be perfect right off the bat. It just takes practice, making mistakes, baby steps, having small successes. Things get better.

You certainly seem to be interested in poly/ENM, but maybe it is too much for you. I think part of the problem is that you have been dating (trying to date) women who were not stable, who did not support you, who deviated from the norm. You may be able to explore poly/ENM if you can find better people to date.

This I agree with.

Is there something that attracts you to difficult partners? A white knight complex, perhaps? I am just shooting randomly in the dark. I don't really know why you have had such terrible luck in poly/ENM so far.

I could, of course, be wrong.

We just don't know enough, so there's no need to place a value judgment of "normal/not normal" on it. I don't want anyone new to be reading this and thinking "OH NO! I am abnormal! My partner is abnormal!" It's true that polyamory is outside our cultural norm. As Clinic said, he's read all of the recommended books and things still feel strange. But he's only been trying to do it for half a year. We can be poly for years and still have that mono programming in the backs of our heads, popping up from time to time. But things do get better. There are poly people who've been doing it for decades and there are no struggles, outside of regular life ups and downs. "My boring poly life" is something you see on our blogs.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry this happened this way. I could be wrong in my impressions. It kind of sounds like your first poly partner was a bit of mess. Not everyone out there is healthy for dating.

There is NOTHING wrong with monogamy, if that is what you prefer. But if this first poly partner wasn't a match, that means THAT partner was not a match. It doesn't mean you aren't cut out for poly. It means you are not compatible for doing poly with them.

Some of the behaviors you listed would turn me off.

She told me she was a relationship anarchist beforehand and I told her “Let's try." Also, she had BPD (mildly treated). Tbh, the relationship went well the first months when we were just dating each other. Even so, she introduced me a guy after that “reaches out only when he is not busy working."

It sounds like she got caught up with NRE for the new guy and took you for granted. Maybe there are poly hell things:

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for

www.kathylabriola.com

How does she get along with a guy that reaches out only when he is not “busy"? Is this a thing? Idk if it is normal in this kind of relationships.

It sounds like she was willing to accept that arrangement. Just because it is "their usual behavior," or "their normal behavior," doesn't mean YOU have to find it enjoyable or acceptable.

After that, she had a mental breakdown and I gave her some weeks of space so she could focus on herself. My surprise was when another guy appeared after this. Her “focusing” turned into drinking wine and having sex with this guy.

I could be wrong, but sounds like maybe she was self-medicating with wine and sex, rather than attending to her health management plan in a more constructive way.

People can't help what they have -- cholesterol, diabetes, BPD, whatever. But if they are not doing their patient management plan, blowing it off or doing weird things? I'm going to break up and bow out because I need to think about my OWN well-being. I do not exist to be someone's enabler or crutch so they can AVOID doing their self care.

I have a personal boundary that I won't be friends or date unmanaged people. If they are doing their things, okay. A person can have a bad day or slip here and there. But not doing it AT ALL and then whooshing at me or sucking me dry? Hard pass. I'd rather be alone.

Now, I really wanted to murder this guy, like literally. I felt deeply cheated on.

Is that your undxd ADHD? Do you feel things really strongly?

It is odd to me that you got all mad at the guy, rather than at HER. If she cheated on (you + her) agreements, she's the one doing that behavior and it's okay to end it with her.

The guy? She might have been honest with him or lied to him. Who really knows?

This was the moment I reached to a different therapy focused in ENM because these emotions were not normal.

It sounds like you have a counselor. Good. Work through things with them.

After this happened, I met a girl and I starting dating her, parallel to my long-term relationship. Actually, my long term was not being supportive in any way with this because it triggered her abandonment anxiety. Again, idk if this was normal.

You can date on your side if you want to. It kind of sounds like your ex wanted "open for me and not for you."

Me and my long term broke up a month ago. Not sure if actually being monogamous could have been better for us.

Doubt it. Cheating would still be cheating in monogamy.

And not doing their health management? Still not doing it in monogamy.

Just as a side note, I have been seeing this girl I have been dating. This girl was actually never interested in polyamory and she just wanted a situationship out of me. I will break up with her soon.

Fair enough. Sometimes the people we date do not pan out long term. It happens.

After all of this that happened in a span of 5-6 months-- is this normal? Feeling so much turmoil, sadness, jealousy, trauma?

It sounds normal to me. You went through a difficult relationship, so here came all the feelings. After you finish breaking up with the other partner, you might want a time of being on your own. Have a dating break. Heal from all that happened.

I am also scared that I could have adhd and codependent tendencies.

You could talk to your doctor and your counselor. Could also look at www.coda.org if you need that.

You don't have to be scared. People come with the things they come with. It's more about addressing it and doing your patient management plan.

In relationship with mentally unstable girls and (in my view) toxic metas.

It might be time to raise the bar on your personal standards and NOT date unstable people. Or, if unstable metas arrive because the hinge doesn't know to pick healthy people? That's a problem. You could bow out then too.

YOU get to decide what is and is not acceptable in your relationships.

Whether you decide on monogamy, poly, or something else, you need to be as healthy as you can be, and the relationship needs to be HEALTHY too.

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf

Galagirl

 

[Ciniclibido]

Hello, thanks a lot for your replies, I appreciate them a lot.
I may address some additional information:

* She actually didn´t tell me about the guy she sees occasionally after 2 months of being together. That was a shock. This guy appears every X months. I know she is ok with that, but I am not ok on having a meta that doesn´t care about her.
* Probably there is some "saviour complex" here, I must admit. I need to keep working on this to avoid repeating the same mistakes.
* I am not sure of the implicit agreement of "I will do whatever I want with whoever I want and I will just inform you after". That's how it felt like. That's why it is so painful. Idk, am I being controlling if I wanted things to be slow and keeping me informed?

It is just that with these codependency issues, undiagnosed ADHD, my first poly being this traumatic... I don´t know if I can be a good poly partner for anyone too. I am starting to think that this ENM may be a nest for unstable people out there, but idk. it is just what pops in my head after my experience.

 

[Evie]

She actually didn´t told me about the guy she sees ocassionally after 2 months of being together. that was a shock. This guy appear every X months. I know she is ok with that, but I am not.

We have a term for this...a comet partner, or just comet for those who don't like the word partner. It's a relationship that has those long breaks between seeing each other. There can be great caring in those relationships, it just takes a different form than the daily contact ones.

 

[Magdlyn]

Thanks a lot for your replies, I appreciate them a lot.

And I appreciate that you're taking our feedback on board and thinking things over seriously! This isn't easy, I know.

I may address some additional information:

* She actually didn´t tell me about the guy she sees occasionally after 2 months of being together. That was a shock. This guy appears every X months. I know she is ok with that, but I am not ok on having a meta that doesn´t care about her.

You mean the guy who only gets in touch when he's "not busy"? He just swoops in every couple of months. It sounds like you want her to be with people who really love her, and for her not to have more casual relationships. But of course, it's her choice to date people casually if she wants to. But you feel protective. That's a normal human behavior, to protect our loved ones, and can be very nice. But some people might feel you are being overly protective, or smothering. My bf is quite protective of me... he's very nurturing... but he respects my space and autonomy too. There seems to be a balance we have worked out.

* Probably there is some "saviour complex" here, I must admit. I need to keep working on this to avoid repeating the same mistakes.

Good to have that insight.

* I am not sure of the implicit agreement of "I will do whatever I want with whoever I want and I will just inform you after". That's how it felt like. That's why it is so painful. Idk, am I being controlling if I wanted things to be slow and keeping me informed?

Every poly dyad needs to figure out how much interdependence they want, as opposed to autonomy and freedom. It's not a helpful thing to use superlatives like:
You are too controlling!
Well, you are too casual (implying someone is a slut, perhaps)!

It's best to learn how to use "I statements" when you're having relationship talks. That's part of Non-Violent Communication (Google that). "When you do X, I feel Y."
"When you date [every 2 month guy], I feel worried for your safety." (Or however you feel.)
People can't argue with your feelings. You feel what you feel!

It is just that with these codependency issues, undiagnosed ADHD, my first poly being this traumatic... I don´t know if I can be a good poly partner for anyone too. I am starting to think that this ENM may be a nest for unstable people out there, but idk. it is just what pops in my head after my experience.

You might be able to be a good poly hinge someday, but there's nothing wrong with working on your self-confidence, communication skills and so on, to get ready. That's much better than just jumping in blind and "going with the flow," only to get hurt and feel misunderstood, neglected, etc.

 

[GalaGirl]

* She actually didn´t tell me about the guy she sees occasionally after 2 months of being together. That was a shock.

There's nothing wrong with a comet partner. But there is something wrong if she's sharing sex with him and with you and you don't even know about changes in her sex practices/risk profile. She's not giving you full info. So you cannot give informed consent.

Even if I am fine with comet partners, I'm not down with violation of consent or lies of omission.

* Probably there is some "saviour complex" here, I must admit. I need to keep working on this to avoid repeating the same mistakes.

Yes. You don't have to go around white knighting. You don't have to go around saving people from themselves.

I am not sure of the implicit agreement of "I will do whatever I want with whoever I want and I will just inform you after". That's how it felt like. That's why it is so painful. Idk, am I being controlling if I wanted things to be slow and keeping me informed?

If you want EXPLICIT, you want explicit, then. Like each and every time you share sex with her, you ask, "Have there been new people or changes in risk profile on your side? Were condoms and safer sex practices used? On my side there was..."

That way, both are updating info and giving opportunity to give fully informed consent. You can negotiate if you will go ahead and share sex again or adjust practices or skip it and just not.

If you and she are not compatible, because you want explicit info and the ability to give informed consent, and she wants implicit and is not really talking about informed consent, you are not compatible then.

It's not "controlling her" to ask for what YOU need to feel safe and ok participating here. If you don't feel safe enough, you pass on doing X. or quit being here entirely. You break up and bow out.

She can keep on doing whatever she wants with other people. She doesn't have to stop. She's just not going to get to do anything with YOU. She's not entitled to have dating access to you.

It is just that with these codependency issues, undiagnosed ADHD, my first poly being this traumatic... I don´t know if I can be a good poly partner for anyone too.

It's ok to decide you had a rough experience and don't want poly right now, or ever. YOU get to pick what you are and are not up for.

I am starting to think that this ENM may be a nest for unstable people out there, but idk. it is just what pops in my head after my experience.

For some it is, because weird behavior would show up faster in monogamy. Having multiple partners allows some unhealthy people to "hide" their weird behaviors longer.

Or they could even be "missing stair" people.

Missing stair - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The missing stair.

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