Coming out meets divorce

Tailspin

New member
When I was 23, I married a man who had just turned 40. My husband worked and earned the income for our family and I took care of literally everything else. We couldn't afford to have someone else do it all if I went back to work, and we were both happy with this arrangement. We decided this early, and re-decided it periodically to make sure it still felt like the best decision for our family.

Around 7 years ago, as a couple, we went on a vacation and met an amazing group of people who became fast friends. Of the 20 or so friends in our close knit circle, more than half of them are in polyamorous long term committed relationship. We learned what that meant, and we spent a great deal of time talking to each other about what we saw, learned, and what we admired in our friends' non-traditional relationships. My husband was very supportive of their set ups, and acknowledged the value they had to each other, despite not being monogamous.

Neither of us had really ever been exposed to anything "different" than monogamy (other than cheating or coercive religious polygamy) before this, so we talked about it at least a few times a week for 6 years. In this time, I made it clear that I believed that polyamorous love felt far more natural to me than presumed, enforced, and contractual monogamy. I was clear that I would like the option of being more open in the future, despite not having anyone in mind. He seemed supportive and understanding every step of the way. Our marriage vows did not vow monogamy, and he considers himself deeply progressive, feminist, and open minded. Not once did he voice discontent or apprehension.

Then last year happened. We went on another vacation, but this time we brought our own friends. A married male friend (and his wife) and I started spending more time together, and my husband went out of his way to make sure we could sit together and be mildly affectionate during concerts or events. Throughout the vacation, I spent many hours holding both my husband's and being affectionate with my male friend. My husband was both relaxed and happy, and really enjoyed the vacation. At no time did he voice reservation or concern, even when I asked if he was ok with me spending time with the friend.

After getting home, and spending more social time with the married friend, I told my husband that he and I would like to explore if there is anything romantic between us. (At that point, there wasn't anything romantic or sexual happening between he and I beyond mild G-rated affection). My husband broke. He has been broken since that day.

When I made it clear that I would not choose "monogamy-no-matter-what" and could not be happy with monogamy being enforced as a contract, he wrote off 13 years of devotion and care. Nothing I had ever done with him or for him was worth dirt if he didn't have 100% of me to the exclusion of all others.

Being told that I was literally worthless to someone I love because I could not commit to a fully emotionally and physically monogamous pairing... was like breaking the glass around the illusion of what my life really was. Apparently, that life was nothing at all without the contract of monogamy, "no matter what".

We decided divorce was the only choice. I couldn't commit to an emotionally and physically monogamous existence. He couldn't see any value in a person who was not monogamously committed.

Over a year later, and he's still poisoning the well of our shared friends by telling them "She cheated on me and broke my heart." and "Polyamory is all about consent, and I did not consent, so she is evil." (Even after we separated). In my mind, the moment he told me I was worthless to him and that we were divorcing, I no longer *needed* his consent; he was no longer in a relationship with me. It was still many months after my separation before there was any sort of sexual relationship, with anyone.

What do you think? Do you require "consent" from someone who has left the relationship? How do you explain to others the difference between "Having been informed of the truth, I consent to be in this relationship," and "I give you permission to do a thing."?
 
No. You do not require the consent of former lovers to take new ones. (What would the world be like if that were true!) You did everything right. You were honest and let the chips fall where they fell. That takes great courage. I admire you.

On the other hand, you are an easy target for his slander. I'm not sure if I would try to defend yourself to friends unless they matter to you and are open minded. ('My husband didn't leave me because I was cheating, I left because I was polyamorous' will play differently with different crowds.)

And, welcome to the forum. You'll find most people here are pretty non-judgmental and willing to share their own experiences.
 
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On the other hand, you are an easy target for his slander. I'm not sure if I would try to defend yourself to friends unless they matter to you and are open minded. ('My husband didn't leave me because I was cheating, I left because I was polyamorous' will play differently with different crowds.)

Oh yes, that has certainly been the case. I got to find out which friends cared enough to bother talking to me after hearing something utterly out of character "she's evil!", and the ones who just band-wagoned. That's a whole 'nother kettle of rotten fish. I don't miss the "friends" who didn't bother. I don't miss the "friends" who suddenly have an opinion about things they never cared about before. They never bothered to ask about my relationship before the divorce, so I don't know why I'd open up about it now! Starting a conversation on the defensive is a surefire way to fail.

Thank you for the welcome. I'm sure none of this stuff is new - I'm just struggling with figuring out how to convince the ones who do matter that "ownership" is different than "love", and no matter how much heartbreak it caused him, it would be worse for both of us to have swept it under the rug. :(
 
I'm sorry to hear of all this.

Over a year later, and he's still poisoning the well of our shared friends by telling them "She cheated on me and broke my heart." and "Polyamory is all about consent, and I did not consent, so she is evil." (Even after we separated). In my mind, the moment he told me I was worthless to him and that we were divorcing, I no longer *needed* his consent; he was no longer in a relationship with me. It was still many months after my separation before there was any sort of sexual relationship, with anyone.

You know you weren't cheating. You let him know you could not longer keep the monogamous agreement. That's giving a fair heads up.

If he responds with wanting to divorce? Fair enough. He doesn't have to be willing to change agreements to do poly. He can choose to be free FROM any new poly things just as you can chose to be free TO pursue new poly things.

But he doesn't have to start calling you worthless and evil and whatever else. That's part is poor behavior. Sounds like the poor behavior continues -- with him calling you a cheater and telling shared friends stories that are not true.

What do you think? Do you require "consent" from someone who has left the relationship?

You do not need an ex's blessing to get on with your OWN post separation/divorce life. Be ok moving on.

Be ok with friends being split up in the process. I usually see it break out into his friends that stay in contact with him, and your friends that stay in contact with you. Not many overlap.

Remember that you don't have to JADE. Justify, explain, argue, defend. You private life is your private biz.

Your friends will be able to hear you and respect your wishes in this area -- whether you want to air out and talk or say nothing. They will be able to see that he's hurting and acting out and behaving poorly.

Galagirl
 
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Looks like you played it totally above board . I’m not sure what could have been in your husbands mind to have him go along with what you were doing, almost encouraging and facilitating it , and then apparently being devastated and livid that you want to pursue the relationship . I mean it’s strange for someone who would proceed to divorce over non monogamy would surround themselves with as you say a good number of polyamorous social group and then go out of his way to make sure you are able to be somewhat physical with this man . And then also sit by while you spend more alone time after the second vacation.
Very strange
Unfortunately though one of the things too often glossed over even when doing the research and reading the books is the clearly stated fact that altering your relationship status has the potential to end your relationship as well as enhance it.
You made a choice . He made a choice . As Gala said the respective friends will sort themselves out and whatever is causing the anger will pass
 
I’m not sure what could have been in your husbands mind to have him go along with what you were doing, almost encouraging and facilitating it , and then apparently being devastated and livid that you want to pursue the relationship

I wish I knew. Heck, I wish he knew and expressed it long ago. Maybe he thought it was fine as long as it was purely theoretical. That's not uncommon, from what I gather.

I know I have a giant "F.U." button around the concepts of ownership and possession when it comes to other human beings. I've had quite a rude awakening realizing how many otherwise-decent people are ok with it. So comfortable with it they consider it integral to commitment. (/queasy face) I'm glad you guys are all around to give voice to the minority who say "no way."
 
Your ex kind of reminds me of the ex of one of the regular bloggers here, Spork. I don't know how to link her, but she updates quite often in the blog section titled "The Story of Spork."

No, the behaviors of your husband and hers don't exactly match, but they seem to have very similar worldviews, of "ownership" and the badmouthing you to others for "cheating" after you had already split.

I agree you have done everything you could do. Much luck to you. Let the haters hate; I'm sure the people who really KNOW and care about you will listen to what you have to say.
 
Tailspin,

I'm sorry this played out the way it did. You deserved better.

It isn't particularly odd that mono people have poly friends. I have many mono friends who accept me and other friends' poly ways.

I wonder if your ex set up a trap for you, consciously or unconsciously. It is odd that someone who can't tolerate any non-monogamy in their relationship would push you towards another man. I wonder if your husband wanted out of the relationship and pushed this scenario so that you would eventually ask for 'for real' poly connections and so he could then be the 'good guy' in the breakup. The subsequent horrible behavior seems to back this up. People will do all kinds of hurtful things to avoid being blamed or feeling guilty when a relationship ends.
 
Yuck. What a betrayal. I am so sorry you are going through this.
 
Hello Tailspin,

Consent is a complicated topic. I have tentatively come to the conclusion that in a monogamous marriage where one of the spouses decides they want to try polyamory, the thing to do is say that to the other spouse, and if that spouse says no, either divorce or give up the idea of trying poly, whichever is possible or the lesser of those two evils. In any case, you didn't do anything your husband told you not to while you were still with him. So, by my theory, you did the right thing as far as consent is concerned. Your now-ex is trying to paint a different picture to your shared friends, but I'm not buying that. If anyone's behavior was treacherous, it was his.

You have been through a harsh experience. I am sorry about that. Try not to get too upset if you lose any friends over this, your real friends will be willing to hear your side of the story. Focus on healing, and on taking care of yourself. Return to this forum often, whenever you need to talk or vent.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I think we do best in life, including for ourselves, if we can see things from the other person's point of view.

Maybe he thought he could do it as he watched these friends but found he couldn't live with that. That is his right.

Maybe it has nothing to do with him viewing you, personally, as 'worthless,' but that he cannot live with his wife sleeping with other men. That's his choice and he has every right to the monogamous marriage he knew for 13 years. He's not obligated to open the marriage. That's a change that has to be unanimous.

Maybe he feels that you regard him as worthless, since, you clearly value non-monogamy over him.

Just some thoughts on how it might feel from his perspective.

I agree with sexyserb that the behavior you describe is a little bit strange but if it's not explained by thinking he could do it and finding he couldn't when it became reality, then--in my experience--stories usually are strange if some information is missing.
 
Maybe it has nothing to do with him viewing you, personally, as 'worthless,' but that he cannot live with his wife sleeping with other men. That's his choice and he has every right to the monogamous marriage he knew for 13 years. He's not obligated to open the marriage. That's a change that has to be unanimous.

Absolutely his choice to decide. I don't harbor any negative feelings about him stating what he needs and preferring divorce over not getting his need met. We had many conversations about how we would behave if one of us found that we were standing in the way of the other's need or happiness; chiefly that we wouldn't stand in the way. That's his boundary, and I respect people who hold their own.


Maybe he feels that you regard him as worthless, since, you clearly value non-monogamy over him.
Perhaps... but still wanted him. I still loved him. I still valued him as a person, friend, spouse. I still valued our history and our relationship. I still wanted to be a part of our life. I don't think it was ever expressed that I valued non-monogamy "over him", but "in addition". What he wanted was a strict choice to be with only one someone, even when neither of your needs are being met. If that feels like "you don't value me as a person", I think that's his damage to figure out (hopefully in therapy, with a professional).

I believe you are correct about doing best when we can view things from another's perspective. That's the biggest reason I felt I could offer him divorce if his need couldn't be met, without my being torn apart. His perspective turned out to be something I can't live with, and he deserves the chance to find someone who can.
 
Tailspin,


I wonder if your ex set up a trap for you, consciously or unconsciously. It is odd that someone who can't tolerate any non-monogamy in their relationship would push you towards another man. I wonder if your husband wanted out of the relationship and pushed this scenario so that you would eventually ask for 'for real' poly connections and so he could then be the 'good guy' in the breakup. The subsequent horrible behavior seems to back this up. People will do all kinds of hurtful things to avoid being blamed or feeling guilty when a relationship ends.

Wow, this seems like expert-level devious. Knowing my ex, I really can't imagine this was ever a conscious train of thought. Clearly he was more unhappy than he was willing to admit. Given how little he ultimately valued my contribution to our marriage, and his deep aversion to conflict, he clearly wasn't getting what he needed and wasn't willing to ask for it or even make noises to flag the unhappiness. Perhaps this seemed like an easier route. I hadn't thought of that possibility. I'm not sure how likely it is, but thank you for making me think about it as an alternative. :)
 
so we talked about it at least a few times a week for 6 years.

So for six years you talked multiple times a week. When did your husband tell you that he really was interested in actually doing polyamory. Seems like in six years you might have had more to go on than your "perception" that he was all in and OK.

d be mildly affectionate during concerts or events. Throughout the vacation, I spent many hours holding both my husband's and being affectionate with my male friend.

Exactly what does "affectionate" mean. Were you kissing, holding hands arms around each other. ??? I am just trying to figure out why you were so convinced he was ok with this and snapped like a twig. This does not make sense for an enlightened, progressive, person to go from zero to divorce in an instant or over one conversation.

I told my husband that he and I would like to explore if there is anything romantic between us. And husband said nothing and knew and encouraged all this alone time with married male friend?/?
And he just snapped when you said you wanted an intimate relationship?? Just like that.

I'm sorry, I am not excusing his name calling and what he may havedone with the friends, but if this is exactly the way it all happened then the old missed communication thing came into play here. Sometimes PERCEPTION is different than reality and if this is what occurred you obviously read his behavior a bit wrong.
Now if when you expressed what you wanted to do and you went back and forth and told him this was going to happen regardless of what he thought, then your divorce is not because of poly, its because of your deciding what you wanted was more important that wanted and was willing to accept.
You have that right and so does he.

Anytime two people divorce suddenly and not amicably mutual friends are always caught in the middle. I'm curious what you are telling your friends??
That you wanted to be with other men and he refused to participate or that he said OK and then changed???

Anything like this always has two sides. There is another thread here where one is claiming we do not know her side. Same thing applies here.
Either way he should not be calling you names and that is unacceptable but also not unusual in a highly charged emotional break up. The friends will sort it out.
 
Of the 20 or so friends in our close knit circle, more than half of them are in polyamorous long term committed relationship. My husband was very supportive of their set ups, and acknowledged the value they had to each other

so we talked about it at least a few times a week for 6 years.

I was clear that I would like the option of being more open in the future, despite not having anyone in mind. He seemed supportive and understanding every step of the way. Our marriage vows did not vow monogamy, and he considers himself deeply progressive, feminist, and open minded. Not once did he voice discontent or apprehension.

A married male friend (and his wife) and I started spending more time together, and my husband went out of his way to make sure we could sit together and be mildly affectionate during concerts or events.

At no time did he voice reservation or concern, even when I asked if he was ok with me spending time with the friend.

After getting home, and spending more social time with the married friend, I told my husband that he and I would like to explore if there is anything romantic between us. (At that point, there wasn't anything romantic or sexual happening between he and I beyond mild G-rated affection). My husband broke. He has been broken since that day.

We decided divorce was the only choice.

Over a year later, and he's still poisoning the well of our shared friends by telling them "She cheated on me and broke my heart." and "Polyamory is all about consent, and I did not consent, so she is evil."


This all seems very strange - indeed, like there is a piece missing, either in your version of the story, your perception of what was in your husband's mind at the time, or HIS perception of what was really going through YOUR mind and what you were really telling him you wanted in the future.

It's hard to believe you could have discussed polyamory and the possibility of opening up FOR SIX YEARS, and that he would have encouraged you to get closer to your male friend... and still, he didn't have any idea. :confused:

You describe your former husband as considering himself "deeply progressive"... so it is just possible he was in denial about his true feeling surrounding monogamy. As many of us who try to open up discover, the REALITY can be vastly different to the perception. We may understand the concept of non-monogamy on an intellectual level, and even approve of it "in theory" or where others are concerned, yet in practice, find it exceptionally difficult to come to terms with. Perhaps this was the case with your husband, although his sudden and dramatic change of heart still seems somewhat off-kilter.

In any case, it's now a done deal... and you both are in a position to practise the relationship style that suits you best and brings the most fulfilment. It's just a shame your ex feels the need to bad-mouth you to mutual friends, to the extent of lying about you having "cheated", though perhaps his jealousy led to a paranoid state of mind, in which he found it hard to believe you and this other male friend HADN'T actually done more than he was aware of. (?)
 
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