Condoms and such

[Inaniel]

Hes wanting pulling out in addition to the condoms

I understand that but if another condom breaks your boyfriend can still impregnate you with pre-cum, or by simply not having the discipline on a whim to pull out. I feel like If I were very passionate about child planning and paternity, relying on the whims of a meta to plan my next child wouldn't be my first choice.

 

[icesong]

That's a bit of a different scenario, but I see what you are saying. I suppose my question becomes, why were YOU so interested in proving paternity? My guess would be because you grew up in a society that put value on that; value that I think is misplaced.

It's really easy to say that that value is misplaced when you know what DNA is floating around your body. This isn't a philosophical question, this is a "what diseases am I likely to get and what traits have I inherited?" question.

 

[HaloOnFire]

This topic isn't about that as far as I can tell, but about whether or not the wife is going to capitulate to the demands of how she is allowed to have sex with her other partner.

With all due respect, the wife has the following choices in this matter:

1. Comply with the husband's quite reasonable request

2. Close the marriage until after she and DH have popped out the number of children they want

3. Divorce.

Because as of right now, her posts read as if she is treating her husband with a wholesale and unqualified contempt in this matter. She is unilaterally and deliberately taking the consent and choice of her husband away from him by insisting on "my body, my choice" without even contemplating the ramifications of her sticking to her guns. This is in NO WAY ethical, my dude. Like a lot of folks I have seen online, she appears to have skipped entirely over the "ethical" part of ethical non monogamy.

She is also willing to put any children's future on the line for a 5-10 second cream pie. Now. Strictly speaking for myself and no one else in the room, this speaks VOLUMES as to the content of her character.

Is the OP suggesting hiding the paternity of the child from them? It sounds like the husband is going to drag her into the doctor to get documentation on the lineage of the child to prove if it is his heir to the throne, so it's not like they aren't going to know who the father is.

Spare me.

I like how you skipped over the bit of how states in the US can completely and totally hose a man over the question of paternity. In some states, even IF the husband is not the father, he can still be on the hook for child support, DNA be damned.

ETA: And if the husband faces huge and life defining legal implications from this, he ABSOLUTELY gets a say so in this.

 

[HaloOnFire]

I understand that but if another condom breaks your boyfriend can still impregnate you with pre-cum, or by simply not having the discipline on a whim to pull out. I feel like If I were very passionate about child planning and paternity, relying on the whims of a meta to plan my next child wouldn't be my first choice.

Thank you!

 

[AlwaysGrowing]

He would prefer it be his, and would want a pat test, but im pretty sure he would raise it regardless

Are you willing to risk it? Supporting a pregnant partner, raising kids, all of the things that go into that... That's really emotional for many people. What will YOU do if you get pregnant, find out it's boyfriend's, then husband realizes he just CAN'T. He can't look at the little face that looks like your other partner every day? He can't treat that baby like HIS because it isn't? Sure, a decent human will still provide basic care, but there is a HUGE difference between an excited and loving dad and a guy who is forced to care for a kid or lose his partner.

Condoms are a reasonable method of prevention. A history of breaking resulting in pregnancy, though... That's a trust thing. If you don't give your husband time to rebuild the trust that you and boyfriend can safely, correctly, and consistently use condoms then that is pretty insensitive to his safety and concern about baby making... Asking for a backup method doesn't feel unreasonable to me, since he doesn't really want to raise a baby that isn't biologically his. I've had condoms break. When it happens, we've always stopped immediately and replaced them or if it breaks during/after orgasm I took plan b. Are you willing to take plan b in the future if you and boyfriend have another incident?

Importance of paternity aside, caring for babies is HARD. Physically, emotionally, it's just hard. It will completely change your relationships. I can totally understand why your husband wouldn't want to do that for a baby that may or may not even see him as a parent. If boyfriend is bio father, what is his role going to be? These are all things to consider BEFORE getting pregnant. Which means taking active steps (correct condom use, backup birth control or plan b in case of failure, etc) until you've got it figured out.

In my situation, I'm currently not on any kind of birth control pill or IUD or anything. Hubby and I do NOT use condoms - we are open to having another baby and prepared to coparent another kid. Boy and I DO use condoms but can occasionally be irresponsible (getting too excited during foreplay, starting piv then realizing we need to stop and things like that). Hubby is comfortable raising baby no matter what as his own - and the way he treats kids I've nannied for over the years convinces me he will 100% be able to do that (we had one of the kids live with us for a month during a parent crisis). If for some reason we suspect Boy might be the bio father, he is comfortable with Hubby being dad and Boy being dad2 or just "Boy who helped make you and is an awesome part of the family" with no parental role past the genetic input (although if his extended family finds out... Oooh, geez. Little girl and hypothetical kid would have three extended families). Boy has no desire to live with a baby, so while he WOULD step up and be a full time dad if necessary... It isn't a goal of his. If his feelings change, we've all talked about trying to live closer eventually anyway so that would become a priority. Boy is also willing to essentially pay child support (he'd buy a larger vehicle/pay for all maintenance, insurance, and fees and such) so that I could travel between homes with kids more easily if he is the bio father.

These are all things we've discussed. Not all at once, but it is important to us to minimize stress in case of pregnancy. Especially since Hubby and I, while not actively trying, aren't preventing.

 

[dingedheart]

Proving paternity, guys. Proving paternity is what is being discussed, not family planning, not having a frank conversation with your doctor, not taking care of yourself, and not how expensive it is to have a child.

NO ….whats was being discussed is a husband trying hard to avoid another pregnancy that’s not his. Because the method didn’t work.

This thread is specifically about her husband telling her what methods of birth control she is required to use, in service of the concept of being able to prove paternity.

Or it’s about a guy hyper concerned about unplanned outcomes that are not of his making that will NO Matter how much money he has or doesn’t have …underscore will effect his life and household. And it doesn’t matter that he’s not as enlightened as you or as progressive as you to care on the paternity of the child or children he does and that’s why condoms were requested. Clearly it didn’t work or there are questions regarding a broken condom so NOW we’re at a plan B.

Thus controlling her reproduction. This thread specifically is the answer to "where?"

that’s certainly going to catch on in mass.

This seems like a set up for a personal attack which I am not going to make available for you. You are making this a pretty unsafe for discussing that sort of thing, don't you think?

NO …I have 2 kids not afraid or ashamed to admit that. The reason I asked is because I wonder if you have spent the countless hrs caring for a new born and then all they way up the ladder. The sleepless nights …the Er visits, etc etc etc …the work and money involved. To cast that off as some feudal thing just seemed a little nuts.

 

[Magdlyn]

I don't think this thread needs to be so confrontational. Obviously it is a sensitive topic, and if you're poly and fertile, it is a concern of everyone. There are definite health, social and legal ramifications around the question of paternity.

Some women are lucky enough to have 2 fertile male partners who have come to agreements to share the parenting of any offspring. Some are not that lucky.

We could all try to be a little more respectful and kind to each other here, and be more patient. Some of us are more experienced in polyamory and have thought this issue through more than others. And that's OK. We are all here to learn from each other and share our experiences in a respectful way.

Most of my poly life has been during menopause, but I did experience some fears around birth control usage back in my early days of opening my marriage. Poly is complicated and we're not born knowing all the answers.

The OP wants to get pregnant. I wonder how long she has been trying to get pregnant with her husband. One way society has dealt with infertile males in the past (and today, in traditional societies) is for the woman to find a fertile male to impregnate her, while the husband and society either doesn't care, or turns a blind eye. One solution could be to do outercourse only until she is pregnant by her husband. Once the pregnancy is established, she could even go bareback with bf, if he is disease-free and mono with her.

 

[Marcus]

NO …I have 2 kids not afraid or ashamed to admit that. The reason I asked is because I wonder if you have spent the countless hrs caring for a new born and then all they way up the ladder. The sleepless nights …the Er visits, etc etc etc …the work and money involved.

My stance about paternity is invalid because you've had the displeasure of raising kids? Whether or not I have raised kids (which is not one bit of your business) does not validate or invalidate any opinion I might have.

That is called gatekeeping, and I don't bend to it.

To cast that off as some feudal thing just seemed a little nuts.

Now I'm nuts? I'll be honest with you, I'm getting a little irritated and feeling pretty ganged up on.

Paternity is incredibly important to you guys, and you will attack anyone who dares to question the validity of your stance.

Fucking noted

 

[dingedheart]

My stance about paternity is invalid because you've had the displeasure of raising kids?

NO NOT at All. It’s that your stance may lack the experience of how much intrusion is involved here. AND FOR THE RECORD I didn’t say nor will I ever say raising my kids was a displeasurable experience. IT WAS NOT !

Whether or not I have raised kids (which is not one bit of your business) does not validate or invalidate any opinion I might have.

VERY true. want to talk about race cars ….ever seen a documentary or read a book on race cars and or racing great you got some opinions. I’ve got time in the seat, spent numerous hrs in classroom and on various tracks, spent who knows how much money in that endeavor who’s opinion might carry more weight. NOT talking validity just has maybe a tad more knowledge and experience???

That is called gatekeeping, and I don't bend to it.

GOOD …NEVER BEND ….I admire that about you

Now I'm nuts? I'll be honest with you, I'm getting a little irritated and feeling pretty ganged up on.

wow sorry you took that so personal. I MEANT your idea of paternity being some antiquated relic left over from European aristocracy Is a little nuts. NOT you Per se.

Paternity is incredibly important to you guys, and you will attack anyone who dares to question the validity of your stance.

Fucking noted

THE thing I don’t get forgetting about the importance of paternity for me or a handful of other here on the forum is for a guy like you with your RA credo / life formula why is husband NOT entitled want or ensure that for his household.

If that was discussed going in / before opening up ….and NOW the goal post keeps moving it’s just too bad ? suck it up a kids a kid?

 

[GalaGirl]

Another thought...

If you just miscarried a week ago? How is this affecting both your partners emotionally?

Sometimes dealing with unexpected pregnancy and miscarriage is very hard for people. There's some grief to process.

So that might be playing into these conversations you are trying to have about managing sex after an accidental pregnancy and miscarriage.

Now that I'm recovering from the miscarriage, my husband keeps bringing up what types of measures he wants me to use with my partner to avoid pregnancy. We had found a new type of condom and hadn't had any breakages with it, but he wants us to use condoms in addition to my partner pulling out before he finishes.
I feel that is too controlling over our relationship but he doesn't. I do not use any other form of birth control at the moment.

If this is about TTA rather than TTC? Then I think it is reasonable to want to have a back up plan in case of another condom breaking. And if you don't want to deal with withdrawal, that's a reasonable thing too.

So as compromise? You could have Plan B on hand in the house. Or use another form of BC that is acceptable.

Am I being unreasonable for not wanting to do both?

So don't do that combo of Condoms + Withdrawal.

Do condoms + Plan B if one breaks.

Hopefully none break, and then you don't even have to deal with Plan B. But if one DOES break... there's the Plan B.

Could that solve it enough for all parties? He gets to know there are 2 methods in place, and you and BF get to skip withdrawal?

This is an area of overlap, an area of discernment.

It is your body, and your choice who you share sex with. This is true.

However, BECAUSE you are married, if you wind up pregnant? Depending on the laws where you live, your spouse may be on the hook for the baby. And maybe he doesn't want to be responsible for children that are not his bio kids. This could be true too.

When what you do with your body can and does affect him if you end up pregnant? It is reasonable for both of you to be concerned about that.

I personally want to get pregnant again and don't care about paternity, but my husband is very adamant about me not getting pregnant by anyone but him.

I encourage you to talk about your family planning with both partners and what that looks like and what you do/do not agree on.
And check the laws where you live so there's no surprises there.

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

Another thought...

If you just miscarried a week ago? How is this affecting both your partners emotionally?

Sometimes dealing with unexpected pregnancy and miscarriage is very hard for people. There's some grief to process.

So that might be playing into these conversations you are trying to have about managing sex after an accidental pregnancy and miscarriage.



If this is about TTA rather than TTC? Then I think it is reasonable to want to have a back up plan in case of another condom breaking. And if you don't want to deal with withdrawal, that's a reasonable thing too.

So as compromise? You could have Plan B on hand in the house. Or use another form of BC that is acceptable.

It is your body, and your choice who you share sex with. However, BECAUSE you are married, if you wind up pregnant? Depending on the laws where you live, your spouse may be on the hook for the baby. And maybe he doesn't want to be responsible for children that are not his bio kids.
What you do with your body can and does affect him if you end up pregnant. It is reasonable for him to be concerned about that.



So don't do that combo of Condoms + Withdrawal.

Do condoms + Plan B if one breaks.

Hopefully none break, and then you don't even have to deal with Plan B. But if one DOES break... there's the Plan B.

Could that solve it enough for all parties? He gets to know there are 2 methods in place, and you and BF get to skip withdrawal?



I encourage you to talk about your family planning with both partners and what that looks like and what you do/do not agree on.
And check the laws where you live so there's no surprises there.

Galagirl

Plan B wouldn't be a great idea in case she was already pregnant and not aware of it yet, from her husband's sperm, you know?

Shykitten, would you care to come back and reply to your thread some more and clear some things up? Are you positive the baby you miscarried was conceived with your bf?

 

[GalaGirl]

I was under the impression everyone was TTA right now since they just miscarried.

It would change things if she and DH are going to TTC on that side of the V while she's TTA on the other.

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

I was under the impression everyone was TTA right now since they just miscarried.

It would change things if she and DH are going to TTC on that side of the V while she's TTA on the other.

Galagirl

Well sure. It's recommended to avoid conception for 3 - 6 months after a miscarriage to allow the body to heal and cycles to re-establish. I was thinking more long term, that yes, if she's trying to get pregnant with hubs while trying to avoid pregnancy (TTA) with bf, that complicates things, especially if she doesn't care with whom she conceives, but her hubs does. She'd have to have fool-proof sex practices with bf while going all out with hubs. I don't envy this situation.

 

[dingedheart]

TTA I thought was tap that ass Which could fit here but what’s TTC ?? I didn’t get the new code book .

 

[GalaGirl]

TTC = Trying to conceive

TTA = Trying to avoid (conception/pregnancy)

 

[ref2018]

Friendly reminder from the moderation team:

Keep things civil, and if your post veers off the original topic, start a new thread in Blogs or General Discussions, or take it to private messaging.

Any further arguing between Marcus and DingedHeart in this thread will be handled at the discretion of the forum staff. Nobody is getting "warning points" yet, but it is expected that everyone will keep to the notice given above going forward.

Thank you, and I hope everyone is having a nice summer.

 

[MeeraReed]

I am sorry about your miscarriage, OP.

This is an interesting topic because I don't think there has been much (any?) scientific/medical research on how to avoid pregnancy with one partner while trying to get pregnant with another partner. With polyamory becoming more popular, this scenario may become more common.

If you have a poly-friend ob-gyn, it would be worth asking them. I am curious what birth control they'd suggest you use with your BF.

Condoms and spermicide? Diaphragm and spermicide? Plan B for emergencies would likely interfere with your fertility with your husband. Rhythm method probably isn't reliable enough. A vasectomy for your BF is too permanent and the male birth control pill is still in development. What other methods am I forgetting? Female condom? (Does anyone use that?)

It does sound like condoms alone aren't good enough, even with the better type of condom that doesn't break as much.

Abstaining from vaginal intercourse with your BF until you get pregnant with your husband might be the best way to go. Other poly people I know have done that. The BF in that case was perfectly willing to take strict measures to refrain from risking pregnancy so that he didn't end up with a child he wasn't prepared to raise.

But your husband's insistence on the BF pulling out doesn't really make sense to me. Withdrawal is notoriously unreliable at preventing pregnancy...I guess with condoms it might work...but seems both risky and mechanically challenging. I would personally prefer to have no vaginal intercourse rather than worry about breaking condoms and timing the "pulling out" just right, etc. Sounds annoying.

And yes, insisting that your BF "pull out" does seem like it's an overreach in what your husband can control about you & your BF. Your husband absolutely DOES have a right to ask that you & BF use a backup birth control method or even that you not have vaginal intercourse at all while you're trying to get pregnant with him...but he doesn't get to decide WHAT method that is. If pulling out won't work for you & BF, it's your & BF's responsibility to find a method that will work, and communicate that to your husband so he can decide if that mitigates the risk enough for him. But it will come across as awkward, weird, and controlling if husband keeps having to ask you, "Did your BF remember to pull out in time?" It's too focused on the mechanics of what you & BF do with your bodies/genitals.

But, the price of autonomy for oneself is responsibility for oneself...so, it's up to you & BF to find a backup method of birth control.

And, I don't think your husband intends to be controlling...it sounds like he's trying to find a compromise so you can keep having vaginal intercourse with your boyfriend.

 

[dingedheart]

TTC = Trying to conceive

TTA = Trying to avoid (conception/pregnancy)

thank you ….that makes more sense…at least coming from you

 

[dingedheart]

Shykitten is your husband and likewise BF aware of this forum and or this thread ?

ALSO do you currently have children and were they the product of you and your husband.
And how have you been open / dating / having sex with other people ?

 

[LilithHp]

Hello. Not sure if this is something someone has posted before but I need insight.
My husband and I opened up to poly a little while ago after much discussion. I currently have one male partner in addition to my husband.
Shortly after my newer partner and I got together, we had a condom break and I got pregnant. Unsure of the paternity of the baby, but I miscarried a week and a half ago.

Now that I'm recovering from the miscarriage, my husband keeps bringing up what types of measures he wants me to use with my partner to avoid pregnancy. We had found a new type of condom and hadn't had any breakages with it, but he wants us to use condoms in addition to my partner pulling out before he finishes.
I feel that is too controlling over our relationship but he doesn't. I do not use any other form of birth control at the moment.

Has anyone been in a slightly similar situation and can offer some advice?
Am I being unreasonable for not wanting to do both? I personally want to get pregnant again and don't care about paternity, but my husband is very adamant about me not getting pregnant by anyone but him.

Edit to add that neither me nor my partner like using condoms. We were originally only using them because my husband asked us to. Just feels like him asking my partner to pull out is just too much

Even with all the precautions in the world, pregnancy is always a risk when having sex. If your husband is not ok with the possibility of you being pregnant by somebody else there really isn't a way to eliminate that.

That being said, I personally believe that your autonomy and desire to get pregnant should take precedence. That's a BIG relevant thing here, the fact that YOU want to get pregnant. And you didn't even say he's not ok with you being pregnant, but specifically he's not ok with you being pregnant by somebody else. That's a lot of power to give somebody else over decisions about your body and your future.

If he is not ok with your vision and wants for your life, it sounds like that's the issue that needs to be addressed, not the way you and your partner have sex. The way you address that will depend on how important your autonomy is weighed against the importance of your relationship in its current format, plus the options available to you depending on your circumstances, where you live as others have mentioned, etc.