Rickmanger
Member
This... is a complex situation that I will do my best to condense down to a readable and understandable format. I'm looking for some... advice isn't quite the right word, as much as a sympathetic ear, a smack upside the head (yeah, I should have walked away a long time ago), and wondering what others would do in this same utterly stupid situation.
Me: In an ENM relationship with my wife; stable, happy, allowed to have a friend on the side (as is she). I know/knew hers, she doesn't want to know mine, as long as I come home and we talk regularly. Been great for years now.
Two friends: In a conventional monogamous relationship that suddenly decide to become polyamorous - Shaun (M) / Kelly (F). I've known Shaun and Kelly for 20 years - I introduced them, was best man at their wedding, thought they had a solid relationship and the right "foundation" for this kind of stuff if that was their choice.
Shaun / Kelly are introduced to two other friends (Mel/Dude), prior to them becoming poly. Mel's husband was shit as it turns out, but I introduced them as a couple to Shaun and Kelly as just friends, before everything switched.
Started with couple swapping in 2019, Mel and her then-husband Dude get a rapid divorce (abusive relationship, among other issues that came up), Mel moves in with Shaun and Kelly the week before Covid lockdowns kick in.
Talk about sudden changes. I ~knew~ that Shaun and Kelly had some minor issues early on - some fights over hobbies outside the home that Kelly did (something that shaun wasn't welcome at), her job, and some ... issues with intimacy in the bedroom. I believed they thought Mel was a helpful addition to that, although the long-term planning for what came next was missing, but that they'd gotten much help in dealing with this kind of stuff and were in a better place when they started.
September 2020 Kelly gets a new boyfriend - me - cool, everything is balanced again. Except she didn't ask Shaun first. There's a bit of a fight, but again - known them for a long time, and after reiterating the boundaries (ask first, ask second, act third - maybe), we all move along.
Useful Fact: Kelly is an alcoholic, arguably. She should have gotten a DUI the week before their wedding 10 years ago. She got lucky. She should have gotten one a year prior to their wedding. Lucky again. She has a pattern of looking to get out of the house and away from Shaun as much as possible, drinking, etc - I knew this, but thought they'd gotten therapy about it (narrator: they had not). I thought they'd gotten therapy over the intimacy issues, and over the other problems. They had not. I gave them an alternative lifestyle friendly therapist (one my wife and I went to for 2 years when we hit our own marital issues, though we're much more vanilla, just because she's a damned good couples therapist too). They didn't go. Ever. They went to a generic one - twice - and then stopped. All of this starts coming out as we're all together.
2022 Kelly makes out with another friend - asks ME about adding him to the group. I point out she MUST tell her husband (Shaun) because I'm not the one who can approve. Kelly lets the new guy die on the vine instead. Two other incidents this year seem weird but don't come up at all and die quickly as well. Looking back - she was likely cheating, effectively, and just letting them die before they get serious. One especially seems... odd in hindsight.
2023 Kelly gets a DUI coming back from a date. Fireworks. Explosions. Yelling. Screaming. She takes care of it. Does her penance, life goes on. Stops driving. Mid 2023 Kelly ubers home from a date drunk. Yelling, screaming, from Mel and Shaun. Late 2023, repeat. 2024 Kelly ubers home from an event, the usual. Repeat this pattern every 3-4 months, she acts good for a month, then slips back into the cycle - and it's not just with me, she's drinking all over the place. She does her best to avoid being home, she does her best to avoid involving herself in Shaun/Mel's life, she's doing her own thing. Mel and Shaun are rather or extremely introverted, Kelly is extremely extroverted. She's doing everything she can to not be home. We encourage her to be more responsible and sane, and she does for a bit- just long enough to make it seem like improvements, and then reverts over time.
Later I find out this has been the pattern with her since 2009. Every job - she'll go to a bar before coming home. Every class - bar before coming home. Even when she's coming off a 2+ hour commute and won't get home till 7... bar, then she comes home. She tells people at these places she doesn't want to be home or go home. She just doesn't want to be with Shaun. Shaun... knows about half of this (again, rapidly moving target and I'm just finding out).
Late 2024, Mel and Shaun tell Kelly they're planning on having a kid. Kelly approves. Later Shaun tells Kelly he bought a ring. She approves - reluctantly. Mel gets pregnant almost immediately, due on Kelly's 40th birthday (literally to the day).
...
Kelly has long talks with me (remember, friends for 20 years and boyfriend). She's accepting, as long as she has me and some outside stability. She ends up making out with another friend right before Christmas - much much closer to home and the group (I catch them, we were all hanging out), says it was a drunken mistake and we agree to let it slide for the moment. Emotions are high obviously, so - fair. It's christmas and your husband's other partner is due on your 40th. Shit sometimes happens.
Early 2025 - Mel's pregnancy goes awry. Mel is now hospital bound till at least the 7+ month mark, if the baby makes it that far. Everything stable, but can't go home, can't be outside. Shaun - obviously - moves in to the hospital. Kelly... goes and parties. Almost every day. Some with me. Some without. She's home enough that Shaun doesn't notice, but she's ... not there. Uber everywhere, mind you, but out playing the field and having fun.
A few weeks later Kelly and I and the friends from before end up hanging out, and things ... go too far while messing around. We stop. I again again point out that this is something Shaun MUST be told. I'm not opposed to more creative play, but I'm not the partner to ask. She... does not (this is the place where all of us go "fuck, pattern, she's actually cheating").
Following week (literally days) - Mel's baby arrives. Premie, 26 weeks, great prognosis, but holy fucking shitballs it's real now.
And not once - not ever - did Kelly visit them in the hospital during the lead up. Not once.
Kelly goes nuts. I meet her out drinking like a fish, she talks about how she's not sure why Shaun didn't divorce her years ago, doesn't know why he's still there, she doesn't want to be there, not attracted or interested anymore (they haven't been physical apparently in 7 years?!?), and tells me the truth about all the early issues they had (she kept going to the hobby thing out of spite, since he told her not to - she kept the jobs with booze, because he told her not to, and on the other side, she left jobs she loved because he didn't want to move across town to cut 1.5 hours off her commute (he works from home), etc). Fucking DISASTER. And she still won't tell him about the cheating. They shouldn't have gotten married. They should have divorced years ago. They should have broken up 15 years ago! She's there to have a place to live - that's it.
Following day she goes out again. Comes home not drunk but tipsy (I dropped her off after picking her up at the bar on my way home from work - sigh). Apparently opens more booze. Mel's mother arrives at 1130PM. Kelly is drunk. They talk for 2 hours. Kelly gets drunker. Mel's mom realizes that Kelly doesn't drive, has no car, was drunk when she got there, puts 2+2 together and gets 4, asks questions.
Shit blows up. Again. Same shit, different day, same explosion. Sigh. The cycle repeats, this ouroboros of stupid just keeps rolling.
But here's the thing. There's a fucking 2 week old KID involved now. His mom and dad do not want their extra partner there. They don't get along. She doesn't want to be there. This cycle WILL repeat (She arguably doesn't have a maternal bone in her body). Doing that around a baby is NOT good. Their priority needs to be that kid, not wondering if she's going to fall apart. Her priority needs to be figuring her shit out, not pretending to be involved and caring, or acting like there are landmines at home.
This cycle has run for at LEAST 15 years - why would it change now?
And every single person in this group of friends and people (except kelly) have turned right to me and said "please, have a conversation with Shaun. This needs to end. Cut the cycle, let her go, tell him about the cheating, and lets be done with this - he needs to have all the information to make a decision, she needs to go and figure out her life before this happens with a new baby at home, and she will do it better not there" Mel has begged me to talk to him, since she doesn't want to pull the "choose - NOW" card and be seen to be forcing him to leave.
And now I'm wondering what twilight hell I've dropped into, and what folks here think about this particular disaster.
Me: In an ENM relationship with my wife; stable, happy, allowed to have a friend on the side (as is she). I know/knew hers, she doesn't want to know mine, as long as I come home and we talk regularly. Been great for years now.
Two friends: In a conventional monogamous relationship that suddenly decide to become polyamorous - Shaun (M) / Kelly (F). I've known Shaun and Kelly for 20 years - I introduced them, was best man at their wedding, thought they had a solid relationship and the right "foundation" for this kind of stuff if that was their choice.
Shaun / Kelly are introduced to two other friends (Mel/Dude), prior to them becoming poly. Mel's husband was shit as it turns out, but I introduced them as a couple to Shaun and Kelly as just friends, before everything switched.
Started with couple swapping in 2019, Mel and her then-husband Dude get a rapid divorce (abusive relationship, among other issues that came up), Mel moves in with Shaun and Kelly the week before Covid lockdowns kick in.
Talk about sudden changes. I ~knew~ that Shaun and Kelly had some minor issues early on - some fights over hobbies outside the home that Kelly did (something that shaun wasn't welcome at), her job, and some ... issues with intimacy in the bedroom. I believed they thought Mel was a helpful addition to that, although the long-term planning for what came next was missing, but that they'd gotten much help in dealing with this kind of stuff and were in a better place when they started.
September 2020 Kelly gets a new boyfriend - me - cool, everything is balanced again. Except she didn't ask Shaun first. There's a bit of a fight, but again - known them for a long time, and after reiterating the boundaries (ask first, ask second, act third - maybe), we all move along.
Useful Fact: Kelly is an alcoholic, arguably. She should have gotten a DUI the week before their wedding 10 years ago. She got lucky. She should have gotten one a year prior to their wedding. Lucky again. She has a pattern of looking to get out of the house and away from Shaun as much as possible, drinking, etc - I knew this, but thought they'd gotten therapy about it (narrator: they had not). I thought they'd gotten therapy over the intimacy issues, and over the other problems. They had not. I gave them an alternative lifestyle friendly therapist (one my wife and I went to for 2 years when we hit our own marital issues, though we're much more vanilla, just because she's a damned good couples therapist too). They didn't go. Ever. They went to a generic one - twice - and then stopped. All of this starts coming out as we're all together.
2022 Kelly makes out with another friend - asks ME about adding him to the group. I point out she MUST tell her husband (Shaun) because I'm not the one who can approve. Kelly lets the new guy die on the vine instead. Two other incidents this year seem weird but don't come up at all and die quickly as well. Looking back - she was likely cheating, effectively, and just letting them die before they get serious. One especially seems... odd in hindsight.
2023 Kelly gets a DUI coming back from a date. Fireworks. Explosions. Yelling. Screaming. She takes care of it. Does her penance, life goes on. Stops driving. Mid 2023 Kelly ubers home from a date drunk. Yelling, screaming, from Mel and Shaun. Late 2023, repeat. 2024 Kelly ubers home from an event, the usual. Repeat this pattern every 3-4 months, she acts good for a month, then slips back into the cycle - and it's not just with me, she's drinking all over the place. She does her best to avoid being home, she does her best to avoid involving herself in Shaun/Mel's life, she's doing her own thing. Mel and Shaun are rather or extremely introverted, Kelly is extremely extroverted. She's doing everything she can to not be home. We encourage her to be more responsible and sane, and she does for a bit- just long enough to make it seem like improvements, and then reverts over time.
Later I find out this has been the pattern with her since 2009. Every job - she'll go to a bar before coming home. Every class - bar before coming home. Even when she's coming off a 2+ hour commute and won't get home till 7... bar, then she comes home. She tells people at these places she doesn't want to be home or go home. She just doesn't want to be with Shaun. Shaun... knows about half of this (again, rapidly moving target and I'm just finding out).
Late 2024, Mel and Shaun tell Kelly they're planning on having a kid. Kelly approves. Later Shaun tells Kelly he bought a ring. She approves - reluctantly. Mel gets pregnant almost immediately, due on Kelly's 40th birthday (literally to the day).
...
Kelly has long talks with me (remember, friends for 20 years and boyfriend). She's accepting, as long as she has me and some outside stability. She ends up making out with another friend right before Christmas - much much closer to home and the group (I catch them, we were all hanging out), says it was a drunken mistake and we agree to let it slide for the moment. Emotions are high obviously, so - fair. It's christmas and your husband's other partner is due on your 40th. Shit sometimes happens.
Early 2025 - Mel's pregnancy goes awry. Mel is now hospital bound till at least the 7+ month mark, if the baby makes it that far. Everything stable, but can't go home, can't be outside. Shaun - obviously - moves in to the hospital. Kelly... goes and parties. Almost every day. Some with me. Some without. She's home enough that Shaun doesn't notice, but she's ... not there. Uber everywhere, mind you, but out playing the field and having fun.
A few weeks later Kelly and I and the friends from before end up hanging out, and things ... go too far while messing around. We stop. I again again point out that this is something Shaun MUST be told. I'm not opposed to more creative play, but I'm not the partner to ask. She... does not (this is the place where all of us go "fuck, pattern, she's actually cheating").
Following week (literally days) - Mel's baby arrives. Premie, 26 weeks, great prognosis, but holy fucking shitballs it's real now.
And not once - not ever - did Kelly visit them in the hospital during the lead up. Not once.
Kelly goes nuts. I meet her out drinking like a fish, she talks about how she's not sure why Shaun didn't divorce her years ago, doesn't know why he's still there, she doesn't want to be there, not attracted or interested anymore (they haven't been physical apparently in 7 years?!?), and tells me the truth about all the early issues they had (she kept going to the hobby thing out of spite, since he told her not to - she kept the jobs with booze, because he told her not to, and on the other side, she left jobs she loved because he didn't want to move across town to cut 1.5 hours off her commute (he works from home), etc). Fucking DISASTER. And she still won't tell him about the cheating. They shouldn't have gotten married. They should have divorced years ago. They should have broken up 15 years ago! She's there to have a place to live - that's it.
Following day she goes out again. Comes home not drunk but tipsy (I dropped her off after picking her up at the bar on my way home from work - sigh). Apparently opens more booze. Mel's mother arrives at 1130PM. Kelly is drunk. They talk for 2 hours. Kelly gets drunker. Mel's mom realizes that Kelly doesn't drive, has no car, was drunk when she got there, puts 2+2 together and gets 4, asks questions.
Shit blows up. Again. Same shit, different day, same explosion. Sigh. The cycle repeats, this ouroboros of stupid just keeps rolling.
But here's the thing. There's a fucking 2 week old KID involved now. His mom and dad do not want their extra partner there. They don't get along. She doesn't want to be there. This cycle WILL repeat (She arguably doesn't have a maternal bone in her body). Doing that around a baby is NOT good. Their priority needs to be that kid, not wondering if she's going to fall apart. Her priority needs to be figuring her shit out, not pretending to be involved and caring, or acting like there are landmines at home.
This cycle has run for at LEAST 15 years - why would it change now?
And every single person in this group of friends and people (except kelly) have turned right to me and said "please, have a conversation with Shaun. This needs to end. Cut the cycle, let her go, tell him about the cheating, and lets be done with this - he needs to have all the information to make a decision, she needs to go and figure out her life before this happens with a new baby at home, and she will do it better not there" Mel has begged me to talk to him, since she doesn't want to pull the "choose - NOW" card and be seen to be forcing him to leave.
And now I'm wondering what twilight hell I've dropped into, and what folks here think about this particular disaster.
