DeepBlue in deep trouble... again...

[DeepBlue]

Hello everyone.

I am a 35 year old woman. I have spent the last 10 years with my husband in a monogamous relationship. We have one very much loved kid, she was born about a year ago, after many years of in the end rather desperate attempts of having a child.

... and I had actually thought: we have it all. I mean: we of course have ups and downs in our relationship, but we have each other, we have our beautiful child, we have a good life. I am quite happy with my husband. Most of the time, anyway. I have friends who complain about a boring or non-existing sex life. Our sex life is fine.

15 years ago, I discovered that I fall in love with more than one person at a time. It happened for the first time when I had been with my boyfriend for about six years. I fell in love with that other man. And I was really in love with both. Very much. And I didn't see any reason why this shouldn't all work out. But both of them saw many reasons why it couldn't. They both wanted me to decide whom I love more, whom I love enough to stay with him and say forever goodbye to the other one. I felt like I had been hit by a train or something... and I fell apart. I had been completely honest with both of them. But then my boyfriend forbid me to ever see the other guy, again, to ever talk to him, again. And in a very desperate attempt to say my goodbyes, I had sex with the other guy. It didn't make me feel good, at all. But I felt like I had to at least do that if I was to say goodbye to him for a lifetime. ... and then I desperately tried to keep it together with my boyfriend. But we were somehow broken, damaged. He never trusted me, again. He behaved very... possessive. I felt trapped. And I asked him for a break from our relationship about 1.5 years later. And that break... well it never stopped being a break. It took me many years to get over this, I was still processing it several years into the relationship with my current husband.

My husband... I met him when I finally felt ready to let go of that former boyfriend and that other man. I felt still heartbroken, but ready to start something new. (I had several rather meaningless relationships in between... but they are kind of not worth mentioning, I wasn't in love with any of those guys.) I told my husband very early on that I fall in love with more than one person at a time. (I had no clue that there is a name for this.) And I also told him than I was going to let go of any other person that I would fall in love with while being with him. Because I thought everything else would just damage our relationship with each other. I also told him that from my side, he was free to do whatever he wants to do. I know that I can get jealous, but I am very sure that I can work it out, too, get over it. Well... so that was our "deal". I think he never even looked at another woman in all these years, though. Not even when we lived on different continents. Or he is hiding it very well. But I don't think so.

I have been falling in love with several guys over the past ten years. And I let it pass. I tried not to flirt with any of them, although I might have failed on that a couple of times. But nothing serious ever happened, and I never felt like I want to bring any of them into our relationship. I sometimes told my husband that I was in love with someone else, but sometimes, I didn't tell him; he didn't seem to care much; it just didn't matter. But now...

Now, that man from 15 years ago is back. He has been "back" for about two years. We told each other that we want to be friends. We very seriously tried. We have met, mostly with my husband present, a couple of times. And it was all fine. They are friendly with each other, the man and my husband. And then, booooooom, I fell in love with that man, all over, again. And he with me. (And "nothing happend", yet... but the falling in love is kind of "everything", anyway)

It is an extraordinary feeling. One that I had not expected to feel in my life, again. It is a very strong feeling. And I don't think I will be able to let it go. I mean, you never know what life brings, maybe I will want to let it go some years from now. Maybe not. But right now, I don't think I can let it go, again. I cannot let him ago, again. I don't know what exactly I want to do with him. I have no idea. But I want to be with him.

And I need to talk to my very monogamous husband about my feelings. It scares me so much. I am so afraid that he will put me into that "him or me" choice position, again (even though that was not my husband, who did that, 15 years ago, it was my ex-boyfriend). I will not be able to make this choice, ever, again; I cannot again choose to be somebody who I am not; to not love whom I love. And I know that my husband will definitely not want me to have sex with or kiss that other man. For sure not. He will be very jealous. That's just him. And I can try to have a platonic relationship with the other man, but it is rather clear to me that this attempt will fail one day. So... even though I will give it a try, a desperate try, to make this work, to stay with my husband, but also develop a romantic relationship with the other man, I expect that in short, my marriage will fall apart. It is not what I ever wanted for my kid. I love my husband very much. We could be a very happy family. If there just weren't my goddamn feelings for the other man.

So. That's me. Right now.

 

[Shaya]

Hi Deepblue.

Firstly, a very warm welcome to the forums. This is obviously a very confusing time for you. You clearly value your current husband, but feel constrained by his monogamy and wish to open up. You describe him as very monogamous. You describe yourself as very non monogamous, and self identify with the philosophy of polyamory. It seems that you are saying that you currently feel your best option is to make a clean break with your husband and start fresh with your old sweetheart.

It sounds to me difficult to enter polyamory now. I know nothing about your current husband except that he seems very accepting of your feelings for others. However, even someone like him may feel insecure in the face of an old sweetheart whom you previously broke boundaries for to have sex with, and whom you plainly say you will leave your husband for if forced to choose.

It will be hard. Possibly too hard and your stated choice may be cleanest. But the more I learn about polyamory, the more I feel I don't really understand it and I wonder if you may be in a similar boat. I started by thinking how wonderful the concept was and that polyamory describes an ability to just have feelings for more than one person. I later thought it was less about the ability to love more than one, but more about your skills in being able to show your love and to provide security to your existing partners as you bring a new lover on board, otherwise it will resemble serial monogamy rather than polyamory. It involves being able to responsibly handle the excitement of a new relationship whilst still being committed to your other priorities in life including children and other partners. More recently, I feel polyamory is less about loving others and more about loving yourself. Because there will come a dark lonely night when all your lovers are off with other lovers and you will be forced to spend the longest lonely night alone with just yourself, miserable, with no one to prove they love you despite their claims to the contrary. Not going mad for someone who has previously been monogamous seems to involve having a strong sense of self worth. The list of requirements to do poly healthily is not the same for very person but there seem to be many overlaps and the list I started above does goes on.

I feel it will be difficult but not impossible. Some previously staunch monogamists have changed their minds after months of thinking about it. I have a few examples I will load later with an edit to this post. Please check back. My phone battery is almost dead. I will write more later.

You don't need to make a decision right now. Give yourself a few months before making a life changing decision.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

I do empathize with you. However, you do really need to take a look at the reality of your situation.

You have a very young child. Saying that your husband WILL accept a polyamorous relationship, what will that look like? You getting to go out on dates while your husband watches your child? That could create some serious resentment after a while.

You taking the child along on your dates? Would your husband even entertain that idea?

Timing is crucial. If you are honest with yourself, you rather invited this situation to happen. Reconnecting with an old flame, just out of the blue?

I am not saying you are wrong to have your feelings; they are YOUR feelings. The logistics just may be a bit much for your husband right now.

 

[Shaya]

Hi Deepblue,

I'm not sure if you're aware but the name Deepblue is actually a very famous chess program - the first to defeat the world's greatest chess player Kasparov. Deepblue is famous for being able to think so many steps into the future that no human could match it. Is that why you chose the name? For analytical thought?

I recently gave a whole bunch of examples for someone else. The poster had a slightly different situation to you and I was addressing an emotional affair that may already have started which may not apply in your case, but I thought examples 8, 9 and 11 illustrated that when you give control of the pace of the new relationship you want to form with your new lover.... when you let your current lover control that pace, it can work. All of the other examples given that don't work do not show evidence of giving control of the pace of the new relationship to the old lover. I'm merely guessing here, but I feel that humans are funny creatures and when we feel we are in control over a situation, we tend to accept it better. Heartbreak, jealousy, insecurity and random tantrums can happen when we feel a loss of control over our romantic lives.

My suggestion is to go for marriage counselling if you haven't already. Relationships are the hardest things in life to do right. Why is it that we expect ourselves to be able to do it right without research or without reading a how-to-do-it manual? We read a manual on how to fix a refrigerator, how to build an aeroplane, even how to cook. Why does society expect people to be able to do relationships right without an instruction manual? My point is that i feel we could all learn from others and can all better our relationships if we humble ourselves and allow ourselves to be coached on relationshipping.

I presume your old flame isn't going anywhere. Give yourself a few months to think things through. During this time, consider counselling, look into polyamory more, consider that you are feeling limerent and look into others with similar stories. No contact is hard but is often suggested as a way to clear your mind and to give your partner more security so you can focus on the task of reconnection with your husband, especially if you currently feel like you want to leave your husbamd already. After a few months, if It's not working, divorce is always still an option and old flame will presumably still be available for polyamory. You seem like you have a lot of options and choices to make and are at a crossroads in life. There also seems to be a lot for you to read and learn about yourself and relationships be it monogamous or polyamorous. You may also have to guide others on this path (old flame and husband). It's a lot of work and thinking, Deepblue. Maybe that's why you chose this name?

Good luck. Please consider coming back in a few months to give us an update. I'd love to see what you feel worked and didn't work for you and how things are going.
Shaya.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle. I notice your kid is 1. Have you been cleared for post partum depression? (In case anything like that is affecting you.)

I don't know if this helps you any. I believe feelings ensue after thinking or action behaviors. What behavior happened here? You reconnected with the old flame during your pregnancy. Now you are having crush/falling in love feelings that are causing you angst. Solution? Stop doing those behaviors and allow new feelings to ensue. Allow the crush stuff and angst stuff to fade.

Just because poly people have the capacity to love more than one person at a time? Doesn't mean they HAVE to be forming relationships with all of them who happen along. It's ok to just love them from afar and do NOTHING.

And I need to talk to my very monogamous husband about my feelings.

Then talk. What is is you need from him right now? Help thinking things out? Something else?

I am so afraid that he will put me into that "him or me" choice position, again. I will not be able to make this choice, ever, again; I cannot again choose to be somebody who I am not; to not love whom I love.

You can love whoever you want in your head/heart. Who is saying you can't?

If you currently have monogamous agreements? Before you pursue anyone else you have to change the agreements or end them. Who is saying you cannot ask to renegotiate your agreements? Your spouse is either up for renegotiating or not... but you can ASK. You aren't a mind reader.

If you fear having to choose between partners, why are YOU thinking of putting yourself into that position again?

I wonder if the old flame being around is triggering old memories or something.

But both of them saw many reasons why it couldn't. They both wanted me to decide whom I love more, whom I love enough to stay with him and say forever goodbye to the other one.

This was both of them saying "I don't want to be in a non-exclusive thing any more. I don't want do a V thing. I want an exclusive mono partner."

You could have told BOTH these old BFs "I see you want me to pick one or the other. You don't want to be in a non-exclusive thing any more. Well...I pick me. Because I DO want to practice multiple loves. Clearly we are not compatible for that." And let them both go, healed from the break up, and moved on to finding compatible partners for multiple loves.

YOU in charge of you and your choices. You are not a leaf blown about in the wind this way or that way depending on what other people say/want. Be more centered/ground in yourself and what it is YOU want/need. Operate from that centered and well grounded place instead.

I wonder if you need more practice with that? I notice you use the word "desperate" a lot in your post. Why do things have to reach desparate? Why not be in charge of yourself, be decisive, make choices sooner, and nip things in the bud so they don't get to "desparate" levels?

I told my husband very early on that I fall in love with more than one person at a time. (I had no clue that there is a name for this.) And I also told him than I was going to let go of any other person that I would fall in love with while being with him. Because I thought everything else would just damage our relationship with each other. I also told him that from my side, he was free to do whatever he wants to do. I know that I can get jealous, but I am very sure that I can work it out, too, get over it. Well... so that was our "deal". I think he never even looked at another woman in all these years, though. Not even when we lived on different continents. Or he is hiding it very well. But I don't think so.

Why would you offer a "deal" to your husband like that? Rather than ask for either (both Closed to start with option to Open later) or (both sides Open)? Were you trying to "atone" or something from the previous thing? To me it sounds like you were still basing your decisions on what you think the other guy wants (this time your husband) rather than being centered/grounded in yourself and making your decisions based on what you want/need.

Are you good at being assertive?

I know that my husband will definitely not want me to have sex with or kiss that other man. For sure not. He will be very jealous. That's just him.

You could ask him. Just to be sure. Or if you already know? Accept it. He's not up for any poly stuff.

I can try to have a platonic relationship with the other man, but it is rather clear to me that this attempt will fail one day.

If you think being around this guy will ultimately lead you to cheat on your agreements with husband?

And you are unwilling to renegotiate agreements with husband so there wouldn't be any cheating on agreements ahead of time?

Why bother going there and set yourself up for failure? You see the writing on the wall. Take heed.

Old flame hasn't been in your life for years, he doesn't have to be now. Why sign up for "desparate decision making" later on rather than just decide things now?

So... even though I will give it a try, a desperate try, to make this work, to stay with my husband, but also develop a romantic relationship with the other man, I expect that in short, my marriage will fall apart.

I don't know what that means. What's not working now? You seem to be in a marriage you enjoy. Where's the "desparate" come in?

If your current agreements are Closed, why are you moving forward with developing a romantic relationship with this man?

It is not what I ever wanted for my kid. I love my husband very much. We could be a very happy family. If there just weren't my goddamn feelings for the other man.

That makes it sound like you want your top priority to be your family and getting rid of the feelings for the other man. So align your thinking and action behaviors with that.

Stop hanging around with the other man if it inspires feelings you don't enjoy so the feelings can die down and fade away.

Stop hanging around the other man you don't have to resist temptations to cheat since you don't really trust yourself to stop yourself. Just make it so it doesn't even come up and you aren't "tested."

If you think fondly of him? Limit it to sending a xmas card or getting together only for Thanksgiving. Dial the contact frequency DOWN so you can feel better.

Are you not willing to do that? Take charge of yourself and your choices and where you put your time and energy?

You sound like you think you are at the mercy of your feelings or something. Or like you want to excuse yourself from taking personal responsibility for your choices.

YOU are in charge of your behaviors. You are not your feelings. You are not your thoughts. You are the person experiencing some feelings. You are the person having some thoughts. The one ultimately in charge of your decisions and behaviors is you. YOU are in the driver's seat. Not your thoughts or feelings.

I suggest before you do anything you get clear on what it is you want most and get better centered/grounded.

Galagirl

 

[WhatHappened]

And I also told him than I was going to let go of any other person that I would fall in love with while being with him. .....

.... It is a very strong feeling. And I don't think I will be able to let it go. ...I want to be with him.

And I need to talk to my very monogamous husband about my feelings. It scares me so much. I am so afraid that he will put me into that "him or me" choice position, again ....I will not be able to make this choice, ever, again; .....I can try to have a platonic relationship with the other man, but it is rather clear to me that this attempt will fail one day. So... even though I will give it a try, a desperate try, to make this work, to stay with my husband, but also develop a romantic relationship with the other man, I expect that in short, my marriage will fall apart. It is not what I ever wanted for my kid. I love my husband very much. We could be a very happy family. If there just weren't my...feelings for the other man.

It is unfair to turn this into an issue of 'jealousy' on your husband's part. You told him you would let go of any other man for him. That is what he wanted and agreed to and moved forward on--and now you're assigning a character flaw to him if he doesn't just accept that and smile.

These are feelings. You are not required to act on feelings. You DO have a choice. Hence the reason we have a word like CHOICE to begin with.

You said you've talked before to your husband about feelings for other men, so clearly this is different and not just talking about feelings. It sounds as if you've already decided you WILL move ahead with this other man.

I cannot again choose to be somebody who I am not; to not love whom I love......

This is disingenuous, however. You're not talking at this point about feelings. You're talking about behavior. It may be hard to shut off feelings, but we CAN choose whether or not to ACT ON those feelings.

'Somebody who I am not.' What you're saying here is that the only way to be true to 'who you are' is to pursue romance and sleep with, this man, right? This is a cop out. It's an excuse to do what we want to do, regardless of who it hurts.

In truth, who you ARE at the moment is a woman who made a promise to your husband, who had a child with him. Millions upon millions of people have had feelings for someone other than their spouse and done nothing about it and continued on in happy marriages. Because that's who they are...people who honor their promises and think of the impact of their choices on those around them, including their children who depend on them.

So when you talk about being somebody who you are or are not, consider if the somebody you are includes thinking of the welfare of your child, your husband, and honoring promises you made.

Or is the somebody you are...somebody who pursues every feeling regardless of who it hurts?

I'm sorry, but 'I have feelings' does not equal 'immutable identity' which does not equal 'entitled to act on those feelings.' And none of it changes that your choices have deep, powerful, permanent, and likely very painful consequences for your child and husband.

 

[sexyserb]

And I need to talk to my very monogamous husband about my feelings. It scares me so much. I am so afraid that he will put me into that "him or me" choice position, again (even though that was not my husband, who did that, 15 years ago, it was my ex-boyfriend). I will not be able to make this choice, ever, again; I cannot again choose to be somebody who I am not; to not love whom I love. And I know that my husband will definitely not want me to have sex with or kiss that other man. For sure not. He will be very jealous. That's just him. And I can try to have a platonic relationship with the other man, but it is rather clear to me that this attempt will fail one day. So... even though I will give it a try, a desperate try, to make this work, to stay with my husband, but also develop a romantic relationship with the other man, I expect that in short, my marriage will fall apart. It is not what I ever wanted for my kid. I love my husband very much. We could be a very happy family. If there just weren't my goddamn feelings for the other man.

You have orchestrated this OM back into your life on purpose, manipulated your husband into meeting him totally unsuspecting of what is in your head to do, and now you are wondering what your monogamous husband is going to do. Most likely the exact same thing as you last relationship men did.
Before you introduced them and let them hang out you should have told your husband right then that you intended on fucking him. It's called honesty, supposedly tha basis of polyamory.

So you really have yourself a pickle because you probably are going to lose your husband either way and for sure once you drop this news on him you will probably get the demand to get this guy out of his life, especially since you have been so disrespectful as to have your clueless husband thinking this was not what it is.

 

[Al99]

WhatHappened wrote:

I'm sorry, but 'I have feelings' does not equal 'immutable identity' which does not equal 'entitled to act on those feelings.' And none of it changes that your choices have deep, powerful, permanent, and likely very painful consequences for your child and husband.

I think this particular quote nails it, although similar thoughts were expressed in the other responses.

For me, having a one year old at home (with a decidedly mono husband) is the overriding factor. In my value system, the first priority would be to ensuring a stable home for the baby - which at this stage almost certainly would not include poly.

I personally can't even begin to imagine opening up a mono marriage for poly with a one year old at home. My wife asked me to open up our marriage about six months ago so she could explore her resurgent feelings for an old college boyfriend, and ultimately persuaded me to do so. And while we do have one daughter still in single digits - I can state with certainty that my wife would not have asked to open the marriage during her first three years at a minimum - and if she had, I would have asked her if she were out of her (!*!) mind?

My two cents worth... from a husband who was happily mono - and still only reluctantly poly. Al

 

[kdt26417]

Greetings DeepBlue,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Sounds like you are in a tight spot. You don't want to break up your happy family, but you also don't want to break up with the other guy. I feel your path is already set before you, so I won't try to give you advice or tell you what to do. I just wish you well and hope things work out further down the road.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!

 

[dingedheart]

I will not be able to make this choice, ever, again; I cannot again choose to be somebody who I am not; to not love whom I love.
.[/QUOTE]

I think this is the key statement that needs to be discussed with your husband.
Personally I'm a big believer that life is too short to live a stunted or forced life.

Unfortunately the things you said or promises you made were wrong and now you know it. Better to be fully honest about that now rather than embarrassing damage later. Also I think that this discussion is equally important to have from your husbands prospective in terms of who he's really married to. Personally in think it's unfair to just shove all this under the carpet and pretend all is well and nothing happened because something monumental did happen and chances are it's going to keep happening.



Couple of quick questions.

What long lost BF been doing the last 12-15 yrs. did he get married, does he have kids, etc.

Do we know how the old BF feels about polyamory ? Does he understand this is your nature ?

 

[Tinwen]

I empathize as well.

It is an extraordinary feeling. One that I had not expected to feel in my life, again. It is a very strong feeling. And I don't think I will be able to let it go. I mean, you never know what life brings, maybe I will want to let it go some years from now. Maybe not. But right now, I don't think I can let it go, again. I cannot let him ago, again. I don't know what exactly I want to do with him. I have no idea. But I want to be with him.

Is this really worth a divorce?
I'm perfectly fine if your answer is YES. Go ahead and speak to your husband about dating the other man and than handle his decision to stay with you or not.
If you think about it and your answer becomes a clear NO, I think you will be ok following Galagirls advice.

But I'm afraid of what will happen if you'll try to hold on both men despite them not being happy with a non-monogamous relationships. (Let me just remind you that your old love has been one of the men who were making you choose back then.) You will be in the middle of a conflict (again), torn apart by the opinions of others (again), finding yourself resenting your partner(s) (again).
If you are to try poly, they both have to be on board. AT LEAST respecting of the reality that you have two equally important (?) relationships and not trying to make your role as the hinge harder than it already is, but much better, supportive of building things together.

I am sorry, but if your partners are only willing to do monogamy, you will have to choose, and it may be the hardest thing you've ever done.
I do recommend taking time to think things to and working with a therapist if possible.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

We may have lost the OP at this point.

This is just the latest of the many, many posts of people who believe themselves in love with someone else, in spite of being in a monogamous relationship, and "can't help it." I've put myself in that situation as well.

However, these feelings can't occur in an environment that doesn't invite them. The OP doesn't tell us how she just "happened" to reconnect with her old flame two years ago. If she wasn't deliberately looking for a rekindling of her romantic relationship with this man, it just wouldn't have happened.

We are not slaves to our feelings. Sometimes I wonder how many of the posters who stumble across this site are actually polyamorous, or are, instead, just looking for drama and excitement. There is nothing inherently exciting about being married for 10 years with a baby. Add "the one who got away" into the mix, and you have a soap opera.

I do very much believe that polyamorous relationships are every bit as valid as monogamous ones. I just get annoyed when I read so many examples of questionable behavior justified because someone just figured out they're "poly" and can't deny their "true" nature any longer. It doesn't wash.

 

[Shaya]

I think people get excited about polyamory. Hearing of a different philosophy to monogamy can be immensely uplifting and freeing. The news articles in the top Google hits of poly market poly as "if you can love more than one then you might be poly". That sets up false expectations. Most of the world I believe is capable of loving more than one at a time - the phenomenon in fact eventually forces us to choose between one or the other of our loves and forces most of the world into serial monogamy. Polyamory i believe is more than just having feelings for multiple people, it is about being able to make multiple relationships work.

 

[Tinwen]

This is just the latest of the many, many posts of people who believe themselves in love with someone else, in spite of being in a monogamous relationship, and "can't help it." I've put myself in that situation as well.

If you've put yourself in that situation, you know that that spot is very tough. I agree with you (from my experience) that a part of it must be seeking excitement/novelty/ whatever has been missing from your life.

However I disagree that people are "deliberately looking to rekindle romance" or anything of that kind. This is not conscious. To the person who fell in love it can easily feel sudden and overwhelming. They were perhaps looking for just a little bit of connection on the friend-like level, and suddenly - and this can happen very suddenly - they get this flame with an intensity they've maybe felt only once or twice in their lives. Or never.

The problem is, people (myself including) really don't know what they are doing with romance and connection, and are not able to catch the first signs. Hence, they get pulled all the way in. And it's understandable, really - how would you know what you are doing, if you haven't lived through the experience yet (or even if you have lived through it just a few times)?

Those who've had a lot of crushes, or a lot of possibilities to "practice" dealing with falling in love can say easily that you can ignore love. They also know that their next crush is not far away. Those who just seldom experience romantic love are much less prepared when it comes, prone to believe that they'll miss their most incredible opportunity in life it they don't go along with this. The worst part about that is, in some cases, that might be even true.

I also don't like telling people that "we're not slaves to our feelings". I admit that I'm taking this personally, for I admit that I've been "slave to my feeling" for quite some time when it comes to love.
People are not zen monks and can't control all of their emotions. E-motion is what sets us in motion, and sometimes for good reasons. Emotions can get out of one's hand.

I do believe that some relationships are life-changing and should be respected as such. Falling in love exposes us. It may show all the things that haven't been working in one's life. It may show hidden desires of the psyche and ultimately lead the person to integrate more of herself. The "deliberately looking to rekindle romance" part may be a (indeed desperate) subconscious search for things we've lost on the way - and that's why it feels like we're more whole with the other person. He or she has (or brings out in us) the traits we've been wanting to find in ourselves all along.

I do very much believe that polyamorous relationships are every bit as valid as monogamous ones. I just get annoyed when I read so many examples of questionable behavior justified because someone just figured out they're "poly" and can't deny their "true" nature any longer. It doesn't wash.

We're in agreement on the "figured out they are poly" part. There's little validity in justifying behavior by adopting a label.

I just call for understanding when it comes to people being caught off guard by love. The feeling is perfectly valid (although it's meaning should maybe be sought more internally than in the object of our attention), and deserves to be worked with - with full consideration to the person asking for advice, just as you would have, if he or she was overwhelmed by a negative feeling. Yes, feelings cloud judgement. Do we usually tell an anxious person that she's being irresponsible for not overcoming anxiety? Do we judge them for not trying enough? No, we encourage them. Now, while people in love may need a less gentle nudge, they don't deserve judgement either.

 

[Shaya]

I think you said it well, Tinwen. Being in love makes one do stupid things for love. Humans will be human.

On an intellectual level, I find that there is an approximate spectrum of emotions that society expects us to handle ourselves or that society forgives. Anger, jealousy, new-found love, anxiety, depression, long standing love, grief, just to name a few. These are all emotions of ours. Yet, society expects us to control our anger but many will forgive you if you do something they don't approve of but if you did it because you were grieving.

Just food for thought, with apologies to the opening poster whose thread we've just hijacked.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

I simply believe that we must accept responsibility for our actions, regardless of our emotions, especially if our resultant behavior negatively effects others.

I have "earned" a far more pragmatic view of love and relationships, after decades (I'm 47) of letting wild emotion dictate what I do. While I am certain this may strike some as horribly unromantic, I no longer spend angst-filled nights crying uncontrollably at the mess I have created for myself. Everyday life creates enough drama as it is.

 

[Tinwen]

I have "earned" a far more pragmatic view of love and relationships, after decades (I'm 47) of letting wild emotion dictate what I do.

Yes I know and appreciate that. I just needed to say that not everyone can possibly be at that stage, and it's not a ... fault.
Responsibility is important. Sometimes people fail.

I'm good with you, and it's not just you I'm opposing. It's been on my mind for a while now.

 

[DeepBlue]

We may have lost the OP at this point.

No. No, you haven't lost me. It is just hard to write a response. I will. With time.

You wonder how that reconnecting happened. After some years of no contact, the other man had started calling me. We had this "love from a distance", "be ok with seeing the other one have a happy life" thing going for several years. We talked like twice a year. sent another two or three long e-mails each year. That started five years ago. Two years ago, he asked to see me.

It happened because the other man's wife took on a lover. And he decided not to make her choose. But he felt very bad. He came to me for advice, to hear how it all played out for me all those years, ago. That had been a topic that we carefully never mentioned on the phone or in an e-mail. I couldn't give him any good advice, though. They also have kids. So far, everything worked out great for the kids. Wife and lover are happy. Wife and man are... still in a difficult situation. Man and lover are doing ok. (And no, he did not contact me to start a new relationship with me to take revenge on his wife.)

... and the other man does not want to make me choose, now. He actually wants me to work it out with my husband. The other man and me, we are very open on how our relationship might play out to be. We can imagine to move together, live together, maybe even have another kid together. And we can imagine to see each other once a year for one or two weeks. (That had been the plan, anyway, a plan that my husband had agreed upon... he doesn't agree, anymore, now...). So. The other man is not making my any trouble, right now.

I have talked to my husband. And he reacted exactly the way I expected. No way that he can have a wife who starts a relationship with another man.

Yes, I think this is worth a divorce. I don't really want that divorce. I love my husband, and I will continue to love him after a divorce; it will make me so sad. But letting the other man go will be worse. Even though the entire circumstances are a mess. In many ways.

But I am hearing your advice. I am taking a time out. I am not going to see the other man for the next six months. Out of love for my husband. And because we need time to figure things out. What kind of separation will we get. Or maybe, maybe, maybe he will change his mind. We need to take care of our kid. We have to develop a life mode where our kid is not a piece of luggage that is handed from one to the other every two weeks. That would be horrible. We cannot have a messy divorce.

 

[Tinwen]

Yes, I think this is worth a divorce. I don't really want that divorce. I love my husband, and I will continue to love him after a divorce; it will make me so sad. But letting the other man go will be worse. Even though the entire circumstances are a mess. In many ways.

But I am hearing your advice. I am taking a time out. I am not going to see the other man for the next six months. Out of love for my husband. And because we need time to figure things out. What kind of separation will we get. Or maybe, maybe, maybe he will change his mind. We need to take care of our kid. We have to develop a life mode where our kid is not a piece of luggage that is handed from one to the other every two weeks. That would be horrible. We cannot have a messy divorce.

You seem to have decided and to be going responsibly about it. Wish you best of luck.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

Taking a break is all well and good, and is probably the best thing. However, the IDEA of a relationship with this other man will still be lingering with you. Please be aware that your "fantasy" relationship with this man will likely be a far cry from reality.

You never had a true relationship with this man. It was always a furtive, forbidden romance. You were "forced" to let him go. All you remember of him is how in love you were, how wrong it was, how unfair circumstance is to separate you. You don't remember the stupid jokes he tells (over and over), or how he leaves the toilet seat up. Your relationship was never faced with real life.

If only to keep you from blowing your life apart for the sake of an illusion, I very strongly suggest counseling; preferably a poly-friendly counselor. I don't think you are stupid, or a bad person, but the thought of a dramatic, all-consuming romance can be very compelling. It is also unsustainable.