Feeling Hidden...

ChyTea

New member
Hi all,
I currently started dating my HS sweetheart and the love of my life again who is married and has been married for about 7years now and has a daughter. She is Poly and her wife and I are not so this is a very new situation for all of us being that I’m the first one she’s ever brought into the picture relationship wise. Her wife is aware that I’m in the picture and is accepting about it even though there have been a lot of ups & downs. However, I’m currently struggling with the feeling of being hidden....My partners wife’s friends and family doesn’t know that she is poly and so she’s afraid of what they might think and won’t be so accepting and so b/c of that she doesn’t want her posting anything about me. Although, my partners close friends and family have recently found out about me and is accepting about it, I still feel as if I’m hidden to the world. I’m constantly seeing them post pictures and mentioning each other on social media of shared moments together and feeling left out. I’m not able to hang out or be around any of my partners friends/family who know her wife b/c it makes her wife uncomfortable. Anytime my partner and I spend time together it’s always alone with each other or my close friends and family. I’ve brought this issue up with my partner but she says that I’m thinking way into it and that social media isn’t a big deal and that I shouldn’t care or make such a big deal about it. She says that I am not hidden and that she just wants to respect her wife’s feelings and wishes b/c of her family. Am I overthinking it? Are my feelings valid? Or am I being selfish? Is anyone else dealing with this and how should I go about resolving this issue? :confused:
 
Hi all,
I’m currently struggling with the feeling of being hidden ... Am I overthinking it? Are my feelings valid? Or am I being selfish?

Your feelings aren't something you can overthink. They are a natural part of who you are. So if you're feeling hidden or left out because of the situations you describe, it seems perfectly legitimate to me, and for the people who are supposed to care about you to brush it off, is in my opinion disrespectful, and that conflicts with at least one of the fundamental principles of healthy relationships ( honesty, appreciation, respect, and communication ).

Additionally, not being able to be open about your relationship might leave a person feeling that it's not totally honest. There is a also an imbalance of power in a situation where there are married and unmarried participants.

On the flip-side, not everyone has to know everything about your relationship either, and respect goes both ways. Deciding what should and shouldn't be shared is up to everyone involved. Maybe they don't include you in their social media for their own reasons, that perhaps you need to respect. Should that prevent you from posting freely about you all on your own social media? I don't know. But if you all can work within the four guiding principles, you'll navigate your way through it, and no matter how it works out, it will be the right outcome, even if it's totally different than you all might have hoped.
 
....she says that I’m thinking way into it and that social media isn’t a big deal and that I shouldn’t care or make such a big deal about it. She says that I am not hidden ....

Don't evaluate all of this according to someone else's checklist, go according to your own. If you feel hidden, then you are hidden as far as you're concerned. Doesn't matter if anyone else thinks it's silly or selfish or incorrect. The way toward peace never comes from trying to figure out how to minimize your own feelings ("am I overthinking it?") but instead via knowing your own values and standing by them. How much visibility is important for you? If you want to be out on Facebook, then you want to be out on Facebook - end of story. What is important to you?

The bind that a lot of "secondaries" get themselves into is minimizing their own values and putting that on their partners - taking lesser-than stances in order to accommodate others. Being the lover of a married partner is not inherently power-less, as was suggested above, but many people assume a powerless position when they struggle to be what the other partners tell them to be. To be powerful , you need to figure out what is of paramount importance to you and then stand by yourself, come what may. Declare your boundaries, proudly be who you are.

How important is social visibility to you?
 
So... here's what I get from that. I might be wrong. You correct me, ok?

You have a partner. They are married to their wife.

Your friends/family know you and partner are dating and poly. Not hidden.

Partner's friends/family know they are poly and dating you. Not hidden.

Wife/Meta's friends/family don't know they are poly. She doesn't think they would accept her/her life. She prefers to be in the closet. She does not want to be outted via partner's social media and asked partner to not do that. Partner agreed.

Wife/Meta posts stuff about wife/meta + partner on her social media.

I assume you post stuff about you + partner on yours. Because you aren't social media friends with meta's people.

You feel left out when Partner posts pix of Partner + wife/meta on Partner's social media but nothing about you. So... could some of this be solved by Partner having a separate social media account? That does NOT have wife/meta's friends and family viewing it? So they can post stuff about you there and stuff about wife/meta on the other one?

my partners close friends and family have recently found out about me and is accepting about it

I’m not able to hang out or be around any of my partners friends/family who know her wife b/c it makes her wife uncomfortable.

They sound pretty accepting. So why is partner not inviting you to hang out with the ones who accept and aren't gonna out wife/meta to her family and friends? What's wife/meta afraid will happen?

What is it that you would you like partner to do? That would make you happy while still respecting the fact that their other partner is in the closet and not ready to deal with that?

What if they are NEVER ready to deal with that? Would it change how you feel about dating this partner?

Galagirl
 
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Hello ChyTea,

It sounds like your partner's wife is exercising power and control over what you and your partner can and can't do. I find it especially telling that she won't let you be around some of your partner's family and friends even though some of them know about you and are accepting. This suggests that it's not about wife's friends and family finding out ... it's about *anyone* finding out. She just doesn't want you to be visible.

Your partner's wife is the source of the problem, and your partner is enabling it by minimizing how you feel. She should instead tell her wife that she (your partner) is going to include you in get-togethers with her (your partner's) family and friends. If she was really going to be fair, she (your partner) would include you on social media as well. But one miracle at a time, right?

Tell your partner that she (your partner -- but really her wife too) is treating you disrespectfully, and that you won't stand for it. Her wife's whims don't get to control everything, you have as much right to be visible and recognized, as does the wife. You may even want to consider confronting the wife about this, tell her that she (the wife) is erasing you from her (the wife's -- but really your partner's too) life, and you don't appreciate it.

If *you* are hiding your own poly status on your own part of the social media, you may want to ask yourself, are you contributing to the problem? Maybe it's time to to make yourself visible in this poly relationship, to as many people as you know. You could inform your partner that this is what you are going to do, and that she could tell her wife that, and do whatever else she needs to do to prepare. But stand up for yourself ... for your right to be seen and acknowledged. You matter.

Esteem and regards,
Kevin T.
 
Since we ask in our Guidelines for nicknames for partners, spouses and metamours, I am going to edit GG's post to make it less confusing.

You have a partner, Apple. They are married to their wife, Berry.

Your friends/family know you and Apple are dating and poly. You are not hidden from them.

Apple's friends/family know they are poly and dating you. You are not hidden from them either.

Berry's friends and family don't know that Berry and Apple are poly. Berry doesn't think her friends would accept herself, Berry, or her poly-accepting life, if they knew. Berry prefers to be in the closet. She does not want to be outed via Apple's social media. She asked Apple to not do that, who agreed.

Berry posts stuff about herself and Apple on her social media.

I assume you post stuff about you and Apple on yours, because you aren't social media friends with Berry's people.

You feel left out when Apple posts pix of Apple and Berry on (her/their) own social media, but nothing about you. So, could some of this be solved by Apple having a separate social media account, that does NOT have Berry's friends and family viewing it? Apple could post stuff about you there, and stuff about Berry on the other one.

They sound pretty accepting. So why is Apple not inviting you to hang out with (her/their) friends who accept polyamory and you, and won't "out" Berry to her family and friends? What is Apple afraid will happen?

What is it that you would you like Apple to do, that would make you happy, while still respecting the fact that Berry is in the closet and not ready to deal with that? What if Berry is NEVER ready to deal with that? Would it change how you feel about dating Apple?

I hope that helps clarify GG's good advice. You can choose other nicknames if you wish, of course.
 
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Since we ask in our Guidelines for nicknames for partners, spouses and metamours, I am going to edit GG's post to make it less confusing...
I hope that helps clarify GG's good advice.

Thanks for this, Mags! Reading GG's reply my eyes glazed over a bit (not cos of GG's advice, just the lack of nicknames for everyone!) and I thought once again: "This is why we have the guideline!"

You're such a hero for fixing this up across multiple new posts. Your community service is appreciated :)
 
You are being hidden.

Your feelings are valid. It is completely valid to be hurt by this.

It is completely valid to conclude from this that you are being treated like a second-class relationship--someone she wants in her life, wants whatever she's getting from you feelings or sex-wise, but doesn't want you upsetting her Apple cart.

You are not over-thinking it.

In normal relationships, the loved one is shown to the world, on social media, etc. When someone expects you to give your time, maybe your money, share your body, etc, but be okay with being a deep dark secret, this is not a normal and fully loving relationship. I don't care what the reasons are.

You have a choice. Continue to be the dirty secret, understanding her spouse's feelings and values and life are more important than yours, or end it and find someone who isn't going to keep you hidden at the back of the closet.
 
You are being hidden.


You have a choice. Continue to be the dirty secret, understanding her spouse's feelings and values and life are more important than yours, or end it and find someone who isn't going to keep you hidden at the back of the closet.

You listed 2 choices. Stay a secret, or break up.

GG listed several more options.

It's not put up or shut up.
 
Thanks for this, Mags! Reading GG's reply my eyes glazed over a bit (not cos of GG's advice, just the lack of nicknames for everyone!) and I thought once again: "This is why we have the guideline!"

You're such a hero for fixing this up across multiple new posts. Your community service is appreciated :)

Thanks for doing that, Mags! :)

GG

You're welcome. I wish I wasn't the only nickname police officer though!

GG used to do it, but got tired of it, I guess. I hereby ask for more volunteers.
 
Reply to everyone

Thank you everyone for your feedback and advice. I would like to correct that my partners wife isn’t accepting of our relationship but she’s in the process of working to get to that point of acceptance. It has been a struggle working through this with my partner because my partners wife isn’t at the point where she’s ready to sit down and talk with me so any type of communication has been through my partner. I would also like to put out that I do not post anything retaining my Relationship with my partner on social media out of respect for my partners wife. My partners wife and I are not friends on social media but do to her fear of people finding out she does not feel comfortable about it so I refrain from posting anything that will cause issues with my partner and I. I am going to revisit this issue with my partner and discuss my feelings about it to see what possible solutions can be established but at this time I think I’m going to wait on it. A lot has been going on with this being a new dynamic for all of us and I just want to make sure not to push my partner away. I know she loves me dearly but I also know that being stuck in the middle of both her partners has left her frustrated and feeling stuck. I have been willing to sit down and talk to my partners wife to make her feel more comfortable about all this but so far, nothing. However, my partners wife has asked that we be patient with her as she works her way through the confusion and feelings and that once she’s ready she will talk with me.. :/ It just seems like my relationship with my partner is in the hands of her wife and it’s extremely frustrating.
 
You get to decide what works for you. I wouldn't be okay having to hide one of my relationships. Some people have no issues with it.

Whatever you feel is valid for you.
 
Thank you for more info.

I'm going to give these people generic names. You change it if you want. I'll go with what you pick.

  1. Apple -- your partner
  2. Banana -- their wife

I could be wrong, but it sounds like you have overlapping things:

1) Banana doesn't want to be outted on social media.

2) Does Banana really wants to be doing open marraige/poly stuff?

3) You want to get to know Apple among their friends and family who are accepting of the poly thing.

  • Apple also kinda blows off your concerns when you bring it up.
  • Apple seems to pass the buck and blame it on Banana's social media discomfort rather than owning it as Apple's own discomfort.

4) You are getting tired of this behavior from Apple.

Is that about right? :confused:

I would like to correct that my partners wife isn’t accepting of our relationship but she’s in the process of working to get to that point of acceptance.

Is there a reason they did not do this couple work before Apple starting dating you? :confused:

I would also like to put out that I do not post anything retaining my Relationship with my partner on social media out of respect for my partners wife. My partners wife and I are not friends on social media but do to her fear of people finding out she does not feel comfortable about it so I refrain from posting anything that will cause issues with my partner and I.

Fair enough. You decided to accommodate Banana this way for the time being. That one sounds solved enough for now then. You don't post things on social media about (you + Apple) and Banana doesn't fuss at you and Apple about it because there's nothing to fuss over.

It has been a struggle working through this with my partner (because my partners wife isn’t at the point where she’s ready to sit down and talk with me so any type of communication has been through my partner. )

I grey out the wife stuff. Sounds like you feel left out. You want to hang out with Apple's friends/family who know about you and have some shared moments with them too. Not always hanging out alone or with your family and friends.

Although Apple's friends and family seem accepting of you, Apple is not willing to invite you at this time. Has Apple explained WHY?

What's wrong with you and Apple getting some tacos with Apple's friend X?
  • Apple gets low key -- just one other person. And not the whole fam at once in overwhelming mode.
  • You get meeting one of Apple's people.
  • Banana get's reassurance nothing is going on social media about it.

Like ease into it.

Anytime my partner and I spend time together it’s always alone with each other or my close friends and family. I’ve brought this issue up with my partner but she says that I’m thinking way into it and that social media isn’t a big deal and that I shouldn’t care or make such a big deal about it.

Why is your partner minimizing your concern when you bring it up? :confused:

Or deflecting and making it be about (Banana's social media fear) rather than staying on the actual topic of (why won't Apple bring you around their family/friends?)

It sounds like you just want to spend time with partner and their people. Like any other dating people would. You spending some time with some of their accepting friends/family is horrible to Apple because... why? :confused:

If Apple is doing "I can't do that, Banana won't let me" stuff? When really it is something APPLE struggles with but doesn't want to own?

I've seen that sort of thing end up with someone mad at the meta/spouse when really the problem is the partner. It's the hinge not OWNING their choices.

Is any of that going on here? Like you blame Banana, but the problem is actually with Apple not taking responsibility for their own choices and then passing the buck?

I get making some accommodations for someone who is not ready to be out yet. But I really don't see how (Banana being afraid of being outted on social media) has anything to do with (you getting some quiet tacos with Apple and their buddy.)

If APPLE is uncomfortable bringing you around their people at this time? Apple could own it and say it straight rather than piling on this extra Banana stuff on. Then work through their discomfort. It's a new thing after all.

But don't blame the wife or minimize or wave away your concerns. That's not Apple being kind to either of you.

Its ok for you to say "Apple, I don't like it when you do ___ behavior. Could you please be willing to do ___ instead?"

It's part of learning how to be together and get along.

If that's all it takes to "push them away?" Then you accept Apple's kind of a flimsy partner. Better to know sooner rather than later, I guess.

A lot has been going on with this being a new dynamic for all of us and I just want to make sure not to push my partner away. I know she loves me dearly but I also know that being stuck in the middle of both her partners has left her frustrated and feeling stuck.

It does not push your partner away to state

  • how you want to be treated and the things you'd like to do
  • what you will put up with
  • what you will NOT put up with
  • what temporary accommodations you are willing to do for others
  • what temporary accommodations you would like for you

This is all part of getting to know each other and part of dating. Things will either line up or not as you discover how compatible you actually are.

If it turns out Apple and Banana are not prepared to do poly, are too enmeshed,have couple problems, etc? Well, I guess you discover that too.

I have been willing to sit down and talk to my partners wife to make her feel more comfortable about all this but so far, nothing.

Well, you stated your willingness to talk to wife. That's all you can do for now.

However, my partners wife has asked that we be patient with her as she works her way through the confusion and feelings and that once she’s ready she will talk with me.. :/

What is she doing? Seeing a counselor? Doing a workbook? Doing some reflection?

Is there a time check? Like "I'm working on my stuff. If I don't get back to you with a progress update in 30 days, you can check in" or is this non-dated limbo for you? Like foot dragging?

You mentioned a small child. Is Apple the breadwinner and Banana a stay at home parent? Because if Banana doesn't really want to do poly but Apple has her over a financial barrel so she's just going along with it but not really wanting to... that adds other complications.

It just seems like my relationship with my partner is in the hands of her wife and it’s extremely frustrating.

It's actually in YOUR hands.

If they didn't do the necessary work before opening up the marriage and are putting cart before horse? Aren't doing the catch up work? And it's becoming a drag for you because APPLE is too enmeshed in Banana stuff and did not do their work of detangling?

You decide if you are up for being along for that ride or if you want to get off the Apple bus. Because the dating offer Apple is offering you isn't so hot after all.

You could decide that initial love/attraction for Apple is not enough to make up for Apple's underpreparedness and whatever marriage weird that have going on with Banana.

You could say "Look, it seems like this was jumping the gun. You guys need to sort out your marriage stuff and whether or not you really want to do Open marriage first. Apple, I am interested in dating you, so look me up when you have it better sorted. But I don't want to be collateral damage just because you went in blind. "

You don't have to put yourself into a tight fitting box just because Apple didn't sort out their baggage first. YKWIM?

Or if you don't want to end it but need some more space away from their issues? Could change to a separate V for now, and stop trying to do kitchen table poly. Be respectful toward Banana, but firm about expecting same respect back.

  • Expect them deal with their V side problems over THERE on that side of the V.
  • And don't allow Apple to be leaking it over on THIS side of the V.

Be leery of "pass the buck" stuff -- like if Apple is going "well my wife doesn't want this or that..." when really it's about APPLE being willing/able. Esp when Apple is the only one talking and you don't get to talk to wife direct right now.

I've noticed sometimes newbie hinges try to keep everything afloat and make everyone else happy by doing that. Telling one partner one thing and another partner something else, so nobody is mad at THEM, the hinge.

When really? Some turbulence in a new undertaking is to be expected, and HOW one deals with it is what matters. Straight up or all wonky.

Galagirl
 
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To be honest: while being hidden feels shitty, imho if you push the social media thing too soon, then yes, you are being selfish.

Just compare how much is potentially on the line.

For you: Not being able to post about you and your partner on social media. Not being able to be intimate with Apple in front of Banana's friends. Feeling limited in expressing your joy of the new relationship.

For her: Having to face people "supporting" her by amplifying her doubts and insecurities. Having to talk back to friends and family who badmouth you and Apple for "hurting her". Potentially losing long-standing relationships with friends or family due to superficial judgment. All that while she isn't sure yet how poly will be working out for her.

Which one sounds more like hell?

If she has unaccepting friends and still wants to live poly, she'll have to face that impasse sooner or later. But I argue strongly for patience.

Another thing is, maybe there are things that can be reasonably done without outing her. Posting on your social media with a careful privacy setting, ie just for a handful of friends. Attending social events with Apple's and Banana's common friends, and acting as a good friend, not partner. Etc. You need room to breathe.

Give her a few months with this careful setting, if you're able to. Of course, you'll insist to be out on social events eventually. But it will go much smoother for everyone if you allow her to sort her messy emotions before she has to do it. And please try not to out her to her family.
 
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Hey, ChyTea, didn't you notice our big discussion about choosing nicknames for your partner and metamour? Please do comply with our Guidelines. It makes your posts and our responses much less confusing.

Also, your partner and meta deserve their own names. It's more respectful. Right now they just exist as how they are related to you, and not people on their own.

Thank you everyone for your feedback and advice. I would like to correct that Berry isn’t accepting of our relationship, but she’s in the process of working to get to that point of acceptance. It has been a struggle working through this with Apple because Berry isn’t at the point where she’s ready to sit down and talk with me, so any type of communication has been through Apple.

I would also like to point out that I do not post anything regarding my relationship with Apple on social media out of respect for Berry. Berry and I are not friends on social media, but due to her fear of people finding out, she does not feel comfortable about it. So I refrain from posting anything that will cause issues between Apple and me.

I am going to revisit this issue with Apple, and discuss my feelings about it, to see what possible solutions can be established. But at this time, I think I’m going to wait on it. A lot has been going on, with this being a new dynamic for all of us, and I just want to make sure not to push Apple away.

I know she loves me dearly, but I also know that being stuck in the middle of both her partners has left her frustrated and feeling stuck. I have been willing to sit down and talk to Berry, to make her feel more comfortable about all this, but so far, nothing. However, Berry has asked that we be patient with her as she works her way through the confusion and feelings, and that once she’s ready she will talk with me. It just seems like my relationship with Apple is in the hands of Berry, and it’s extremely frustrating.

I don't know why GalaGirl chose Banana for the partner's wife, after I had already chosen Berry!
 
To me, it sounds like the three of you need to talk.

I agree with what people are saying about the power dynamic: that your meta is trying to control the visibility of your relationship with your partner - something that belongs to you and not your meta directly. Secondary relationships can really suck when you're expected to comply with rules that you had no part in setting.

It's very important for you to feel empowered and not lesser-than in your relationship.

Your feelings about being visible and "out" are important too, don't let that be minimized.

But I think - and this is just my opinion - that you should communicate with your partner and arrange for the 3 of you to talk about it. Your feelings need to be considered but so do everyone else's. Why doesn't your meta want to be out? what are they worried about?

If they're worried about losing their couple privilege and about what people will think in general, it's probably good for them to hear from you how protecting their own worries is disempowering and hurtful to you.

If it has to do with concerns about the children, jobs, and neighbors that's a whole other layer of complexity. There are no laws to prevent people from discriminating against polyamorous people and I'd imagine there are some real concerns about that, especially when there's marriage and kids involved. So if that's what your meta is concerned about, you might all want to look into wether or not those concerns are warranted in the community that you live in.

Generally I'd say that what you post on your social media about you and your partner, only concerns the 2 of you (not your meta). Though, in our culture people tend to care whole a lot more about what people do when they're raising kids and some people make it their business to impose their own views on others (forcefully). and because of that I think it might border on recklessness to "out" your partner and meta on social media without consulting them about the reason they're closeted when it comes to certain groups of people.

However it goes, I wish you the best
 
Social Media

I think that social media has a way of exerting too much influence in how people conduct their relationships. That being said - if Apple thinks that you are making a "big deal" out of social media, then my answer would be to take social media off the table entirely, for everyone.

There is no law that says that everyone has to live their lives in full view of friends, family, and random internet acquaintances. People take "breaks" from social media all of the time - it doesn't need to be dramatic. You post a general statement: "In order to take the time to focus on other areas of my life (family, career, hobbies), I have decided to take a break from social media and will not be participating here for the near future. Best wishes to you all!" And then turn off FB notifications and ignore that it exists. People who are important to you IRL have other means of contacting you in case of emergency and you are by no means obligated to answer questions about your decision. You can let them know that you are OK and that, for your own reasons, you have decided to take a step back.
 
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