"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policies: Merged threads/General discussion

redpepper said:
I kinda figured Joreth was a metamour of yours, Ceoli. She had interesting timing a while back.
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Funnily enough, that timing was entirely coincidental! She joined this board a bit before I started exploring the possibility of a relationship with Tacit. Though I think right now we're still in potential land. We're still really just figuring out what we could develop into, in the given circumstances.
 
Ceoli said:
That timing was entirely coincidental! She joined this board a bit before I started exploring the possibility of a relationship with Tacit. Though I think right now we're still in potential land. We're still figuring out what we could develop into.
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Cool! Things are so strange, sometimes.

I hope something can be figured out. If not, I'm sure the experience will put you on a more enlightened track when you get back to London. Good luck to you.
 
I feel like this thread has gone a really interesting direction. When I think of a DADT policy in terms of an open relationship, my automatic thought is situations where no information, or very very little information, is shared about metamours to other metamours. Like, situations where there's an open relationship, but the partners involved don't want to know if their partner is involved with someone, much less who, or to what extent, and that's the sort of situation that I find unhealthy, and the situation that comes to mind when someone says "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

That said, what do I personally try to negotiate for? At bare minimum, I like to know names of who my loves are involved with; I like to hear some base information on who they are and what their interests are; if they look to be someone who's going to be around for awhile I like to meet them. As far as any sort of sexual involvement, the only information I feel I need to know is whether they are or aren't actively sexually involved. I don't need to know the whens or hows, though I honestly don't mind if it's shared. (I personally love to talk about sex in general, so I do enjoy conversations about sex, but I don't consider these conversations to be a vital part of being functionally poly.)
 
Umm... I'm just wondering where all the other men are on this topic. My views of this level of detail are definitely much different and I am wondering if I am just a freak.

The only thing I really need to know is that Redpepper is intimate with someone. Outside of that, I don't want to know. With her tertiary, I know they are sexually involved, so I do not need to know when or what they do, unless it could affect my health or hers. They have a sexual/BDSM relationship. That's all I need. No more, please, not necessary and not interesting to me.

Oddly enough, we all had a great time at the BDSM event, but I don't need to know about anything they do behind closed doors.

We've talked about this before, and she knows that I prefer simply to know that they have a relationship that involves sexuality, and have discussed how to avoid any unnecessary discomfort around it, for me. And yes, it is about me. I'll own that and am totally cool with it.
 
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A little late coming into this conversation, but that's an amazing project, Drunken Porcupine!
 
I liked the article. I think, for me, it's much like RP says. I could sit here and list all sorts of similarities and differences between Maca and GG. In point of fact, I do it a lot with GG. But I don't with Maca. I will simply stop the thought right there, and if either of them cares to elaborate, well, they can log in! :)
 
redpepper said:
They are all lined up in front of Mono's apartment building. Poor dears, they are hoping one day he won't be mono.
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They are actually men dressed up like women hoping to get dirt on me so you'll dump my ass and I'll be out of the way. ;)
 
This has been an amazing thread. And I've finally reached the bottom of it. :)

I am surprised to see DADT being discussed as a viable structure within a polyamorous relationship. In other discussions I've seen or participated in, it has been shut down nearly across the board as unhealthy. I feel joyful that it is not the case here.

I am a private person, as well. I feel there should be boundaries between the relationships in a larger poly relationship, unless all involved naturally feel comfortable getting closer. I specifically mean metamours here. I do not feel they have to connect to each other in any meaningful way, or try to connect. It happens naturally or it doesn't. Because of this view, I would not have a problem being with someone who has a DADT relationship, once it was clearly known by all parties that more than one relationship existed around the pivot person.

There is also a progression of trust and intimacy for me. I share profound aspects of my life and myself with my love. I am in a dyad. We've been together for nearly 4 years and known each other a little longer than that. With someone new, I wouldn't share as much until I felt ready.

Once, while getting to know someone new, I shared something personal about myself and asked that it be kept secret. I was told that all partners would be told because they didn't keep secrets from each other. That really perturbed me and I did not feel inclined to share anything very deep about myself again because of the lack of privacy. It felt very uncomfortable and felt intrusive.

In the end striking a balance between everyone's comfort level seems to be the key.

~Raven~
 
Interesting that even the term DADT seems to mean different things to different people.

The form of DADT that is unhealthy for me is one where one partner claims that another is ok with their non-monogamy, but does not want to know another relationship even exists, much less who it is with or, heaven forbid, actually interact with the metamour at any time.

Having different levels of comfort about discussing details within open relationships is simply that to me: different levels of comfort that are more connected to the individuals involved rather than the relationships. As such, I think those sorts of conversations are best left to negotiations between each dyad.

To me, the difference is simple. If I call the house and your SO answers, will the phone be cheerfully handed over? If we are seen together out in public, and it is mentioned to your other partner, will they be ok with that? If a medical emergency occurs when you are with your other partner, will I be notified?

If the answer to questions like these is yes, then I don't define that relationship as a DADT in my lexicon, regardless of the level of disclosure beyond that bare minimum. My presence and our relationship are acknowledged and accepted, and while that may not be my preferred depth of connection to metamours, it is a situation that doesn't feel inherently unhealthy.

If the answers are negative, then I really don't want to be a part of that sort of configuration, because it makes me feel as though we are cheating, even if we technically are not.

One of the reasons I am out to virtually everyone in my life is because I like to talk about my life. It's far easier to simply explain once who everyone is, instead of censoring myself when I talk about something that I did with Rosevette, or an event that the four of us attended, or even conversation about the various kids in our family.

To participate in a DADT relationship would require me to restrict my casual conversations in fear that something I said might reach the ears of my partner's SO and cause problems.

I find that my partners mostly are not interested in hearing intimate details about each other, and while I would be comfortable with such discussions, I don't really need them. But we do chat about the mundane things that happen in everyday life and that is something that I do prefer.

Perhaps because there was no "primary couple opening up" in any of my configurations, many of the protective rules simply never have applied to the relationships that are in my life.

Whatever it is, I am blessed to have found such a wonderful family of choice who share the same vision and values as I do.
 
I tend to agree with constlady, there seem to be differing definitions or applications of DADT.

For me it means the "dirty little secret" thing, which usually stems from denial. "Yes, have your boyfriends but I don't want to know about them, and I won't let you let it affect our lives" is one thing. Is that polyamory? Well, everyone knows about what is going on at some level so it's open and honest. Is anyone getting hurt? I think that the important thing there is to look at the reasons why it is put in place and to work out whether that is healthy or not. So it's polyamory, yes, but whether it is healthy or not is dependent on the individual.

The other application seems to be that of sharing the intimate details of your life with your other partner. That, too, has to be in individual choice, in my opinion. Part of the negotiation when a new relationship configuration starts can definitely be a discussion about how much of your relationships are kept private. Some people are a lot more "out there" than others about their lives - some to the point of blogging their intimate details. Some are far more private, and don't even want to share it with their other lovers. I think there is definitely room for personal preferences there and I don't see that as anyone being in denial about anything.

For us, in our current relationship, we know the intimacy level of everyone involved, but that is it - what goes on in the privacy of the bedroom (or whatever other place similar activities take place) is private between those in that space at that time. It works for us.

It's something that we have learned from experience - and I think that experience goes a long way to helping us make up our minds and form our thoughts about what we do, and don't want. I know I had a very different idea about it before getting into our first relationship, and the refining has continued over the years.
 
MonoVCPHG said:
I'm wondering where all the other men are in this topic. My views of this level of detail are definitely much different, and I am wondering if I am just a freak.
The only thing I really need to know is that Redpepper is intimate with someone. Outside of that "I don't want to know". With her tertiary I know they are sexually involved so I do not need to know when or what they do unless it could affect my health or hers. They have a sexual/BDSM relationship. That's all I need. No more please, not necessary and not interesting to me. Oddly enough, we all had a great time at the BDSM event, but I don't need to know about anything they do behind closed doors.
She knows that I prefer simply to know that they have a relationship that involves sexuality and have discussed how to avoid any unnecessary discomfort around it for me. And yes, it is about me, I'll own that and am totally cool with it.
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This thread has really been enlightening for me.

Mono, it seems you and I share some similar perspectives on this topic. This is one I have been struggling with. I have feelings that my partner (M) is finding it difficult, as to what to tell and what not to tell. I'm not sure if she believes me entirely when I tell her that I am open to learning about and participating in this type of a lifestyle. I am not entirely certain if she is involved with anyone else at this present moment. But if time tells me that she is, or has been, I can understand her difficulty in telling me, due to confidence issues I have displayed in the past.

This may sound a little selfish, but part of the reason why I am so intrigued about being involved with a poly woman is the fact that I can test some of these personal challenges I used to face when it comes to confidence. The bigger part of the reason is that I love her and everything about her (flaws and all). If something comes to light, and she tells me she's been with another man, I've had a lot of time to think about what my reaction would be. On the one hand, I want to commend her for facing her fears and telling me about it (the details of which I don't need to be privy to). But the who and why would most definitely be interesting to me. On the other hand, I don't want to get angry about it, but it is a frustrating feeling to feel like your significant other thinks you can't handle information.

I'm not sure I believe in DADT entirely, and that will vary from individual to individual. But being a mono man with a poly woman, the only things that I would undoubtedly want to know are who, and possibly why (why they love this person), and if anything came up concerning her health, my health, or his health, for that matter.

The biggest thing, it seems, is knowing how much information your partner wants to know, how much you're willing to tell them, and trusting their response. Because, lets face it, if you're with someone and you're not willing to trust in their reaction and understanding, then why are you with that person?

*Does anyone else agree with this? I wanna make sure I'm not crazy.* lol
 
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In many ways, I'm a very private person. And I believe that what is intimate between two people loses it's intimacy when it's public fodder, or when either person feels free to just talk about it to anyone who asks. For me, respecting my privacy, and OUR privacy, is part of what I ask of a partner. And it's part of the respect I give my partner with his other partner(s).
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I'm going to bump this thread. This quote (on a reread) triggered it. :)

I mentioned in my "Life Stories" post that my wife and I had an amazing talk about one of the ladies I'm head-over-heels for.

A sub-topic in this discussion was "How much we're comfortable sharing." And I don't mean sexual details, because at this point, my wife knows all of my sexual details, since I'm not having sex with anyone but her.

I asked the very blunt question: "What do you think about A?" The answer was probably very honest, tinged with feelings of challenge and insecurity, but the overall gist was that she didn't feel she'd had enough relation time with A to get a very good impression.

Yet, when we ended the conversation, my wife did make a comment, playfully, with that all-too-much-seriousness that I can detect, about "sharing this with your friends."

On the subject of "friends," I'm specifically referring to her metamours. (Am I using that term correctly? My partners that she, through me, is involved with?) But I'm not sure she gets the level of intimacy I have with them. In contract, she has far less connection, but far more sex with her partners. :p

Anyway...

The flip-side of removing DADT policies is the risk of oversharing. I don't share with people I don't deeply trust, and yet, my reading of her sense of trust is still a little off. I don't think I have a point beyond "It's a delicate balance," but it certainly can feel like a quagmire sometimes.
 
DrunkenPorcupine said:
The flip-side of removing DADT policies is the risk of oversharing. I don't share with people I don't deeply trust, and yet, my reading of her sense of trust is still a little off. I don't think I have a point beyond "it's a delicate balance," but it certainly can feel like a quagmire sometimes.
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Good point. I certainly don't share everything with my men; I ask if they want to hear details, and neither does. I want to hear details about my husband and his boyfriend, but he isn't interested in telling me and I respect that. What we do pass on is the feelings part, and the parts where we have been moved in some way to know more about our partners, or to know something special that might be of interest, not to mention what we have discovered about ourselves.

I think, for me, the crux is the fine line between not telling and telling. In that space is the freedom to be open as much or as little as we all feel comfortable with, including speaking about what happens to us and asking questions.
 
DADT... I'm poly, he's not... HALP!

Hello all. New to the forum and glad to be here. = )

I keep running into the same struggle: I want and need an open relationship. Boyfriend does not, says it makes him "miserable"! Back and forth, etc., ad nauseum.

We have been going out for seven years and I intend to marry him when the financial situation is right. I want to be with him for life, and will do just about anything to make this relationship work.

He is "naturally monogamous" and I am "naturally poly," if you know what I mean.

I have told him I feel like I simply can't feel right doing monogamy (and I've tried!); he feels the same way about poly. Even though I know he'd probably like to sleep with other people, given the chance, he just thinks its more important not to hurt my feelings. He apparently doesn't believe in compersion.

We are currently in a long distance relationship, since September. Before that, we saw each other every day. Now I see him about once a month. It will be like this at least for another few months.

I have cheated on him before, and he found out, and there have been times I cheated on him and he didn't find out. This is no good. It's wrong in my eyes, and I really regret it.

We came to a compromise of having an open relationship. I could see other people, as long as they weren't mutual friends of ours, sex was safe, kept BF as my primary, and as long as he didn't have to know anything about my other relationships.

We started making a compromise like that a few years ago. But naturally I couldn't just hide my relationships with other people. He always finds out, even if I don't bring it up. I don't rub it in his face, but he finds out. For instance, I was dating another man this summer. My BF figured it out and was insanely jealous. I decided my BF's feelings were too important and ended the relationship. It had other problems anyway, so I'm glad it's over.

After summer, come September, BF moved away because of school. And we came to the same compromise we had before. We could see other people in a DADT sort of policy. Which, btw I hate!! I would rather be totally open about who I'm seeing and who he's seeing, but I have to compromise on this matter.

Just this week, a friend of mine made out with me, and wants to see me again. I texted my boyfriend and told him my intentions to see another person, and asked for permission to see another person. I really shouldn't have done that, because we agreed to DADT. But DADT just feels so wrong and messy to me. I don't tell my BF any intimate details and never have. I just feel like he should have the final say in whether I get to see people or not. That way he feels in control, and knows I'm there for him, knows he's the most important person in my life. Well, he knows I am pretty miserable about being totally monogamous, so he has granted me permission.

He was really pissed that I brought it up at all. He said he will never ever be cool with me seeing other people. Even with his permission, he thinks it's cheating.

Can you see why I am frustrated? I told him I'm gonna hold off on seeing this guy until we come to a conclusive compromise, which, unfortunately, can't be total monogamy for me, because I simply can't do that.

Does anyone else know how I feel? I am willing to compromise and sacrifice so much. But that's one thing. If I'm not poly, I think I'd just be a cheater, or a swinger, or permanently single. I try to let my BF know its not about him or how attractive he is or how rich he is or anything. He could be Johnny Depp and I'd still want to see other people!

I really don't know what to do. I told my BF we should come to a compromise that will make us both a little miserable, because it doesn't seem like we can come to a compromise that will make either of us happy! He thinks I am losing nothing with our current compromise and that he is the miserable one and that I am just totally happy about it.

Please, please advise! I don't know what to do. This is so frustrating.

I wish my BF would feel differently about the whole thing. He wishes the same thing about me.

Any feedback is welcome. If you have had similar experiences I would especially love to hear about it. Thanks. Hope to hear your thoughts soon.
 
I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. My bf's last relationship ended because his mono gf could not get her head around the concept of being poly. She terrorized me (as his new gf) and his secondary, and in the end he walked away from her.

Maybe you are fighting a losing battle. You both deserve to be happy, and if he is truly mono and can't bear to share you with anyone else, then you may need to go your separate ways.

I just see a whole lot of red flags, the first one you asking him to give his 'permission' for you to see other people. Are you truly happy to let him control that aspect of you? If it's going to make you both miserable, why bother? Can you really see either of you making the significant emotional and intellectual adjustments required to keep your relationship alive?
 
I just see a whole lot of red flags, the first one asking him for his 'permission' for you to see other people. Are you truly happy to let him control that aspect of you?
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Yes, actually. I asked specifically for his permission, in this instance.

If it's going to make you both miserable, why bother?
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The benefits of this relationship far outweigh the struggles, by far! That's why I want to try to work this out.

Can you really see either of you making the significant emotional and intellectual adjustments required to keep your relationship alive?
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Well, that is still up in the air. I want to try.
 
letgo said:
We have been going out for seven years and I intend to marry him when the financial situation is right. I want to be with him for life, and will do just about anything to make this relationship work.
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If your boyfriend is mono and can't embrace the idea of you with someone else, marraige is not something to go into lightly. His mono desire to be exclusive will likely be amplified by marriage. Marriage probably won't make him feel more secure in your relationship, but it will likely make him feel more entitled to you being exclusive with him. I'm not totally talking out of my ass. I'm monogamous. I am in love with a poly woman who is married, and it works beautifully. Trying to put myself in the position of being her husband is a different story. Just be careful with that.

letgo said:
I told my BF we should come to a compromise that will make us both a little miserable, because it doesn't seem like we can come to a compromise that will make either of us happy! He thinks I am losing nothing with our current compromise, and that he is the miserable one and that I am just totally happy about it.
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Why settle for good when you could both achieve great? I don't mean to sound defeatist, but why not find people who better suit your natures?

I hope you find both find happiness in this, but I also hope you don't rush into anything that will potentially make things worse.
 
Do you think he will change? Maybe it's worth seeing a couples counselor to sort it out, but I'd try to find one that is not predjudiced against polyamory.

It must be frustrating for you. You are trying to set up guidlines that you can both agree on. If you think he'll come around, it's worth continuing. If not, I would try to remain separate for a while, so that you can both think things through, before getting married.

What is it that you love about him? You don't have to answer, but really think about it. Also, what are the deal breakers in a relationship for you? Are you willing to give up being poly? Is he willing to give up being mono?

I hope that you both can be happy with whatever you decide.
 
To me, this man is not marriage material, as it stands right now. I think if I were in your position I would be looking for someone else to take a primary role in my life. This man could make a nice secondary if he was willing, but I would be thinking of marrying someone else, that is, if he doesn't do some major work with you.

Normally, I don't subscribe to primary/secondary, but time quantities and investment. I wouldn't be investing too much or looking for quantities of time with him, as he doesn't get poly, doesn't seem to want to, and isn't interested in looking at his jealousy or the pain he feels to find a positive way in it. We all feel jealousy at some points, at least most of us do, but looking at it and working through it makes one stronger and more apt at dealing with it. He doesn't sound interested or wants to avoid his feelings.

It's just not possible for the long haul, or for a married relationship, not to look at one's shit, poly or not. Stuff comes up and if it isn't dealt with in a timely fashion, then it ends relationships. You have the advantage of *knowing* a huge bit of shit before getting married; that is a gift. He is not accepting this gift of knowledge. To me, that's a tell-tale sign, if he is unwilling to work on it. Other issues will be no different. He likely won't want to deal with other shit, either.

Life is hard work, marriage is hard work, poly is hard work, work is hard work. We all need to get on it and push fear aside. The larger issue, to me, seems to be that he is not dealing with his fear. If I were you, I would be addressing it as such, and if he still doesn't deal, then I'd move on.

What are you asking him permission for? Does he own you? Is he the one that rules over you? I don't think so. You do. I understand that you want to be respectful, but you are creating disrespect from him about your nature. I think you should stand firm and tell him who you are dating AND let him know you love him. Stay firm with what you need, do what you say you will do, give him the same kind of information each time and stick with your expression of love.

You cheated. He doesn't trust you. And why should he? Stay confident and consistent and that will change in time, I think, or it will be evident that it just won't work between you and him. All this is said with much love and care.

DADT is a cop-out, a way of avoiding real issues a lot of the time, imo. It's an *open* way of doing things, but I haven't known it to work for the long haul in terms of deepening and strengthening relationships. Relationships naturally want to become deeper and more connected. It's part of human nature to do so, or they end.

He seems to be good at avoiding or not dealing with your polyness, so challenge him on it, or you will never, in my opinion, have a deeper or more connected relationship. And really, isn't that what you would want for a marriage?

Make him face stuff and see what he's made of. The time is now, no? After all, you plan to marry him. If he is the man for you, would he not rise to the occasion and give your relationship everything he's got, rather than avoid?
 
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