Figuring all this out

I knew you'd probably say something like that, and I know you're right, but it feels like I'm putting a noose around my own neck. The thought of them being physical still hurts. Actually helping that to happen is a lot to ask!

Then there's the issue of what I'm left with if she is mostly playing with him. Who gets to mop up the pieces? He's such a sensitive wee flower. I don't want to see him hurt. Right now, our relationship is amazing, and I'm loathe to mess with that.

Thoughtfully,
Sage
 
sage said:
Don't you find that really sad? Even Z (who is the one who wants the secondary relationship) is very wary of me talking about any of this. I find it really interesting that being honest about ourselves can be such an issue.
Click to expand...

I don't find it sad. I know where she is coming from. In a different life, my past, I wouldn't have wanted my ex-wife hanging out with a poly woman or guy. I know the the social background that his wife is from. It represents the bulk of our society and I lived there for 36 years. I get his concern and therefore it has no affect on me personally, but it did limit the depth of relationship we could build as friends. I was happy with what we had.
 
MG, If I have read through all the posts correctly, then Z is sage's SO, not the secondary. And W is the secondary, not sage's SO. Did I get that right, Sage?

I know it is difficult not to step in and help their relationship. When DH and J have had difficulties communicating, it has been very hard not to do what I can, for several reasons. It was going above and beyond in a situation that was already painful, and not what I was wanting. But I would rather do it than see either of them in pain.

But more importantly, it was none of my business. This was their relationship. It was more about letting them work out their own problems than it was the going above and beyond part. I didn't want either of them to feel I was taking sides, so I just let myself be there if either of them needed to vent or talk, and then I would go on my way. That should be enough.

As for reaching out to W, you can offer yourself as someone to talk to. But you can't push it, especially if you are not ready. You need to be honest about how you feel about her. If you are having trouble accepting her, that is fine, but let her know in an open and mature way.

It is hard to accept the other woman. It is something you don't want to do, but as long as she is willing to work with you, take things at your pace, and not push you, then she is a good find. If you feel she is attacking your relationship with Z, or pushing you further than you are ready to go, or saying hurtful things to or about you, then there is something wrong. It could be anyone's fault. But it is about owning your own feelings. Knowing who you are, and feeling confident in your place is essential, and it sounds like you have that.

Have the two of you, being the women in your man's life, ever sat down and talked? Whether it be about the relationships, or just to hang out, it might help.

Let me know what else I can do for you.
 
Thanks, Ak, for such kind and wise advice

Yes, you're right. Z is the love of my life. (Sorry, but there are very few other places I can be truly honest about the extent of my feelings for him. Sad to say, most people around me have pretty average relationships, at best, and waxing lyrical makes them want to throw up.) W is his secondary.

Yes, you're right about not helping their issues, but Z and W don't actually have any issues yet, because they haven't got close enough. Z is telling me that I need to give W permission to move further into their relationship. If I do that, then I'd definitely be happy to back off after that and let them sort themselves out.

W is a good one. She's a lovely person, but I don't feel love for her the way you do for J. Maybe that will come. At the moment, she is still very guarded. Z says she's a very private person, which is the total opposite of me. You can probably tell from my postings that I let it all hang out. And W tends to be one way with me (or when I'm around) and another with him, which I don't find very honest.

But I guess MG is right. If I am truly accepting of Z's poly nature, then I should give my blessing. It is very comforting to know that I have friends, even if you are on the other side of the world, who understand and can be supportive.

Sage
 
sage said:
Yes, you're right about not helping their issues, but Z and W don't actually have any issues yet because they haven't got close enough. Z is telling me that I need to give W permission to move further into their relationship. If I do that, then I'd definitely be happy to back off after that and let them sort themselves out.
Click to expand...

This here is actually a good thing. W is showing respect to your position in an already-established relationship. She wants to give you your space to accept what is happening, and give you the time you need. I am not saying take forever doing that. But they know this is painful for you. This respect and lack of pushiness is the foundation of a good relationship for you and W.

sage said:
W is a good one. She's a lovely person, but I don't feel love for her in the way you do with J. Maybe that will come. At the moment, she is still very guarded. Z says she's a very private person, which is the total opposite of me. You can probably tell from my postings that I let it all hang out. W tends to be one way with me (or when I'm around) and another with him, which I don't find very honest.
Click to expand...

How I feel for J-- it took a very long time to come to that point. I promise it was not always so loving and wonderful. I had points of hate and resentment towards her. But from the sound of W, she is not far from who J is. She is giving you your space and time and waiting for you before taking the go ahead. That is alot of what J did. Well, DH and J did this after I found out about them. J was actually about ten times more patient with me than DH.

J is very private, as well. She lurks around here on the boards reading, but she doesn't post a whole heck of a lot, although she knows she is more than welcome to, and I don't have a problem with it.

She and I come from hours and hours of talking, getting together, DH working with us. It wasn't all roses from the get go. There was a lot of pain and anger. But she was very patient. She understood that this was probably the hardest thing for me. She never made me feel as though I were losing my place as the wife. She always reminded me she was the one coming into an already-established marriage, and would give me anything I needed to make me feel comfortable. And this is where we are now, a lot of work later. Things will never be perfect. But things are very wonderful, at the moment.

sage said:
But I guess MG is right. If I am truly accepting of Z's poly nature then I should give my blessing. It is very comforting to know that I have friends, even if you are on the other side of the world, who understand and can be supportive.
Click to expand...

It's not so much about giving your blessing. You are not going to want to do that right off. It's about working together with these other people in your life. The blessing will come once you are comfortable. The acceptance will come. It is not an overnight thing for us monos who did not expect this. It can take months or years.

It's about taking the next leap, working through that step for a couple of weeks, and then taking the next one. You tell your SO, "Hey, I feel good now. Why don't we try you doing this and see how I feel?"

And it is about constantly talking. DH and I just had one of those talks last night. Yes, they need your blessing, but they also need you. You are essential to this. I have always found "accepting" to be an interesting way of putting it. It's learning to find a new way to live your life, if this is what you want. If you have to walk away, you are no less of a person. You have to do what is right for you. That doesn't mean you haven't "accepted" this, or not given your blessing. It simply means that you have a different idea of how you want to live.

But if you stay together and learn to be happy, then your life will be rich and you will have added someone new and special to it, as long as she continues to treat you with respect and consideration. Once there is a rift there, it is time to re evaluate and make sure she is still good for your relationship.

Take your time, and don't push yourself further than you are ready. It sounds like W is going along with these thoughts, as well, since she is waiting for your go-ahead. Keep us updated!
 
Well, I did it. I emailed W and told her that I now feel that I am able to have the kind of relationship I want with Z without needing the boundaries around her relationship with him that I originally set. (I didn't say it quite like that, but you get the picture.)

It took her a couple of days, but she got back in touch with Z and told him that she couldn't take their relationship any further, as it would "ruin her equilibrium." This was one of my fears, as I think while he saw me as the only thing limiting their relationship, he had hope for more with her. But at least she's finally put her cards on the table. Z seems fine about it, at the moment. He has been fine before, but it doesn't seem to last.

Personally, I have difficulty understanding how, if you love someone, you would keep playing with them. She is an intelligent woman. He is a very sexual man, and she knows this, so why would she offer him naked massages, cuddle him in her bed and sunbathe naked with him? Surely she can see that she is upsetting his equilibrium?

Sage
 
ak2381 said:
MG, if I have read through all the posts correctly, then Z is sage's SO, not the secondary. And W is the secondary, not sage's SO. Did I get that right, sage?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. I hope it didn't confuse the point I was making.


sage said:
Well, I did it. I emailed W and told her that I now feel that I am able to have the kind of relationship I want with Z without needing the boundaries around her relationship with him that I originally set. (I didn't say it quite like that, but you get the picture.)

It took her a couple of days, but she got back in touch with Z and told him that she couldn't take their relationship any further, as it would "ruin her equilibrium." This was one of my fears, as I think while he saw me as the only thing limiting their relationship, he had hope for more with her. But at least she's finally put her cards on the table. Z seems fine about it at the moment. He has been fine before, but it doesn't seem to last.

Personally, I have difficulty understanding how if you love someone, you would keep playing with them. She is an intelligent woman. He is a very sexual man, and she knows this, so why would she offer him naked massages, cuddle him in her bed and sunbathe naked with him? Surely she can see that she is upsetting his equilibrium?
Click to expand...

Jeez! This must be frustrating! Kind of sort of sounds sort of like Mohegan's situation. Not really understanding the vagueness and passivity-- the "playing," as you say.

Maybe she needed the boundaries too, and wasn't ready to make the jump into entering a poly relationship. I understand you are questioning her intentions with him, and are concerned for his feelings being hurt by this kind of rejection.

Anyway, how are the two of you (you and Z) doing with each other since the lifting of the original boundaries? Are you feeling insecure or more settled?
 
Morningglory629 said:
Jeez! This must be frustrating! Kind of sort of sounds sort of like Mohegan's situation. Not really understanding the vagueness and passivity- the "playing," as you say.
Click to expand...

You're right, it really does sound like my situation, in some ways.

Sage, what has really helped us is talking. We seem to be having a deep conversation about something every night, either individual realizations, issues to work out, things we need help with, answers to earlier questions, or just filling each other in on the day and how we felt about it.

It's been really helpful. Last night, for example, while writing my blog on here, I was finally able to realize my issues with them sleeping together. He and I talked about it, and I was able to say, "I know there isn't a lot of validation for it, but this is what I'm feeling," and it led to a lot of talking, reaffirmation, and moving forward.

Another thing that was helpful, and I know it is controversial on here, but a few days ago we set up a list of rules. Some are for us and how we communicate issues with our secondaries, and some were for what we expect out of relationships in general. It was nice. It was something I didn't think we needed, but at the insistence of a friend we gave it a try and I feel a lot better now.

As for her "games," that is where we are similar. I feel my DH's gf is young and unsure of what she wants currently. Nothing wrong with that, she's 19. But her confusion/experimentation comes across as someone just looking for attention, not someone invested in the same way as DH is. But the 3 of us are learning together.

It's discussed often here, but my best advice is to communicate. When I started expressing the things I thought would upset him, or hadn't really figured out myself, but was at least able to say, "Hey, here's where my head is at the moment," I was pleasantly surprised to find he was more than willing to help me work through things and give me the answers I was seeking. We've had some hard talks, saying things that we knew would be hard for the other to hear, but needed to be said. We've made the most progress when we've been able to do that.

Best of luck to you!
 
Morningglory629 said:
Anyway, how are you and Z doing since the lifting of the original boundaries? Are you feeling insecure or more settled?
Click to expand...

We are doing really well. I've come to see this whole experience as actively growing our love.

As far as W is concerned, I am still a bit "unresolved." I can't think of another way to describe it. I'm going to read Mohegan's story. Maybe that will give me some clarity. Off the top of my head, it's like their relationship is giving them each what they need, but those needs are different. I understand what Z's needs are, but I am very much at a loss about W. Maybe I need to find out, but we are very different people. I am upfront and love to communicate, while I find her very private and guarded. When we get together I find it quite bizarre; she befriends me as if Z were almost non-existent. I have to be the one to keep encouraging her to be close with us, or even him.

I email her my feelings because the written word is my preferred method of communication, and she totally ignores me, but goes to Z, because she thinks I should call her and arrange a time to talk with her. I find talking about emotional things really difficult, because I usually end up talking through my tears.

In many ways we are still at a stalemate.

Tears,
Sage
 
Where do you guys find the time?

This is not a glib question. It is totally genuine. Most mono couples find it hard to find quality time for one relationship, on top of work and family commitments. I am really interested in how you polys manage multiple relationships.

It's not just the physical time you're with someone. That seems to be just the tip of the iceberg. There's all the emotional/relationship stuff that gets thrown up as a result of the physical time together.

For the sake of my relationship with Z, I'm going to have to start putting time into my relationship with W. Things are getting a bit awkward there. Imagine if I had someone else. It would definitely impinge on our primary relationship, because our quality time together would be so limited. I work long hours and he has his kids here every other weekend and school holidays. Z won't have any poly activity when his kids are here, as he thinks his ex would stop them coming because of his dubious lifestyle.

Maybe it's more difficult coming to this kind of lifestyle in your forties when your lives are already constructed?

Thoughts, please.
 
sage said:
This is not a glib question it is totally genuine. Most mono couples find it hard to find quality time for one relationship on top of work and family commitments. I am really interested in how you polys manage multiple relationships?
Click to expand...

Google Calendar :D...(poly humour there btw)

Honestly I think its about ensuring the time you DO spend is quality. Couples if they actually look at the time they spend together quickly realize a lot of it is fluff. It really holds little meaning and actually dilutes the time they do have. Instead of having great times all the time, you just have time together.

Managing time and having time apart, can make the time you do spend more enriching. Better quality and less filler talk. At least thats what I found when we were dating. I would have date, she would have a date, all three of us would have a date...then it would be my wife and I and we found we missed each other and it became quality time.
 
Thanks, Ariakis.

Franklin's work on Xeromag was also useful. I really like the idea idea that time with others is often incorporated with the three of us, especially in the beginning. I was looking at time more often being split away as a twosome. And as our relationship is only a couple of years old, we have his kids every other weekend, and he is my favorite person to spend time with, it's been an ongoing problem for me.

Mohegan asked why I'd rather Z keep his relationship with W than have someone closer. Time is the main reason. She lives away and so impacts our time less.

Anyway, I am making a concerted effort to reach out to her so that she will be comfortable enough to come and spend time with us in August. (This will save him wanting to go up there until I can have time off work in October.) And yes, I'm using Google calendar to make sure things don't fall on "kid weekends."

Oh, Morning Glory, if you're reading this, I "came out" (with positiveness and even enthusiasm) to my sister yesterday. She was a bit perplexed; she's not in "relationship space" at the moment. She's a ballet mom and would rather sit around watching girls in leotards prance endlessly across sprung floors. To each her own. But she was interested and accepting, and that was the main thing to me.
 
Begining to Feel Compersion !!

Well, it seems my quest to "figure this all out" is moving ahead well. We had one of our blissful just-us-2 two weekends. Z read something that really clicked with him and he has finally fully accepted himself as poly. He has decided that he wants to meet some women in our area to build relationships with. Even just a few weeks ago, this would have filled me with dread, but yesterday morning as he was surfing around different online sites, I felt a deep sense of satisfaction that I could enable the man I love to fully explore who he is.

This is a small place, but we have found a triad not too far away that we are going to get together with to check out the poly scene around here.

Smiles
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top