Confused on how to identify

G

GenerallyGeneric

New member
Hi, I'm looking for some insight to figure out how to identify and properly explain to monogamous friends and family as well as find some clarity for myself. I (25F) am married to my husband (25M) and we have a brood of children. My husband is in a relationship with a woman (33F). She was my friend before they were lovers. She is also pregnant with his child and she has other children from past relationships. I'm confused as how we should recognize our relationship because her and I have also shared intimate moments alone and with the three of us. She ocassionally brings up the fact that she identified as lesbian before bisexual and I don't know how to read that. Admittedly I have strong feelings towards her as well as being sexually attracted to her. As such I sometimes become flustered around her and I can see that she feels I am just trying to annoy her/act superior. I feel as though I missed her signals about her feelings towards me because all intimacy between her and I have stopped. I'm embarrassed to say something because if I misread her I do not want to make things awkward between us, especially since she is carrying my step-child. We also used to be neighbors in the same apartment complex but we recently moved which has caused a strain on everyone's relationship, especially theirs. Are we a Vee that took a momentary turn to triad, a triad that is on a temporary hiatus, I really don't know.
 
Hi GenerallyGeneric,

It sounds like you'll have a hard time knowing how to identify your poly unit unless and until you have a heart-to-heart with your metamour (the 33-year-old). You're probably afraid of rocking the boat, but sometimes it's best to have the hard conversations.

Since you don't know whether to call what you have a Vee or a triad, maybe you should just call it a trio for the moment. You are three people who have some kind of relationships with each other, and you are in the process of trying to figure that out.

But have that heart-to-heart with your metamour soon. Communication is so important, and you said it yourself: You need some clarity.

Please keep us updated on your situation, and I will try to offer some more advice/feedback.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Update

So I'm updating and it's not good. She basically did a complete 180. We went from looking at duplexes and exploring options for building a full apartment under a modular to her complete desire for monogamy. She doesn't want to schedule around 3 people, only 2. We did recently move so she has had less time but when he offered to move towards overnights with her she freaked out. I'm not really sure what to think. My thoughts are that the idea of someone being around more scares her. She expressed the desire for more time but ultimately pushes the idea away. It seems like a convenient reason because it isn't a possiblity as my husband and I won't be splitting up. It does cause stress and confusion over what will happen with the baby. Instead of my husband being the one to be around frequently in the child's primary home the child will have to be the one that gets bounced around and see him far less often in that situation. She does have another child who she only allows to go with the father two nights a month. It would kill my husband to have such a weak relationship with the child because he very much loves being a father to our children. We fully intend on hiring a family law attorney when the time comes so that he is not shafted like the other dad but it will still be an uphill battle. So lost, confused, and hurt. Now I'm rambling off topic so that's all I have.
 
Wow, I am sorry, but your friend sounds very confused!

You and she were friends and also lovers, sexual partners. She and your husband are/were lovers too. They conceived a child! Was that planned?

Now she wants to cut off ties with both you, her friend/lover, and your h, her lover and father of her unborn child? WHY? What is going on with her? You've known her a while. Any guesses as to why she would pull back now, during pregnancy, when she will need care and help while she gestates, and then help with the infant once it's born?

Whatever her reason, it must feel very saddening and stressful to have her start to isolate herself, from you and her baby daddy. Do you feel she was just using your h as a sperm donor to get another kid into her family unit? You sounded welcoming to her, ready to cohabit or at least arrange for her to have weekends with your h, and now she wants none of it. Ugh.
 
Not Sure

I'm really not sure what is going on. It seems to me that she has a very fairytale outlook on what a relationship is. Two people devoting their time exclusively to each other, going to bed and waking up together, no distractions or complications. I admit to having this type of view before I got married and it nearly tore us apart before I accepted that I had a romanticized view on what it meant to be in a marriage. We have both now accepted that it isn't desirable or necessary to spend every waking moment with each other and it's nice to spend that "away" time filled with good company and bonding instead of vegging out on mindless distractions. I would love to only have to work around just our schedules and nobody elses but that isn't realistic. We both have work schedules, friends, family, they eat into our time together but that is just fine. Having had four children myself I hate to bring up hormones but I do feel they might be at play. It's a time of big change and lots of fanciful thinking and dreaming. They still see each other although she has made it extremely clear that they are only FWB but then she recently started sending him things like "lots of love" and tons of heart emoticons. She doesn't want a relationship but she wants more than sex from him, she wants cuddling, watching movies, playing games, hand holding, kissing etc. To me that sounds just like a regular couple who aren't living together.
 
I am sorry you deal in this. I am frankly flabbergasted.

  • Is she bipolar or borderline?
  • Was having his baby supposed to help her cowgirl him off and she's mad it isn't playing that way?
  • Something else?

It sounds weird here. You and he sounded accommodating and willing to grow the polyship in good faith. Was that not the case for her? Did she have covert agenda?

I think he could ask for clarity because she could either date him properly or break up properly and sort out custody of the new baby. None of this...user-y sounding "neither here nor there" stuff. It sounds push-pull to me.

Is he her partner or her woobie? Much like some people turn to drugs or alcohol... is she turning to sex "wheee!" with him for self medication? Turning to Poly NRE "whee!" to self medicate? Make a new maybe "whee!" to self medicate? And all the "whee!" has worn off now and she is looking for a new hit from somewhere?

If he doesn't want to be used like a FWB wooble for whatever problems she's got, he could say NO. And sort this stuff out.

As for your romantic relationship with her -- let it go. Don't try to make it be a triad. That just ADDS to the mess. Not TAKE AWAY. Encourage them to clear whatever up between them.

I am so sorry. It's not sounding good. :(

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
She doesn't have any mental health problems as far as she has disclosed and certainly hasn't acted strange or alarming in the past few years. I don't know how to say this nicely but she isn't an intellect by any stretch of the imagination. It's not so much that she couldn't learn, she can just get stubborn and it takes her a little longer to accept when she has been misinformed. This has never been an issue but it seems her stubbornness is showing through in other areas now. I could see the "whee" factor at play, however I don't see it as malicious, manipulative, or maybe even not conscious. That is far outside her typical behavior. It is possible she is going purely off emotion, the NRE, the settling in, break up excitement, still having her cake and eating it to. It has to feel pretty good to be openly uncommitted while the other party still acts the comitted part. Thanks for your advice, I'll have him talk to her to try and sort this out. He generally leaves tough conversations as "pillow talk" so we'll see how that pans out.
 
I don't know how to say this nicely but she isn't an intellect by any stretch of the imagination. It's not so much that she couldn't learn, she can just get stubborn and it takes her a little longer to accept when she has been misinformed.
Click to expand...

Who misinformed her on what? Did you guys deceive her into polyship and pregnancy? It doesn't sound like it.

Why would she choose to get involved with you guys in polyship if she wants monogamy? Much less have his baby?

Are you saying she's in the habit of doing a Scarlett O'Hara? Whenever something hard to think about happens she dismisses it with "I'll think about it later!" but never stops to actually think it out? Which is fine for her, if she wants to be living her life that way. But not so hot when you and husband get affected by that behavior?

And now the reality of raising a child in a polyship model is harder to ignore, and she is balking and wants to bail?

I think that's still all stuff for him to sort out with her. He's the one dating her.

  • Are they partners? Or breaking up? (Set the FWB aside -- that just seems to add to confusion and mess, not take away from it. )
  • What will be done about custody of the new child? Can they come to agreements with a mediator? Or not?

I know it can be hard to feel, but regardless of how the people feel, those questions still need answering. And if there's a lot of hemming and hawing, it might be easier to call it "not a joyous yes, so call it a working no" so you guys get to move on rather than stay stuck while she spins her wheels.

I also think you could take her at her word.

  • She doesn't want to live all together in polyship raising kids
  • She wants monogamy. He will not give her that.
  • She wants him for FWB sex.


If I were him I would decline the FWB sex. It doesn't sound like a great offer to me. Esp when you are thinking you may have to sue her for custody and anticipate legal struggle!

How can it be healthy behavior to share sex with someone you are suing / are being sued by? Oy!

I think putting EVERYTHING on pause til these questions get sorted out is a better way to go. If she needs a check up, encourage her to go get one. Esp since this is unusual behavior for her.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
Hi GenerallyGeneric,

Sorry things have taken a turn for the worse. Your husband's girlfriend is acting rather strange. I don't get why she would want to bear a child but not have the father in the child's life. That's strange to me.

If it's hormones, like you were thinking, perhaps she'll change her mind again later on? I hope you are able to work things out somehow.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Sounds like Hormone Derange

A few red flags went up. She only allows the father of the first child to see that child 2 nights a month. <That looks like a potential control/punishment play)

She identified as a Lesbian, but now bi, now mono but not celibate, starts a relationship with a Married guy? Are we confused?

So, I have never been pregnant, but I have known a few women-pre-during and post and some can get very unstable mentally. This is certainly sounding like the case with this woman.

I am a bit of a Pollyanna, always sure that things will work out even when the car is clearly over the cliff.

At some point, she was on board with all of you. I think I would be approaching her a bit sideways and asking why she does not want her 'other father' more involved with her child.

That might give you some insight into what she is thinking.

Is she overdosing on chick flicks? I notice I even have fantasies of being monogamous, begin searching on-line for white chargers, wondering where I put my cape.

One of the hardest things to learn to do is listen...carefully and not offer and answer or solution, but instead to get even deeper clarification. All my clients have the answers inside themselves, they just don't have enough practice asking the right questions.

I suspect the only happy solution is going to happen between the two of you. Take away your husband's sex and cuddling. When she needs a cuddle you go. She might hissy fit a few times, but I think over time without his sex and cuddling and the two of you interacting more, she will work this out in her brain.
 
Another Update.

So I have another update. They ended up having a huge falling out and I told her she was acting out of character and she told me to stop saying she wasn't normal and she doesn't need help. I didn't say those things but I thinks she knows they are true and was deflecting before I actually said something. If you guys have some time could you peek through their conversation? I have my texts from her to me that I can upload too if you want and I can get their texts too. One thing she directly asked me to do was to look at their conversation so I could see how wrong he was. She got it completely flipped. Her behavior is incredibly out of character and I'm afraid the veil has been lifted rather than her changing temporarily. See for yourselves. Any advice or input would be great. I really need someone to talk to because this has caused me non-stop anxiety since then. Literally all day except sleeping and if I have a powerful enough distraction. I've never been this hurt or confused before and I don't know how to process this.

http://imgur.com/a/RMC3a
http://imgur.com/a/omBcW
 
Her behavior is incredibly out of character and I'm afraid the veil has been lifted rather than her changing temporarily.
Click to expand...

Yup. Something is sounding off there. I could be wrong... but are you here?

http://outofthefog.website/what-it-feels-like/

She makes me think of borderline or chaos manufacture or something. It's just not sounding right there. :(

Any of these thing a bell?

http://outofthefog.website/traits/

Maybe that helps reassure you that you are NOT imagining things. But don't try to dx her -- only a pro can dx her.

I told her she was acting out of character and she told me to stop saying she wasn't normal and she doesn't need help. I didn't say those things but I thinks she knows they are true and was deflecting before I actually said something.
Click to expand...

Sounds possible.

There's also something called anosognosia where the patient truly cannot see that they are ill and pointing it out just doesn't sink in or provokes them.

I suggest you stop talking to her about it. Don't try to be logical when someone is being emotional. They simply cannot hear you.

I really need someone to talk to because this has caused me non-stop anxiety since then.
Click to expand...

Focus on YOUR needs first. See a counselor for guidance and for your own support as this unfolds. This is a very stressful situation.

I didn't read your images of the texts. You could not right now either -- esp if it increases your anxiety. Focus energy on getting you a counselor first, not dissecting the texts.

Work with husband to find ways to REDUCE anxiety and INCREASE getting past this mess. Not prolonging your time in the mess.

Talk to a counselor.

  • For your own anxiety and stress support
  • For guidance on how to deal with her
  • For guidance if you both need to be gathering evidence to Baker Act her. Have them help you determine what is most useful and what is not.

Talk to a lawyer about custody issues. Learn what the options are.

Is she self harming or harming others? Do you need to call next of kin?

Seek help outside the trio, and seek help outside internet boards. This is sounding bigger than that. See if you and husband can pull TOGETHER to get this sorted out by seeking local professional help.

FWIW, I am sorry you are dealing in this. :(

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
Familiar

Yes! A lot of those traits were contained in just the single conversation I linked to.

Always Never Statements
Anger
Avoidance (Self Admitted)
Belittling
Blaming
Catastrophizing
Chaos Manufacture
Chronic Broken Promises
Circular Conversation
Confirmation Bias
Emotional Abuse
Engulfment
False Accusations
Fear of Abandonment
Gaslight ing
Hysteria
Impulsiveness
Invalidating
Lack of Conscience
Manipulation
Mood Swings
Narcissism
Not My Fault Syndrome
No-Win Scenarios
Projection
Push-Pull
Sabotage
Selective Memory
Self-aggrandizement
Self-victimization
Testing
Tunnel Vision

Obviously some of these have overlap but this is just from a single incident. I guess I'm really looking for validation that I'm not biased and he isn't secretly the asshole. I don't have access to a proper counselor right now and I thought maybe having somebody look and help me process or put me in my place might help.

It definitely doesn't seem like she is Borderline it is almost narcassist or histronic. Definitely something in the B Cluster.
 
Last edited:
It sounded like "one of the drama ones" to me too. But leave that actual dx to a professional. That is not your job.

In the chain of command? SHE would secure her own health care or ask for help getting it. If not fit, her next of kin would secure it for her.

Your husband is not is not her spouse or guardian or whatever. She broke up with him. Then put in a booty call.

Now that he's exBF, he could be firm in that. Stop listening to her tales of woe. Instead, call her next of kin and give them the heads up that they are broken up, but he's concerned she's behaving erratic. That's all I think he's morally obligated to do for her at this point in time.

If he's wanting to do a bit more, he could coordinate with next of kin and see about Baker Act and trying to help them out since that process requires evidence.

But if he's done and he mostly wants to focus on custody? He can be done. Stop answering calls, texts, and things personally. Go via lawyer only to sort out custody part.

The rest she can figure out on her own or her next of kin can figure it out.

I guess I'm really looking for validation that I'm not biased and he isn't secretly the asshole. I don't have access to a proper counselor right now and I thought maybe having somebody look and help me process or put me in my place might help.
Click to expand...

I can validate that it def sounds weird from reading your post. You are not crazy to think something here is just not right.

What's he doing that is asshole behavior to you?

Her asking YOU to read texts between her and her ex BF (your husband) so you can help her prove how wrong he is -- that's messed up and inappropriate.

Don't go there. Say "No thank you, not my place, solve it directly with him" and expect some rage to come your way. But stand firm.

Strive to TAKE AWAY from the crazy situation. Not be ADDING more complications to it.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
Mess

He isn't being an asshole to me. The only way I can best describe it is as her gaslighting, extremely successfully to her friends and family. Good enough that I do question that there might be some validity to what she is saying. I mean, logically you don't get pissed off at someone because you hurt them. She has herself and everyone around her that he did a serious mental number on here but I just don't see that as the case. I don't want to invalidate her feelings of being hurt but I feel she went overboard defending her perfect view of herself.
 
I don't want to invalidate her feelings of being hurt but I feel she went overboard defending her perfect view of herself.
Click to expand...

Sounds like narcissist injury if you are right about the narcissism. And she probably did go overboard into narc rage.

I mean, logically you don't get pissed off at someone because you hurt them.
Click to expand...

That's cuz you are not ill and you are ABLE to see that at this time.

If she's currently that erratic, it doesn't sound like all systems are running in good order in there. Why expect loopy lady to do or think sensible things right now when emotionally disregulated?

Don't make yourself crazy trying to point out the lack of logic or untangle her tangled thinking. Not your job. That's a therapist job.

Getting the therapist? That is her job to do. Or her next of kin's if she's too loopy to do it for herself.

You could get on with YOUR jobs -- Your own self care. And when stable with that, helping your husband with his job of figuring out what he wants. From this page, your husband sounds like he maybe wants "Coparenting with a person with a disorder"

She has herself and everyone around her that he did a serious mental number on here but I just don't see that as the case.
Click to expand...

Know what? Do not JADE.

AGREE! Agree that you hear her say he did a mental number on her (in her mind).

Just don't say that last part out loud. Could suggest that she seek health care to heal from it and could keep away from him so he doesn't do it again. Work with what you have to reduce the drama in you life. Look to the bigger picture.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top