Dealing with the breakdown fallout

[Soulseed]

This is complicated
I want to help my primary partner who is not dealing with his polyamorous needs not being met imo.

He has had an on again off again LTR with someone whom says that they are okay with his poly status but recently felt she could be easily discarded when he and I were fixing our relationship due to external issues. She put their relationship on hiatus. He has been looking for someone else, but having no luck.

I’m having to deal with the emotional labours and it’s damn hard not to take it personally as I am feeling rejected. Especially with the blanket I’m wasting my time no one wants me statements

I also feel my other relationship needs to be on hold and I can’t even just go ENM without hurting him at the moment.

Any suggestions on how to deal with this?

 

[Evie]

Wow, that is a complicated one.

Just to clarify, what are the "emotional labours" you're having to deal with - do you mean his negative self talk? Or is there more than that?

Also, a gentle reminder that just because he's feeling hurt doesn't mean that you are hurting him. Your other relationship is not the cause, and putting it on hold is not the cure. It sounds like he's wallowing right now, but please don't get sucked into the mud with him, and please don't feel the need to also put your other relationship on hold - that's just pandering to his wallowing and he'll stay down there longer.

It's hard to find people to date as a poly person but it's harder when you don't have confidence in yourself. He's so caught up in what he doesn't have he's not seeing what he does, and how that is impacting his attractiveness and success in dating. So, what's going to pull him out of his wallow and stop him being an unappealing prospect? Most of the time, the only person that can do that is the person themselves, often by getting interested in the wider world around them - your job is just have to avoid enabling them to stay down there - you can't be interested in stuff for him.

I hope he pulls his shit together soon, for both of your sakes.

Evie

 

[Soulseed]

Tha

Wow, that is a complicated one.

Just to clarify, what are the "emotional labours" you're having to deal with - do you mean his negative self talk? Or is there more than that?

Also, a gentle reminder that just because he's feeling hurt doesn't mean that you are hurting him. Your other relationship is not the cause, and putting it on hold is not the cure. It sounds like he's wallowing right now, but please don't get sucked into the mud with him, and please don't feel the need to also put your other relationship on hold - that's just pandering to his wallowing and he'll stay down there longer.

It's hard to find people to date as a poly person but it's harder when you don't have confidence in yourself. He's so caught up in what he doesn't have he's not seeing what he does, and how that is impacting his attractiveness and success in dating. So, what's going to pull him out of his wallow and stop him being an unappealing prospect? Most of the time, the only person that can do that is the person themselves, often by getting interested in the wider world around them - your job is just have to avoid enabling them to stay down there - you can't be interested in stuff for him.

I hope he pulls his shit together soon, for both of your sakes.

Evie

Thanks Evie,
Emotional labours - His pain of losing the relationship he had, impacts ours and he isn’t capable of giving in our relationship at the moment.

It’s the wallow, the complaining about how no one wants him and I hear that as inclusive of me.

I’ve said all of the things you have but he keeps saying he just has to suppress who he is and be a normal person.

I don’t want to hurt him more by putting my other relationship first. My other partner is studying for exams so is understanding and knows we will see each other soon

 

[Evie]

So it was more of a break up than a hiatus? Because you sorted your external issues but she's not reinstated their relationship? So he's grieving that loss. Grief is heavy, but his catastrophizing isn't helping. Can you send him down to the pub with his mates to get a little perspective? (I'm just thinking about the sharing the load here - you're currently trying to carry it all as his main support and that's not fair on you. Who else has he got that can help out?)

I'm glad your other partner is understanding.

I hope you've been doing things to look after yourself, too.

 

[Soulseed]

H

So it was more of a break up than a hiatus? Because you sorted your external issues but she's not reinstated their relationship? So he's grieving that loss. Grief is heavy, but his catastrophizing isn't helping. Can you send him down to the pub with his mates to get a little perspective? (I'm just thinking about the sharing the load here - you're currently trying to carry it all as his main support and that's not fair on you. Who else has he got that can help out?)

I'm glad your other partner is understanding.

I hope you've been doing things to look after yourself, too.

We tried the go out with mates, go out together and meet others but he is so in his headspace of no one wants to know him he is manifesting it.

His girlfriend has a chronic health issue that she is dealing with - they have had about 3 hiatus before - this one she has installed no contact. He hasn’t had to deal with this before. So yes it’s grieving. I try to be understanding but I am struggling and I don’t want to be in our relationship right now because he doesn’t have the capacity for our relationship.

I’m looking after myself. I’ve told him I feel rejected and suggested I move out for a bit but that’s just hurt him more

 

[Evie]

Sounds like he could do with a trip to the doc if this is that extreme.

I'm sorry you're struggling, it's hard work being with a partner who can't see the wood for the trees. I hope you live near friends and family so if you don't want to actually move out you can spend enough time around healthy people who are refilling your cup rather than draining it.

 

[Hanky]

It’s natural to lose attraction for a man who is showing weakness and vulnerability the way your primary is.

This is why I always tell men not to show vulnerability and weakness to their gf. And this thread is a good lesson in that, so any men reading this can take notes.

As for what to do for your bf? You can’t change him, that change has to come from internal goals and desires. Hopefully if you do break up it will be a wake up call for him.

 

[Evie]

JFC Hanky, the dude seems depressed. Showing vulnerability and weakness to Soulseed isn't the problem, the issue is that it's become a chronic state and he's not doing healthy things to maintain the relationship he has with her and heal from his grief over the other. They may need to break up to preserve Soulseed's wellbeing, or/and he could get some professional help to get himself out of the wallowing in his no-contact hiatus.

But hiding feelings from a partner is not the solution. He should be seeking help from external sources, too though - I hope you'd be a mate for any of your friends who were suffering and not just hit them with criticism that you tend to levy at men.

 

[Hanky]

I believe it’s a mans job to be the rock that his partner’s emotions can crash upon. And he can’t be that rock when he’s crying to his gf about nobody wanting him. That just makes him look weak and pathetic, and as we can read in this situation it makes the woman feel bad.

The only people I show weakness to ARE my mates. Mates or is I would say, my Bros, or “friends”; are the appropriate people to be vulnerable with. If I was this guy’s mate I would say “be vulnerable and weak to me bro”, “tell me what you are going through and let’s get you through this”. But then go home and be the rock in your relationship. Because that’s how you make relationships last, in my opinion.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm so sorry. I don't know if this helps you any.

The only times I dealt with something like that?

1) A past BF who was doing that kind of black hole of doom thing. He wanted to "act like a man" and not tell me what was going on with him on the insides. Fearful that he would look like a wimp. When really? I'm not blind. SOMETHING was going on with him. And leaving me in the dark about it? Was basically pushing me away. Not allowing either mental intimacy nor emotional intimacy. He preferred his false pride thing to actual relating with me.

When things became the CHRONIC black hole of doom? I asked him to see a doctor. He refused. So I walked out. I don't think mental health people are bad people. But I have my OWN mental health things like anxiety. I cannot be around UNMANAGED people.

Again, I didn't leave because he had depression. I left because he didn't want to deal with it, manage it, or talk to me. Many gf's later who left him for same reason? Unmanaged depression? He called one day from nowhere to apologize and tell me he FINALLY got therapy and was working on getting better. While I was glad for him, I also thought "What a waste of so many years in service to your weird false pride. Could have gotten help sooner!"

2) My DH went into a deep funk when his mother died. Other deaths we'd been able to grieve together and support each other through it but I think he just went weird when it was his MOTHER. I get that is tough, and I gave him some time and space. But DH was really going into a deep grief weird.

So I had to have a talk with him about seeking grief counseling. And talk to me about what we could realistically let go in home routines, what could be on my plate to clear him some space TEMPORARILY. And how soon he'd be able to participate in family life. Because he couldn't just check out forever leaving me with the care of everything else all by myself... PLUS tending to him in his grief. I was grieving my MIL too.

For myself? I went to talk to my friends (male and female) for extra support in this weird time. I lined up helpers with the house. I dropped stuff I could drop. I dealt with my grief stuff. I stopped talking to DH in words about anything important and changed to email. Because words weren't going in. Email? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, and at least I could pull it back up to show him *I* was holding up my end of agreements. There it was in the email with a time stamp.

That actually was a turning point for him and made him see that I wasn't being unreasonable or a nag or crazy. I really did email the thing when I said I did. It was HIM who was off in grief land and not parsing things well or meeting deadlines or being responsive in a timely manner. He got better little by little and I think the biggest turning point came when we had her buried properly with a stone and everything. CLOSURE.

You can offer to help BF make a doc appointment or even give him a ride to the doc. Reasonable and rational requests might be ok. But if he gets a dx? You can't make him really work his management plan with his doc if he's just not gonna. Or make any of his other decisions FOR him.
It may be that this up and downy thing with the LTR is better just " officially broken up" once and for all so he can get over it once and for all. Rather than dragging on and on. But that's not behavior you can do for him. He has to make that call.

If he's going on about "how he just has to suppress who he is and be a normal person?" Maybe he means he's realizing that he might WANT to poly, but he's not got the skills to be ABLE to poly well. So... maybe it's not just letting the LTR go. But letting you go, and the whole poly thing go. He has to do his own soul searching and figure out what he wants.

If you need a break from the negativity and want to move out? Move out then. Have your own space so you don't have to live in a doom cloud.

Maybe it will be a wake up call for him. Maybe it's not and he continues to sink in the mire. But you do't have to sink too just to keep him company.

If you have done what you can and he will not even take a little personal responsibility? It has become time to let go of the rope? Let go of the rope.

Galagirl

 

[Evie]

I believe there can be give and take in being each other's rock. I listen to my partners when they are feeling big things. And vice versa. But there is the expectation that we do the necessary work to heal ourselves, too. If this isn't happening, there may be a modification (or ending in the case of exes) of the relationship until such time as whichever person is healthy enough to participate in the relationship again, (or to move on and into a healthier relationship.)

Soulseed, I hope you find the right way forward for your own wellbeing.

 

[Soulseed]

It’s natural to lose attraction for a man who is showing weakness and vulnerability the way your primary is.

This is why I always tell men not to show vulnerability and weakness to their gf. And this thread is a good lesson in that, so any men reading this can take notes.

As for what to do for your bf? You can’t change him, that change has to come from internal goals and desires. Hopefully if you do break up it will be a wake up call for him.

We are married it’s not as easy for me to break up with him as it would be for his girlfriend

 

[Soulseed]

I believe there can be give and take in being each other's rock. I listen to my partners when they are feeling big things. And vice versa. But there is the expectation that we do the necessary work to heal ourselves, too. If this isn't happening, there may be a modification (or ending in the case of exes) of the relationship until such time as whichever person is healthy enough to participate in the relationship again, (or to move on and into a healthier relationship.)

Soulseed, I hope you find the right way forward for your own wellbeing.

Evie, that’s what I believe the Hiatus on the other side is for to become healthy enough to participate in the relationship again. I fear that in that process ours will disintegrate.

Time for me to accept the possible outcome, though I doubt he will give it up. It is on me to put barriers in place and not allow the deflection where he tells me how he supported me through the hard times. ( relationship with mother - not the same)

 

[Soulseed]

G

I'm so sorry. I don't know if this helps you any.

The only times I dealt with something like that?

1) A past BF who was doing that kind of black hole of doom thing. He wanted to "act like a man" and not tell me what was going on with him on the insides. Fearful that he would look like a wimp. When really? I'm not blind. SOMETHING was going on with him. And leaving me in the dark about it? Was basically pushing me away. Not allowing either mental intimacy nor emotional intimacy. He preferred his false pride thing to actual relating with me.

When things became the CHRONIC black hole of doom? I asked him to see a doctor. He refused. So I walked out. I don't think mental health people are bad people. But I have my OWN mental health things like anxiety. I cannot be around UNMANAGED people.

Again, I didn't leave because he had depression. I left because he didn't want to deal with it, manage it, or talk to me. Many gf's later who left him for same reason? Unmanaged depression? He called one day from nowhere to apologize and tell me he FINALLY got therapy and was working on getting better. While I was glad for him, I also thought "What a waste of so many years in service to your weird false pride. Could have gotten help sooner!"

2) My DH went into a deep funk when his mother died. Other deaths we'd been able to grieve together and support each other through it but I think he just went weird when it was his MOTHER. I get that is tough, and I gave him some time and space. But DH was really going into a deep grief weird.

So I had to have a talk with him about seeking grief counseling. And talk to me about what we could realistically let go in home routines, what could be on my plate to clear him some space TEMPORARILY. And how soon he'd be able to participate in family life. Because he couldn't just check out forever leaving me with the care of everything else all by myself... PLUS tending to him in his grief. I was grieving my MIL too.

For myself? I went to talk to my friends (male and female) for extra support in this weird time. I lined up helpers with the house. I dropped stuff I could drop. I dealt with my grief stuff. I stopped talking to DH in words about anything important and changed to email. Because words weren't going in. Email? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, and at least I could pull it back up to show him *I* was holding up my end of agreements. There it was in the email with a time stamp.

That actually was a turning point for him and made him see that I wasn't being unreasonable or a nag or crazy. I really did email the thing when I said I did. It was HIM who was off in grief land and not parsing things well or meeting deadlines or being responsive in a timely manner. He got better little by little and I think the biggest turning point came when we had her buried properly with a stone and everything. CLOSURE.

You can offer to help BF make a doc appointment or even give him a ride to the doc. Reasonable and rational requests might be ok. But if he gets a dx? You can't make him really work his management plan with his doc if he's just not gonna. Or make any of his other decisions FOR him.
It may be that this up and downy thing with the LTR is better just " officially broken up" once and for all so he can get over it once and for all. Rather than dragging on and on. But that's not behavior you can do for him. He has to make that call.

If he's going on about "how he just has to suppress who he is and be a normal person?" Maybe he means he's realizing that he might WANT to poly, but he's not got the skills to be ABLE to poly well. So... maybe it's not just letting the LTR go. But letting you go, and the whole poly thing go. He has to do his own soul searching and figure out what he wants.

If you need a break from the negativity and want to move out? Move out then. Have your own space so you don't have to live in a doom cloud.

Maybe it will be a wake up call for him. Maybe it's not and he continues to sink in the mire. But you do't have to sink too just to keep him company.

If you have done what you can and he will not even take a little personal responsibility? It has become time to let go of the rope? Let go of the rope.

Galagirl

Galagirl,
He tried therapy- is quick to say it doesn’t work and quits. The girl friend said that was part of the reason she was putting them on an indefinite break - he wasn’t doing anything to fix himself.

We have financial commitments, children and other responsibilities that make it a lot more difficult for me to do the same.

When I suggested I needed space to work out what I wanted he got very defensive and sunk further into his hole.

I’ve moved into a separate room for now. However I think I have to make it clearer than saying his behaviour isn’t attractive to me and I’m giving him space to sort his shit out.

I think you are right he doesn’t have the skills to do poly

 

[Soulseed]

I believe it’s a mans job to be the rock that his partner’s emotions can crash upon. And he can’t be that rock when he’s crying to his gf about nobody wanting him. That just makes him look weak and pathetic, and as we can read in this situation it makes the woman feel bad.

The only people I show weakness to ARE my mates. Mates or is I would say, my Bros, or “friends”; are the appropriate people to be vulnerable with. If I was this guy’s mate I would say “be vulnerable and weak to me bro”, “tell me what you are going through and let’s get you through this”. But then go home and be the rock in your relationship. Because that’s how you make relationships last, in my opinion.

@Hanky he says he doesn’t have any mates to be vulnerable with. His wife (me) is the only one he has to support him, we talk as his friend not his wife.
I’d prefer he go resolve his relationship with his girlfriend if it’s that important to him and I step away - I’ve said this and he just says that’s not an option.
He feels he should be able to he vulnerable with me. Which is probably why I seek out other relationships
I don’t mind him being vulnerable, I mind the impact the other relationship is having on ours. It’s like I’ve become the best friend and we are just domestic partners whilst he deals with the grief of a romantic relationship not working out.

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more info.

It is on me to put barriers in place and not allow the deflection where he tells me how he supported me through the hard times. ( relationship with mother - not the same)

Yes. Exercise your personal boundaries. There is a difference between rational and reasonable support and even leaning hard for a temporary time and then using you for a crutch forever.

Plus... consenting and being willing and able to do a job X months/years ago? Doesn't mean you consent and are willing and able to do it today.

I've run marathons in my young adulthood. Not happening in middle age as a chronic patient with mobility things.

He tried therapy- is quick to say it doesn’t work and quits. The girl friend said that was part of the reason she was putting them on an indefinite break - he wasn’t doing anything to fix himself.

Sounds like she ran out of rope for this and decided to let go. Now you have to consider same. How much rope do you have for this?

On his end?

Therapists can guide and assist but ultimately it's on the patient to actually do the work. Even the therapist cannot do it for them.

He could try something else. A different therapist, If 1:1 doesn't work, try a group thing, try reducing stressors, join recovery international. Find app services. Read a self help book. A combo of things. Whatever. But take personal responsibility and try something to help himself.

I kinda wonder.... Is he one of those people who didn't really want to be doing poly? But went along with it from fear of breaking up with you? And now it's come back to bite him so he's in a funk? Like it isn't ONLY grief that the GF dumped him, but other things too?

We have financial commitments, children and other responsibilities that make it a lot more difficult for me to do the same.

Yes. It is harder to untangle on your side of the V than it is for the GF.

When I suggested I needed space to work out what I wanted he got very defensive and sunk further into his hole.

All you can do is your end of the deal. And right now? It sounds like you are trying to do it. You have communicated how this is all affecting you. You have stated you need some space to figure out what you want next. That's fair to say.

How he takes things and what he does about it (or not) and what he communicates is his end of the deal.

I’ve moved into a separate room for now. However I think I have to make it clearer than saying his behaviour isn’t attractive to me and I’m giving him space to sort his shit out.

That is fair. Tell him. Hope you told him.

I think you are right he doesn’t have the skills to do poly

Have you told him this?

I’d prefer he go resolve his relationship with his girlfriend if it’s that important to him and I step away - I’ve said this and he just says that’s not an option.

Not sure what that means -- you "stepping away. "

But if you mean breaking up with him so he's free to be with the GF only and stop doing poly? He might not like the idea, but it IS an option for you -- that you decide to step away because this marriage with him is no longer enjoyable or worth the investment on your side.

It’s like I’ve become the best friend and we are just domestic partners whilst he deals with the grief of a romantic relationship not working out.

What did he say when you told him that?

If all you are going to be is friends and roomies? Well... could do that without being married. And the roomie part? Could let it go so you don't have to be living in a doom cloud.

Exes, friends and coparents might be a better relationship shape between you in this chapter of life.

Esp if he's been phoning it in on the marriage part.

I get where having you around for crutch might be an ok deal for him. I don't see where it's a great deal for you. There doesn't seem to be mutuality or reciprocity here.

I gave this tool to my kids. I think it can help people of all ages.

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don’t know how to work through, or don’t even know if you should? We’ll talk you through making these choices, including how-to’s on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.

www.scarleteen.com

However it pans out... I hope things get better for you. I hope things get better for him too.

Galagirl

 

[Hanky]

@Hanky he says he doesn’t have any mates to be vulnerable with. His wife (me) is the only one he has to support him, we talk as his friend not his wife.
I’d prefer he go resolve his relationship with his girlfriend if it’s that important to him and I step away - I’ve said this and he just says that’s not an option.
He feels he should be able to he vulnerable with me. Which is probably why I seek out other relationships
I don’t mind him being vulnerable, I mind the impact the other relationship is having on ours. It’s like I’ve become the best friend and we are just domestic partners whilst he deals with the grief of a romantic relationship not working out.

It sounds like you feel stuck and that’s a shitty place to be in. And I’m not saying all vulnerability is a bad thing. But I think men need to be careful with the concept of a wife being a “best friend”. Because some things should not ever be said to your wife, and wallowing in self pity is one of those things.

That’s why it’s important for a man to have friends. Because friends can support him with things a wife might not be able to tolerate. As a man I can tell you that a majority of women have very little tolerance and empathy for men’s struggles. That is illustrated here in your situation of loss of attraction, and also with Eve’s response to the situation: “he needs to get his shit together”.

So I think the best thing for him is to get a male support group of friends that can support him in the way he needs. It’s not your job to be his emotional rock. And you can’t fix this. He needs to wake up about how his behavior is affecting the relationship.

If you want to share this website with him, he can pm me for some support and resources.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Soulseed,

Even though you care about your primary partner (husband), and do not want him to get hurt, you still have needs yourself, and he still has a responsibility to care for and nurture his relationship with you. Tell him this. Tell him you are feeling rejected when he says, "I'm wasting my time, no one wants me." You may even want to add, "What am I, chopped liver?"

Personally I don't think it would be appropriate for you to put your other relationship on hold, you do not need to make everything equal in order to make it fair. Your primary partner needs to realize that the world doesn't come to a stop just because he is having difficulties. He still has responsibilities toward you, and you still have needs of your own, and your own responsibility to work toward meeting those needs. This is not to say you should put the other relationship first. It is just to suggest that you don't put that relationship on hold. You'll have to use your own judgment on that though. If you're putting it on hold so that that partner can study for exams, that's different.

It is apparent, from reading this thread, that you have been trying to reason with your husband, and he's just not having it. It may be that he doesn't really want a solution right now; he just wants sympathy. Which I guess is fair enough, but how long is this no-solutions sympathy-only frame of mind going to last? He has a wife and kids to care for, they are still his responsibility.

I hope things improve for you.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

I also believe and know that both men and women can be each other's rocks in a relationship. We are long past the era where men had to be emotionless robots, providers of money and a hard cock, and nothing else. Most women I know (who want to be in a relationship with a man) want a guy who can be strong AND sensitive, just like women can be strong and sensitive. It is very old fashioned and harmful to place these qualities on what it means to be a "real man" or a "real woman." We are not weak delicate flowers that need protection 24/7.

But leaving that bs beside, it sounds like your hubs is in a clinical depression. It sounds to me like he needs talk therapy and medications. (I am not diagnosing him, just going on what I've learned in life about how clinical depression looks.)

It's not your role to prop him up forever. We are all responsible for our own moods, behaviors, etc. I understand there are many people out there who refuse to get help with their mental health issues. I realize they may glom onto strong partners to prop them up, enabling them to just lie around and moan and stop grooming themselves while they refuse to seek therapy and stick to a health care plan. I know that we, as women, are trained to feel men's emotions for them and interpret their emotions and provide healing balm in the form of fun, sex, food, clean clothes, a shoulder to cry on, etc. That is too much of a burden! Men need to seek the company of other friends of whatever gender, for help and ideas, and to go to the damn doctor when they aren't well. No one woman can heal another person. All you get is a still-depressed husband and a burnt-out wife who may be so exhausted she develops ill health of her own.

In a healthy relationship there is give and take. You give (and get), he gives (and gets).

Do your own self-care first. Don't keep giving succor to someone who doesn't appreciate it. Certainly do not give your love, time and energy to someone who is saying "Nobody loves me! Boohoo!"

It's an effort to divorce, yes. But it takes a year or so and you're free. Then... no more wasting of your precious energy! Don't get stuck in the sunk cost fallacy.

 

[Evie]

I actually said, "I hope he pulls his shit together soon, for both of your sakes." Which has quite a different nuance than Hanky states.