Bad news?

N

notsureatall

Member
I've posted here before. https://polyamory.com/threads/new-here-out-of-my-depth.158013/

Over the years, my wife has made various suggestions related to other women. She tried to get me to take her friend out to a romantic restaurant once to thank her for something. (I refused.) Another time, she told me one of her friends (married) was attracted to me. I began posting here after she suggested an open relationship between me and a single female friend. At some point, the woman seemed to freak out, and backed off. I've often wondered if my wife said too much. My wife then said she was joking and not serious about me being with this other woman and me feel like the bad guy. Considering she brought it up for weeks, I find that hard to believe.

Things went quiet for a bit. I left things alone because I was confused. Then about two months ago, I was out at a work event and saw one of my wife's friends. I texted my wife just to say I'd seen the friend. About two hours later, I messaged her to say the work event was going on longer than expected and I'd be home an hour later than expected. When I got back she was asleep, but didn't speak to me for the next day. Turns out, she had read my texts as if I was going for a drink with this woman I briefly saw. My wife rarely displays jealousy. She apologized, but then did a total 180 on me that has me confused.

A few weeks later we were having sex, and my wife orgasmed, then said she wanted to finish me off with her hand. She told me to imagine I was having sex with this other woman. I protested and said I didn't want to orgasm thinking of that, but my wife said it wouldn't hurt her and if it made me orgasm that's all she cared about.

I've tried to talk to her since, and she's said she can see we have chemistry (I'd never really noticed), and she doesn't mind me thinking of this woman during sex or masturbation.

Right now, I don't think we are ready for polyamory, but I do worry that exploring this as fantasy could hurt my wife. I know that as a teenager and at college it was always her friends who got the hot guys. She felt they were never into her and she never felt attractive enough. This really scares me. There have been so many scenarios with other women over the years I've wondered if she is a cuck quean (?) as someone here suggested. It sounds like this fantasy would be harmful to her, and that makes me think I'm misreading it?

Any advice, or anyone who has gone through something similar, I'd love to hear from you.
 
I have not been through the exact situation, either as a woman myself, or with my current or past female partners. However, I have, of course, fantasized with my love/sex partners. Fantasy play and role play can be great additions to a sexual repertoire.

However, my concern here is that your wife seems (and I am sorry to say this), kind of weirdly out of touch with reality. She is imagining all sorts of situations, and putting them onto you, as if YOU desire this or that woman, and almost trying to force you to role play something you are not comfortable with. This is disrespectful of you, to say the least. And when you try to get to the root of it by explaining your true feelings, she disregards you and just carries on with her fantasies.

It sounds hurtful. I wouldn't say it's outright abusive, but it certainly shows a disconnect she has with who you actually are. It's almost like she's using you, or trying to, as a puppet, to play out her own fantasies, while you are unwilling and resistant. This is not good. And it never ends. No matter how you object, she keeps doing it, almost like an obsession.

Does that sound right? Are those ideas in line with your thoughts and feelings?

I suggested counseling in your earlier thread. Have you sought a counselor?
 
I'm not sure exploring fantasies hurts the person having them unless they're indeed out of touch with reality as Magdlyn suggests.
But you should be worried about hurting yourself in the process, being objectified like that.

My idea is, maybe try asking a lot of questions. Like "is it a fantasy of yours that I sleep with this other girl? is it arousing to think about that?", while maintaining it's not actually your cup of tea.
If she can own her fantasy as a fantasy, it seems safe to explore fantasy-land.
 
Magdlyn said:
I have not been through the exact situation, either as a woman myself, or with my current or past female partners. However, I have, of course, fantasized with my love/sex partners. Fantasy play and role play can be great additions to a sexual repertoire.

However, my concern here is that your wife seems (and I am sorry to say this), kind of weirdly out of touch with reality. She is imagining all sorts of situations, and putting them onto you, as if YOU desire this or that woman, and almost trying to force you to role play something you are not comfortable with. This is disrespectful of you, to say the least. And when you try to get to the root of it by explaining your true feelings, she disregards you and just carries on with her fantasies.

It sounds hurtful. I wouldn't say it's outright abusive, but it certainly shows a disconnect she has with who you actually are. It's almost like she's using you, or trying to, as a puppet, to play out her own fantasies, while you are unwilling and resistant. This is not good. And it never ends. No matter how you object, she keeps doing it, almost like an obsession.

Does that sound right? Are those ideas in line with your thoughts and feelings?

I suggested counseling in your earlier thread. Have you sought a counselor?
Click to expand...

My worry is that she pushes so hard, if she gets what she wants (fantasy wise), it's either going to really hurt her, or put us on a path that probably doesn't work for me. I've suggested therapy to her many many times, and she she always has reasons for putting it off. I've done quite a lot of therapy myself.

One of the challenges is that things can be fine for weeks or even months, then there is eruption of these fantasies, then she shuts down. I've wondered if I'm in some way causing this without realising it. I don't think so, but I can't be sure. I really struggle to see us going through this same cycle in 2 years, let alone 5 or 10.
 
Tinwen said:
I'm not sure exploring fantasies hurts the person having them unless they're indeed out of touch with reality as Magdlyn suggests.
But you should be worried about hurting yourself in the process, being objectified like that.

My idea is, maybe try asking a lot of questions. Like "is it a fantasy of yours that I sleep with this other girl? is it arousing to think about that?", while maintaining it's not actually your cup of tea.
If she can own her fantasy as a fantasy, it seems safe to explore fantasy-land.
Click to expand...
That's a great suggestion. Whilst talking in bed, after this, I did mention something that would work for me (a softer fantasy option) and she acted quite clinically and repeated back to me what I'd said in her own words. I confirmed she was correct, and she said something like 'interesting, I'll remember that' and went to sleep. That kind of stopped any further discussion.

My gut feeling is that she actively fights these fantasies I believe she has and tries to squash them down. Instead they keep popping out but she doesn't want to own them.
 
notsureatall said:
That's a great suggestion. Whilst talking in bed, after this, I did mention something that would work for me (a softer fantasy option) and she acted quite clinically and repeated back to me what I'd said in her own words. I confirmed she was correct, and she said something like 'interesting, I'll remember that' and went to sleep. That kind of stopped any further discussion.

My gut feeling is that she actively fights these fantasies I believe she has and tries to squash them down. Instead they keep popping out but she doesn't want to own them.
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It is sounding like she is fighting her same-sex desires, by projecting them onto you, because of unexamined internalized homophobia, right?

I'd have a hard time being partnered full time, and having a fulfilling sex life, with someone who won't look deeper into who they are, what they really desire, etc. But that's just me.
 
Lots of therapy, introspection, patience, and empathy? Maybe that answer is cheating.

I have some opinions about what’s going on under the hood, but really it just sounds like you’re not on the same page. At least one of you is not being as honest as necessary to move forward, but whether that’s with themselves or their partner is hard to say from here.
 
FeralGeek said:
Lots of therapy, introspection, patience, and empathy? Maybe that answer is cheating.

I have some opinions about what’s going on under the hood, but really it just sounds like you’re not on the same page. At least one of you is not being as honest as necessary to move forward, but whether that’s with themselves or their partner is hard to say from here.
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Sounds interesting but I don't quite follow.
 
I guess you could ask her what the feelings are behind these fantasies of hers.

Fantasy is a safe way to approach things, but she could just masturbate and fantasize, right? Why do you have to participate?

I suppose you could ask clarifying questions.
  • Could she be attracted to women herself, but doesn't want to "own" that, so wants to play it out "through" you? It seems "safer" to approach the idea that way?
    • Is this "late in life lesbian" realization?
  • Could she have interest in "cuckqueen" stuff?
  • Is she having an affair, and wants to "make it fair" by setting you up with someone and absolve herself of the guilt that way?
  • Does she want to break up, but wants to set you up first so she can leave without feeling bad?

I mean... we could sit here guessing all day. You have to actually talk to her and ask her.

Or... don't.

My gut feeling is that she actively fights these fantasies I believe she has, and tries to squash them down. Instead, they keep popping out, but she doesn't want to own them.
Click to expand...

It's okay to not "go fishing," and expect her to figure it out on her own, and articulate when she's actually really to talk WITH you. You don't have to exhaust yourself playing "mind reader."

My worry is that she pushes so hard, if she gets what she wants (fantasy-wise), it's either going to really hurt her, or put us on a path that probably doesn't work for me.
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Pushes WHAT?

Hurt her HOW?

And why would it put you on any path? You don't have to consent to things you don't want to do. You can say "No, thanks. I'm not doing that."

Even if she's all up and down, you can be decisive, and state what you are and are not willing to do. It is ok to be kind but firm.

  • You will engage in shared fantasy during sex on these topics: (list them)
  • You will NOT engage in shared fantasy during sex on these topics: (list them)
  • You are willing to go to couples counseling.
  • You are NOT up for polyamory.
  • You are up for a peaceful parting, if it comes down that.
If you aren't ready to tell her those things, at least tell your OWN self. It's ok to be a person with boundaries.

If you are going to do fantasy play, make up a person. Don't use people you actually know. That's sort of user-y. Even if they don't know you do that sort of sex fantasy about them, it's still objectifying people for your own sexual gratification. Be "cleaner" about it, and just make up fictional people. Or pick TV characters that are already fiction, even if played by real actors, so it STAYS fantasy level. YKWIM? Boundaries.

Galagirl
 
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Hi notsure,

Sorry your wife is acting like this. It seems to me that she is suffering from some kind of mental health issue, she is all over the map and can't even be a little consistent about how she feels or what she wants. I think she is sorely in need of counseling and medication. She needs a professional to guide her in unpacking some very deep and disturbing issues, the cause may be something buried in her past, or it may even be hormonal. It's definitely too soon for polyamory, she needs to address her mental health problem first. Do not let her jerk you around like this.

Sympathetic regards,
Kevin T.
 
Hi again. I'm not sure why you see this as bad news. To me, it sounds like the continuation of the same old stuff… confusing messaging, nothing clear cut.

I’ve heard and seen lots of stuff at this point, but I never heard of someone trying to get their spouse/lover off on "their" fantasy. To me, that sounds really off, odd. It’s like she’s jerking you off to a guided meditation or something.

It also begs the question, is that her SOP for sex with you, if she thinks you want or need that to orgasm? As I recall, your sex life has had some erratic patterns in terms of frequency, and has never been predictable.
 
dingedheart said:
Hi again. I'm not sure why you see this as bad news. To me, it sounds like the continuation of the same old stuff… confusing messaging, nothing clear cut.

I’ve heard and seen lots of stuff at this point, but I never heard of someone trying to get their spouse/lover off on "their" fantasy. To me, that sounds really off, odd. It’s like she’s jerking you off to a guided meditation or something.

It also begs the question, is that her SOP for sex with you, if she thinks you want or need that to orgasm? As I recall, your sex life has had some erratic patterns in terms of frequency, and has never been predictable.
Click to expand...
Going round in circles.
 
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