Feeling excluded in poly relationship

Thank you for clarifying.

We discussed early on what we were looking for in a relationship. He is not unreasonable in his expectations of me and his method of "domming" me suits me quite well.
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No, not everyone in kink bothers to check in lots or deep. It's one of those YKINMK things. But you have checked in enough for YOU and explained your kink range and what you want. I wasn't sure what style of kink you are trying to practice and if the communication problem was in that area. Like you want one thing and he's doing another thing and you maybe thought the sub cannot say anything about it.

Is this a 24/7 thing?

I struggle with my feelings of being left out and less than. I really am grateful to have two wonderful people like them in my life and maybe that is why it is so difficult for me. The LDR aspect gives me insecurities.
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Then this is more an LDR related communication problem?

Or a communication problem in the sense that how he talks to you take away from you feeling secure rather than adds to it? Something else? :confused:

I did take some of your advice and had a vague conversation with him about it (vague because of how I approached it). And I do feel somewhat better as a result.
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That's good then. Speaking up for yourself helped you feel more secure. Could do more of this and become more confident/less vague doing it.

Galagirl
 
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As I further consider the problem at hand it does fall outside of the D/s relationship. Within this relationship I am free to talk about my feelings and concerns in a respectful manner (as it should be in any relationship). My fear of talking to him lies in the LDR. I do not wish to offend either him or the primary. I worry that if I tell him that it hurts to be reminded constantly that I am not the primary (which is not a position I seek to take over because they love each other) he will be upset with me and think that I am trying to usurp that position.

So thinking in polyamory terms, how do non-primary relationships deal with reminders of being secondary? This is a question I struggle with, although less now that I had an opportunity to discuss it somewhat.
 
So thinking in polyamory terms, how do non-primary relationships deal with reminders of being secondary?
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Ask not to be reminded. Why is the reminder even needed that you hold secondary position in this model? You are not a kid who has to be told to hang up the towel after taking a shower over and over.

Note the difference. You are not BEING secondary, less than, not enough, etc as a person. It's just a description word in the primary-secondary model you guys practice.

I do not wish to offend either him or the primary.
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It doesn't sound like a problem here. If you talk to them like you write -- you sound polite enough.

I worry that if I tell him that it hurts to be reminded constantly that I am not the primary (which is not a position I seek to take over because they love each other) he will be upset with me and think that I am trying to usurp that position.
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I don't see why he would get upset if you tell him you know you are secondary and don't need reminding. What is upsetting about saying

"Hon, could you you be willing to do me a favor? Reminders have outgrown their usefulness for me. I already know I hold secondary position here. So could you be willing to stop reminding me that I am the secondary?"

It's a simple "yes/no" answer. Where's the big deal in that to get upset over? :confused:

Within this relationship I am free to talk about my feelings and concerns in a respectful manner
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Is that not actually true? Does he talk like it is, but when it comes time to actually talk to him about your stuff he has a cow at you instead? Is that why it sounds like you walk on eggshells hesitant to bring things up?

Or is it true and his behavior kind and respectful when you bring things up? And it is more about learning to manage your inner anxiety voice?

Galagirl
 
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GalaGirl said:
Is that not actually true? Does he talk like it is, but when it comes time to actually talk to him about your stuff he has a cow at you instead?

Is that why it sounds like you walk on eggshells hesitant to bring things up?

Galagirl
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Not at all. He has never flown off the handle. He is always very calm and collected in all things, even difficult conversations. I have no fear of abuse by him as he is always in control of how he reacts. It is one of the things I find very attractive about him and why I trust him. I do not walk on eggshells with him. I suppose it is less about him and more about my own fears of not approaching the subject well. I do appreciate your suggestions of how to bring it up.
 
Sorry... we are/were cross posting.

It sounds like you have successfully sorted it out from all the writing where the glitch is. It's managing your internal anxiety/worry stuff.

When that stuff bubbles up,could perhaps remind yourself of his past behavior:

He has never flown off the handle. He is always very calm and collected in all things, even difficult conversations. I have no fear of abuse by him as he is always in control of how he reacts. It is one of the things I find very attractive about him and why I trust him. I do not walk on eggshells with him.
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See if that helps soothe you.

Hang in there with it!

Galagirl
 
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Re (from polypet):
"As a whole, I am very happy and just struggle with my feelings of being left out and less than."
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So, are you looking for advice on how to not feel left out and less than, but you don't want your Dom to change anything he does? Perhaps you need more self-confidence and less insecurity?

Here's an article that may help: How to become a secure person

I hope that helps.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Heh, I didn't think to mention that. It's an excellent link.
 
Thank you all for your replies to this thread. I appreciate the effort you put into thoughtful consideration of the concerns of others. I have spent some time reading up on the problems faced by secondary partners and realize that I am not alone in my feelings. One thing I have learned is that, as a secondary, it is easy for the primary couple to accidently put a secondary into an expendable box out of fear that the primary relationship might suffer.

Soon I will be visiting my couple after being long distance for a long time and I find myself feeling anxious that it will be a rude awakening. although I don't doubt that they care for me, I know they see the triad as them vs me. They have established rules and guidelines as to how they conduct their relationship and I was not privy to these conversations (another example of how they treat a secondary).

None of us are openly poly, which also creates another painful issue. I know that I am a "friend" in public and I fear I will feel like a third wheel as opposed to a valued member of the relationship. I am not one for public displays of affection, however, I fear it will hurt my feelings or make me feel left out having to witness their affection for each other while I stand on the sidelines. This was feeling of being a third wheel is something that I had the last time the three of us were together as well.

I am trying to work on these emotions before I see them.
 
kdt26417 said:
Don't forget the Secondary's Bill of Rights. You do have rights, in spite of being a secondary!
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Thank you, I did read that as well. I am just trying to figure out my place in a poly relationship. I am starting to see that part of my job is to figure what I feel is fair in the relationship. Sort out to insignificant from the major issues. Besides the distance there is nothing so major that I am willing to lose the relationship over. I just need to be my own advocate while still respecting their needs and being fair to them.
 
That sounds reasonable.
 
Update

I traveled to visit my couple and I have been here a week, I am scheduled to stay for 3 weeks. This first week has been an emotional rollercoaster. I have; however, gained clarity on the relationship and what is expected of me. To simplify we will call him Ethan and her June.

I want to begin with saying how Ethan has been trying to juggle a difficult situation because he always pictures a triad between him, June and whichever girl they are with at the time. I do not believe at any point in their relationship has June had to spend as much time with Ethan's other partners as much as she does with me because after a few days they are gone. In those circumstances it is easy to play along and participate in a threesome. However, at this point I question her honesty to him about how she feels in these relationships.

I have seen some very blatant displays of jealousy and I do not know how to work around them. For example, from the beginning of my visit when Ethan would become sexual with me in the threesome situation she would get upset often leaving the room. The other night we were all laying in bed together, both of us gently touching Ethan as we fell asleep. In my doziness my hand drifted close to hers where she was touching him and she aggressively shoved my hand away.

Because of couples privilege I am now sleeping alone. Ethan refuses to admit that she hates me being there and claims that it is too warm for all of us in the bed and that is why I am now shunned to the guest room. However, I know that she does not want me in her bed with her boyfriend. He will stay with me long enough to have some wonderful sex and a short cuddle, but then he goes back to his room where they sleep together and I am alone.... again.

I can't imagine that I did anything to June, she has known for years about my relationship with Ethan and I never expected this behavior from her. He was poly when they met and her has never lied about that to her or anyone else. Now that I am in their home and there is no long distance between us I see the relationship dynamic more clearly. I can't help but think she does not like his being poly and she is tolerating it because she does not want to lose him. I have now heard her talk about the other girls in his life and she as not said a single positive thing about them, and I am sure I am no exception when I am not around.

All this new drama has made this visit very difficult. On one hand I am feeling a lot better about all the concerns I had posted about before because they seem like such small issues compared to this one. On the other hand I am trying to sort out all of my gains and losses in the past week. I have never loved Ethan more, he is beautiful, smart, funny, gentle and charming. I care about him more than anything else in the world. I have lost June, she lost interest in the relationship once the distance gap was closed.

I can live with the change in the relationship from bein a triad to becoming a V. What truly bothers me is how torn Ethan must be feeling. He is stuck trying to preserve everyone's feelings and that can't be done.

Sorry this post is so long and all over the place.
 
polypet said:
I traveled to visit my couple and I have been here a week, I am scheduled to stay for 3 weeks. This first week has been an emotional rollercoaster. I have; however, gained clarity on the relationship and what is expected of me. To simplify we will call him Ethan and her June.

I want to begin with saying how Ethan has been trying to juggle a difficult situation because he always pictures a triad between him, June and whichever girl they are with at the time. I do not believe at any point in their relationship has June had to spend as much time with Ethan's other partners as much as she does with me because after a few days they are gone. In those circumstances it is easy to play along and participate in a threesome. However, at this point I question her honesty to him about how she feels in these relationships.

I have seen some very blatant displays of jealousy and I do not know how to work around them. For example, from the beginning of my visit when Ethan would become sexual with me in the threesome situation she would get upset often leaving the room. The other night we were all laying in bed together, both of us gently touching Ethan as we fell asleep. In my doziness my hand drifted close to hers where she was touching him and she aggressively shoved my hand away.

Because of couples privilege I am now sleeping alone. Ethan refuses to admit that she hates me being there and claims that it is too warm for all of us in the bed and that is why I am now shunned to the guest room. However, I know that she does not want me in her bed with her boyfriend. He will stay with me long enough to have some wonderful sex and a short cuddle, but then he goes back to his room where they sleep together and I am alone.... again.

I can't imagine that I did anything to June, she has known for years about my relationship with Ethan and I never expected this behavior from her. He was poly when they met and her has never lied about that to her or anyone else. Now that I am in their home and there is no long distance between us I see the relationship dynamic more clearly. I can't help but think she does not like his being poly and she is tolerating it because she does not want to lose him. I have now heard her talk about the other girls in his life and she as not said a single positive thing about them, and I am sure I am no exception when I am not around.

All this new drama has made this visit very difficult. On one hand I am feeling a lot better about all the concerns I had posted about before because they seem like such small issues compared to this one. On the other hand I am trying to sort out all of my gains and losses in the past week. I have never loved Ethan more, he is beautiful, smart, funny, gentle and charming. I care about him more than anything else in the world. I have lost June, she lost interest in the relationship once the distance gap was closed.

I can live with the change in the relationship from bein a triad to becoming a V. What truly bothers me is how torn Ethan must be feeling. He is stuck trying to preserve everyone's feelings and that can't be done.

Sorry this post is so long and all over the place.
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What you do is call their bluff. You say "yes, it is too hot for us all to sleep together, so instead, you sleep with me, Ethan. I do not get to see you as much as June, so for the duration of my stay, we should sleep together since she sleeps with you every other night we are apart? Okay?" So you make them say that is about couple privilege and that you will always be treated this way, then they can have no hostility when you point out that you're not up for this and walk away.
 
I honestly would just leave and Break up with him, he isn't treating you like someone he loves a and she isn't even treating you like a friend.
 
Yes, it does sound like June wants to be number 1, and wishes Ethan wasn't even poly! Maybe it was her doing that caused him to be throwing your secondary status in your face so often. She is making it very difficult for you and him to enjoy each other on your visit. That's not a terrible thing. He may be wrong for her, if he, as her Dom, wants his other subs to come to their place and canoodle right in front of her. She may hate sharing her home.

Sounds like you should keep sex and affection with Ethan to the two of you. No more sex or kink involving June. She's not enjoying it, and it's worse when it's in her face.

I agree you shouldn't be sharing a bed, and something different could be negotiated. Some secondary subs enjoy sleeping on the floor on the Dom's side of the bed. Some sleep in a cage. Some don't mind sleeping at least part of the night alone in another bedroom. Some want their Dom to sleep with them, especially on a long awaited visit. But some primaries balk at letting their partner sleep with the secondary in their own home. Could he come visit you instead of you going to their place?

We often see partnered couples who think they can do a triad, but it turns into a V because of jealousy or just lack of affection or attraction between 2 of the partners.

I get the feeling Ethan is on a power trip and forcing June to agree to things that hurt her feelings a lot. You are sensing this. There is a mess between the two of them. You're forced to be the scapegoat and to get less than you deserve since June isn't really onboard with Ethan being poly, or doing poly the way he is.
 
Magdlyn said:
Yes, it does sound like June wants to be number 1, and wishes Ethan wasn't even poly! Maybe it was her doing that caused him to be throwing your secondary status in your face so often. She is making it very difficult for you and him to enjoy each other on your visit. That's not a terrible thing. He may be wrong for her, if he, as her Dom, wants his other subs to come to their place and canoodle right in front of her. She may hate sharing her home.
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June is number one and he shows her that in everyway. He is very romantic and gentle and kind to her. I don't think he forces any of this on her at all, I think this is a matter of June not being honest. He makes it clear to women that he is poly and if they do not like it they do not have to be with him. He makes sure this is clear before emotions are ever involved. I think June pretends to be okay with it because she originally agreed to it hoping he would decide that she is enough for him and dump the rest of us.


Magdlyn said:
Sounds like you should keep sex and affection with Ethan to the two of you. No more sex or kink involving June. She's not enjoying it, and it's worse when it's in her face.
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I agree and I suppose I can say so does Ethan as we do not involve June in our sex life and they do not involve me in theirs.

MightyMax, I wish I could explain to Ethan that I would like to have him sleep in my bed a few times while I am here, however, I know the answer to that before I even ask, and honestly, I don't think I can handle more rejection at this point.

Inyourendo, Ethan cares about me but he does not love me, June is the only one with that privilege. I do agree though, June is not treating me like a friend and it is sad because I do like her. If it weren't for this drama I think June and I could be great friends as we are actually very similar people.
 
Why are you allowing yourself to be treated as a sex toy?
 
I would definitely be putting my foot down at this point. June is clearly not enjoying herself, so I would be telling Ethan that I don't want to play with June anymore. He would have to make a decision whether he wanted to keep playing with me solo, or not. If he wasn't able to commit, I'd wash my hands of the situation.

Putting your foot down would be hard and would possibly expose you to rejection, but are you sure you want to keep going like you're going? Because this situation does not seem healthy and it seems to be really negatively impacting your enjoyment. It's looking a lot like a sunk cost situation. You're throwing more energy at a thing that is not necessarily a good thing. It might be best to know whether to keep doing that. But that's just my opinion!
 
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