Cheated on with Poly as the reason.

kdt26417

Official Greeter
It sounds like you and she have some disagreement about what constitutes fair. Did she agree previously to no contact, or is it something you need that she has not yet agreed to?
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
I'm a very giving person, part of why I'm so frustrated with myself.

Back when I thought they were just inappropriately close friends I agreed to allow him some storage space on my property

But why give free storage to a person who you think is inappropriately close in the first place? You want people to think you are "nice guy?" Something else?

What you call "very giving" I would call being too selfless. It's not being MEAN to say "No free storage here." There are other places to store. It doesn't have to be with you. In the continuum of

selfish ----- self-full --- selfless​

selfish is "mememememe." It's all about my needs, forget other people's.

selfless is "themthemthem." It's all about other people needs, forget mine.

The more balanced place in the middle of "self-full" is "I meet my own needs first. Then I can gift my help to others in meeting their reasonable and rational requests."

It's not selfish to do your own self care FIRST before helping others. It is NECESSARY to avoid burning out. And it is not optional.

Just like in a plane you put your own oxygen mask on first before trying to help other people with theirs. If you don't? You pass out. What good is that for you? And it's not like you can help many people when you are passed out.

i don't know. she thinks i'm not treating her fairly for "giving up" (in her mind) her affair partner, I'm ASTOUNDED that she doesn't understand what no contact means and how i need that.

Well, you are not being fair to yourself. You do not say "I need a firm period of no contact. This is NOT no contact" in a kind but firm and consistent manner. You do not work to meet your needs. You sabotage them.

If she has difficulty understanding your POV to begin with, I think you compound the problem by giving mixed messages.

Just earlier you said "He called. You need to call him back." I get you guys to that to "protect each other " or "protect selves" but it doesn't sound like that actually works. So could start saying what you actually want, need, mean. Clear some of the confusion sources on your end at least.

If you need a time of no contact? You could have told him "It is supposed to be no contact til October. There was one exception. Please keep to the agreements" and hang up the phone.

You could have told her "It is supposed to be no contact til October. There was one exception. Please keep your agreements and if he breaks it on his end, please tell him to straighten out. I just had to tell him because he called here."

What behavior are you doing that she thinks is not fair? You do not actually say.

We just got in a argument over me trying to express how this makes me feel.

Which is why I suggest NOT having the emotionally charged conversations by yourselves. Have them with a counselor.

And in between practice better CLEAR communication on the less emotionally charged stuff -- house chores, grocery, kids, etc.

While sticking to the October contact agreement. 3 people made and agreement and it is like NOBODY is holding it up. Then you guys wonder why this attempt is so wonky.

It is possible for you to intellectually be ok with poly and be emotionally a wreck with it because you see that as a group? This group does not have all the skills to do poly WELL at this time. It's all wonky now and not looking any better if it changes from "thinking about doing poly together after a cheating start" to "ok, we are doing poly now."

Part of you sees the wonky.

Part of you is thinking of signing up for it anyway.

While another part of you is going "OMG, WHY?"

Or at least... that what it seems like to me. That could be part of your distress. You are not meeting your own need for "I want to be safe" if you are considering getting involved in wonky stuff.

Galagirl
 
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endusal

New member
I'm sorry you're still struggling with all this.

I also think you would benefit much from counselling. Please consider it in all seriousness.

I absolutely feel for you regarding the incident with the phone call. It makes sense: it is an intrusion, a violation of your space, and a trigger for all the hurt you have amassed from this situation. I am not in the least surprised you reacted as you did (I experienced similar incidents in the past). I also understand the mixed messages: you are torn between what you think is fair (urging her to call him back) and the very real pain you experience while she does that.

That said, I am seeing a slight problem with the "no contact" thing. This is something you impose on your wife, and is a form of control. I fully understand why you need it, but I think it makes better sense to put the focus in protecting yourself, not controlling what your wife does. That would mean that she can respect your peace and quiet and not flaunt her communication with him in your face, tell the other guy to absolutely not call her (messages without notifications are discreet enough) and not detract from the time you need with her.

She has so far communicated she is not giving up her other relationship. Do you perhaps inwardly hope that she eventually will, if you fix your relationship with her? Where do you see all this going? What would be a best case scenario for you?
 

HurtandConfused

New member
I attempted to express my feelings about the vehicle on my property yesterday and that escalated to a huge fight that ended around 630am with her oldest daughter playing councilor for us....

I feel like she will not let me express my hurt with out telling me that I am attacking her, then she breaks down and goes into extreme emotional state; and does things that make me wonder if she's possessed. (I am carefully phrasing my sentences to make it very clear that these are my feelings and I don't even believe a lot of them are rational, but she could not listen to that).


Since she would not even hear me out I told her I am done trying to give her everything, it's time for me to be recognized.

I gave her a choice, she can stay with me or him, not both; I told her to be with me there will be absolutely no contact with the other guy forever; if she is not ok with that... at this point I am fine with her happily moving on.

She had previously agreed to no contact earlier in the night, but then freaked out when I said "forever"... so I feel like her agreements are very disingenuous and I have to break things down and make them SUPER clear so there's no claim of confusion later.


I'm going to set this Poly thing aside for now, maybe for ever.

After last night I'm not sure if we will work out; there is no way I can be with some one who will not let me express my feelings on their actions that directly effect me.. it's been over a month and I've had almost no cathartic release; I've never gotten to tell her everything and "get it out" because she will break down and tell me i am attacking her.

I feel like I've given far too much and I'm not sure what our future holds.

I sent her this thread, she said she wants to post on it. I told her I don't care, I will not be re-visiting this topic however.
 
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kdt26417

Official Greeter
Sorry to hear things have gotten to this point. It sounds like you have come to the realization of where you need to draw your line in the sand.
 

HurtandConfused

New member
I actually feel like this is a very good thing.

I have learned a ton of lessons and hope to be what I should have been to her this whole time, my complacency mixed with her personality lead to an extreme event.

I do not feel this is insurmountable, I feel like we are still drawn closer, especially now.

I feel like a cloud is lifted and even though I'm still very senstive (had a very hard day today, we took his vehicle to somewhere else; and as I saw her in it driving while I followed behind I rememberd the times that she had left with him from my driveway,,, and my brain spiraled out of control, I was in tears half the way there and all the way back plus agood half an hour after, she held me and we talked and if felt amazing and then we had a very connected intimate moment.

Afterwards we decided that her stress level from the business and the house and the kids (we were affected by a hurricane recently and have had extra stress from that) were making it difficult to be clear with herself.

I had already decied we needed a bit of time apart to reflect, I was thinking of another room in the house for me, she suggested a local hotel & we talked about it and possible feelings of abandonment (from both sides, for me moving to a different room wasn't what she wanted). I acknowledge that she is in a very stressful position right now and I think this is a great idea, she took our daughter and grand children with her (which is a great supportive person to talk to, I love her a lot too).

We have talked about making lists as previously mentioned in this thread (we both agree that's a great idea) and we are both researching conflict resolution methods and non-triggering communication methods.

I'm very happy at this point in time, for the first time in a month and a half... she let me tell her why I was so hurt today and was very understanding and not reactive. we had a funny make out session, and then great sex, plus some sensitive understanding conversation after.. I can't think of a better way to start off what we are trying to build.
 

Ting42

New member
Hi, I am HAC SO. Our life has really been a huge roller coaster lately...I had typed up a long reply to all I have read here by HAC, but didn't post it. I feel like only one perspective has been given, but I'm not really sure if I should share my perspective or not. Would it help the situation? It's tough hearing so many saying things negatively about me and praising HAC for his strength in trying to stick with a lying, cheating and untrustworthy partner when there is a whole different side to the story. I'm still trying to process all that has happened. I'm glad HAC had a place to come and get some of his feelings out and that he is finally starting to feel happy and hopeful for the future.

I'm having a really hard time though. The feelings I have for TOG (the other guy) are still very alive and real. I have agreed to HAC that I will never contact TOG again for the rest of my life. HAC has made it very clear that if it ever happens, he will immediately leave me for good, forever....even typing that brings me to tears....I don't even know how to turn off my feelings for TOG. But, if I want to have HAC in my life this is what I have to do and I do love HAC very very much and losing him would truly devastate me.

I don't know what to do or how to process all I am feeling...I have so much fear inside right now. My relationship with HAC was very difficult for me emotionally for a long time. I was so lonely and my self esteem was crushed. My attempts to bond and love HAC were treated as an illness (codependency) and were never reciprocated in a meaningful way. Our sex life was nearly non existent at several points. I am trying to trust that things will really be different this time, but we won't know till we try.

One of the things that HAC said in a recent post really effected me in a horrible way:

I feel like she will not let me express my hurt with out telling me that I am attacking her, then she breaks down and goes into extreme emotional state; and does things that make me wonder if she's possessed.

I do want to hear how he feels and I can hear them without turning it on myself. However I think HAC needs to practice the way that he shares how he feels...we can go into that more later. I do suffer from depression and anxiety and social anxiety. I am so spent emotionally over all of this that I have had several emotional breakdowns lately where I literally cannot stand up and cry hysterically...those are what he calls me being possessed...when this happens he either stands there looking at my like I am insane or walks away....(I can't explain how it feels to hear that's how he perceives my pain as being like a possessed person, especially with my past in being in a religious cult where demonic things are the very worst things and my fear of ever being possessed is still very real even though logically I don't believe it to be a real thing.) To perceive a person as possibly possessed when that person is breaks emotionally it completely heartless in my opinion. The fact that he sees my emotional pain in this light really makes me continue to question HAC ability to really connect with me emotionally. I also felt like he was trying to say that he feels my emotions are a manipulation. HAC is not very good at sharing his feelings in reality...on forums, he does a great job. It is easier for him to share his feelings in writing than verbally...I am the opposite, I prefer to process out loud verbally. On a forum you can write it, read it, erase parts, rewrite it...you don't get to edit real life.

I don't know...I think I need to think a lot more because the more I am writing, the more things I am feeling...If anyone thinks that it would be helpful for me to share my side on all of this, let me know. I didn't even get a chance to discuss how HAC was feeling about Poly as he only wrote here and refused to talk to me about it at all in real life....so many things about this situation are not presented here on this forum...
 
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HurtandConfused

New member
However I think HAC needs to practice the way that he shares how he feels...we can go into that more later.

I agree, what you told me yesterday was very true, I had been bottling up these things for probably years & it leads to very poor communication.


I do suffer from depression and anxiety and social anxiety. I am so spent emotionally over all of this that I have had several emotional breakdowns lately where I literally cannot stand up and cry hysterically...those are what he calls me being possessed...when this happens he either stands there looking at my like I am insane or walks away....

I Left specific details out because I care about you and don't think they are totally relevant.. I DO NOT think that when you are breaking down you are possessed.

When you are screaming at me that I am a liar and don't love you and I have to stop you from taking certain actions that you seem fully committed to and other actions that are self harming... THAT is when I have a very hard time reacting to your actions; that is when it becomes hard for me to reach out to you because the volatility is totally unpredictable, one second you want my arms around you and the next your saying don't fucking touch me and scooting away.

When you are sad and crying, that hurts me so bad I come and put my arms around you; I've been there for you at those times since we started dating & I'm sorry you at times look angrily at me and tell me I enjoy it (your break down) or something, I think this is because you expect me to react in a certain way and I'm standing there in a slight state of shock totaly confuesed as to what I should do,, my instinct is to leave the situation because I feel like the cause of the hurt but you tell me that's the worst thing I can do so I just don't know WHAT to do. I truly don't enjoy this and worry for you a lot, and I don't even know how you could think that about me when at other times you recognize that I'm a very caring person; that I normally go out of my way to help other people before myself and vindictiveness is not in my nature.

If it were we would be in a very different situation right now.


To perceive a person as possibly possessed when that person is breaks emotionally it completely heartless in my opinion.

I'm very sad we have this miscommunication and I WISH it were something that wasn't so charged that we could calmly discuss it. I can't believe you would think I was capable of that (I sat with you untill 630 am the other day; I sit through verbal insults, it seems like you try to physically intimidate me at times when your leaning over me yelling at me.. I sit through ALL of that for you) and I think I"m starting to understand where a lot of your anger is coming from now.


If anyone thinks that it would be helpful for me to share my side on all of this, let me know. I didn't even get a chance to discuss how HAC was feeling about Poly as he only wrote here and refused to talk to me about it at all in real life....so many things about this situation are not presented here on this forum...

You have expressed the desire to have your side more accurately represented, I totally think you should do that so you don't feel misrepresented.

I agree there is a lot of things that have not been written here, I have held a lot back as well; I sent you the link to the relationship counseling this morning so we could work these things out with someone who is experienced. I would love to do that with you if your willing to; if you didn't like that one I found several alternatives and a few websites that do reviews on them.

I love you and am happy that you chose to stay with me, even though over all i'm having a rough time that does bring me joy.
 
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kdt26417

Official Greeter
Hi Ting42,

I for one would be glad to hear your side of the story. I appreciate what you have posted so far. It says a lot for how you feel about HAC that you are willing to give up TOG, even with all the hurt you feel. I hope the two of you will be able to work things out, and maybe posting on this forum can help that to happen.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 

sexyserb

Member
Ting
Of course there are two sides to any relationship story and no one here is going to know or believe everything because you are coming at it from your respective emotions now.
But here are what seem to be the facts
(1) HAC got introduced to non monogamy , poly or whatever you want to call it by you deciding to make a fuck buddy of one of your friends, a guy apparently he knew and you didn’t bother telling him.
(2) after discovery of your cheating , you were asked and agreed to NC , which you promptly found a reason to break. HAC agreed to the so long phone call.
(3) you broke that agreement by continuing contact
(4) despite that he has tied himself in knots here trying to find reasons to accept what you are doing and to have a partner now professing love for another man.

So while HAC sits in his car or house crying and emotionally is a wreck your boyfriend with your approval I am sure parks his truck right in front of his nose.
And now HAC has the fun thought of in October watching some guy come driving up and whisking his partner away at his whim.
Sorry honey, but having a hard time seeing you as a victim here. Yes, you EACH own 50%! Of the relationship issues but you alone own 100% of fucking and falling in love with another man without your partner agreeing or knowing a Damm thing what was going on.
So now HAC. Has told you that you are fee to have your boyfriend but not as his wife or partner. Maybe losing your boyfriend will teach you something. I hope so.
Should you choose to stay with HAC I hope he can regain trust in you .

As far as what you feel is harsh advice, you should be thankful HAC chose a polyamory forum rather than an infidelity forum. Had he gone that route rather than trying to suck it up and give you what you want the advice he would have gotten would have knocked you off your chair.

If you truly love HAC then you will own your mistakes and not try to manipulate him back to accepting your other relationship. Had you maintained what he asked you to do for a few months it might have been different. Being on a small island you two have challenges galore now if you intend on staying together with this other guy in such close proximity. You have work to do on that. So stop being victim and rebuild your relationship with HAC or leave him for your boyfriend. You aren’t going to apparently have both
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
You guys seem to do a bit better WRITING to each other.

Might consider talking to each other that way while while still exploring finding a couples counselor if the plan has changed to giving up the other guy, and trying to heal and rekindle the marriage.

Galagirl
 

endusal

New member
Guys, I hope you can work things out. It IS possible even if it's hard to see it this way with the amount of hurt amassed on both sides. Been there, done that. A LOT of what you both write rings very familiar to me.

Ting, it's true you've messed up quite a bit but I think both of you merit a good deal of sympathy. The pressures you describe throughout your relationship with HaC can very well lead someone to this point. I understand how you can totally lose it when he communicates his hurt feelings to you: on one count, his manner and history may not help. I am sure that your feeling guilty and unsure about yourself further destabilises you.

I would suggest you both take a look at Nonviolent communication as a tool. Another thing I had suggested to HaC but I think could work for you as well is self-compassion as presented here by Kristin Neff. Self-compassion is very distinct from self-pity, and is a good approach to help you come to terms with your situation, own up your responsibility without feel crushed by it, and slowly moving forward.

Giving up on TOG is a big deal, and it's obvious you did it under duress (for fear of HaC leaving you). I disagree with discarding someone like that even if your connection with him is such a great source of hurt for someone else. At the very least some explanation should be given (e.g. it is of absolute priority to me to salvage my relationship and I cannot do this while simultaneously maintaining one with you). This is a real person with feelings that amounts to more than just the instrument of another's hurt.

Counselling might also be critical. For each of you separately as well as a couple. Issues with self-esteem can be very eroding in all sorts of relationships.
 

HurtandConfused

New member
At the very least some explanation should be given

I completely agree, I have been in contact with him on a couple of occasions to explain the situation, both times he has been very willing to step away and let us work on things. I would not treat a human like that (just ghost out on them).

The night we decided on NC I texted him and told him that I was sorry that I was unclear in my earlier allowance of the "good bye" call, I said that his continued contact was not helping what we were trying to work on and that she had agreed to no contact as long as we are together.

He replied that he understood and felt bad for being a part of the cause of any issues with us and that we should take our time and work on us.

I have spoken to him a couple of times previous to that & he understands the situation & seems very willing to let us be us.

We are trying to set that topic aside for now.




Yesterday (fathers-day) this beautiful woman put together a date for us while I was at work.

I got a text telling me to go home and shower and get dressed up and see my daughter, she has something for me.

So I did that and we negotiated a good time (6pm) and my daughter gave me a room key to a hotel... I'm sort of into symbolism.. a key has a lot of meanings as a gift
And this Key had 214... her favorite numbers are 2 and 4 (or 42 specifically) and for some reason the 2 divided by the 4 with a tiny little 1 seemed to symbolize our current issues, we are letting a little thing hold us a part.
Key.jpg

about 2 seconds after I took that picture I looked up and she was on the balcony of her room in a beautiful floral dress; I had happened to wonder up to the side of the hotel she was staying on (we both have weird luck like that) and she directed me to the stairs.

I approached 214 and knocked, even though I had the key I wanted to let her know I respect that she was in her space and was asking to join her. She encouraged me to use the key (also knowing the symbolism) and I let myself in.

We talked and she gave me a wonderful fathersday card, one that focused on areas that I had previously felt I needed more recognition in, it was strangely perfect & we both laughed because we both think most cards suck.

She then showed me a couple of journals she had purchased, one for her, and one for me.

On the title page of mine was
To HAC
Love TING42
"The Book of Ting42!!"
LOvebook.jpg

We were both nervous and walked around the beach chatting, we ended up walking by a bar & even though we both had previously agreed not to drink alcohol we both ordered a glass of wine, and decided we both have impulse issues... haha

the night went on to a great dinner, good connecting conversations, a couple of uncomfortable drifts in conversation but we kept the focus on "first date" questions and that was fun, we both wrote a lot in our books.

I still drift off in hurt thought at times, but I'm very happy with where we are starting our new relationship & the start of rebuilding trust for both of us.

I know she is struggling too, but I think things are starting out very well.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
It's good to hear that you guys had a wonderful evening together. You're getting started on the right foot.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
I still drift off in hurt thought at times, but I'm very happy with where we are starting our new relationship & the start of rebuilding trust for both of us.

I know she is struggling too, but I think things are starting out very well.

I'm glad father's day went well. I hope you both continue to talk, repair, and figure out what you want to do next.

Galagirl
 

HurtandConfused

New member
I'm glad father's day went well. I hope you both continue to talk, repair, and figure out what you want to do next.

Galagirl


Thank you, we have tabled "poly" for now and decided to re-visit when things are more stable, I think this is what I was after from the beginning and I feel immensely better, while she is a bit depressed (multiple factors, this is just one part, and of course it's vastly more complex than I could explain here) which makes me feel bad.

We are both making great strides in communication and have talked to a councilor that gave us good communication exercises and advice. Every thing is not "ok" but we are both committed to working together and both can't see ourselves with out each other involved in each others lives in at the very least some capacity in the future.

Our kids are transitioning out and we will soon have just 1 left in the household (plus our oldest daughter and her children that live near by) plus there are some pending business changes that will make our daily lives better; so the stress levels should drop quite a bit as we go through the recovery (lots of construction) from the hurricanes last sept/oct. Though children leaving cause stress as well... funny lives us parents lead.

we both acknowledge that our past relationship is gone and we are building a new one with fresh insights (and some trepidation from the old one that we are both trying to get over so we can both truly be the people we have become over the last 5-6 years of being together).

It's still rough but I feel like we are headed where we are supposed to be, and that this entire ordeal, while immensely stressful for the both of us; has been something we needed to re-focus us on each other and, mostly... ourselves.
 
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HurtandConfused

New member
Well, he texted and she texted back... she said she never talked about us, but tonight she said she did....

I can't take this up and down, and especially the complete lack of respect.

All I feel is like I'm not worth it to her... this is the worst thing that could happen
 

sexyserb

Member
HAC
Very sorry to read this but how can you be surprised. Your wife has showed no remorse for multiple betrayals , only regret that she got caught and hadn’t thought of telling you before she “tried it out” in her own words . This make four betrayals unless you also backtracked on the absolutely no contact .

My question for you is why did you expect different. You accepted this and tried to talk yourself into it to accommodate her , even stating hardly gleefully it appeared he was going to be a permanent fixture in your life. You then basically treated this guy like a cordial buddy hardly the reaction most would have to a guy banging your wife behind your back who has also now lied to you multiple times.

Then you drew the line in the sand and less then 72 hours later poly was just tabled for now. So basically after a date night and one mc session the no more contact ever was back to we will discuss poly again in the future

Her boyfriends on a fishing boat so of course you’re going to get lip service. Your wife never had any intention of ending this because you until maybe now have not stopped playing the pick me game .

Your wife is pissed off at YOU for ending her fun, anyone calling her trying out her fuckbuddyv without telling you is a hater, and she actually feels her only mistake was to not jam this down your throat before starting to have sex with him and keeping you clueless

Your fate is in your hands not hers . Maybe if you tell her you’re seeing an attorney and not a therapist that she continue to lie to while continuing her affair it might become real for her .

I keep reading here all the blabbering about “ethical” this and ethical that. What is ethical about her behavior?? Actions speak louder than words . If you don’t change course big time come October expect him to be strolling up your driveway.

You do not have to accept that
 

Ting42

New member
I am heart broken and completely devastated...HAC...you know how much you mean to me...I don't know if I can do this online discussion of our relationship thing. There are years of history between us and things in our past at play that no one here on this site know about. This is not the black and white issue it appears some think it ought to be...It is very complex. We need to speak with a real counselor, or at the very least, discuss this situation in person and not over text. This is our struggle to get through and I personally DO NOT trust advice from ANYONE who doesn't at least take the time to gather both sides of the facts first, which NO ONE on this forum has done. And I do not believe in involving others in OUR problems.


Point of clarification: I did NOT speak to TOG about us. He simply asked how things were going and I told him they were going great and that you and I were really starting to work things out and that I was happy. I showed you respect by coming to talk to you about this. I showed you respect by choosing not to speak to TOG in the first lace (it now seems that everyone here believes it was your command?). You and I have NEVER lived by ultimatums, you've never TOLD me what to do right? I make decisions for me, and you for you...please don't make it seem like this was a command from you to me to everyone else here. You ALWAYS tell me that you'll never TELL me what to do, but here on this forum you are telling everyone something different...I'm pretty confused as to why.

I agree that this is a very very upsetting thing for you and it is a step back for us...but it doesn't have to be. Please come home so we can discuss exactly what happened and what we need to do next for US.
 
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