Can poly relationships be healthy?

L

Lani

New member
My husband and I started dating a unicorn, but decided that it wasn't a good fit. So now we're "single". So we've been reaching out to learn more about the poly community: multiple forums and discussion groups and stuff. But ...

We've met some nice people, but it seems like every couple we meet is unhappy with something. Sometimes it's just that they're unhappy sexually, and sometimes they're just incredibly unhappy with their relationship. I'm just wondering if this is the norm?

Our relationship is great - we communicate well, we work well together, we get along great, and we're very happy. And neither of us is dissatisfied sexually. We'd like to meet a unicorn or a couple (MF or FF) for a relationship, but we don't want to wind up getting involved in a relationship that is already on its last legs. We have a nice, drama-free thing; getting involved in a quad with a couple that's already struggling ... On the one hand, I'd find that unethical, as it's more likely that adding a poly to a struggling relationship will end it than save it. On the other hand, well... the drama thing ... :/

Is this normal? Is it normal for struggling couples to want to pursue poly relationships? Is it normal for me to be so skittish about wanting to avoid a struggling couple as a potential match? Am I just over thinking this?
 
I'm currently with half of a few couples, and I believe they have healthy relationships. I mean everyone involved is human and have their faults from that prospective, but nothing that raises a red flag.

I should note that everyone in my polycule has their own unique poly style, and no one is doing poly as a unit.
 
Is this normal? Is it normal for struggling couples to want to pursue poly relationships?
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There are some people who want to use poly as a "bandaid" to patch whatever is missing or broken in the existing relationship. Not everyone does this. But some do. It sounds like you have bumped into a lot of them lately.

Take heart -- not everyone is like that.

Is it normal for me to be so skittish about wanting to avoid a struggling couple as a potential match? Am I just over thinking this?
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I think it is normal to want to minimize drama for yourself. IMO, very few people want to go out and become big stress balls! I know I don't.

You might consider dating separately rather than as a couple. See if that expands your "dating pool" which in turn, might expand your "healthy people" pool.

Galagirl
 
Depends on a bunch of stuff.

I've found that younger people often have more "drama." That is my own perception and opinion. I prefer older partners (40's minimum, up to 60's) and this is a big part of the reason. Also looking at my own life, in my 20's I was still in the "don't really know myself, just coping with whatever life throws at me" phase. Trying to figure out how to adult properly, as opposed to really discovering who I am as a person, and being wise with myself. So I feel like folks in their 20's...they say your brain isn't even done developing until mid-20's anyhow...are not as stable as those who are a little older.

Then you have the question of whether both people in a couple are equally enthusiastic and consenting to poly. I see so very many cases where one person is all about it, and the other is just going along, even reluctantly, to keep the first person happy. That can be the makings of resentment and drama, too.

Then there is the question of your expectations. Do you expect a "happily ever after?" I've run into something recently which is apparently really common but it surprised me. Seems a lot of people view a successful relationship as one that never breaks up. And a break up or ending is a failure. Or is drama. Well, I can't wrap my head around "forever" as a possibility let alone a goal. So for me, I look at a new possible relationship and along with questions in my mind like "can I picture having sex with this person" I'm also asking, "what would a relationship ending look like, with this person?" So in my imagination I am thinking about how dramatic they are as a person, whether I can envision us just deciding to fade out, be friends, part ways respectfully...or if the default setting is gonna be tears and bad poetry and hysterics? And again, a lot of that goes back to maturity. Being mature enough to grok the fact that life goes on.

So I was in a quad for a year. And even though it did end, it did not end in an explosion of drama, near as I could tell. I felt it was fairly quiet. I am still on speaking and hugging terms with everybody, and there were no insults, loud fights or other sorts of craziness from anybody. It was just a "I love you guys but this isn't working for me" ending. And the relationship itself...we had a married couple who were early 40's, no kids, middle class income, fun, happy, low drama people. Then a boyfriend who was upper middle class income level, also no kids, also early 40's age range. And me. The baby of the group and potentially the most dramatic, 37 with teenage sons, in the middle of a divorce, middle class income but lots of debt and baggage in general. Thing is...no one was trying to move in with anyone. We all dated together and sometimes as pairs or three. We sat up all night talking often, we did massage and hot tubbing, ziplines and puzzle rooms and fun stuff together. It was pretty damned awesome.

And for the most part, I think it was pretty healthy, too.
 
I have no drama in my personal life.

My marriages are nice and quiet
 
Spork said:
Depends on a bunch of stuff.
Then there is the question of your expectations. Do you expect a "happily ever after?"
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I think this is where I'm different from a lot of "normal" people. I expect that a relationship is going to be work. I'm very fortunate with my husband as we communicate very well and pretty consistently, but that doesn't mean we don't have problems. But by communicating about our questions and concerns, we avoid having an actual FIGHT (or even an argument). By being willing to compromise or to sacrifice for each other, we avoid a lot of resentment and anger. But all that - to me, that's not about a feeling or anything. That's just the work you have to do to build a relationship and keep it strong.

So when I see someone post that their marriage is falling apart and they think poly might save it, I just don't know what to think. Building and maintaining relationships is WORK. Now it does require two to work together on it, so a relationship can totally fail despite one person doing everything "right" if the other person is on the way out the door anyway. But if a relationship is actually FAILING, that means that one or both parties either lacks the skill or the patience or the work ethic or the unselfishness to repair it.

Now, with all that being said (and in reference to what you said, Spork), sometimes relationships end not because they've "failed" but because it was just time to move on. Not all relationships are supposed to be permanent, and it can be a temporary relationship that's still healthy.
 
Lani said:
I think this is where I'm different from a lot of "normal" people. I expect that a relationship is going to be work. I'm very fortunate with my husband as we communicate very well and pretty consistently, but that doesn't mean we don't have problems. But by communicating about our questions and concerns, we avoid having an actual FIGHT (or even an argument). By being willing to compromise or to sacrifice for each other, we avoid a lot of resentment and anger. But all that - to me, that's not about a feeling or anything. That's just the work you have to do to build a relationship and keep it strong.

So when I see someone post that their marriage is falling apart and they think poly might save it, I just don't know what to think. Building and maintaining relationships is WORK. Now it does require two to work together on it, so a relationship can totally fail despite one person doing everything "right" if the other person is on the way out the door anyway. But if a relationship is actually FAILING, that means that one or both parties either lacks the skill or the patience or the work ethic or the unselfishness to repair it.

Now, with all that being said (and in reference to what you said, Spork), sometimes relationships end not because they've "failed" but because it was just time to move on. Not all relationships are supposed to be permanent, and it can be a temporary relationship that's still healthy.
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Well, too, it's a huge difference between varying kinds of investment.

So you have a MARRIAGE...that is this big commitment, it's hard to untangle if it ends, you live together and share your finances and make a household and possibly have children.

When you look at polyamory...you CAN have all of that stuff with multiple people (and I know some who do.) Or...you can have adult relationships that are more about just the simple enjoyment of each other, without all of the entanglement of the "escalator." The spectrum is from one end where you have adults and kids forming this big household blended family thing...to people who don't have kids but want to have adventures and share life together...and maybe never plan to live together. But maybe are "chosen family." That's what my quad was like.

Some people need the "escalator" in order to feel like it is a real relationship and not just friends with benefits. GirlFromTexlahoma and I have talked about this. Some folks on the other hand, don't! And there is everything in between.

Personally, if I am not escalating...there is no plan to entwine our lives, cohabitate, share finances, raise kids together, etc...if it feels like none of that is even remotely possible...then I feel like the amount of hard work to solve problems that I'm willing to do is less. Got one partner who isn't communicating real well, and another where we're not really connecting sexually, well OK it's not worth fighting this if it's not working out, it's not working out. If it's not fun, let's stop doing it. Easy. If I'm not all in, I'm not all in. *shrug*

Contrast to the marriage I had for 18 years that ended prior to me being poly...we never fought because I refused to. I shut down anything that looked like it was going to create a fight and walked away from it, or went silent and "took it" if he had something to lecture me about. I capitulated and then went my own way and did my own thing regardless. I pretended that everything was ok for the sake of my kids, and I did it so well that the whole world was fooled. I worked hard because I had reasons. I put up and shut up because I was "doing the right thing." Would I try so hard to save any other relationship, where the father of my kids was NOT the other party? Not a chance in hell.

Sometimes walking away IS better. (EDIT: That was a textbook narcissist/empath codependency. I coped well for most of the span of it, until he became actually dangerous, and then I was done. Point is...people say, "If you're not HAPPY then LEAVE" and that is nonsense if you're at least OK and you're trying to provide a decent life for kids. I made it OK for as long as possible.)

For 18 years I said, "marriage is work, relationships are work" and I defended the work and sacrifices I was putting in. But at this point I can tell you, it all comes down to life investment, how much work I'm going to be willing to do, sacrifices I'd be willing to make, for a relationship.
 
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Hi Lani,

I don't really know how common it is for an unhappy couple to be looking towards polyamory to save their relationship. I've seen it from time to time on this forum. I guess if it's like, "You're going to lose anyway, might as well try it," it's understandable. I won't even say that poly never saves an ailing marriage. Sometimes it does.

But, you're not looking for a couple that has a lot of problems, and that is the smart thing for you to do. I'm sure your standards are normal enough. And you don't have to adhere to some "normal standard" anyway. Just because all the other lemmings are racing off a cliff doesn't mean you should as well. Don't be a lemming.

I hope you'll find the right match/es for you.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I think you are looking for one of the most difficult poly situations to maintain so you are right to find a couple who is as drama free as possible.
 
A lot of people in dead end relationships believe somehow that poly will be the Band-Aid that will suddenly make everything okay. You are very smart to know that you don't want to get mixed up with anyone heading for a train wreck. The truth is, if you're part of a couple, poly works best when that relationship has a strong foundation, healthy communication, and a dynamic of caring and mutual respect. A strong, happy, and healthy relationship is essential for polyamory to work. If the relationship is sick and dying, adding more people will only make the suffering last longer.

Be firm in what you want and if your antennae start twitching when approached by people who don't seem happy, then trust your intuition and stay clear. There are healthy, happy polyfolk out there. Where are you meeting these sad sacks? Have you tried local poly meetups and OKCupid?

If you do a tag search for the words "lessons" and "foundations," there should be some good and useful threads. Also check out the Life Stories and Blogs section.
 
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Many long term couples new to poly, like you and your husband, want to do it "together." They imagine finding a single bi woman (a "unicorn") to "bring into their relationship." Or finding another MF couple where all 4 of you will just magically get along, and everything will be "equal," and each woman will lust after the other man, and the women will lust after each other, and every 4way sex, or spouse swap in the same room, will be magically perfect every time.

This never happens. Almost always one partner from each couple (one of the men, one of the women) fall madly in lust (love, infatuation, NRE) and it scares the crap out of their married partners, and all kinds of envy, jealousy and "drama" ensues, even to the point of at least one of the married couples divorcing.

I know this doesn't answer your question about finding a couple who has a perfect marriage, to ensure there is no drama around that when you and your h try to date them (since I guess your marriage is perfect ;) ). But maybe the real issue is what you are seeking, and your own couple privilege.

You have almost impossible standards, hoping for a woman who will love you both equally, and vice versa, or another MF couple where everyone and everything will be equal and a piece of cake, and every date will flow naturally and no one gets jealous, ever.

My suggestion is, to ward off trouble more effectively, maybe you both need to date separately. That is what most successful poly couples do. Many newbies don't know that. So I thought I'd mention it, expand on what other posters hinted at.

You go find you a nice single mono guy (or woman). Or a guy (or woman, if you're into that), who is poly, with partners or not, who is experienced and doing fine in sharing their life (or not having partners for a while). Make sure anyone you date doesn't have a "don't ask don't tell" rule with their spouse/OSO, since that is so close to feeling like cheating it isn't even funny.

My gf and I have been together 7+ years. We are poly. We rarely share a partner. When we have, it hasn't worked out, so we've stopped trying after a short experimental period (men always hope for a package deal with us). We each get our own partners. She's had 3 male partners since we met. The present one has been in her life about 3 years. I have had more partners since my sex drive is stronger. 2 relationships have lasted 2 1/2 years, others have lasted 3 months to 2 years. Most of the men or women I've dated have been local, a couple were long distance and we mostly texted, with infrequent meetups.

I'd prefer to find a nice guy who wants to be in my life longer than a couple years... to me that has been a failing of poly for me. We seem to grow apart... I find out he has fatal flaws he's been hiding from me. Or a guy has a major life change and I no longer fit into his plans.

I know some poly folks have had multiple relationships last longer than mine have. Personally, I take heart and feel lucky to have been happy with my anchor partner Pixi for so long. She accepts my poly nature, and in fact, is turned on by it, and her lack of jealousy (or ability to talk it over and dismantle it) is such a joy after my previous 30 year mono marriage with a guy who was jealous if I so much as talked to another man.
 
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nycindie said:
There are healthy, happy polyfolk out there. Where are you meeting these sad sacks? Have you tried local poly meetups and OKCupid?
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The nearest poly meetup around here is a few hours away. We've been looking at OKC and poly forums and poly groups on FB.
 
Magdlyn said:
Many long term couples new to poly, like you and your husband, want to do it "together." They imagine finding a single bi woman (a "unicorn") to "bring into their relationship." Or finding another MF couple where all 4 of you will just magically get along, and everything will be "equal," and each woman will lust after the other man, and the women will lust after each other, and every 4way sex, or spouse swap in the same room, will be magically perfect every time.

This never happens. Almost always one partner from each couple (one of the men, one of the women) fall madly in lust (love, infatuation, NRE) and it scares the crap out of their married partners, and all kinds of envy, jealousy and "drama" ensues, even to the point of at least one of the married couples divorcing.

I know this doesn't answer your question about finding a couple who has a perfect marriage, to ensure there is no drama around that when you and your h try to date them (since I guess your marriage is perfect ;) ). But maybe the real issue is what you are seeking, and your own couple privilege.

You have almost impossible standards, hoping for a woman who will love you both equally, and vice versa, or another MF couple where everyone and everything will be equal and a piece of cake, and every date will flow naturally and no one gets jealous, ever.

My suggestion is, to ward off trouble more effectively, maybe you both need to date separately. That is what most successful poly couples do. Many newbies don't know that. So I thought I'd mention it, expand on what other posters hinted at.

You go find you a nice single mono guy (or woman). Or a guy (or woman, if you're into that), who is poly, with partners or not, who is experienced and doing fine in sharing their life (or not having partners for a while). Make sure anyone you date doesn't have a "don't ask don't tell" rule with their spouse/OSO, since that is so close to feeling like cheating it isn't even funny.

My gf and I have been together 7+ years. We are poly. We rarely share a partner. When we have, it hasn't worked out, so we've stopped trying after a short experimental period (men always hope for a package deal with us). We each get our own partners. She's had 3 male partners since we met. The present one has been in her life about 3 years. I have had more partners since my sex drive is stronger. 2 relationships have lasted 2 1/2 years, others have lasted 3 months to 2 years. Most of the men or women I've dated have been local, a couple were long distance and we mostly texted, with infrequent meetups.

I'd prefer to find a nice guy who wants to be in my life longer than a couple years... to me that has been a failing of poly for me. We seem to grow apart... I find out he has fatal flaws he's been hiding from me. Or a guy has a major life change and I no longer fit into his plans.

I know some poly folks have had multiple relationships last longer than mine have. Personally, I take heart and feel lucky to have been happy with my anchor partner Pixi for so long. She accepts my poly nature, and in fact, is turned on by it, and her lack of jealousy (or ability to talk it over and dismantle it) is such a joy after my previous 30 year mono marriage with a guy who was jealous if I so much as talked to another man.
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I think that maybe there's a big difference in what we're looking for. I don't want or need another sexual partner. I would like another life partner. So, no, I don't think that dating separately is what I actually want to do, because dating in general is something I don't want to do. Dating, for me, is and always has been a means to an end. It's a way to meet new people, to get to know someone, etc. But I know that I don't want someone to date for a few years. I want a long-term (preferably lifelong) committed relationship.

Now I do understand that building an expanded family, everyone will have different relationships. And if it's a long-term thing, those relationships will change and flex over time, and that's understandable, too.

We'd be fine with a unicorn, or even with a straight woman. We'd also be fine with a MF or FF couple. We're not that picky about that. What we ARE picky about is... If you're in a couple and that couple is struggling, we don't necessarily want to invite that drama into our lives.
 
I think that maybe there's a big difference in what we're looking for. I don't want or need another sexual partner. I would like another life partner. So, no, I don't think that dating separately is what I actually want to do, because dating in general is something I don't want to do. Dating, for me, is and always has been a means to an end. It's a way to meet new people, to get to know someone, etc. But I know that I don't want someone to date for a few years. I want a long-term (preferably lifelong) committed relationship.

Now I do understand that building an expanded family, everyone will have different relationships. And if it's a long-term thing, those relationships will change and flex over time, and that's understandable, too.

We'd be fine with a unicorn, or even with a straight woman. We'd also be fine with a MF or FF couple. We're not that picky about that. What we ARE picky about is... If you're in a couple and that couple is struggling, we don't necessarily want to invite that drama into our lives.
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Even in a longterm, lifelong committed relationship - you don't need to be searching for a unicorn, or a couple. My own setup is proof of that. My husband PunkRock is MY husband. He doesn't have a sexual or romantic relationship with DarkKnight. However, we live as a combined family, and our finances and retirement and lives are completely intertwined. It is completely possible to find someone that fits outside the box of what you are searching for now, who also fits with just one of you. AND it more than likely will be less drama and more stability than trying to find a unicorn who will love the both of you in equal amounts.
 
So you are not looking for a sex partner, just someone who will be some sort of spouse, but with no romance or sex?

But your husband is looking for a sex partner?

So, say he found a woman to have romance and sex with. She wouldn't need to be bi because you don't want sex. So she wouldn't be a "unicorn," a hot bi babe who would be sexually and emotionally entangled with both of you. She'd be your husband's lover, your metamour, and your "sister wife," it seems to me.

Why hunt for a MF couple? You don't need the man in the equation because you are not seeking sex. Do you hope this MF couple would move in with your and your h, just because he would be romantic with the wife? What's in that for this hypothetical male? Sharing a home with his wife's lover and his wife's lover's wife?

Why seek a FF couple? Would you expect one of them to be bi, to please your husband sexually? Then both these hypothetical women would somehow become YOUR life partners, just because one was romantically involved with your husband?
 
Magdlyn said:
So, say he found a woman to have romance and sex with. She wouldn't need to be bi because you don't want sex. So she wouldn't be a "unicorn," a hot bi babe who would be sexually and emotionally entangled with both of you. She'd be your husband's lover, your metamour, and your "sister wife," it seems to me.
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I think she's not saying she's excluding sex, just that sex is not that important and not a condition, but getting along with the metamour is.
 
Tinwen said:
I think she's not saying she's excluding sex, just that sex is not that important and not a condition, but getting along with the metamour is.
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That's what I'm saying. I do enjoy sex and I'm not asexual or demi-sexual, but sex isn't what I look for when looking for a potential partner (or partners). And to be honest, I don't think it SHOULD be. If I want sex, that's easy. I can go to a bar, or we can go to a swinger's club if all we want is sex. Sex isn't that hard to get. But a relationship with someone we like? That's actually a lot harder to find. And that's what's more important.
 
Lani said:
That's what I'm saying. I do enjoy sex and I'm not asexual or demi-sexual, but sex isn't what I look for when looking for a potential partner (or partners). And to be honest, I don't think it SHOULD be. If I want sex, that's easy. I can go to a bar, or we can go to a swinger's club if all we want is sex. Sex isn't that hard to get. But a relationship with someone we like? That's actually a lot harder to find. And that's what's more important.
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You're right. It is.

I mean think about the odds for any one human being. The divorce rate alone speaks to this. Find one person you can really do "till death do us part" with for real these days...it's hard. And because there was a time where I thought that those who got divorced just weren't willing to make the sacrifices and do the work, I have to say that it is not that simple. Making it last for a lifetime is HARD TO DO. And saying that you are seeking a lifetime commitment when you haven't yet met the person(s) you are seeking it from, is pretty heavy stuff.

At this point in my life, I think about the many people I know, and ask myself if I'd consider LIFELONG partnership to any of them...and maybe it's because no one is perfect, maybe it's because I've been burned and have trust issues, maybe it's because I've matured enough to be cautious. But I cannot think of a single person with whom I would happily leap into a lifetime commitment. Even Zen, whom I am deeply in love with right now...I feel like a deer creeping into the open, ready to spook at any moment, when I consider the basic steps of entanglement. I'm taking months, maybe years, to decide about commitments like cohabitation, let alone vows. And I think about people I know and like...and I'm like:

"Nope, no spark."
"Nope, communication disconnects."
"Nope, too flighty."
"Nope, too similar to me."
"Nope, too little in common."
"Nope, too immature."
"Nope, addictions."
"Nope, children-related incompatibility."
"Nope, too financially unstable."
"Nope, incompatible kinks."

etc. etc. etc. etc...there is always something. I know something like 500-600 people socially, and even if every single one of them were completely available as a romantic option for me, I could throw a NOPE at pretty much any of them. I feel like I won the lottery with Zen, but I'm taking it slow and careful anyways, and I don't dare expect too much too soon.

So the point of all this...? Patience. If what you want is a lifetime commitment, try not to shop or hunt to avidly for that specifically. Try to slowly and organically let things bloom in their own season. Also good luck, because I don't think it's easy for anybody.
 
Yah -- okay, I know it sounds trite, like a smart-aleck tossoff, but in all my years it's totally true: Sex is easy, friendship is hard.

Really, finding a sexual relationship that lasts awhile isn't so difficult in a Big Picture sense. But where do I go to find someone with whom I can establish a longterm kinship, a meeting of the minds, someone whom I rightly trust deeply & who trusts me?

I know a thousand people; a couple hundred seem to consider me a friend. In my own heart & mind, I have maybe a dozen friends
 
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